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computer parts posted:You're the one that made the assertion, generally you do the research. You asserted that background checks weren't performed on Uber drivers, and that they don't even check that they have driver licenses. Here's a primary source for you: me! They checked me for both, in fact, I can pull my LexisNexis profile and see that they did check it. If you're going to assert otherwise, back it up.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:38
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Radbot posted:This is just bullshit, honestly. You can find people who evade Top Secret background checks, it doesn't mean that checks aren't performed or that they don't catch the majority of people that shouldn't get clearance. Why worry about anything? Just open the floodgates and let the free market sort it all out. :somalia:
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Jul 24, 2014 17:39
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Trabisnikof posted:See here's the difference: those topics are ways that laws are applied to flesh and blood human beings while this thread is discussing a social construct that has limited legal liability and billions of dollars. As opposed to the existing taxi monopolies, which also have limited liability and a collective tens of billions of dollars while providing worse service at a higher price? Like, since when are taxis and the regulations thereof about protecting the common goon from the oligarchy of 21st century jitneys?
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Jul 24, 2014 17:39
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Adar posted:As opposed to the existing taxi monopolies, which also have limited liability and a collective tens of billions of dollars while providing worse service at a higher price? I am 100% in favor of Taxi companies obeying all laws and regulations.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:40
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Trabisnikof posted:Uber has a valuation of $17 Billion dollars. As this excellent post that someone linked lays out (http://quora.com/Uber-1/How-big-of-a-deal-is-Uber/answer/Justin-Singer) the "big taxi" companies all control small segments of the market. Uber has the resources. Sure, maybe they'll be some cities where the mob runs the taxis and the city council or some poo poo. Or California where the regulators make rules, and everyone hates them but that's California and that's the law. But in the vast majority of the country Uber has everything they need to shift regulations in their favor. Everyone hates taxis. We're reading that differently. Uber has a lot of resources, but I think the fragmentation of the taxi industry is actually a problem for Uber, because those companies are more likely to have a long history in local politics and thus the governments will be hesitant to enact changes that could lead directly to the demise of local businesses. Not "everyone" hates taxis... just the people who use them. And that's Uber's strategy. Citizen Tayne posted:I'm particularly interested in why taximeters aren't necessary. I don't know how to respond to this. Have you ever used Uber? Do you... know what it is? You're a terrible poster, take a hint from Trabisnikof.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:40
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Citizen Tayne posted:Why worry about anything? Just open the floodgates and let the free market sort it all out. :somalia: Thanks for the irrelevant shitpost I guess
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Jul 24, 2014 17:44
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Adar posted:As opposed to the existing taxi monopolies, which also have limited liability and a collective tens of billions of dollars while providing worse service at a higher price? Yes, but no one has called them disruptive, so they must be better! (this is literally how people think)
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Jul 24, 2014 17:44
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Radbot posted:You asserted that background checks weren't performed on Uber drivers, and that they don't even check that they have driver licenses. Here's a primary source for you: me! They checked me for both, in fact, I can pull my LexisNexis profile and see that they did check it. I said that Uber didn't want the same background checks as cab companies for ~~reasons~~ and it turns out that's completely true: quote:Drivers, though, will not be required to undergo the same criminal background checks that taxi drivers face, an area of concern for Hickenlooper. Taxi drivers are subject to fingerprint background checks performed by the Federal and Colorado Bureaus of Investigation, while ride-sharing drivers will remain vetted by private companies that use publicly available data.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:45
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Trabisnikof posted:I am 100% in favor of Taxi companies obeying all laws and regulations. The regulations governing cabs are 19th century relics that evolved over time in order for everyone involved to make a higher profit off the passenger. If this were not true a medallion would not sell for a million dollars, because it does not take a million dollars to run a cab. No really, think about the implications of a taxi license selling for a million dollars and then tell me that this is an industry that should be protected because it operates in the best interest of the consumer.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:45
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disheveled posted:I don't know how to respond to this. Have you ever used Uber? Do you... know what it is? You're a terrible poster, take a hint from Trabisnikof. Are you aware that measuring devices used in commerce are generally calibrated to a standard and certified to that standard at least once a year? Are you aware of why this is necessary? I'm going to assume you have no credentials and you're talking out your rear end. Everyone has an opinion, but not everyone has an opinion worth considering.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:46
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Trabisnikof posted:I am 100% in favor of Taxi companies obeying all laws and regulations. But just to be clear you're not in favor of companies/agencies/people obeying laws you don't like right? And are completely hypocritical on the general point of whether "the law" is an actual justification for an action or outcome right? Or perhaps you have a more "nuanced" distinction regarding the relative amounts of flesh and blood or company valuation in dollars that you'd like to articulate.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:47
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Citizen Tayne posted:You didn't answer my question. They're necessary because taxis are 19th century relics arising in the days when people couldn't just get a smartphone quote of a fare ahead of time and actually had to monitor which way they were going for fear of being taken the wrong way on purpose. Fortunately we live in an oligarch jitney-filled world where if you have a phone you don't really have to give a poo poo.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:49
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Radbot posted:You asserted that background checks weren't performed on Uber drivers, and that they don't even check that they have driver licenses. Here's a primary source for you: me! They checked me for both, in fact, I can pull my LexisNexis profile and see that they did check it. I think his issue is that the check is extremely easy to avoid with UberX. Since you drove for uber, could you C/D this quote? quote:[Uber's] background check is done through a third party called Hirease. It consists of filling out your name, address, DL & SSN online. That's it. Every taxi company I worked for required drug screening and livescan fingerprinting at the local police department before being issued a taxi driver permit. http://valleywag.gawker.com/uber-driver-heres-how-we-get-around-background-checks-1596982249
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Jul 24, 2014 17:49
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Next time you go to pump gas, have a look at the certification deal on the pump that was placed there by the authority in charge of verifying weights and measures. Ask yourself why that's there, and why a Taximeter also has one. Check the back of your cell phone for one, and tell me what this says about your cel phone versus a Taximeter.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:50
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disheveled posted:We're reading that differently. Uber has a lot of resources, but I think the fragmentation of the taxi industry is actually a problem for Uber, because those companies are more likely to have a long history in local politics and thus the governments will be hesitant to enact changes that could lead directly to the demise of local businesses. Not "everyone" hates taxis... just the people who use them. And that's Uber's strategy. I just haven't actually seen much evidence of cab companies' local power beyond cab companies calling the cops on uber or testifying at meetings. Meetings that Uber isn't attending, through choice sometimes and through ignorance other times too. That's a big part of the challenge of running a nationwide transit company, there are lots of regulators to keep tabs on. Uber also knows what communities they want to expand into and I'm just surprised they're not laying the groundwork ahead of time. That might slow their pace; and growth is the most important metric for young companies these days. It might be worth their while to pay fines now so their growth curve looks good.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:52
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Adar posted:They're necessary because taxis are 19th century relics arising in the days when people couldn't just get a smartphone quote of a fare ahead of time and actually had to monitor which way they were going for fear of being taken the wrong way on purpose. Fortunately we live in an oligarch jitney-filled world where if you have a phone you don't really have to give a poo poo. They're necessary because having an independent third party verify that a unit of measure used to calculate a price or value is advantageous to all parties in commerce. If only one party controls the accuracy of the method used to measure a cash value, everyone else is going to get hosed over eventually.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:52
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Citizen Tayne posted:Next time you go to pump gas, have a look at the certification deal on the pump that was placed there by the authority in charge of verifying weights and measures. Ask yourself why that's there, and why a Taximeter also has one. If my phone could teleport gas into my tank at an agreed upon price ahead of time you'd better believe the common gas attendant would also be in trouble.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:52
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Citizen Tayne posted:Next time you go to pump gas, have a look at the certification deal on the pump that was placed there by the authority in charge of verifying weights and measures. Ask yourself why that's there, and why a Taximeter also has one. GPS is the most accurate measuring tool in existence, and Uber would never dare manipulate the quoted distance. They're a very trustworthy company.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:55
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asdf32 posted:But just to be clear you're not in favor of companies/agencies/people obeying laws you don't like right? And are completely hypocritical on the general point of whether "the law" is an actual justification for an action or outcome right? Once again, I believe in civil disobedience by humans but not by social constructs. So no, I can't think of a single law that I think companies should violate. I don't like blue laws, but I'm not cheering the car dealer to open on Sunday.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:55
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Out of curiosity, does Uber's insurance cover a passenger in the event of an accident caused by another driver that's uninsured? And does a typical taxicab have insurance to cover said event as well? I've always assumed the latter is true but I'm not as sure now.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:55
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Can someone explain to me why we need so much regulation for transportation services in the first place? We don't have these regulations for regular drivers who drop people off as a favor, so what is it about getting paid to do it that suddenly calls for all of this? I get that there's some increased insurance liability involved, but assuming Uber/Lyft have that covered (I guess that's up for debate?), why all the extra stuff? It's a genuine question and sorry if it sounds stupid.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:57
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computer parts posted:I said that Uber didn't want the same background checks as cab companies for ~~reasons~~ and it turns out that's completely true: That's true, they don't get fingerprinted. Transit bus drivers in Colorado don't need to be fingerprinted either. Are you afraid of transit bus drivers?
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Jul 24, 2014 17:58
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Radbot posted:That's true, they don't get fingerprinted. Transit bus drivers in Colorado don't need to be fingerprinted either. Are you afraid of transit bus drivers? Hmm, it's almost as though there's a difference between them.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:59
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Citizen Tayne posted:They're necessary because having an independent third party verify that a unit of measure used to calculate a price or value is advantageous to all parties in commerce. If only one party controls the accuracy of the method used to measure a cash value, everyone else is going to get hosed over eventually. Nah, not at all. You get a map of exactly where your Uber traveled after every trip, so you can verify the distance yourself. If you have an issue you can then request a fare review. If you're extra concerned, you can start a GPS tripometer on your phone too and ensure it matches with what you're charged for. There are so many valid complaints about Uber and nobody's talking about any of them. computer parts posted:Hmm, it's almost as though there's a difference between them. One is driving a car, the other is driving a massive vehicle and is repsonsible for possibly 50x as many lives. Yes, there is a difference, though I'm not sure what you're getting at.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:00
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Trabisnikof posted:Once again, I believe in civil disobedience by humans but not by social constructs. So no, I can't think of a single law that I think companies should violate. I don't like blue laws, but I'm not cheering the car dealer to open on Sunday. A law saying a dealer can't be open on Sunday is a law saying that an individual can't buy a car on Sunday. The distinction you're making isn't as clear as you are making out (particularly when you consider drug laws). Or, for that matter, a law saying that businesses can't serve certain people. Laws can be directed a business, but that doesn't mean that aren't obvious effects effects on the people who purchase things. Incidentally, the dealer has no reason to protest that particular law, because if uniformly applied it saves money on costs.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:01
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Radbot posted:
One is driving a set route that can be easily verified and one has the ability to drive you anywhere and sexually assault you. quote:There are so many valid complaints about Uber and nobody's talking about any of them. Because you're literally acting like a libertarian does about anything to do with government. "Oh, if there was an issue Uber or someone would just be in court! The fact that they're not shows that there's nothing wrong." 
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Jul 24, 2014 18:03
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Lolcano Eruption posted:Yes, but if an Uber driver sustains damage to his own vehicle as a result of an at-fault accident, he can feasibly sue the rider, the person whom hired the driver in the first place, couldn't he? Independent contractors using their own equipment, I doubt they'd be successful sueing anyone except whoever is at fault for accident.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:04
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computer parts posted:One is driving a set route that can be easily verified and one has the ability to drive you anywhere and sexually assault you. I guess we're sure lucky that Uber does background checks, then. quote:Because you're literally acting like a libertarian does about anything to do with government. I'm not sure what you're blathering on about, I haven't said anything about court. I think the far more interesting issue is how Uber treats its drivers, rather than a bunch of bullshit about how GPS is less accurate than a taximeter.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:05
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Out of curiosity, why do we even care if ex-cons can drive cars for a living?computer parts posted:One is driving a set route that can be easily verified and one has the ability to drive you anywhere and sexually assault you. Prison thread: "why will no one hire ex-felons after their sentence has been completed?" ITT: "oh gently caress my driver could possibly have been to prison, ban all competition to taxis" *is picked up by immigrant whose American background check is largely useless*
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Jul 24, 2014 18:06
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Radbot posted:Nah, not at all. You get a map of exactly where your Uber traveled after every trip, so you can verify the distance yourself. If you have an issue you can then request a fare review. If you're extra concerned, you can start a GPS tripometer on your phone too and ensure it matches with what you're charged for. This really sounds a lot easier for the customer than just having a taximeter that is calibrated and certified and tells you exactly how far you went. Push the responsibility for verifying that you were charged properly to the customer. Push the responsibility for the car, for repairs, for taxes, and for liability to your $12/hr driver. What a great, "disruptive" company!
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Jul 24, 2014 18:06
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Phone gps hardware is too inaccurate, especially in city environments, to be relied upon as a basis for commercial billing. It is "good enough" to roughly get your location but anyone who has compared phone gps tracked distance with a different measurement system will tell you that's about the only guarantee. That is the reason why trucking companies put built in gps systems with large roof mounted antennas on their vehicles to track distance and speed or a surveyor uses a gps receiver with a five figure price tag instead of just walking around with a phone.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:07
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Citizen Tayne posted:This really sounds a lot easier for the customer than just having a taximeter that is calibrated and certified and tells you exactly how far you went. Personally I'd rather have the ability to independently verify the route and its length myself rather than relying on a sticker that may or may not indicate that the device was properly inspected. Completely agreed with you on the driver aspect though. It's a poo poo job for the X drivers. Shifty Pony posted:Phone gps hardware is too inaccurate, especially in city environments, to be relied upon as a basis for commercial billing. It is "good enough" to roughly get your location but anyone who has compared phone gps tracked distance with a different measurement system will tell you that's about the only guarantee. The antenna is also a satellite transponder, for when the truck leaves cellphone range. That's the primary reason for its size - surveyor GPS antennas are smaller and much more accurate. This also ignores that GPS can be about 99% accurate or more for routes when the data is overlaid onto map data. Sure, the GPS might show you cut a corner, but "snap" it to map data and it becomes very, very accurate.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:07
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Radbot posted:Personally I'd rather have the ability to independently verify the route and its length myself rather than relying on a sticker that may or may not indicate that the device was properly inspected. But you don't have the tools to do that. Phone GPS isn't that accurate in a lot of places. Do you also personally check that the gas station isn't screwing you?
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Jul 24, 2014 18:07
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Adar posted:If my phone could teleport gas into my tank at an agreed upon price ahead of time you'd better believe the common gas attendant would also be in trouble. I was under the impression uber didn't actually finalize the fare till you arrived, that it could only give a fare estimate in advance. And I guess you're fine with the code for measuring distance traveled isn't verified as accurate or anything. It's not like uber could do anything sneaky like increase quoted distance by 1.01 across all rides, or increase it by 1.1 on 10% of rides.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:08
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Radbot posted:Personally I'd rather have the ability to independently verify the route and its length myself rather than relying on a sticker that may or may not indicate that the device was properly inspected. I, too, trust in my ability to independently verify that I was charged properly with my bargain basement commodity equipment instead of just using professional certified gear. Your post is incredibly silly.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:09
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Trabisnikof posted:But you don't have the tools to do that. Phone GPS isn't that accurate in a lot of places. No, my time isn't worth it. But I could easily check if I wanted to, much more easily than I could check whether a taximeter is properly calibrated. Citizen Tayne posted:I, too, trust in my ability to independently verify that I was charged properly with my bargain basement commodity equipment instead of just using professional certified gear. Meh, it's actually super accurate when you upload your tracks into software like Google Earth which can then "snap" your coordinates into a route along marked roads. Give it a try maybe? You're right though that raw GPS data from a phone or watch isn't great.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:09
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Trabisnikof posted:But you don't have the tools to do that. Phone GPS isn't that accurate in a lot of places. I've never actually had it be wrong compared to the route I took. I guess uber could be billing extra per mile without telling you, but that'd be a huge liability and is very unlikely. At least now I can get a refund when I know driver took unnecessarily long route.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:10
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Radbot posted:I guess we're sure lucky that Uber does background checks, then. And yet they don't want to do the actual standardized background check because  quote:I'm not sure what you're blathering on about, I haven't said anything about court. I think the far more interesting issue is how Uber treats its drivers, rather than a bunch of bullshit about how GPS is less accurate than a taximeter. Adar posted:Out of curiosity, why do we even care if ex-cons can drive cars for a living? I think a woman would have a bit of an issue with getting in an unmarked car with a person convicted of sexual assault.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:11
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Radbot posted:No, my time isn't worth it. But I could easily check if I wanted to, much more easily than I could check whether a taximeter is properly calibrated. If you seriously consider yourself more competent at verifying weights and measures than an authority established solely for that purpose, staffed with experts, than you have bigger issues to work through than the legality of Uber.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:11
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Citizen Tayne posted:If you seriously consider yourself more competent at verifying weights and measures than an authority established solely for that purpose, staffed with experts, than you have bigger issues to work through than the legality of Uber. Have you ever seen how this is checked? Inspectors carry around a vial, fill the vial to a marked line, and then check that against the display. It's not that complicated, though you're right that I'm not staffed solely for that purpose.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:12
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