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Random Stranger posted:I'm not even going to mention that this episode is based on one of the better stories from the original series, Doctor Who and the Silurians, since this episode is even more directly based on the classic one than Victor of the Daleks was. This episode being a complete rip off is perfectly above board, even in the original run there was a grand tradition of ripping off Doctor Who and the Silurians.
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Jan 27, 2015 10:49
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, first time I saw this episode I was bitterly disappointed because the run of episodes under Moffat to this point had been consistently good (Victory was the "worst" and it was still fine). When I rewatched it a year or so back it wasn't as bad as I remembered in that I at least knew what was coming, but getting hit by it the first time after that stretch of great episodes is really disappointing and make the (many) bad things about it stand out even more. It's contrasts so strongly with all the other episodes so far, but as you say probably would have fit in with the RTD era without raising a single eyebrow. Chibnall didn't seem to get the message that RTD wasn't running the show anymore though, though to be fair it was the first season under Moffat's control and it's not like he got to see all the other episodes beforehand and then write it - I guess he produced what he figured was entirely in keeping with the way Doctor Who episodes went. I know I went in with high expectations. This episode wasn't just off the back of the best run in the revival, it was the first of the second two-parter of the season (a spot which had seen Empty Child, The Impossible Planet, Human Nature and Silence in the Library). There is a very rough plan for the series (it's no coincidence that the first three stories in a season have always been one present, one past, one future) and this slot had been for the big, impressive two-parter. On top of that, it was reintroducing one of the remaining big antagonists from the original series. And then it was a wet fart. Not even a big wet fart; the episode feels so small, with a tiny cast for what should be such a big operation. The Pertwee story where the Silurians were introduced actually had a heap of extras filling out the nuclear research station and UNIT. Here they are trying to dig further than anybody's gone before, and they have fewer people than the team on a garden renovation show.
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Jan 27, 2015 11:51
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The Pertwee story where the Silurians were introduced actually had a heap of extras filling out the nuclear research station and UNIT. Here they are trying to dig further than anybody's gone before, and they have fewer people than the team on a garden renovation show. To be fair, I recall there being some attempt of an explanation at least - there was supposedly usually a big crew of people there but they'd all departed and left behind a skeleton crew for the weekend. Given they were so close to breaking the record for deepest drilling it's kind of ludicrous that this would happen, but at least SOME attempt was made to explain the small crew/cast.
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Jan 27, 2015 12:14
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Jerusalem posted:To be fair, I recall there being some attempt of an explanation at least - there was supposedly usually a big crew of people there but they'd all departed and left behind a skeleton crew for the weekend. Given they were so close to breaking the record for deepest drilling it's kind of ludicrous that this would happen, but at least SOME attempt was made to explain the small crew/cast. I thought I remembered something like that but didn't have the episode on hand to check. It still feels really weak.
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Jan 27, 2015 12:22
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I don't think this episode is really worthy of hate, it's just bland and generic. It's like Doctor Who fanfiction by someone who has seen all of the show but doesn't really understand how to make it work.Jerusalem posted:To be fair, I recall there being some attempt of an explanation at least - there was supposedly usually a big crew of people there but they'd all departed and left behind a skeleton crew for the weekend. Given they were so close to breaking the record for deepest drilling it's kind of ludicrous that this would happen, but at least SOME attempt was made to explain the small crew/cast. Why would you need to monitor your giant, continuously running super drill 24/7 anyway? It's not the kind of thing that I'd typically call out in the show since they are limited by BBC money, but this episode is just so underpopulated that it's noticeable.
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Jan 27, 2015 16:27
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This is the most RTD episode of the Moffat run up to this point. Tons of things are happening and none of them mean anything or catch your attention. They occur and end and no one is better off. It even has the completely meaningless B plot with annoying side characters that takes
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Jan 27, 2015 17:15
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This episode was so bad to me I actually skipped the second part. That's the only episode of the revival I never bothered with. I assume that everyone kept being dicks and then the Doctor sorted them out. Also the Silurians just look so bad and terrible.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:37
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:I have my own review game. I take a shot for every part where "doctor who is a show about..." or "the thing about [showrunner] is..." or some description of what it takes to make a show (wildly inaccurate, of course) and also a cover-all shot for every miscellaneous tangent. I would take a shot every time a new review grade completely contradicts with all the paragraphs of moon logic used to rationalize old grades, but I always pass out before I find out. Take a shot every time I write "conceptually speaking it's x but executionally speaking it's y"
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Jan 27, 2015 17:39
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...oh dear. I think I gave this a B? Ah well, guess it was coming. I didn't mind this episode to be honest - it was fairly mediocre, but pretty enjoyable. Ah well!
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Jan 27, 2015 17:41
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I gave this episode a C because I only remembered it being dull. I had to push myself through the rewatch of this 2-parter and I don't think the initial assessment was far off. Nothing happens in a boring location with a load of really forgettable characters and the main party is split up and given no real interactions with each other. I think the guy who said grading on an A or F only scale might have done us a lot better this season is onto something. Compared to the rest of the season it's a real drag, so I can understand the relative F grade even if it doesn't do any one absolutely terrible thing.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:52
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Toxxupation posted:Take a shot every time I write "conceptually speaking it's x but executionally speaking it's y" Good lord, are you trying to kill him?
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Jan 27, 2015 18:10
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surc posted:Good lord, are you trying to kill him? Conceptionally? Yes. Executionally? Also yes.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:21
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Doctor Who "The Hungry Earth" Series 5, Episode 8 And we were having such a nice time, too. "The Hungry Earth" is a bad episode, but it's often believed to come off even worse because it's parked smack-dab in the middle of the otherwise quite good Series 5; the contrast, people understandably say, is not to its favor. People also say it's not exactly bad in the style of Love & Monsters or Voyage of the Damned or Journey's loving End, just bland and unremarkable to the point of dullness. After rewatching it, I'm going to take the opposite tack - "The Hungry Earth" sucks, yes, but it sucks on its own merits, independent of context, and its blandness hides a seething mess of issues with its script that scuttle like cockroaches under the merciless glare of my critical acumen. First, we're back in Wales. Bad sign! Although this particular slice of Welsh scenery is a lot less urban and claustrophobic than Davies' sets, the grey, washed-out coloration does nothing to add to the episode's appeal or atmosphere. We spend a generous portion of its runtime literally looking at dirt, and so much of the setting is dirt-colored, brown and grey and washed-out green. Compared to the brightly lit, strongly contrasting colors of the pastoral setting of "Amy's Choice," this coloration leaves the audience feeling dull and depressed, and "The Hungry Earth" calls for neither; it's a run-shout action episode that has no action to justify its running or shouting, not a mood piece. Compared to the settings of similarly "dull" episodes like "The Lazarus Experiment" and "42" - that sweeping blue-grey cathedral with its single brilliant splotch of red, or the sweltering, cluttered interior of the sun-scooper - "The Hungry Earth" comes off poorly. It's the Gears of War of Doctor Who environments. But have no fear, because we look to be spending its next half in a series of dark tunnels, oh be still my heart. Second, we have a wide-ranging and eclectic ensemble cast that takes up most of the episode's screentime, or as I like to call them, a "gaggle of douchebags." Doctor Who rarely has much luck with big ensemble casts; most of the time they're just slasher movie-esque corpses-in-waiting, and very often their awful characterization and camera-hogging contributes to stinkers like "Voyage of the Damned." It takes work to make a cast of one-offs that are more interesting than the Doctor and his private retinue, as "The Waters of Mars" (probably the one unambiguous success; the "Satan Pit" two-parter was nice but that was all on Tennant and Piper) did by lending a powerful significance to their own doomed status. "The Hungry Earth" just drops these assholes on us, quietly shunts away Amy and Rory, and expects us to care about the one-offs for the entire duration. Doctor Who often seems to be about celebrating the ordinary and the mundane, as demonstrated repeatedly by the Doctor's offense at anyone who believes anything to be "unimportant," but the drill crew and their awful family are a sound argument against that whole premise - they're all as ordinary as dirt, and they're all awful. They have nothing to attract an audience, and no, Eliot, an adorable tiny Scottish accent and dyslexia don't count. Meera Syal is the only one who tries to put actual life into her performance as head scientist Nasreen Chaudhry, but as Occ pointed out, the laser-like focus on her character rapidly becomes obnoxious. I wouldn't call her a River Song archetype, she doesn't have the coolly competent action-hero veneer vital for that role; instead she comes across as an aged-up Rose Tyler, eagerly yipping at the Doctor's heels because he momentarily impressed her. The Doctor's usual method of sashaying onto the scene and taking over a crisis barely feels earned here, since there's so little chemistry between any of the actors that it feels like everyone's just saying "I rather like that Doctor chap, he knows what he's doing" because that's what it reads on their cue cards. The way that scriptwriter Chris Chibnall (who previously gave us the vapor-thin "42") focuses on these characters while quietly shunting Rory into the background and dropping Amy down a hole is criminal enough, but the ensemble cast's weakness even accomplishes the superhuman task of dragging down Smith himself. Smith is wonderful, of course, playing his physical acting up even more than usual, dropping to the ground and rising up again like his vertebrae are made of springs, but the complete lack of follow-up from all the other actors gives his performance an almost futile, desperate feel. He'd like more than anything for one of these loving people to do something instead of just stand around looking bewildered, and so "The Hungry Earth" comes across as a drab one-man show broken up by the rare, treasured moments with Rory. Here's a fun game to play - go back through this episode (don't actually do this) and count up the number of lines these people say around the Doctor that aren't questions. I guarantee you the count is going to be a very low one. Smith is a lone man on stage with a bunch of lumpy animatronic props that Chibnall decided were more interesting than the actors we've already come to know and love, and it makes "The Hungry Earth" an agonizing bore. What's also boring is the drill. Ha ha, tip your waitress. No, what I meant was the drill coming up from under the ground, which is the sole threat for nearly 30 straight goddamn minutes and announces itself only by a vague shaking of the earth. That's it - all this drama, all this running and shouting, is because of a shaky camera every five to ten minutes. We have everyone getting worked up by a threat when there's no threat, just a literal hole in the ground. And when a threat does materialize, it turns out to be a skinny lady in makeup with a bad mask and a worse CGI tongue. The Daleks, these aren't. No, these are the Silurians, another returning serial alien, though with a fairly dramatic reboot in their appearance. I often heard that, of all the serial baddies, the Silurans were the only ones who looked better in the old days, so I checked it out for myself. First of all, thanks so very much to all of you for making me expose myself to the old-style sound design, it's horrible, it's atrocious, it's like a soundtrack composed entirely of dog whistles and cats having their nails pulled out. As for the old Silurians - ha ha, yeah, no. The old-style lizard people probably looked sophisticated at the time - the mouths of their masks could actually move and there was an unpleasantly slimy sheen to their "skin" - but they were still clunky, cumbersome, and clearly fake. You could see the creases in the backs of the masks, for crying out loud. The cut-rate scale makeup of the new-style Silurians at least lets them emote, but there's a host of other problems with them. The Silurians' central conceit is simple enough; they're the pre-mammalian sapient race of the Earth, and got forced underground when humanity started to strut its stuff. Now most of them are in hibernation with a few very irate outliers still trying to take back their land. Obvious native-displacement metaphor, but with less genocide. And that's the central problem with the Silurians - they're an analogy for something that really doesn't jibe, at all, with Doctor Who's tone, being the good-natured kids' program that it is. It's not willing or able to rebuke one side or the other, so conflicts with the Silurians will typically involve everyone impotently glaring at each other under they all go back to the status quo. The Silurians don't look threatening, they can't act particularly threatening, and making them particularly sympathetic would entail pointing to the human race and saying "y'all are dicks," so they never engender much interest. And then there's the way they talk. The first time I heard lone reptile commando Alaya call humans apes, I thought that surely this wouldn't grow horribly tiresome in about five minutes. And my powers of sarcastic prognostication were correct; five minutes later, the "ape" talk was still coming, and I absolutely didn't groan so loud that whales believed a cousin had come home. Oh, and one other thing, regarding that whole scene with the lizard-surgeon - it's not "dissected," it's "vivisected." Trust me, mad scientists, your patients/victims will appreciate the difference. I don't give grades, as the handful of you who actually read my posts have noticed, but "The Hungry Earth" deserves every inch of its F. It's not just bland; it's inept, ugly, and lifeless, and so bland that those qualities barely come through because it doesn't demand enough of your attention to notice them. It's like waiting for a bus in the rain while someone pokes you in the back of the head at random intervals. Occ compared it to a Rusty episode, but it's not like a Rusty episode. Sure, we have all the key ingredients - a horribly dull ensemble cast, a serial villain without any charm, running, shouting, Wales - but "The Hungry Earth" is so rote and predictable that it lacks the key ingredient of Davies' tenure. No, what we have here is far worse. What we have is a Rusty episode, without the camp. That shudder you all just felt was completely understandable, and we still have 45 minutes of this poo poo to go. "The Hungry Earth" is such a stain on Series 5 that I blotted most of it out, and odds are things aren't going to go much better with its successor. Much like Chibnall's last effort, I'll probably forget half of it as soon as I finish writing about it. Oh, what a shame that'll be. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 19:11
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What the hell would a couple of geologists (or whatever) learn from a dissection anyway?
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Jan 27, 2015 19:24
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Lycus posted:What the hell would a couple of geologists (or whatever) learn from a dissection anyway? could be looking for kidney stones
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Jan 27, 2015 19:28
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:could be looking for kidney stones Give that man a small cigar
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Jan 27, 2015 19:29
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:could be looking for kidney stones you're the best
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Jan 27, 2015 19:50
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I appreciate the original design more even though I find it silly because it is infinitely more interesting. I am a fan of giant monster nonsense and karate bug men punching star fish hitler's in the face, so I'm very much at home with guys in cumbersome suits. The fact that their mouths COULD move shocked me. I really wish they had tried to make the Silurians less human looking- it should be within their ability to do ANYTHING other than just giving some people bumpy green paint. At least retain the third eye thing, that was interesting at least. No? We're just going with the Hulk if he had a skin condition and was skinny? Whatever show. I appreciate effort. Effort went into the original Silurian costumes- no effort was done for these guys. And before anyone asks, as I'll say in my actual write up later- I saw the original Silurian story after this one. I saw this as it aired, I only just saw Doctor Who and the Silurians last year.
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Jan 27, 2015 20:26
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Oxxidation posted:Doctor Who BBC Composer: "Yes MORE banging on a piano and menacing kazoo, more off-putting synth stings!!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nAiTjxJkk8 Sushi in Yiddish fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 20:47
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Sushi in Yiddish posted:menacing kazoo lord have mercy
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Jan 27, 2015 20:58
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Sushi in Yiddish posted:BBC Composer: "Yes MORE banging on a piano and menacing kazoo, more off-putting synth stings!!" This kind of experimental poo poo is what separates man from the animals
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Jan 27, 2015 21:01
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This episode featured one of my most hated action movie cliches: Inter-cutting timer counting down with a montage of people doing stuff that would clearly take much more time than is shown. I'm not going to go back and check, but didn't they originally have something like 19 minutes before the monsters arrived? In that time they were able to gather every electronic device in the vicinity and jury-rig them into an elaborate security system while still having time for a few heartfelt conversations. There was no reason they couldn't have made the countdown a few hours, since they were trapped under the bubble anyway, and there was definitely no reason to show stuff like the kid doing his super-elaborate no-words drawing in under two minutes. And then, after all that, they don't actually use their fancy new security system to lure the monster into a trap, they just stand out in the open and let it charge them so that they can throw it into a van. As you might be able to guess from my username, I actually like cheesy scenes like that where the good guys have their backs to the wall and have to figure out a way to survive or escape using only what objects and tools are laying around, but there has to be some kind of payoff to it. Still, as bad as this episode is, I thought the WW2 Dalek one was worse.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:01
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This episode is just okay. I don't think it really deserves an F, but Occupation is an unpredictable man.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:05
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Android Blues posted:This episode is just okay. I don't think it really deserves an F, but Occupation is an unpredictable man. Yeah I think he got his expectations raised too high. The truly lovely episodes are much worse than this. Though I still hate the Silurian redesign. I recognise they needed an update, but they just look too human now.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:13
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Oxx's review hit the nail on the head for me I think, in that I don't hate this episode because it's so drat unmemorable. I don't remember a single thing about it except for a Silurian creeping about in the night, and I guess they captured her? Him? I don't remember the big red energy shield or Rory pretending to be a policeman, and I don't remember what the cliffhanger at the end was. The whole thing just slid off my brain like the top slice of bread slides off a big greasy sandwich.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:58
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Yeah, the classic design is unmistakably dated but it's clear some effort and thought went into it, which is what makes the modern version so disappointing - they just slapped some bumps and paint on a human face and said,"That'll do!" That they made those masks that bore some slight resemblance to the original design shows what might have been, though full masks like that which had to actually move and adjust with the actor's emoting might have been beyond their budget, they could at least have tried. But then it feels like this episode quite deservedly got the least amount of attention from the crew, because it was clearly the weakest story of the season. Maybe they just gave up and did the bare minimum so they could move on to the good stuff (which is unfair of me to say, and the actual crew would never be that unprofessional!)
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Jan 27, 2015 22:59
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MrL_JaKiri posted:This kind of experimental poo poo is what separates man from the animals
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Jan 27, 2015 23:19
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Sushi in Yiddish posted:BBC Composer: "Yes MORE banging on a piano and menacing kazoo, more off-putting synth stings!!" And nothing says Dalek like a saxophone. Random Stranger posted:It's not the kind of thing that I'd typically call out in the show since they are limited by BBC money, but this episode is just so underpopulated that it's noticeable.
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Jan 27, 2015 23:29
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I didn't give anything in this season less than a C because I thought there were no D or F episodes when compared to a D or F in RTD's run. I gave "Amy's Choice" a C because I remember actively not liking it when it aired and gave this episode a "B" because I thought it was just "meh;" not good or bad, just okay.
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Jan 28, 2015 00:59
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The Hungry Earth And crashing down we come, this episode is by a significant margin the least popular episode so far, with at least one of the two A guesses being someone who's deliberately going for last. Also Mo0 continues to guess wrong. A Stumiester Sighence B Regy Rusty Jakiri cargohills FreezingInferno Not a Twat M_Gargantua ??? Senerio Xenoborg umalt Prison Warden Stormgale egon_beeblebrox idonotlikepeas Sinestro f#a# Bunnita Colonel Cool Roach Warehouse Arsenic Lupin LabyaMynora Proposition Joe 30.5 Days RodShaft FewtureMD C Glenn_Beckett Organza Quiz BSam Random Stranger Burkion Gandalf21 Hewlett fatherboxx Pinwiz11 DoctorWhat Bobulus Blasmeister Juvenalian.Satyr Attitude Indicator mind the walrus cool kids inc. Grouchio death .cab for qt And More Paul.Power Mo0 Practical Demon Fungah! PurpleJesus 2house2fly docbeard Big Mean Jerk surc Jurgan SirSamVimes Fucknag adhuin Kevino07 Hannibal Smith BeefyTaco Go RV! Senor Tron WeirdSandwich Ohtsam thexerox123 ActionZero Jsor NeuroticLich D thrawn527 jng2058 Keisse J ewe2 Squalitude Smello Party Boat radmonger ThNextGreenLantern Andrew_1985 DetoxP John Charity Spring Jet Jaguar ThePlague-Daemon Captain Capitalism AndwhatIseeisme Noxville GonSmithe hcreight Irony Be My Shield F Tiggum Daedleh Rochallor Stobbit Legoman727 MikeJF Anonymouse Mook Howe_sam As you may have noticed this causes a bit of an upset in the scores as joes lead is taken from him, now Rochallor is in join first! Rochallor 4 Proposition Joe 4 Paul Power 5 John Charity Spring 5 Kevino07 5 MikeJF 5 Noxville 5 GonSmithe 5 Hewlett 6 jng2058 6 DoctorWhat 6 Stobbit 6 Attitude Indicator 6 Bunnita 6 DetoxP 6 SirSamVimes 6 BeefyTaco 6 thexerox123 6 Anonymouse Mook 6 Howe_sam 6 Cargohills 7 Organza 7 BSam 7 Daedleh 7 Gandalf21 7 stumeister 7 Not a Twat 7 Blasmeister 7 Xenoborg 7 Keisse J 7 Practical Demon 7 Docbeard 7 Big Mean Jerk 7 Hannibal Smith 7 WeirdSandwich 7 Regy Rusty 8 Random Stranger 8 Mind the walrus 8 Smello 8 Fungah! 8 PurpleJesus 8 LabyaMynora 8 ThePlague-Daemon 8 Ohtsam 8 ActionZero 8 hcreight 8 Pinwiz11 9 Bobulus 9 M Gargantua 9 Senario 9 cool kids inc. 9 ewe2 9 Prison Warden 9 Radmonger 9 2house2fly 9 f#a# 9 Jurgan 9 Colonel Cool 9 Jet Jaguar 9 Legoman727 9 Senor Tron 9 FewtureMD 9 thrawn257 10 FreezingInferno 10 ??? 10 Squalitude 10 Grouchio 10 And More 10 Stormgale 10 ThNextGreenLantern 10 Andrew_1985 10 Arsenic Lupin 10 adhuin 10 AndwhatIseeisme 10 Glenn_Beckett 11 egon_beeblebrox 11 Captain Capitalism 11 30.5 Days 11 Jsor 11 Burkion 12 fatherboxx 12 Fucknag 12 Go RV! 12 Jakari 13 death .cab for qt 13 Party Boat 13 NeuroticLich 13 Irony Be My Shield 13 Tiggum 14 Juvenalian Satyr 14 umalt 14 MoO 14 idonotlikepeas 14 surc 14 RodShaft 15 Sinestro 16 Roach Warehouse 16 Sighence 18
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Jan 28, 2015 14:23
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Wow, I really thought there would be more F's for this episode. I did a rewatch of the Smith era about a year back and this two-parter was the only one I couldn't make it through. I turned off this episode about half an hour in and skipped most of the next. Anyway, you and me Prop Joe, we're going all the way.
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Jan 28, 2015 15:03
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Rochallor posted:Wow, I really thought there would be more F's for this episode. I did a rewatch of the Smith era about a year back and this two-parter was the only one I couldn't make it through. I turned off this episode about half an hour in and skipped most of the next.
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Jan 28, 2015 15:17
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A 'B'!? Was I hallucinating when I sent in my guesses or something? I'm coming for you, Sighence!
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Jan 28, 2015 15:27
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Burkion posted:I appreciate the original design more even though I find it silly because it is infinitely more interesting. In early pre-production, the new Silurians were going to look much more like their 70s versions; http://www.thehiveforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=809&start=20 shows a design sculpture of one. They went instead for making something like the old Silurian's face be the warriors' masks, so the actors playing named Silurians could emote better through their makeup. Still should have kept the weird third eye, though, IMO.
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Jan 28, 2015 16:45
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Dave Brookshaw posted:In early pre-production, the new Silurians were going to look much more like their 70s versions; Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, just by looking at the poll you can tell that thread is horrific.
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Jan 28, 2015 16:58
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Didn't you know? Everything that is changed sucks, forever.
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Jan 28, 2015 17:07
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"Titlurians"
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Jan 28, 2015 17:27
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God what was I thinking when I voted C? I'm quite bad at this silly guessing game...
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Jan 28, 2015 18:14
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I am so hosed on my next guess.
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Jan 28, 2015 18:22
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Android Blues posted:This episode is just okay. I don't think it really deserves an F, but Occupation is an unpredictable man. Yeah. I think I'd say it is worthy of a shrug or a yawn. It's not awful but it's following some really good episodes, so it looks worse by comparison.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:40
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