|
I remember it because it has "he who could have been Wolverine" himself, Dougray Scott. You poor bastard. If Mission Impossible II's production hadn't gone long, would you still have ended up being in an episode of Doctor Who?
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2015 20:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 10:16 |
|
|
I was so sure Cold War was going to do poorly, what with the unnecessarily revived and goofy CGI old Who enemy, the super sparse plot that spends 20 minutes in the middle not really doing much of anything and no real standout moments for any character. Maybe I'm just allergic to Gatiss episodes.  Really loved Hide though, so I'm hoping that the bad opinion haver turns out to have been Oxx on this one.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 01:44
|
|
|
300 pages. Jesus Christmas.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 02:48
|
|
|
I love Hide almost as much as Cold War. The atmosphere of it is really evocative, and it's cool as hell how it turns a ghost story into a timey-wimey thing. Also I guess I am a big romantic sap because I got weirdly invested in the Professor and the psychic lady. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 03:05
|
|
|
Having read Oxx's reviews in this thread it's hard for me to imagine him absolutely loving this episode, but then it's hard for me to imagine anyone absolutely loving this episode.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 03:17
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:Having read Oxx's reviews in this thread it's hard for me to imagine him absolutely loving this episode, but then it's hard for me to imagine anyone absolutely loving this episode. Yeah while I really dug a lot of this episode the main thrust of the plot ended up boring the poo poo out of me and the weird poo poo about destiny or whatever didn't sit right.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 04:30
|
|
|
I really liked this episode. When I got the gist I turned off all the lights in my house and lit candles while watching it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 05:33
|
|
|
While I'm not fond of Hide, it is important to note that it's a direct translation of horror films being made in the UK during the 70's. And as a result, more than any other episode of the new series, this reminds me of classic Who a lot...
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 15:48
|
|
|
The main thing I took from 'Hide' was that Call The Midwife wore a rad as 70s gently caress jumper. Oh and all of Luther owns and you're wrong and a grotesquely ugly fool if you dis the genius of the hammer rockin' D&D Twins from S2.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 16:31
|
|
|
Yeah, the finale for Luther S2 was incredible. Whole time I was trying to figure out how Luther would outsmart the guy. Also, I honestly thought Hide was next season. It'd totally fit, too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 18:56
|
|
|
Sentinel Red posted:The main thing I took from 'Hide' was that Call The Midwife wore a rad as 70s gently caress jumper. Verity Lambert is indeed styling and profiling in this. In related news, An Adventure in Space and Time is very sweet and should be probably watched before Capaldi if it's going to happen.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 20:33
|
|
|
ThaGhettoJew posted:Verity Lambert is indeed styling and profiling in this. If he feels like including it, he may as well watch it right around the time it aired, near the 50th. It is pretty cool. Listening to the actors, producers and directors from that era on the commentary is really fun, because 50 years later, they still care about it so much. Verity Lambert is very proud of how genuine they were about it, and Waris Hussein feels like it's the moment he became a real director. Christopher Barry cringes at all the boom shadows and set joints you can see, but adds the the claustrophobic set actually forced them to make many of the shots intimate, and is extremely proud of how long the Daleks have lasted. The Dalek performers have pride in the way they moved the props around, insisting it was a performance and not mere technical work. Carole Ann Ford still speaks very fondly of the part, but is clearly furious at how often she was reduced to screaming. They all care about the show so much! Gatiss really captures the vibe well.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 20:50
|
|
|
I honestly wish it had aired before this season ended, given that I think some of the stuff to come is written with an understanding of Hartnell (both recognizing him and having some idea of what his Doctor is like) in mind. As someone who was in the same place as Occ, it was around here where I began wondering why this old man's face kept repeatedly showing up in episodes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 21:24
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:I honestly wish it had aired before this season ended, given that I think some of the stuff to come is written with an understanding of Hartnell (both recognizing him and having some idea of what his Doctor is like) in mind. It really isn't, though 
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 21:25
|
|
|
Doctor Who "Hide" Series 7, Episode 10 I can't remember the last time the final five minutes of an episode poisoned me as thoroughly against it as "Hide"'s did. Oh wait, yes I can: "Love and Monsters". This episode isn't as objectively bad as that trash heap masquerading as an episode of television, but it's the best example I can think of in recent memory where the ending kills whatever real joy there is to be had within it as a televistic whole. To be fair, though, "Hide" was already starting to lose me about halfway through it. Once the mystery of what, exactly, the "ghost" was was revealed the episode quickly started to lose steam and reverted back into a traditional "someone's in trouble, let's go find the person in trouble" sort of story, which made me more and more disinterested with the story as it went on. As soon as Hila (Kemi-Bo Jacobs) was introduced into the narrative the episode lost much of its mystique and allure which it never really recovered from as time went on, and made the goawful finale scene all the more wretched. It sucks because so much of "Hide", up to the halfway point, was so good; it's able to establish the setting and tone really well of being this haunted, claustrophobic character piece about the complex and layered lives of the two people immediately within it. What makes "Hide" so unique as a story before it sells out that conceit is the fact that so much of the early going is spent on scenework between Alec Palmer (Dougray Scott) and Emma Grayling (Jessica Raine). Their little story about investigating the house where the entirety of "Hide" is set for ghosts before Eleven and Clara bust in to help out, and their subsequent will-they-won't-they romance angle genuinely works. The two performances of Scott and Raine are both fantastic, but the reason why the Palmer/Grayling scenes are so effective is because they're not marginilized; so often an episode-specific character or characters gets pushed into the background or dimensionalized via direct interaction with The Doctor and/or his Companion, and in contrast Hide places the Alec and Emma story front-and-center. It's so focused upon in the narrative that it basically turns into a secondary A-plot, as whatever The Doctor and Clara are doing is directly juxtaposed with the trials and tribulations of Alec and Emma. Besides the scenes between Alec and Emma being, themselves, good, their storyline also works because it's built so heavily it makes the audience care about them and the romance angle, which the climax partially hinges on to land. This isn't an afterthought romance, the arc of the entire episode is reliant on building up and paying off that romance. To its credit, "Hide" succeeds admirably on that front. Which is part of the reason that when "Hide" switches over at the halfway point, I got less interested; I was far, far more invested in Alec and Emma's lives than I was in them saving Hila from a collapsing universe. The episode calcified that general dislike I had by focusing the episode entirely on the plot, which only interested me insofar as wanting to know what exactly was going on; once the episode revealed what the mystery was I stopped caring. The stakes of "Hide" were far better when they were small and focused in and around Caliburn Manor, one of the better single locations that Who has shot at over the year. It's often the case that questions are far more satisfying than answers, and there's a liveliness and energy to the first half of "Hide" that isn't really present in its second. Even beyond the Alec/Emma stuff, which was all front-loaded, the scenes between Clara and The Doctor had a real sense of excitement to them that isn't really present in the second half. Once the whole "pocket universe" conceit is revealed, "Hide" turns largely into a going-through-the-motions run-shouter, and it's inherently less fascinating. It doesn't help that once the stakes were raised to saving somebody's life, that naturally became the focus of the episode so the character work got heavily backgrounded. Clara gets a nice moment with the TARDIS in the second half and that's...about it, really, in contrast to its first where Clara seems really vibrant and interesting, especially when interacting with or about The Doctor. To update ClaraWatch 2015, the show still doesn't really have a decent handle on how to characterize her but at least giving her a fear of ghosts gives Jenna Coleman some textural stuff to work with and at least makes Clara interestingly flawed. Clara so often operates in, at worst, a state of humored bemusement like ninety percent of the time so making her at least slightly hesitant humanizes her and gives her some interesting character traits, if not necessarily a character itself. To be clear, though, I don't think the second half of "Hide" is necessarily bad so much as it wastes the idea of the smaller scope and almost bottle episode-like quality of its first half. The explanation was fine but the expansion of the episode's narrative to be this universe hopping thing with The Doctor rappelling down a psychic tunnel that Emma made came across as somewhat samey. The first half of "Hide" has a strong sense of place, a specific and varied voice that it uses to parallel the story of The Doctor and Clara trying desperately to figure out what is causing the ghost phenomenon with Emma and Alec's budding romance. We get a strong sense of Alec's backstory and the specific pain he feels, and even hints of the deep PTSD he suffers, contrasted directly against Emma's overwhelming sense of loneliness and her general inability to connect with others. Alec and Emma are two extremely flawed people trying to work through their own demons together, so it's unfortunate that their journey is placed strictly secondary to the saving of Hila. The reveal that Hila is Alec and Emma's great-great-whatever granddaughter feels both rushed and a fumbling, obvious attempt to sort of root the episode back into being "about" Alec and Emma after spending the past twenty minutes not being about them. That final reveal, though, of the "monster" that was chasing Hila in the pocket universe to be desperately searching for its Earth-stranded mate was some stone-cold loving bullshit, however. I've mentioned before that few times when I'm actively watching Who do i reject or react extremely negatively to something in the moment that it happens; when I don't like something, when something nags at me it's this sort of buzzing, back-in-my-head problem that develops the more and more I think about it, especially when I'm trying to put my thoughts to paper in these reviews. Something being so bad it makes me go "gently caress this" as I'm watching has to be especially egregious, which is exactly how I reacted to the whole "This isn't a ghost story, it's a...love story!" reveal. To me that whole gag-inducing reveal is so saccharine sweet and so out of loving NOWHERE that it taints the whole experience for me and leads me to overall kind of hate this whole episode. I like emotional moments, but I don't like - as a matter of fact, I hate - being blatantly emotionally manipulated, which is how the whole "monster is just looking for love" reveal comes across as. It's this weird random Shyamalan "twist" inserted into the end of the episode that wasn't built to or emotionally earned at all, and in the viewing makes me disgusted with "Hide" as a whole, knowing that that scene is the final scene of the episode. For Oxx's part, he loves that reveal. He's always been one to worship structure over emotional resonance - his heart is like made of coal or whatever sort of ironically self-loathing statement he would use to describe how he's not affected by the emotionality of media. To him, the ending works because it reinforces the themes and symbolism of its narrative - he defended it to me by pointing out how "Hide" as a whole functions by being this lesson about two couples and how they need each other to function, and the lengths they will go to to save the other, so making the "monster" into part of a third pair needing companionship reinforces "Hide"'s story. Making the monster into another lovestruck innocent turns the rote conceit of "woman running from scary death monster who Eleven saves" on its head, and to him the episode is reasonable and fully well-structured. He doesn't and never has cared about the emotional resonance of "Hide"; to him the episode works, and works extremely well, because it's able to build up and pay off its themes of companionship and the necessity of companionship in a way that makes the episode feel earned. He doesn't care that "the power of love" is hokey, if the ending is or isn't emotionally manipulative because either way he isn't drawn in by it - to him, the ending works as a symbolic and thematic capper to the story "Hide" was expressing. On some level, objectively speaking, I agree with him - although I would vehemently disagree with the assertion that the "monster is in love" reveal was built to well, as I mentioned before. But to me my criteria for a piece of artistic media landing and resonating with me is much simpler - I don't care if cerebrally, or on some sort of objective level, such a reveal works, if such a moment doesn't pass my own personal sniff test in the viewing I can't force myself to like it just because it was an "earned" moment. I hated it when watching it the first time, and I hated it when I watched it the second to write this review. And just like "Parting of the Ways" or "Love and Monsters", knowing that that specific moment is what the episode had built to and that it landed so emphatically with a thud, at least to me, makes me hate "Hide". Grade: C Random Thoughts:
NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jun 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 02:22
|
|
|
Thinking it over more, there were two parts of the end to Hide that bugged me. If the pocket universe is collapsing why bring the scary shadow monster things to it? What happened to the Doctor's insistence that taking the Tardis into the pocket universe would kill it dead?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 02:52
|
|
|
Just rewatched this and man, Jessica Raine does a lot of impressively pained screaming this episode.howe_sam posted:What happened to the Doctor's insistence that taking the Tardis into the pocket universe would kill it dead? I think the idea on this was that it couldn't physically land
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 03:07
|
|
|
I love the ending (and feel it is very emotionally strong too) but you're right that it takes the episode up to that point and takes a pretty hard turn in what feels like a completely different direction. I also think the reveal that most if not all of the monster's threatening moments were a result of being interpreted the wrong way by the humans (and the Doctor) was quite good. Also, I just love how excited the Doctor gets once he figures everything out and runs around getting over-stimulated and blowing reveals like the relationship between the couple and the astronaut
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 03:10
|
|
|
I overall liked this episode, but I wish it did stick with the creepy, almost X-Files vibe the first half gave off. Humanizing the ghost was a bit of a wrong turn for me, and I almost wish they ended the episode still not really knowing what it was.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 03:13
|
|
|
I liked that ending, both because it was thematically sound and an interesting subversion of the usual scary monster dynamic. oh dear I'm afraid for Toxx's reaction to a certain future episode now.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 03:31
|
|
|
Edit: nvm
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 03:32
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:Thinking it over more, there were two parts of the end to Hide that bugged me. If the pocket universe is collapsing why bring the scary shadow monster things to it? What happened to the Doctor's insistence that taking the Tardis into the pocket universe would kill it dead? The TARDIS could only exist in the pocket universe for a matter of seconds at a time before dying. That's why The Doctor had to go into the pocket universe through the portal at the end so he had time to explain things to the monster, then they jumped onto the TARDIS when it swooped through that universe for a second or two, quickly enough that it wouldn't die. Then he was going to take them somewhere else.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 03:41
|
|
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_the_Centre_of_the_TARDIS In which we find the swimming pool.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 04:17
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_the_Centre_of_the_TARDIS Oh. This piece of utter poo poo. Oh boy. Tox, I swear to God, if you do not give this the grade it deserves Well I mean nothing will happen and the thread will continue on But I'll be cross!
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 04:20
|
|
|
Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS is an episode where it really feels like they came up with 'let's explore the TARDIS!' and then never really had a good idea of what to do with it. And they didn't even really have enough of a budget or imagination to do exploring the TARDIS particularly well.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 04:29
|
|
|
I enjoyed this episode 
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 04:29
|
|
|
It seems my opinions on the back half of season 7 are mostly that the episodes were okay but had some issues. This one tried to juggle too much for an hour, and I think rather than trying to create parallels between the two main plots, they might have wanted to make it more of a bottle episode where we finally get to know who Clara is. It has some interesting ideas with the inside the TARDIS stuff, though. What I remember the most were some of the comments from the discussion here afterward.  Some of the worst offenders don't seem to post anymore, but uh... wow. e: also, he mentioned the pool, so it's time for that gif again! Into the pool, everyone! Hop on in! 
Bicyclops fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jun 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 04:39
|
|
|
It's unfair, but usually my reaction to this episode is,"I wish they'd had the budget for this when they did The Doctor's Wife." On the other hand, the budgetary constraint probably made for a tighter script and stronger story anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 04:45
|
|
|
So, as I was saying, the Doctor trying to barter his TARDIS with companion trapped inside and then leaving everyone in a death trap seems like an early Hartnell plot to me. Most people who hate this episode hate it for the casting, it seems. I think they've since made efforts to redeem themselves, but that's for another time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 05:07
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:So, as I was saying, the Doctor trying to barter his TARDIS with companion trapped inside and then leaving everyone in a death trap seems like an early Hartnell plot to me. Oh not just the casting. The writing is also pretty terrible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 05:08
|
|
|
This episode was just bad. Like the only episode of Doctor Who that I watched and actually thought, "I hated this episode" immediately after watching.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 05:09
|
|
|
The "gag" killed the episode for me, all sorts of reasons it made no sense even for a Doctor Who episode.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 05:14
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixY3p4SpSjg
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 05:25
|
|
|
Hell yeah! Strap on your goggles, it's pool time!
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 05:26
|
|
|
I just saw freema agyeman's boobs also she had a fairly convincing american accent
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 05:43
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:It seems my opinions on the back half of season 7 are mostly that the episodes were okay but had some issues. This is how I feel about 7.5 as well. I have been a fan of Eleven and Moffat's DW since I started watching but by the end of the next Christmas special I was starting to get pretty tired of it until Capaldi relit my interest.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 05:52
|
|
|
I actually had the opposite reaction, I found the first half of season 7 to feel a little uninspiring (it's somewhat better on a second viewing) and though that the back half really stood out more, and by the end it had me pretty hyped up for what was to follow. To be fair, it was the 50th Anniversary so I would have probably been hyped up regardless.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 06:39
|
|
|
Toxxupation posted:I just saw freema agyeman's boobs Are you watching The Carrie Diaries?
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 07:32
|
|
|
PriorMarcus posted:Are you watching The Carrie Diaries? sense8
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 07:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 10:16 |
|
|
Toxxupation posted:sense8 What grade would you give it? It looks like the general opinion is 'whaaaaaa' but I'm not exactly looking at actual discussions on it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2015 08:10
|
|
