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this review is gonna be " " personified, just warning you folks
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Sep 11, 2014 02:38
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If it's for the reason I think it is, we all felt the same way.
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Sep 11, 2014 02:46
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Haha, yep. Pretty much.
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Sep 11, 2014 03:12
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I rewatched all of season 3 not so long ago so I'm really interesting in seeing a first timer's reactions.
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Sep 11, 2014 03:13
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Doctor Who "Smith and Jones" Series 3, Episode 1 Time for some comedy history, folks. Back in the days when Abbott and Costello (essentially, the world's first ever "modern" comedy duo, and the duo that essentially invented every single comedic trope that comedic pairings use today), people were surprised when it was revealed that William "Bud" Abbott, and not Lou Costello, was the higher-paid one of the duo- according to some estimates, as much as twice as much as the latter. You see, for all intents and purposes, Costello was the star. The short, tubby man would quickly become a comedic icon, establishing himself as a global superstar that drew huge crowds. For all intents and purposes, he was the act; all the "memorable" comedic lines, all the outstanding physical comedy...those were the bits that Costello brought to the performance, in addition to essentially the concept of the "comic relief" character from scratch. When Abbott and Costello went to tour, Costello was the one with the rabid fans. So why was Abbott paid more? Well that's simple: It's harder to be a straight man. It's not an easy job, at all, to be the centralizing character in a bit, the put-upon, the sense of sanity that prevents the scene from spinning off into lunacy. It's not easy being comic relief, but it's easier. It's easy to ham it up, it's easy to be that big, bold, crazy memorable character that generates all the laughs by how mockably insane or stupid you are; it's infinitely harder to just keep the scene afloat. It's almost impossibly hard to do so and still generate laughs via more subtle or innocuous remarks, the sort of quick, more mature one-liners that can float past the silliness, the more, well, cerebral comedy. But it's what Abbott could do, and it's why he's arguably the greatest straight man in the history of comedy. It's also why he made more money; the sad fact is there's a lot of actors that could've been Costello, but Abbott, well, he was the act. Without him Costello's just a fat man who makes funny faces and falls a lot, and would've been a footnote in comedic history. All this is to say that straight men are, well, they're essential to comedic duos. And Martha Jones (Freema Agyeman), she's exactly what this show needed- a grounding force. The Doctor, especially the Tenth Doctor, especially David Tennant as the Tenth Doctor, is an absurd man. He operates solely in extremes, and although I have personally very much enjoyed his ludicrous antics, even by the end of his first season on the show his gimmick was getting a bit tired. The main problem I've found with Ten and his bit is is that there wasn't any balance to any of it in his run so far. The best part of the Abbott and Costello routine was the fact that Costello interacted with Abbott; it made his insanity funnier because he was bouncing off of the put-upon, the audience insert. With Ten, all he surrounded himself with were sycophants; Rose, in particular, always enabled him, and over the course of his first season he was essentially let loose to be his wild self, which just got old. There was some conflict between him and Donna, but it was all partially undercut because Donna is essentially just as weird and absurd as Ten, but in the opposite direction; it didn't have that comedic dimension of logical extremes over two exaggerated stereotypes bickering. Which is why Martha is such a great character. Freema Agyeman immediately inhabits the character, true- her acting chops cannot be overstated enough, especially when considering the fact that Billie Piper struggled in her role as Rose until the very, very end of her run. Even in her best moments, Piper was clearly struggling with the material she was given; in contrast, Agyeman is confidently in command of her character from her first moment onscreen. It helps, too, that Martha as written, at least at the beginning, is so refreshing. As a doctor herself (well- med student), she's immediately established as smart and competent, two aspects that Rose lacked for an entire season. Even beyond that, though, we get little scenes of why she would be initially attracted to, eventually, settling in with The Doctor on his intergalactic journey- for instance, when the hospital she works in gets transported to the Moon, she's able to puzzle out, by herself, that it should be safe to open the doors/windows since they weren't airtight in the first place and, well, everyone inside the hospital is already able to breathe. And then we come to how Martha interacts with The Doctor. As I've built up, she's the straight man, a dynamic we've never seen before on Doctor Who. Eccleston played The Doctor too wounded to be anywhere near "comedic", at most he was "clever", and again Tennant has had no real, sustained balancing force. So it's all the more refreshing that Martha is that sense of balance, and in doing so Agyeman brings out the very best in Tennant, in addition to making all of his weird quirks even funnier, by playing it so straight in their interactions. Because make no mistake, Martha Jones is a no-nonsense woman. She likes to have fun, and she even has that sense of wonder and joy in observing the universe that Rose, in her very best incarnation, was able to sell as a legitimate reason why she risked her life on the TARDIS week in and out (outside of her crush on The Doctor). But she's still a woman focused on accomplishing her goals and she doesn't give The Doctor much if any leeway, which makes for a fantastic dynamic as The Doctor almost exclusively functions in exploiting leeways. For instance, this exchange is all the greater and more hilarious due to Martha's unwillingness to descend to The Doctor's level: Martha: "You're completely mad." The Doctor: "You're right. I look daft with one shoe." And the follow-up joke- where Martha urges him to stop whining about his burnt screwdriver, leading to the fantastic physical bit of The Doctor carelessly tossing the Sonic Screwdriver over his shoulder -is utterly fantastic too. For once, the show has a balanced dynamic and as a result the Doctor-Companion interactions are incredible right from the start. It's stuff like that that makes Martha arguably more well-rounded in her initial episode than Rose ever was, and really makes me want to keep on watching the show. I've argued before the inherently sexist nature of Doctor Who, and it's so refreshing to see RTD, apparently, throwing out all the real complaints about why Rose was a regressive and terrible character (at least in season one) and crafting one who feels progressive and real in a way that Rose, even at her best, never really was. So it's all the more frustrating when the episode rather falls again at its end. To be fair, it was on shaky ground to start with: Most of the episode, itself, consists of The Doctor and Martha ineffectually running down hallways in the hospital. Like...there's literally a minute-long sequence in the middle of the episode that is just The Doctor and Martha being chased through hallways that becomes almost comedically overlong. And the main antagonist- Florence Finnegan (Anne Reid), a "plasmavore" (read: vampire), is so hammy that she becomes annoying, that sort of "bad" camp that Who often inhabits. Really, the episode as a whole just feels so unfocused. There's too many threats- beside Florence, we have the race of space rhino cops that are willing to EXECUTE people at the drop of a hat, the Judoon, that angrily stomp through the episode, the fact that the hospital is quickly running out of air, and the weird magnet bomb thing in the climax that seems to only exist so the episode can make its requisite "The Earth is in danger" statement despite the story being set on the moon. It's just kind of an unfocused mess of an episode, and although in concept I really like an episode where The Doctor has to manage "factions" (ala Doomsday, where he even temporarily makes an alliance with the Cybermen!), in execution it makes the episode as a whole feel rather schizophrenic as we constantly flit between stakes both unbearably large (the magnet bomb), and personal (Florence's vampirism). But all that is backseat to the fact that ultimately, the biggest sin this episode commits is selling out its straight man, Martha. Martha, up until the final tennish minutes of the episode, was a fantastic, varied, interesting character that brought a new, needed dynamic to The Doctor, but once The Doctor kissed her (and we get that reaction shot of Martha being surprised but impressed by the kiss, leading in to her checking out The Doctor as he runs away, smile on her face- I mean, she even says incredulously "That was nothing?!" after -it's just...it's just. Martha deserves better than this. Martha deserves better than this. RTD, you somehow accidentally created a female character that was distinct and interesting to Rose and you immediately have her go through the EXACT SAME ARC as her?! WHAT?! Dude, RTD, even if Rose's romantic arc was done well (which it sure as hell Was. loving. Not.), this would be a bad move just because it would be treading the exact same ground that Series 1 and 2 over and overexplored. But Rose's romantic arc was, as a whole, done so loving badly that you, well, you salted the earth man. You cannot, you must not go back to those beats, but I have a really bad feeling that we're gonna go through the exact same motions of Martha falling for The Doctor again, which is even worse this time around because Martha is such a good loving character by such a great actress. Martha has so much farther to fall than Rose ever did, and I feel like this season's bottom is gonna hurt all the worse because of how much I really like Martha. She doesn't deserve this, RTD. She doesn't deserve this. Even then, it's all the weirder that after clearly telegraphing her developing feelings for The Doctor, it's so bizarre that the episode spends so much time running away from it- I mean, Martha even says herself, at the very end of the episode, "For the record, I'm not remotely interested. I only go for humans." But even as she says it, we get that look of Martha contemplating whether it would be worth it to break her "only humans" rule for The Doctor, so it's as if RTD himself is waffling over whether or not he wants to make Martha's crush on The Doctor A Thing. It's...I just, I dunno. This episode as a whole feels like RTD has no real idea whether or not he wants to leave the Rose era of the show behind, so constantly switches between making Martha a good, individual, unique character (which he absolutely should do), and putting her in the exact same position as Rose inhabited (which he absolutely shouldn't). So we get scenes like Martha using all of her medical skills in reviving The Doctor so he can unplug something, an act that Martha herself could have easily done, especially since she herself saw Florence literally plugging the magnet bomb thing together. The resolution just cheapens Martha's character as a whole, essentially reducing her to the Rose role of Doctor Enabler when she had, up until that point, been her own person, willing to do her own thing. It's a move that, to me, signifies what the rest of this season as a whole plans on doing with Martha: Cheapening her character and having her grow more and more obsessed with The Doctor until she's virtually unrecognizeable as anything other than a Rose clone. And, well, I dunno if I can take that abuse again. I just want to like your show, Russel T. Davies. Please stop making that impossible. Please. Stop. Grade: D Random Thoughts:
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Sep 11, 2014 04:08
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Toxxupation posted:All this is to say that straight men are, well, they're essential to comedic duos. And Martha Jones (Freema Agyeman), she's exactly what this show needed- a grounding force. When my great works are complete, Occupation, and you open a mysterious package only to find that it contains a CD of Jubilee and a hand-written note with the words "I WIN" srawled dementedly upon it in what looks like carrot juice... Mark my words, Occ, you are going to love Doctor Evelyn Smythe. In all seriousness, I feel mostly the same way about Martha, especially as seen in this introductory episode. DoctorWhat fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 04:15
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I remember how refreshing it was having a new companion come along who had real world skills and smarts and would be able to hold her own against the Doctor.
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Sep 11, 2014 04:21
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I was spoiled on Martha and Season 3 up front due to the nature of "BLINK OMG YOU MUST WATCH BLIIIIIIIIIIIIINK" that permeated Whovian culture for like three whole seasons after Blink aired, combined with the general "work backwards" nature of catching up to Doctor Who I followed, but yeah I can definitely relate to what you're saying Oxx even if most of those conclusions are ones I had to arrive at in retrospect.
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Sep 11, 2014 04:27
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I've been waiting for your reaction to Martha's immediate rehash of Rose's lovely, horrible arc for so long, and it was everything I could have dreamed 
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Sep 11, 2014 04:29
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Toxxupation posted:Doctor Who Her first victim is named Stoker. 
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Sep 11, 2014 04:30
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Oxx, considering your initial disdain for the show and your complete lack of background to the series, it's really fascinating seeing you come to a lot of the same conclusions that so many of the regular viewers in the other threads came to as they watched. I absolutely agree that RTD made a huge misstep with Martha, he introduces a character who is smart, competent and level-headed and then by the end of this episode he's retreading ground he's already worn out through the first two seasons with Rose. It was a huge disservice to Martha (and, more importantly, Freema) and immediately hobbled her right out of the gate, and I'm looking forward to see how you feel about her characterization throughout the rest of the season because Lord knows I've gone on and on about it myself in the past. Edit: Oh and seriously, RTD just had to put the entire planet in peril AGAIN. He always seems so scared about the scale of the stakes involved in an episode, like an entire hospital full of innocent people being teleported to the moon and slowly suffocating to death something wasn't enough to be compelling to the viewers. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 04:30
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Martha is my favorite companion and so much about her treatment angers me, like, a lot. I'll try not to post about it too much though. What really gets me about this episode is that the entire loving thing the Doctor flirts unabashedly with Martha. Every thing he does the entire time in the hospital gives every indication that he's super into her. The Doctor knows what kissing is and what it means. He could have just licked her face but instead... nope he kisses her. And then once he knows he has her interest and decides he wants her around, he throws up the "oh but I'm totally not interested. You're dumb for even thinking I might be" stuff. He's an unbelievable rear end in a top hat with Martha's emotions right from the get-go.
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Sep 11, 2014 04:35
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I think having someone who--by Doctor standards--was a pretty boy really went to RTD's head and he decided to play to the most raucuous and horny pits of fandom, maybe those demographics buy a ton more lovely merch. Who knows.
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Sep 11, 2014 04:36
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Maybe the problem is just that Tennant is so fuckin sexy that RTD doesn't think it would be realistic not to fall in love with him edit: should have refreshed, hi5 walrus
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Sep 11, 2014 04:39
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Soothing Vapors posted:Maybe the problem is just that Tennant is so fuckin sexy that RTD doesn't think it would be realistic not to fall in love with him I genuinely think this was the case. RTD wanted to bone Tennant so much he had to project that. Except onto Catherine Tate because she was like 40 and ick get your old wrinkles away from my pretty baby doctor
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Sep 11, 2014 04:41
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Doctor Who "Smith and Jones" Series 3, Episode 1 I'll be candid, folks - I broke my own Golden Rule on this season. Occ asked me for a now-traditional pre-season "pep talk" going into Season 3, and I was ready for it. Determined not to have my memory mislead me again, I did a quick skim of most episodes and concluded that yes, this was more or less exactly as bad as I remembered. So I told him what I'm telling you now. I call this next thirteen-episode stretch the "breakup season," and, like so many other things in Davies' run, it has to do with Rose. Bereft of his muttery blonde muse, Davies is now left without the story tempo he'd managed to hit, albeit with mixed success, in Season 2. Rose started off as a loving clown in Eccleston's tenure but eventually became acclimated to the Doctor's antics just by sticking around with him for so long, which allowed her some degree of agency and familiarity with each episode's structure. Now that she's gone, Davies has to start all over again, and for much of this season, instead of trying to, you know, take risks or do anything interesting, he'll just waste our time wishing he had Rose back. The need for Rose bleeds through in every episode, in events, in unspoken dialogue, in actually spoken dialogue; I read on these forums once that Rose basically becomes Doctor Who's Poochie, and that's a bit harsh but still on the mark. Even when Davies' pet is locked away in another dimension (with her fabulously rich and happy family, just have to reiterate), we still can't have the show shut up about her. Davies' post-Rose anxiety, coupled with some outrageously bad/dull scripts by other writers, make Season 3 a long row to hoe. I told Occ that the third episode I skipped in all of Doctor Who is in this season, along with the only one where I simply gave up in disgust. "Smith and Jones" doesn't approach the slithering depths of either of those episodes (or, for that matter, several others in this season), but it's still a dull trudge for many of the reasons Occupation mentioned - the central plot isn't compelling, there's too many threats and none of them mesh, none of the villains interest or entertain, the Judoon's makeup is rubbish, the Slabs' presence is inexplicable, the extras are all lousy actors, CPR DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY, etc, etc. But let's put that aside from now. Who's this lady? A NEW COMPANION APPROACHES: MARTHA JONES The lovely Ms. Jones, played with a sort of perky exasperation by Freema Agyeman (her first and possibly only major role - her career before this point consisted of bit parts and soap operas) exemplifies the issues with Season 3. She's an active, dynamic, intelligent character, an easy-going straight man to the Doctor, and a sharp departure from the Companion of the last two seasons. Unfortunately, that's only half her character. The other half is "she's not Rose," and Davies is loving obsessed with it. If I had to single out a defining character trait for Martha, it's that she is a PROFESSIONAL and she BEHAVES LIKE ONE. We see that right from the start, as she deftly juggles the various grievances between her fractured family on her way to work (a sharp departure from Rose, who could barely handle her single mother and jelly-spined man-servant). She's a med student who takes her work seriously, and adapts quickly to the "alien rhino moon abduction" scenario that takes place in her hospital. She figures out in seconds what the Doctor's blood-drinking gambit had been in the end of the episode, and takes the opportunity to expose Finnegan to the Judoon's comically Robocop-ish brand of justice. Whereas Rose spent her entire first season in one long, extended pratfall, Martha is a self-supervising force of nature when the chips are down, to the point where she could probably solo some of the Doctor's plots if she figured out how to work his screwdriver. But despite what the Doctor says before letting her into the TARDIS, Martha is absolutely a "rebound" Companion, and it shows from the moment she and the Doctor meet. There are obvious moments of "Rose replacement" that Occupation mentioned - her dreamy reaction to the Doctor's kiss, her ambivalent feelings of attraction to the Doctor himself, the fact that the Doctor has already denied that she's Rose 2.0 and that is totally protesting too much - but the nature of Martha's recruitment is also unusual and speaks to Davies' desperation now that he's without his author's pet. Companions, at least to the best of my knowledge, tend to be people who impress the Doctor through sheer happenstance; he's off doing Doctor-y things and someone handles themselves around him so deftly, and with the right mix of admiration and idealism, that he gives them a lift on his magic wooden time machine. It happened with Rose, who was just some girl in a department store when the Doctor ran into her, and with Donna, who evolved from a howling distraction to a competent partner and moral compass in the space of one day. Martha's meeting with the Doctor, on the other hand, feeling more like a deliberate recruitment; when the hospital blips onto the Moon he's clearly testing her, feeling out her responses and reactions to the situation to see if she's make a fitting Rose I mean Companion. You can almost hear Davies' hand frantically slapping around London trying to grip a new Companion so he can slot them into Rose's place and get the machines started up again. It's a beginning that seems innocent enough at first, but a little deflating when viewed under close scrutiny. Even worse is the episode's denouement, which almost had Occ fooled until I pointed out that Martha had literally brought the Doctor back from the dead in order to pull a single bright red plug that Martha himself had watched Finnegan connect. That whole scene kneecaps Martha's competence, not just as a Companion but also as a doctor, because CPR DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. Even typical Hollywood CPR doesn't work that way! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CIRCULATORY SYSTEM! What, did Martha think beating his chest would make the Doctor's blood come back? What kind of med student is she? Does Davies not know a single thing about medicine, or did he simply need a quick n' dirty deus ex machina to wrap up that idiotic magnet-bomb conceit he'd slapped together? It's an absolute car accident of conflicting plotlines and Martha's credibility is the smoldering carcass in the center of it. GOD. I think we're in for a rollercoaster ride this time, horrible friends. Season 3 has ups, but it also has deep, deep downs, and Martha herself is symbolic of the issues the forthcoming scripts will display. Say a prayer for the two of us, and hope we can master the stupidities that lie ahead.
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Sep 11, 2014 04:50
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Soothing Vapors posted:Maybe the problem is just that Tennant is so fuckin sexy that RTD doesn't think it would be realistic not to fall in love with him This is a possibility I had never considered and it would explain so much. Also I watched this episode on the very same day I'd watched the previous 3, so seeing Freema Agyeman show up again as a new character made me do a ridiculous and comical double take and a bunch of furious googling. Regy Rusty fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 04:52
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Oh Wow. Look at you citing Abbot and Costello instead of the much stronger tradition of British double acts, which dates back just as long but essentially continued until the eighties (or nineties, depending on how you count it). Seriously the name's even a reference to what is arguably the last of the traditional double-acts, Mel Smith and Griff Jones, whose show had its last series in '98.
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Sep 11, 2014 04:53
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Republican Vampire posted:Oh Wow. Look at you citing Abbot and Costello instead of the much stronger tradition of British double acts, which dates back just as long but essentially continued until the eighties (or nineties, depending on how you count it). Seriously the name's even a reference to what is arguably the last of the traditional double-acts, Mel Smith and Griff Jones, whose show had its last series in '98. We're not British. One of us is Californian and the other's from New Jersey. We're about as far from Britain as Americans can get without tossing tea into the Boston Harbor.
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Sep 11, 2014 04:55
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Oxxidation posted:We're not British. One of us is Californian and the other's from New Jersey. We're about as far from Britain as Americans can get without tossing tea into the Boston Harbor. I'm not British either. I'm from Alberta. I just think that context is important and one of the things that Rusty often does is situate the Doctor and his companions in situations out of vintage comedy. Especially since a lot of his style as a showrunner leans on the contrast between farce and melodrama. Also a lot of the British double acts are kind of a big deal? Fry & Laurie and Mitchell and Webb in particular stand out as old fashioned acts that've seen some success on this side of the sea. e: I kinda studied TV in school. So maybe I'm too focused on rigor-- but it just seems weird not to acknowledge the line that this episode (and the fourth series premiere, when it happens) draw to vintage comedy. I mean it's conspicuous and it's part of the broader conversation. If you're going to bring in the context of a US double act and make it the seeming focal point of your review, why not spend ten minutes or less looking at the IMDB or Wikipedia page for said episode? It just points to a lack of rigor or attention. Republican Vampire fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 05:00
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Oxxidation posted:Bereft of his muttery blonde muse... Can you post in spoiler tag what the two eps from this season you hate so much are? I'm really curious because there's only one ep I can think of that wasn't good.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:01
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Soothing Vapors posted:Hahahaha. These writeups are extremely theraputic. No. I want it to be a surprise.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:03
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Oxxidation posted:No. I want it to be a surprise. Haha, fair enough.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:06
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Oxxidation posted:The other half is "she's not Rose," Amen. Defining her by what she's NOT does not work to define what she IS, which seems to be RTD's major problem post-Rose's departure. An argument can be made for the value of the first real exploration that the series ever had of the Doctor dealing with the messy aftermath of a valued companion's departure, but not if it comes at the expense of the new companion themselves.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:06
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Regy Rusty posted:Also I watched this episode on the very same day I'd watched the previous 3, so seeing Freema Agyeman show up again as a new character made me do a ridiculous and comical double take and a bunch of furious googling. Has there ever been as "quick" a turnaround on bit actors getting into major Who roles? I mean yeah we have Karen Gillian and Peter Capaldi and of course Colin Baker, but seriously Agyeman goes from one part to another literally from episode to episode. Sure there was a season break between but I still think that has to be a record. Also I want to say so much more on Martha but yeah, spoilers. Y'all should take it easy on the comments too, I imagine this season is going to be a long ride. I can think of at least three episodes I cannot wait for Oxx to get to
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Sep 11, 2014 05:12
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My first reaction was actually wondering if she was in fact the same character, but then I remembered that she'd died so I was really confused.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:14
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Republican Vampire posted:e: I kinda studied TV in school. A thousand apologies for not justifying your wasted credit hours, nerd.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:16
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mind the walrus posted:Has there ever been as "quick" a turnaround on bit actors getting into major Who roles? I mean yeah we have Karen Gillian and Peter Capaldi and of course Colin Baker, but seriously Agyeman goes from one part to another literally from episode to episode. Sure there was a season break between but I still think that has to be a record. Lalla Ward as Astra and then Romana! That was back-to-back episodes (with a few months' break in between), although they did give it an in-universe explanation.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:19
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Is it revealing too much to say that I think most of this season is complete garbage and that as a result Martha (though through no fault of the character) is my least favorite of the companions? In Smith and Jones I really did like the Judoon. They're cool Jim Hensony stumpy aliens. Oxxidation posted:Martha's meeting with the Doctor, on the other hand, feeling more like a deliberate recruitment; when the hospital blips onto the Moon he's clearly testing her, feeling out her responses and reactions to the situation to see if she's make a fitting Rose I mean Companion. You can almost hear Davies' hand frantically slapping around London trying to grip a new Companion so he can slot them into Rose's place and get the machines started up again. You know, this made me wonder, maybe the Doctor's curiosity got piqued by Martha when she talked about running into Future him on the street at the start of the episode. Therefore he knew that there was something about Martha that caught his eye and he had to see what that was.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:23
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Oxxidation posted:A thousand apologies for not justifying your wasted credit hours, nerd. That doesn't even make ironic sense when you're part of a comic double act posting overlong recaps of Doctor Who.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:23
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Republican Vampire posted:If you're going to bring in the context of a US double act and make it the seeming focal point of your review, why not spend ten minutes or less looking at the IMDB or Wikipedia page for said episode? It just points to a lack of rigor or attention. I'd rather hear Occ's reactions to it as an episode of television, not as a research project. If he personally draws connections to a double act that he is familiar with, that's more interesting to hear then him talking about whatever rote background information is already out there for the episode. Do you refuse to talk to your friends about episodes of television until they've read the wikipedia pages for them for all the relevant context? thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 05:23
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thexerox123 posted:I'd rather hear Occ's reactions to it as an episode of television, not as a research project. If he personally draws connections to a double act that he is familiar with, that's more interesting to hear then him talking about whatever rote background information is already out there for the episode. I don't want a research project either. I want what passes for a basic level of reflection in space year 2014. What makes "This is what I saw" more desirable than "This is what I saw, This is what people said, Here's what I think" ? E: To be clear, I think that this thread's more about the latter than the former. I think it's never been just "Here's what I think". A lot of it's been about reacting to what the fandom says or to other stuff in pop culture. So it bugs me when there's an obvious blind spot like that. I dunno. I'm dumb. Republican Vampire fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 05:28
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Hey oxx doctor who's on first
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Sep 11, 2014 05:28
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Toxxupation posted:Hey oxx doctor who's on first uuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggh 
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Sep 11, 2014 05:33
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Republican Vampire posted:What makes "This is what I saw" more desirable than "This is what I saw, This is what people said, Here's what I think" ? If he starts going to IMDB and wiki pages for episodes, he's going to get spoilers.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:34
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Toxxupation posted:Hey oxx doctor who's on first Right in his face even? That's rude man. You could have at least gone with the famous routine by Smith and Jones, Is That My Crumpet?
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Sep 11, 2014 05:34
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thexerox123 posted:If he starts going to IMDB and wiki pages for episodes, he's going to get spoilers. That's true, and that does spoil the nature of the thread. I'm probably just getting my hackles up because I'm dumb.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:35
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thexerox123 posted:If he starts going to IMDB and wiki pages for episodes.... ....then his transformation into a giant Doctor Who nerd will be complete 
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Sep 11, 2014 05:37
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He's got a point, the lack of rigor in this thread is very disappointing. I'm not even sure this publication is peer reviewed
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Sep 11, 2014 05:40
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Regy Rusty posted:My first reaction was actually wondering if she was in fact the same character, but then I remembered that she'd died so I was really confused. It was pretty jarring, but they did have a throwaway line about her having a sister that died in that building.
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Sep 11, 2014 05:42
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