|
A Buttery Pastry posted:What does "up there" mean? It's a Dutch tradition, not Scandinavian. It's a germanic tradition.
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 16:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 13:44 |
|
|
Nyarlothotep posted:It's a germanic tradition.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 16:16
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:I thought the blackface servants were specifically Dutch? Even if the tradition has its origin in an older German tradition. I'm pretty sure at least it's not a pan-Germanic tradition though, haven't heard of similar traditions in the UK or Scandinavia. During last year's annual racist Christmas thread there were some pictures posted of Germans and Swiss dressed up in blackface, at least. According to wikipedia in Scandinavia the tradition evolved into using elves, or 'tomten'.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 16:23
|
|
|
Nyarlothotep posted:During last year's annual racist Christmas thread there were some pictures posted of Germans and Swiss dressed up in blackface, at least. Nyarlothotep posted:According to wikipedia in Scandinavia the tradition evolved into using elves, or 'tomten'.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 16:39
|
|
|
blackface has never been a thing up here, i'm pretty sure this, by the way, is why continental europeans don't take anglo-american criticism of our nationalism very seriously - y'all are insanely ignorant of local conditions and you still feel like you're qualified to comment
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 16:49
|
|
|
I didn't mean to imply that scandinavians used blackface, just that most of these modern celebrations date back to pre-christian myths - figures like zwarte piet, the german Krampus and the elves in scandinavian folklore all stem from the same source.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 16:55
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:blackface has never been a thing up here, i'm pretty sure Can you provide examples of the 'nationalism' being unfairly insulted? Like, does it have a different meaning over there because when I think Scandinavian nationalism I think those parties who run basically on "Hey those fuckin Africans want to rape and murder white people AS IS THEIR WAY so we should kick everyone darker than snow out, am I right?!" or the people who flood comments on news sites that say, talk about how there was a troubling event where some protesters in one of those countries had some pretty antisemitic poo poo as their 'cause' 'well no those aren't real Swedes just dirty immigrants, real Swedes would never be hateful unlike those filthy mud people'. So like, what's the good nationalism that gets critiqued in that process?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:01
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:blackface has never been a thing up here, i'm pretty sure Using the phrase 'anglo-American' while talking about ignorance of nationalism is kind of weird. What the hell is 'anglo-american'?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:03
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:Using the phrase 'anglo-American' while talking about ignorance of nationalism is kind of weird. What the hell is 'anglo-american'? Not sure but it's definitely not lumping people from the UK and Americans together into one homogeneous hate group
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:04
|
|
|
If there is a terrorist attack here its not gonna be loving announced on the news.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:07
|
|
|
In Sweden they do Finnface minstrel shows where the Finnface actors stumble around stabbing each other between swigs of vodka and wails of impotent rage. It's their blackface. This is 100% true.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:10
|
|
|
ReindeerF posted:In Sweden they do Finnface minstrel shows where the Finnface actors stumble around stabbing each other between swigs of vodka and wails of impotent rage. It's their blackface. This is 100% true. I can confirm this. As a person of mixed Finnish and Swedish descent I am a second class citizen at best, constantly the butt of their jokes and my life is basically a living nightmare.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:15
|
|
|
RACIST anti-Finnitism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAl9OyGYxOg
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
Benito Hitlerstalin posted:I can confirm this. As a person of mixed Finnish and Swedish descent I am a From my time in Scandinavia I can't even begin to scratch the surface of the attitudes the various Scandinavian groups have towards each other, except the Swedes and Norwegians both seem to interpret each other as dumber versions of themselves.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
The Norwegians interpret the Swedes as their migrant labor these days  Must be entertaining given historical precedent, heh.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:19
|
|
|
ReindeerF posted:The Norwegians interpret the Swedes as their migrant labor these days Yeah Danes are flocking up there in droves too. Oh how the tables have turned.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:31
|
|
|
Anosmoman posted:Yeah Danes are flocking up there in droves too. Oh how the tables have turned. We are making them peel our bananas: 
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:35
|
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:Can you provide examples of the 'nationalism' being unfairly insulted? Like, does it have a different meaning over there because when I think Scandinavian nationalism I think those parties who run basically on "Hey those fuckin Africans want to rape and murder white people AS IS THEIR WAY so we should kick everyone darker than snow out, am I right?!" or the people who flood comments on news sites that say, talk about how there was a troubling event where some protesters in one of those countries had some pretty antisemitic poo poo as their 'cause' 'well no those aren't real Swedes just dirty immigrants, real Swedes would never be hateful unlike those filthy mud people'. yeah nobody cares about africans this is why you are dumb it's not so much that it's "good" nationalism that gets criticised, it's that the criticism is invariably completely uniformed and embarrassing
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:36
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:yeah nobody cares about africans this is why you are dumb Like using the phrase 'anglo-american'?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:41
|
|
|
English speaking
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:41
|
|
|
Benito Hitlerstalin posted:English speaking Botswana?
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:42
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:Botswana? I figure this is why he used another term also I'm pretty sure this thread belongs in GBS because it's really dumb
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:43
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:Using the phrase 'anglo-American' while talking about ignorance of nationalism is kind of weird. What the hell is 'anglo-american'? Note, this lumping together is not equivalent of what I'm accusing Brits and Americans of doing. America's position as leader of a unipolar world, and its massive cultural output and influence, means it's isolated to some degree from foreign cultures. Britain sorta piggybacks off that, since it shares its language with the US, and thus hasn't really had to reevaluate its own position vis-à-vis Europe. This doesn't mean everyone else is immune to making stupid criticism, but being outside the Anglosphere helps makes you more aware of the existence of cultural differences since we're constantly being bombarded with outside cultural influence. Even more so in smaller countries, as bigger countries can insulate themselves to some degree with their own cultural output.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:43
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:When it comes to critiquing Europe, I think it's fairly justified to lump America and Britain together. The British view of "the Continent" and the American view of "Europe" has a lot of similarities, both essentially treating Europe as an equally unified entity which they can compare themselves to, rather than 40+ states of varying sizes and cultural similarities. I think Americans, in general, have a far greater ignorance about Europe than Britons do, which would, y'know, make sense. I completely agree that most American criticism of Europeans is just looney-tunes and based on tattered remnants of stereotypes gleaned from random sources, and that especially on the racism front there's a lot of mutual misunderstanding between Europeans and Americans. Though sadly now we're sharing a lot of anti-Muslim rah-rah-white-people stuff. Also, Europeans tend to pretty much only think of Americans as white when they stereotype them, and as English-speaking. I also do think we are now totally derailed and I apologize for my part in that. Edit: Oh, and Americans tend to think of Britons as "European", too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:48
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:When it comes to critiquing Europe, I think it's fairly justified to lump America and Britain together. The British view of "the Continent" and the American view of "Europe" has a lot of similarities, both essentially treating Europe as an equally unified entity which they can compare themselves to, rather than 40+ states of varying sizes and cultural similarities. I don't know any British people who treat "Europe" as a single entity. the UK has got too much and too varied history dispersed between each of our neighboring countries to ignore them each having unique identities. Brits talk about the EU because there's a lot of political tension between it and the UK, but that's not the same thing. So lumping that with the general "EUROPE" thing that you think the US does I don't think is fair ( an informed US citizen could say similar things about their own country to what I've just said about the UK). Also re-evaluation of the position with europe has been one of the driving political tensions in this country basically since the EEC so that's just horseshit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:48
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:Note, this lumping together is not equivalent of what I'm accusing Brits and Americans of doing. I'm glad you pointed this out because it sounded like that's exactly what you did so I must have misread.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:48
|
|
|
Nyarlothotep posted:During last year's annual racist Christmas thread there were some pictures posted of Germans and Swiss dressed up in blackface, at least. According to wikipedia in Scandinavia the tradition evolved into using elves, or 'tomten'. Care to provide a link or tell which region of Swiss/Germany that was in? Because I've never heard of a Swartze Piet character in German Christmas foklore. (Or does painting the whole face black for Knecht Ruprecht, who not have the "Moorish servant" aspect, count as blackface?)
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:52
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:It's funny, because the closest thing they've come to Islamic terrorism is the Israelis killing some random Muslim guy they thought was a Hamas operative or something, and of course Breivik trying to convince everyone to rise up against the Muslims by killing Norwegian kids. There were these guys who shot at the synagogue in Oslo some years back though. Also those guys, Michael Davud and David Jacobsen or whatever who were arrested as they were planning an attack, though most of the suspects thought they were gonna attack a Danish cartoonist or something while their main guy actually intended to attack the Chinese embassy and basically never told the other guys, thinking that he could probably trick them into doing that instead. All in all I think this was kind of a weird thing, basically the government had only the vaguest hints that someone, maybe from Syria, was planning an attack SOMEWHERE in Norway. So they basically panicked and hoped they would look decisive or some poo poo. Norway is also pretty ill-prepared for any kind of attack, especially since local police forces likely wont be able to to handle it and would have to wait for the special force police guys to arrive form Oslo, and they'd need to get a helicopter or some poo poo first, if someone actually managed to actually carry out an attack outside the capital it'd pretty much be Utøya again if they picked a target that's as vulnerable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:52
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:I think Americans, in general, have a far greater ignorance about Europe than Britons do, which would, y'know, make sense. I completely agree that most American criticism of Europeans is just looney-tunes and based on tattered remnants of stereotypes gleaned from random sources, and that especially on the racism front there's a lot of mutual misunderstanding between Europeans and Americans. Though sadly now we're sharing a lot of anti-Muslim rah-rah-white-people stuff. Yep this also But yeah this whole thing came up because I recounted an anecdote about a Norsk person responding to my "why would anyone threaten Norway" by saying "because islam" which I guess kind of answered my question but not in the way he thought he was answering.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:53
|
|
|
jesus christ burn and  this thread
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:54
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:
I really can't blame them for overreaction after Utøya but it does seem a little Boston-lite-brite in retrospect.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:55
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:Edit: Oh, and Americans tend to think of Britons as "European", too. Excessive smoking, bad teeth, eyes too close together from millenia of inbreeding, fond of dark-colored clothing and pessimism - I challenge you to tell me Britons aren't European based on these characteristics alone! EDIT: A quasi-functional rail system and universal healthcare. Seriously, the stereotypes go on!
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:57
|
|
|
ReindeerF posted:They are! They just have British Exceptionalism (a word no one uses, but should) the same way the Japanese think Japan isn't part of Asia. No, the UK is on the continent of Europe, and everyone accepts this. The distinction comes into play when discussing the EU and the Euro currency.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 17:59
|
|
|
Do people in Europe use "European" as code talk for EU participation? If so, I'd never picked that up. EDIT: Also, the English do not accept that, heh.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 18:00
|
|
|
Quickscope420dad posted:No, the UK is on the continent of Europe, and everyone accepts this. The distinction comes into play when discussing the EU and the Euro currency. Britain is in the EU you know.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 18:01
|
|
|
Obdicut posted:Like using the phrase 'anglo-american'? Shorthand for the we predominantly western anglophone, analytical philosophy-based vulgar postmodernism that informs a lot of discussion in forums like this one. Also includes canadians, australians, kiwis etc. It was a low effort post, though, so I couldn't be arsed to specify this, hoping it would be inferred from context
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 18:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 13:44 |
|
|
Obdicut posted:Edit: Oh, and Americans tend to think of Britons as "European", too. Quickscope420dad posted:I don't know any British people who treat "Europe" as a single entity. the UK has got too much and too varied history dispersed between each of our neighboring countries to ignore them each having unique identities. Brits talk about the EU because there's a lot of political tension between it and the UK, but that's not the same thing. So lumping that with the general "EUROPE" thing that you think the US does I don't think is fair ( an informed US citizen could say similar things about their own country to what I've just said about the UK). Pissflaps posted:I'm glad you pointed this out because it sounded like that's exactly what you did so I must have misread.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2014 18:01
|
|