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Can't believe there's people in this thread who didn't follow the Last Man Standing reviews.
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May 27, 2015 23:42
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ewe2 posted:Ohhh this is that post-modern thing the kids are always talking about. I don't like it. gently caress. I could have quoted the LMS review and said "oh you've redecorated the thread, I don't like it." That would have been a great ref! Oh well, next time.
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May 27, 2015 23:43
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Gaz-L posted:CSI? CSI: Cyber That show really has a far better cast than it deserves.
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May 27, 2015 23:53
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Doctor Who "The Snowmen" Series 7, Episode 6 I don't like Clara. Don't get me wrong - I love Jenna Coleman. She's an adorable tiny little elf woman and her performance is, as was in "Asylum of the Daleks", absolutely stellar. The problem comes down to the writing. Clara as written might be the most poorly initially characterized Companion, which is what, ultimately, kills this episode to me. It sucks because there's a lot of things to like about this episode. Strax, Madame Vestra, and Jenny all reprise their roles from Series Six and they're all still really fun to watch onscreen, especially Strax - whose every line is loving hilarious. Dr. Simeon (Richard E. Grant) is appropriately menacing as the villain and helps sell the unbelievably stupid conceit of the antagonists for this episode being killer snowmen who are being controlled by some sentient, evolving snow or whatever the gently caress that reveal was meant to be. It's still stupid (and the killer snowmen, offensively so), but the fact that the point of contact for the forces of antagonism in "The Snowmen" is Simeon is what makes it more or less work. Grant's performance, while although stereotypical and without much nuance (the reveal in the climax that he's the source of the evil snow's power or whatever because he was ultimately a really lonely child in his youth comes across as forced sympathy for a character that never earned it) still works as the evil old man he's written as and establishes himself as a legitimate threat, methods notwithstanding. As long as we deign to forget that Simeon becomes an ice zombie - and we should, because it was loving stupid as hell - Simeon basically works well enough as the bad guy that he's fun to watch onscreen. Companions are obviously very important to the tonal makeup of Who. They exist to encourage and, ideally, provide a sense of perspective to The Doctor, and their introductions are crucial to the overall enjoyment and textural composition of the show. What's surprising is that most of the revival-era Companions received good introductions, even within bad Who episodes. Martha was painted as a vibrant, interesting character in her first episode on Who, one that I wanted to see more of even if her character was severely hamstrung by an awful forced romance angle just punched into the end of "Smith and Jones" for no reason. Amy got the lights-out "Eleventh Hour", which was not only one of if not the best episode the show has ever done but an incredible Amy story that realized her character immediately. Donna and Rory both got two introductions - "Runaway Bride" and "Partners in Crime" for the former, "Eleventh Hour" and "Vampires of Venice" for the latter. And in both cases, their two introductions were both good and told different aspects of their character, and made the audience want to see more of them. Only Rose's debut, "Rose", is the real stinker of the lot (well, before "The Snowmen"), and that's largely because of the failures of 1) Billie Piper's acting, 2) the fact that an episode entitled "Rose" ends up being this giant introduction/love letter to The Doctor, and 3) the general ineptitude that defines Series One as a scripted piece of television. But even there you can see the negative effect that as bad an introduction as "Rose" ended up having on the narrative as a whole- Rose's character was deeply hamstrung from the start and it took her literally a season of episodes and a change in Doctors until she finally became genuinely likable to watch onscreen. This is what happens when a Companion is introduced badly into the story - Martha, to a lesser extent, gets this same treatment because of how awful that little romance sideplot of "Smith and Jones" was handled. People end up misremembering Martha as some terrible flat bore with the exact same character arc that Rose did and she's often hated because of that, and it all roots back to inept initial handling of her character. Companions, more than even Doctors themselves, get affected most utterly by how they're introduced because of the way they're integrated as sidekicks of The Doctor. Doctors get a pass from bad or flat initial characterizations because the show is, well, is about them; Companions get no such favoritism because their roles are naturally more marginal (and, one could probably make a decent argument for sexism of the audience having something to do with how it reacts to poorly introduced female characters in media, which Companions almost always are - but I digress) and any sort of awkwardness in their debuts blows out and taints the experience of watching the Companion as a whole. They don't get as long a chance to recover and whatever tics or most obvious flaws the character has ends up defining them - Martha, for instance, was often hamstrung because so many plots involving her ended up being "But she's so in wuv with The Doctor!", despite that whole angle of her arc taking up maybe like a couple of minutes of "Smith and Jones". Companions are both flatter and usually less dimensionalized than The Doctor so any faultiness in their first steps on the show end up being far more damning than when the same thing happens to a Doctor's initial regeneration. First impressions can and have killed Companions; it's much harder to do the same with Doctors. That's what kills Clara in "Snowmen", for me, and why I think it's such an utter chore to watch; the Clara introduced in this episode is so repellent as a character, and so much of this episode is focused on her, that the whole episode ends up falling apart. This episode is about, and in service to, Clara, and as I aforementioned I flat-out don't like Clara. Clara might be the single worst-introduced Companion in Doctor Who's history; she's essentially a reverse Rose. Whereas Rose was brought in as this great and good and amazing person who was everything a Companion should be, even though she clearly wasn't, Clara is brought in as this great and good and amazing person who is everything a Companion should be, and her actions support that notion - too much. Rose failed because of the juxtaposition between what her ostensible abilities were and what her actual capabilities were, compounded with a less-than-successful actress playing her. Clara fails because she's not even human; she's literally Mary Poppins except without the flying umbrella. Nothing she does feels like something an actual human being, much less a character on Doctor Who, would do. She's flawless and perfect and funny and witty and so, so, so annoying. It hurts that Coleman's performance is so adorably good, because when it's on a character that works (like Oswin from "Asylum"), she's cute and lovable, but when she's in a bad character like Clara here, she's the scruffy little yapping dog, constantly nipping at The Doctor's heels to the point where you want to kick her. Which is what made her death come across as such an overwhelming relief, she was the fresh-faced Poochy/Wesley Crusher of Doctor Who and I was happy to see her dead, which totally defeats the point of her character. Clara is brought on in, essentially, the Donna role for Eleven; Ten experienced the same "permanent loss of defining Companion of his run" and if you remember, he was pretty bummed out/broken up over it, to the point where he literally committed genocide. The thing that pulls him back from the abyss and "fixes" him is Donna, and it's why Donna is established so well and so firmly as an eventual permanent Companion even within "The Runaway Bride". Donna is forced into Ten's life and, against her better wishes, ends up helping The Doctor out when he needed it, so there's always a sense of paid debt and earned trust between the two. The audience also likes her not because she's a fantastic character fantastically played by Catherine Tate, but because she's this real, flawed human being even as she's helping Ten out. She's got anger issues, she's as subtle as an ox, and she can be supremely selfish and shallow, and because of those drawbacks she feels like an actual person over a plot device to get Ten out of his funk. Make no mistake, that's the narrative role that Donna plays in "The Runaway Bride". To speak of her character in the crassest, most pragmatic of terms she exists to bring Ten back to reality and have him set up to move on from Rose. That's the role she plays. The reason she works is she's also a fully fledged character in her own right over being just a plot device to make Ten come to some greater moral realization. Clara in "The Snowmen" is not a fully-fledged character, she's the most stereotypical example of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl I've ever seen. I hate, I hate that dumb loving MPDG "phrase", it's the most TVTropes-y bad and stupid way to discount a character, but it's the only way I can adequately describe how flat and lifeless and awful of a character Clara is here. She overtly exists solely to bring Eleven out of his post-Ponds funk (and even the way Eleven is played is the most MPDG-ish setup imaginable, where he's this moody teenager who just doesn't want to do anything because What's the point, maaaaaaaaaaaan?) and does so in the most forced whimsy way fuckin' possible. Even Clara's theme is the most twee as gently caress poo poo imaginable. Doctor Who turns into a lovely indie romantic comedy where Clara climbs an invisible ladder that leads her into a fuckin' spiral staircase in the clouds, sitting atop which is a police box. Tim Burton would call that scene "a bit much". The fact that Clara outsmarts or enables The Doctor at every turn becomes so predictable it's gag-inducing. Let's run down Clara's accomplishments within just this one episode, shall we? Clara, one, fixes The Doctor fully, two, almost completely independently figures out who he is, three, gets a hot makeout sesh with him (because, in an eye-rollingly stereotypical move, Moffat makes Clara have a crush on him), four, gets a spot on the TARDIS, and five, gets gifted the key, maybe the single most important moment of validation for a Companion. This is all in one episode. She's basically the most perfect being in the loving universe, and even the way she dies might be the most overt case of forced sentimentality of Moffat's time running Who. She literally changes the weather because she was too beautiful for this world! That literally happens! Moffat mine as well have drawn a halo over her head as she died, the Saint Clara! It's absurd! Clara in "Snowmen" might be the most overt case of author influence this series has ever seen, because Moffat paints her so blatantly as exactly what her role is in the story - Doctor-Fixer - that none of it has any real meaning. It even somewhat cheapens the point of the narrative, which was to have The Doctor move on from his understandable grief over the loss of the Ponds. When his grief and cynicism gets magic wand-ed away by this wonderful, amazing, perfect character that Moffat introduced and killed off within one episode, then none of it has any real value in the first place because it only existed to be defeated by Clara. It's a show that defeats its own emotionality and cheapens its own consequences by making them so explicitly just a roadblock for the roadblock-solving character Moffat dreamed up to solve. It sucks because I love Jenna Coleman. Her dynamic with Eleven is loving aces, Oxx told me she was brought on as a full-time Companion largely because the speed of the patter she has with Smith is unparalleled. The quickness of their dynamic is a joy to see and when I forget how nauseatingly perfect Clara is in "Snowmen" I really enjoy her character because Coleman kills it. Her chemistry with Smith is undeniable and she has a magnetic screen presence that even Karen Gillan can't match, and you just want to like her. So it says something for how deeply I don't, for how deeply Moffat hosed up writing her that I can barely stand this episode. What a loving failure. Grade: D Random Thoughts: NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 00:40 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 00:34
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The weird thing is she actually has much better on-screen rapport with Capaldi. (He's already said he knows she stays on alongside him, before you all sperg out)
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May 28, 2015 00:39
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Can't believe you forgot to mention that it's called "The Snowmen" and there's a bit where Clara is "walking in the air".
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May 28, 2015 00:57
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The villain in the episode is a returning villain from very early in the classic series the "Great Intelligence". They didn't really explain what it was back then either, they just called it a formless mind floating in space.
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May 28, 2015 01:11
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Wasn't it about this time that they released some previously-lost-forever stories from the old series, one of which featured the Great Intelligence? IIRC, there was some speculation that its inclusion as a villain was connected to that.
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May 28, 2015 01:16
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2house2fly posted:Can't believe you forgot to mention that it's called "The Snowmen" and there's a bit where Clara is "walking in the air". Bet Toxx would love that.
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May 28, 2015 01:18
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You didn't mention that the Intelligence is voiced by Sir Ian McKellen? 
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May 28, 2015 01:19
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I'm glad we can agree that Clara's theme is the most obnoxious piece of music Murray Gold has ever composed for Doctor Who.
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May 28, 2015 01:19
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I actually quite enjoy The Snowmen, but Toxx is right on about Clara being transparently and unashamedly written with "Doctor Fixer" as her primary character-trait. It is a shame that she dies, if only because I wanted the Doctor to have a companion from outside of modern-day London again. For me, perhaps the biggest sin the episode commits is the utterly baffling section where Jenny and Vastra confront Simeon. Keeping in mind that Vastra apparently went out one night and straight up murdered Jack the Ripper, the way she just impotently stands in place while Simeon openly mocks her to her face and then just walks away without a second glance following their confrontation is just bizarre. The idea was obviously supposed to be that this guy was a threat beyond their ability to deal with which was why the needed the Doctor, but the earlier scene of Simeon controlling the Snowmen is, from memory, something only the audience sees and there is no reason I can see why Vastra wouldn't react to his condescension with,"Oh gently caress you, rear end in a top hat, I'm gonna eat your face  "I do like that the story is actually a somewhat less obvious adaptation of Dickens' Christmas Carol than the same-titled previous Christmas Special, with the Doctor playing himself both as Scrooge and as the hero. The scene where he puts on his old gear and stops to look at himself in the mirror and is happy with what he sees is actually kinda sweet. pgroce posted:Wasn't it about this time that they released some previously-lost-forever stories from the old series, one of which featured the Great Intelligence? IIRC, there was some speculation that its inclusion as a villain was connected to that. That happened after this story aired, but if I recall correctly Moffat apparently knew about the find before it was announced and so made a point of bringing the character back seemingly out of the blue.
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May 28, 2015 01:22
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The Snowmen That scene with the stairs and the clouds was loving magical, you heathen! A BSam cargohills Colonel Cool Dave Brookshaw ewe2 Gandalf21 jng2058 Jsor Lipset and Rock On MikeJF Ohtsam onetruepurple Organza Quiz Random Stranger Rochallor Well Manicured Man Xenoborg B adhuin Ali Aces BeefyTaco Bicyclops Blasmeister Capfalcon DoctorWhat fatherboxx Grouchio Labratio LabyaMynora Mo0 Paul.Power Regy Rusty Senerio Stumiester C And More Angela Christine Attitude Indicator Sinestro D Nobody. F Not a blessed soul. Overall Average Guess: B+. So far, the second-highest set of guesses this season. Who'da thunk? Current rankings: Labratio: 5 Grouchio: 6 LabyaMynora: 6 And More: 7 ewe2: 7 Paul.Power: 7 Well Manicured Man: 7 Ali Aces: 8 Dave Brookshaw: 8 DoctorWhat: 8 Mo0: 8 Ohtsam: 8 Rochallor: 8 Xenoborg: 8 Angela Christine: 9 Attitude Indicator: 9 Blasmeister: 9 Bicyclops: 9 Capfalcon: 9 Colonel Cool: 9 jng2058: 9 fatherboxx: 9 Senerio: 9 adhuin: 10 BeefyTaco: 10 Lipset and Rock On: 10 MikeJF: 10 BSam: 11 Jsor: 11 onetruepurple: 11 Organza Quiz: 11 Sinestro: 11 Stumiester: 11 Gandalf21: 12 Random Stranger: 13 Regy Rusty: 13 cargohills: 14 Labratio still hanging on by a fingernail here as the rest of the rankings start to shake out. Most people took a hit on this episode. And, since Toxx didn't do the quotable quotes, I'll give you a few from your friend and mine, the best character to ever be created, Strax: Strax: Sir, permission to express my opposition to your current apathy. The Doctor: Permission granted. Strax: Sir, I am opposed to your current apathy. The Doctor: Thank you, Strax. And if I'm ever in the need of advice from a psychotic potato dwarf, you'll certainly be the first to know. The Doctor: Sontaran. Clone warrior race. Factory produced, whole legions at a time. Two genders is a bit further than he can count. Strax: Sir, do not discuss my reproductive cycle in front of enemy girls. It's embarrassing. The Doctor: What are you doing here? Strax: Madam Vastra was wondering if you needed any grenades. The Doctor: Grenades? Strax: ...she might have said help. Latimer: Children, what is the expla... Who the devil are you? What are you doing in my house? The Doctor: It's OK! I am your governess' gentleman friend, and we've just been upstairs kissing! Alice: Captain Latimer. In the garden, there's snowmen! And they're just growing out of nowhere, all by themselves. Look! [opens door] Vastra: Good evening. I'm a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife. Strax: This dwelling is under attack. Remain calm, human scum. The Doctor: So, any questions? Strax: Sir, please do not noogie me during combat prep. idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 01:32 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 01:27
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Do you want me to get the memory worm?pgroce posted:Wasn't it about this time that they released some previously-lost-forever stories from the old series, one of which featured the Great Intelligence? IIRC, there was some speculation that its inclusion as a villain was connected to that. They also made a sequel to The Snowman in 2012, which may have informed this episode somewhat. Not that The Snowman wasn't a Christmas fixture anyway.
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May 28, 2015 01:36
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howe_sam posted:CSI: Cyber The Beek, Danson, and Academy Award Winnertm Patricia Arquette = a television show that exists to explain to old people why they should be scared of the Facebook and the Googles.
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May 28, 2015 02:02
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In which nobody knows how computers work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bells_of_Saint_John
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May 28, 2015 02:05
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Toxxupation posted:In which nobody knows how FTFY
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May 28, 2015 02:07
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I can't believe the cyber illuminati Bond villain organization was undone by social media over-sharing. I also can't believe that's a real building. I mean, since this episode first aired I've seen it a few more times, but goddamn. It looks like an evil overlords lair, and of course the tower of doom was built on the lower income side. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 02:34 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 02:18
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I love how incompetently Moffat writes people around technology. Once Rory pointed out that his phone is also a camera as if there was the slightest chance a human in 2010 would own a phone that wasn't also a camera. In this episode Clara, a woman in her mid 20s who was not raised by animals in the woods and who is intelligent enough to form coherent sentences and operate a telephone, essentially asks "where, and indeed what, is the internet?" I like this episode a lot as well so I'm going to go ahead and predict an F.
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May 28, 2015 02:20
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2house2fly posted:I love how incompetently Moffat writes people around technology. Once Rory pointed out that his phone is also a camera as if there was the slightest chance a human in 2010 would own a phone that wasn't also a camera. In this episode Clara, a woman in her mid 20s who was not raised by animals in the woods and who is intelligent enough to form coherent sentences and operate a telephone, essentially asks "where, and indeed what, is the internet?" I didn't like this episode at all, so I'm predicting an A.
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May 28, 2015 02:23
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I did enjoy Elevan's Sherlock bit, right down to using the same music as Sherlock. That he was completely and absolutely wrong made it all betteridonotlikepeas posted:The Snowmen 
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May 28, 2015 02:25
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Craptacular! posted:I can't believe the cyber illuminati Bond Chilson organization was undone by social media over-sharing. I can. Moffat might have issues with technology, but this is a completely accurate way for that to happen. As I recall, MI6 had to appoint a new super-secret head (the equivalent of M from the Bond films, only they use a different letter) because the wife of the guy they were giving the job to openly congratulated her husband on it on Facebook.
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May 28, 2015 02:33
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Cleretic posted:I can. Moffat might have issues with technology, but this is a completely accurate way for that to happen. As I recall, MI6 had to appoint a new super-secret head (the equivalent of M from the Bond films, only they use a different letter) because the wife of the guy they were giving the job to openly congratulated her husband on it on Facebook. Oh, right. I vaguely remember hearing about that. Also, curse you auto correct. Stop using names from my contacts before Johnson Green Murphy Ross.
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May 28, 2015 02:36
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Toxxupation posted:
So that's why you were asking about Six in the main thread. Hah
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May 28, 2015 02:43
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2house2fly posted:Can't believe you forgot to mention that it's called "The Snowmen" and there's a bit where Clara is "walking in the air". What is this referencing? It's completely lost on me at least.
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May 28, 2015 03:56
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Cleretic posted:I can. Moffat might have issues with technology, but this is a completely accurate way for that to happen. As I recall, MI6 had to appoint a new super-secret head (the equivalent of M from the Bond films, only they use a different letter) because the wife of the guy they were giving the job to openly congratulated her husband on it on Facebook. C. It's C. The person might be secret, the letter is not.
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May 28, 2015 03:57
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Diabolik900 posted:What is this referencing? It's completely lost on me at least. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubeVUnGQOIk
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May 28, 2015 04:04
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howe_sam posted:I did enjoy Elevan's Sherlock bit, right down to using the same music as Sherlock. That he was completely and absolutely wrong made it all better The best part is that he's specifically completely wrong about the human man but had the Intelligence's number immediately. I really enjoyed this Christmas special more than most of the others, but I think a lot of it is because most of the other specials are kinda poo poo.
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May 28, 2015 04:11
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The ending of this episode rules. The rest, not so much. I just wish people would stop confusing "upload" and "download." They are clearly opposites.
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May 28, 2015 04:15
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Thanks. I don't think this is as well-known among us Americans (at least I'm assuming since I'd never seen/heard of it before; someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
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May 28, 2015 04:18
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DetoxP posted:I just wish people would stop confusing "upload" and "download." They are clearly opposites. It's all relative.
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May 28, 2015 04:20
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Toxxupation posted:
Ahh, yeah. That is a problem for awhile. She definitely exists for the Doctor's character development and for the "How is she multiple people?" plot point and not as her own person and character. It' a legit complaint and Jenna Coleman definitely deserved better right from the start.
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May 28, 2015 04:24
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Cleretic posted:I can. Moffat might have issues with technology, but this is a completely accurate way for that to happen. As I recall, MI6 had to appoint a new super-secret head (the equivalent of M from the Bond films, only they use a different letter) because the wife of the guy they were giving the job to openly congratulated her husband on it on Facebook. Well not quite, the real story was a bit less fanciful. The head of MI6 isn't a secret - actually the opposite, they're the only member of the organization who is made officially known to the public. The issue was actually that John Sawers' wife's Facebook account had no privacy protection so once he was announced people were able to see all kinds of details about his personal life that they'd have rather been kept private. It doesn't seem to have really been that big of a deal past the initial story though, he still got the job and served for 5 years.
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May 28, 2015 04:31
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Thank gently caress he agrees with me about Snowmen. That was my exact reaction when I watched it two weeks ago.
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May 28, 2015 04:31
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Gaz-L posted:C. Ah, right. I should've been clear, I knew the letter wasn't secret, I just didn't know it. Of course, the more important question: is there actually a Q?
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May 28, 2015 04:43
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the upcoming review features a super secret special guest!!!!
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May 28, 2015 04:49
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It's Tim Allen, isn't it
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May 28, 2015 04:53
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Letterman quit so he could give this review his full attention.
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May 28, 2015 04:54
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Is it Don Knotts?
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May 28, 2015 04:55
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Toxxupation posted:the upcoming review features a super secret special guest!!!! it's cobiwann and they're doing an audio.
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May 28, 2015 05:01
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