Combatting Eurocentrism: Let's Play Victoria II outside of Europe!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Combatting Eurocentrism: Let's Play Victoria II outside of Europe!

«‹›14 »

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

Didn't we just have a Patter Song Let's Play of Victoria II?

Yes, yes you did. The thread's here. We played as Bavaria and had a great time with it. You can read the OP of that thread to see what we're getting up to and what exactly this game is.

So...why the new thread?

Because we're starting a new campaign.

Again?

Well, last game we played as an initially-landlocked German cultural powerhouse that transformed into a multiethnic European socialist monarchical landpower and spent most of the game worrying about European Great Power politics. Until the last few years of the game we didn't have a navy and we never had a colony! We didn't see half of what this game has to offer.

So what's going to be different this time?

The list of starting countries. Like last time, they're all 1836 start vanilla scenarios, although two of the proposals are countries that aren't normally independent at game start that we're releasing as satellites of their parent countries for fun. None of these countries are in Europe, and three out of the six proposals begin the game as "uncivs."

Unciv? That...seems...Eurocentric to the point of racism.

Well, it is a game about the 19th century, a time when much of Africa and Asia were divvied up and conquered in relatively short order between 1870 and the end of the 19th century. Hopefully, we'll fare a bit better than some of these countries' IRL counterparts.

So, who do we have?

Here are six choices:

A. Bolivia

Every one of Bolivia's neighbors want it dead, with the possible, sometimes exception of its supposed partner Peru. V2 decided to represent Peru-Bolivia as two independent states that are allied, which actually makes a lot of sense, given that there was no real depth to the union that broke up in 1839. Argentina wants land from Bolivia, Paraguay wants land from Bolivia, Chile wants land from Bolivia, and Brazil wants land from Bolivia, and these countries have no problem in putting aside their grudges against each other to destroy Bolivia first. Bolivia, in turn, has cores on some of Argentina's northern territories and a pretty good resource base, but is deeply underpopulated and has a dictatorship that is rather unattractive for immigration. Can Bolivia overcome deeply hostile neighbors and its severe underpopulation to emerge as the great power of South America, or is it destined to become a poor, landlocked backwater?

Pros: cores on Argentina
A solid resource base
In the Americas, can theoretically become a major immigration magnet if you do something about the dictatorship.
Is civilized (wouldn't normally be a pro, but just scroll down and you'll see why it's on the list)

Cons: Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and, when it's feeling gutsy, Paraguay will all come at you for the land they are under the mistaken assumption belongs to them.
Starts out dirt-poor and with next to no people, and the constant warfare in the early game will reduce the population even further, rather hard to build an economic base with a depopulated wasteland.
Low literacy and low starting techs.

B. Zulu

Zulu is not the hardest start in Victoria II. After all, Tripoli exists! Zulu's highly militarized society gives it a starting army of nine brigades of Irregulars, which is...not going to be enough to fend off either Britain or Portugal. Nor is Zulu's possession of the tier 1 Tactics tech, a nice nod to its martial tradition, going to save Zulu. To succeed as Zulu requires skill and luck, and neither will do the trick on its own. However, with said luck, we can turn into a power more formidable than Shaka Zulu ever dreamed.

Pros: Weak civs in Oranje and Transvaal to conquer for research points and increased economic base...gold in Transvaal!
Literacy at ~6%...could be worse.
Highly militarized, Transvaal and Oranje don't stand a chance.

Cons: Portugal.
The UK.
Unciv.
This LP might be on the short side.

C. Afghanistan

Afghanistan has a lot going for it. Cores on its neighbors Punjab and Bukhara, a large army, exceptionally high literacy for an unciv (18%!), and neither Russia nor Britain are interested in going after you until you actually border them. The downside is that Persia wants your sweet, sweet, literate states, so we may have to fend off the Persians, and once we do civ we'll still be boxed in between Russia and Britain, planning some sort of third way.

Pros: Stunningly literate for an unciv.
Stronger than any of its regional rivals except Persia.
Plenty of expansion targets.

Cons: Russian Empire serves as a hard barrier to northern expansion, British India to eastern, the Ottomans to western even if we decide to start conquering Persia, which seems like madness.
Unciv.

D. Johore

Have you ever read The Hobbit? Do you remember the descriptions of the Lonely Mountain? Filled with gold, treasures beyond one's wildest imaginations, but guarded by a dangerous dragon? Johore is...not that. Johore is the Lonely Mountain but guarded by a sleepy, anemic paraplegic hobbit. Johore sits on endless wealth, but it is weak as a newborn child at first and both the Dutch and the British want our gold. Can we grow into a powerful Malay powerhouse that can defend Southeast Asia from (outside) imperial predation?

Pro: Gold, Tropical wood, Rubber. Cores in Siam for more of same.
Primary culture targets in Brunei and Aceh.

Con: Almost no people, almost no military.
Need boats to get places, and boats can be hard to get when you're an unciv.
Dutch and British are after our gold!
2% Literacy.

E. Australia as British Dominion!

You can either fully release countries or release them as satellites and dominions, and Australia here is the latter. As a part of the British Empire it will be unable to declare war or conduct its own diplomacy. It will, however, be able to colonize. It's also in Oceania and as such has access to New World-ish immigration figures. From a humble beginning, Australia will dominate all of Southeast Asia.

Pros: Civ
Starts out with all of Britain's starting techs
Starts out with a ton of political reforms
Has a ton of potential.

Cons: Will need to become independent of Britain to really get going.

F. Philippines as Spanish Dominion!

Basically a junior version of Australia. Starts out with Spanish starting techs, which aren't as nice as the British ones but are still pretty good. Has a real starting population and some Iron so its not doomed industrially.

Pros: Civ.
Starts out with Spain's starting techs.
Starts out with a ton of political reforms.
Unable to colonize quite as well as Australia does due to position.

Cons: Will need to become independent of Spain to get really going.

Table of Contents

Zulu run 1 Annexed!

Zulu Chapter I: Really? Zulu? (1836)

Zulu Run 2

Zulu Take II Chapter I: Four Spears on the Edge of a Cliff (1836-1846)
Zulu Take II Chapter II: The Zulu-Transvaal War (1846-1862)

Bonus Chapter

How to Start As Mexico

Patter Song fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Sep 13, 2014

# ? Aug 5, 2014 00:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 26, 2024 11:33

Empress Theonora: Feb 19, 2001; She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.

F. Philippines as Spanish Dominion! All the interesting parts of Australia without being as much of a cakewalk.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 00:48

ZearothK: Aug 25, 2008; I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

F. That is what she said.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 00:50

mcclay: Jul 8, 2013; Oh dear oh gosh oh darn; Soiled Meat

# ? Aug 5, 2014 00:51

ThatBasqueGuy: Feb 14, 2013; someone introduce jojo to lazyb

Zulu

# ? Aug 5, 2014 00:51

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

B!

Let's kick the hell out of the brits!

# ? Aug 5, 2014 00:53

sniper4625: Sep 26, 2009; Loyal to the hEnd

F is for Friends who do stuff together.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 00:53

Hutter: Feb 16, 2011; It's been giving me nightmares.

E! Come on in all! We aren't full yet.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 00:54

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

F. Spain would not be the Western power I'd be worried about dealing with as the Philippines, however...

# ? Aug 5, 2014 00:55

sheep-dodger: Feb 21, 2013

Gotta go with F for Filipino supremacy.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 00:55

LordGugs: Oct 16, 2012

God this is a tough decision, I vote for c. Afghanistan seems like a tough but exciting play through. Afghanistan if lucky could be a powerhouse over South Asia.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 00:56

Blackunknown: Oct 18, 2013

# ? Aug 5, 2014 01:04

unwantedplatypus: Sep 6, 2012

Lets be a non-white power that does something other than get colonized! B

# ? Aug 5, 2014 01:10

Dry Hump: Sep 14, 2013

A for glorious Bolivia.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 01:24

Yaoi Gagarin: Feb 20, 2014

C. They don't call it the Graveyard of Empires for nothing! :black101:

# ? Aug 5, 2014 01:32

Preid: May 22, 2014

D. Johore, because they are the least respected nation on that list and it would literally only be up from there! Well, that is unless you get invaded by a European power such as Greece or something.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 01:35

Lost Season: Nov 28, 2013

Zulu sounds like it would be great fun.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 01:45

Drakyn: Dec 26, 2012

B, Zulu. If it's as short as you're worried, hold another vote after!

# ? Aug 5, 2014 01:49

Ratoslov: Feb 15, 2012; Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

D. Johore, because I have never heard of them. They're Malay, I hear? Good luck with that!

# ? Aug 5, 2014 02:01

TheFlyingLlama: Jan 2, 2013; You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and be a llama?

F

As long as this ends with the Filipinos colonizing the U.S.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 02:02

Zeron: Oct 23, 2010

A, Bolivia. As a nation beset on every single side by enemies(don't be fooled by Peru they're after you too), they're like the single best country in the Americas if you actually ever want to get any warfare done.

Zulu is fun but you can run into the British wall quite quickly and it's uncertain if you'll ever be strong enough to tackle them.

Afghanistan is also fun, but there's nowhere really fun to expand to as them.

Johore is a really fun game but you never really get the population to do all that much until after you take Java from the Dutch and that can take a long time.

Australia is just too powerful for an LP.

Philippines has potential but it's also a rather isolated position and Spain usually doesn't get dragged into all that many wars so it'd involve a lot of sitting there and doing nothing for long periods of time.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 02:06

Agean90: Jun 28, 2008

B. Always gently caress over the UK. And if worst comes to worst you can just start playing as the runner up, who hopefully is also capable of screwing over the Brits.

# ? Aug 5, 2014 02:09