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theblastizard posted:Was there any basis for giving Afghanistan 18% literacy? I have no idea.
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Aug 7, 2014 19:14
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theblastizard posted:Was there any basis for giving Afghanistan 18% literacy? I've been going through the history of the area, and I've not found anything that stands out. At game start, the nation is a key battleground in the Anglo-Russian 'Great Game', with a British-backed monarch over whom they would go to war two years in. British and Russian influence, maybe? No concrete idea.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:19
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The literacy outside of the western nations seems done at random quite frankly. The Kingdom of Hawai'i has ridiculous literacy if I recall correctly.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:24
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Funky Valentine posted:The literacy outside of the western nations seems done at random quite frankly. That's kind of historically based. Hawai'i had a tiny population when it was "discovered," and increasing literacy is far easier in a tiny country with fewer than 100,000 people, and the missionaries actually took a lot of effort to teach the Hawai'ians the cool new written language they invented for Hawai'i. The 80+% is obviously excessive, but literacy did skyrocket.
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Aug 8, 2014 04:10
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Can I vote for a future bolivia play through after your Zulu victory?
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Aug 8, 2014 06:09
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theblastizard posted:Was there any basis for giving Afghanistan 18% literacy? I looked through a few Wikipedia pages, and they all seem more concerned with Afghanistan's foreign relations during this period. Before this there was apparently the Durrani empire, which also didn't have much of anything indicating anyone in the area of modern-day Afghanistan gave a single poo poo about literacy. So I'm out of ideas. Maybe that part of Afghanistan is just... special in that regard?
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Aug 8, 2014 17:31
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F for my homeland! Mabuhay ang Pilipinas!
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Aug 8, 2014 18:53
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Ghost Stromboli posted:I looked through a few Wikipedia pages, and they all seem more concerned with Afghanistan's foreign relations during this period. Before this there was apparently the Durrani empire, which also didn't have much of anything indicating anyone in the area of modern-day Afghanistan gave a single poo poo about literacy. So I'm out of ideas. Maybe that part of Afghanistan is just... special in that regard? Hm? I was under the impression Durrani was super-literary because LastSword's mod of it in Civ V is that your great writers give Treatise culture as soon as they're born which means they're functionally worth double, and they also all come with unique quotes of Afghan literature, while their building is also an amphitheater that gives some defense and happiness if it's built up so you're encouraged to spew out cities everywhere but then go and make them all cultural. Maybe I'll have to ask him about it but that seems very under the mindset of 'Afghanistan is all about the wording' and that has to come from somewhere, right?
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Aug 8, 2014 20:05
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Aw, missed the vote but I guess another one for F wouldn't have made a difference. Really glad to see this thread, Patter Song. You did an absolutely great job with the last one. I agree with the other poster who mentioned this was a good opportunity to discuss mechanics more - even people who have played Vicky II might not have ever played a nation like Zulu. Plus to be frank you did such a great job with some of the in-character Bavaria updates I'm not sure how you could top them. Are you still planning to give occasional choices to the thread, or would all the choices for Zulu be "Do you want to do X, or die?"
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Aug 8, 2014 23:01
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CatsPajamas posted:Are you still planning to give occasional choices to the thread, or would all the choices for Zulu be "Do you want to do X, or die?" The latter. Update will probably come tonight...but I have a lot of images to edit. There's a certain thrill in knowing that your fate isn't actually in your hands that a lot of people don't really truly appreciate, IMO. Zulu is exciting.
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Aug 9, 2014 00:04
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Gyra_Solune posted:Hm? I was under the impression Durrani was super-literary because LastSword's mod of it in Civ V is that your great writers give Treatise culture as soon as they're born which means they're functionally worth double, and they also all come with unique quotes of Afghan literature, while their building is also an amphitheater that gives some defense and happiness if it's built up so you're encouraged to spew out cities everywhere but then go and make them all cultural. This is probably it. The entry on the Durrani empire looked a little short, so I think the article itself is just lacking. Can't say I know much about the place and its history aside from the wars, the opium, and women once being allowed to go to school.
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Aug 9, 2014 16:44
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http://www.amazon.com/Games-without-Rules-Often-Interrupted-Afghanistan/dp/B00BFQLP6G This is a decent history of Afghanistan from Durrani's rise to present, but I believe Afghanistan's flourishing literary culture was a 10th-11th century thing, because it's certainly not present in this time period.
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Aug 9, 2014 17:46
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Zulu Chapter I: Zulu? Really? Zulu? (1836) Welcome to Victoria II, what I see when I load up Zulu 1836. Terrain mapmode will be the first thing to go, of course. I've never gotten why Greece has a decision it can enact on literally the first day of the game.  "Empty" provinces have a "liferating" that determines what tech is necessary to colonize a province, and countries ranked #16 and up can colonize. 35 or higher means you can do it straight from the start, and Portugal is using this as an opportunity to seize the Zambezi while France grabs the Comoros Islands. If I were the Portuguese player, I'd make a grab for the Comoros first, making France compete for it. Zambezi's landlocked behind Portuguese territory, if you can grab Comoros first, you can grab Zambezi later at your leisure, and if you don't get the Comoros you're no worse off than you'd usually be.  Let's meet our neighbors. To the north are the Portuguese, with their impressive holdings in Mozambique. Portugal's East Africa holdings are bordered to the south by us, and the Boer state of Transvaal (light green) and to the north by the Swahili holdings of Oman. Portugal usually wars with Oman for those lands, but going south to take on Zulu is a (scary) possibility.   The Boer republics are pathetic, low-population, with very few actual Boers. Transvaal will eventually get some gold and is the larger of the two. Oranje Freistaat must be taken out before Britain gets to "Friendly" influence with them, after which point Britain will intercede in any attempt to conquer them and ruin our expansion strategies, however, as we shall see, we can't go after Oranje or Transvaal too quickly. Transvaal also has a Great Trek decision to take many of the Boer pops out of British Cape Colony and into Transvaal, but it doesn't use it. If it did, we could retaliate with the "Attack The Laagers" decision, which massacres the Boer population in Durban and gives us some prestige in return. This is not a joke, this is an actual thing in the game. I do not know whether or not I'll use Attack the Laagers if given the opportunity, it makes me feel bad.  Also, it will mildly reduce our literacy, but not by that much. Our most important neighbor, of course, is the British Cape Colony. If the British decide that South Africa needs Natal, it's game over. I cannot beat the British. Period. Luckily, there are strategies we can employ to make the British attacking us far less likely, however, none are foolproof.   Finally, we have Madagascar. Soon into the game, France gets the "Lambert Charter" decision that puts Madagascar into its sphere, at which point it becomes impossible to attack without war with France. France subsequently follows that up with the "End the Merina Monarchy" decision that annexes Madagascar by decision. If we want Madagascar to not fall into French hands, we must act quickly, but we have no ships.  So let's build some ships!  "But Patter Song, you'll go bankrupt!" No, no I won't. Uncivs are immune to bankruptcy.* If we run out of money, we stop spending money and don't go into debt. This is just a (failed) bet that we will get a clipper built before we run out of money. We got 7/8ths of the needed materials before we hit rock bottom, so it was a valiant attempt, shipbuilders of Zulu. Madagascar will live. *This is true for our purposes, though not true in an absolute sense, we will discuss the exception later.  If Zulus have one weakness, it's...that they're a one-state unciv bordering Great Britain with no real economy to speak of. If Zulus have two weaknesses, it's that they start the game with literally 0 Bureaucrats in the entire country. Not 0%. 0. This means all out government expenses are more than doubled and the Zulu state is hemorrhaging money.  As much as I want to boost my Clergy to boost my research and literacy, Bureaucrats take priority.  "Speaking of research...how...does that work, again? I just see a grayed-out box." Good question, reader! Zulu is what's known as an unwesternized country, or "Unciv." As an unciv, we are unable to research technology until we reform out of Unciv status to Westernized status. We do get The Command Principle as a sop to Zulu's proud martial heritage (which means that fewer of our soldiers die from the same enemy attack), and, as we'll discuss soon, we can get a few more of those techs before Westernizing, but for now, we need to accept our Tier 0 techs on everything except Tactics.  If you're playing as an Unciv and don't put a Reactionary Party in charge for that sweet, sweet Jingoism on day one, I'm not sure what's wrong with you, but you're doing it wrong. Also, note that our Liberal Party is Pacifist.    Meet the enemy of all uncivs: Westernization reforms. You can buy Westernization Reforms with research points. All the ones in the military column will give you 10% Westernization progress. The ones in the Economic column give you 15% progress except for International Debt  do not take International Debt, all it does is allow you to go bankrupt which gives you 35% Westernization Progress, Industrial Progress, which gives 20% progress, and Industrial Construction, which gives 25% progress. Foreign Trading Methods is cheaper than the other Military Reforms, which all have the same price, and Land Reform is the cheapest Economic Reform, followed by the rest of the 15% reforms, followed by Industrial Progress, then Industrial Construction, then International Debt, which is the most expensive and which you can only take if you've already taken Enact Monetary Reform.Let's get a handle on these ratios.  The cheapest Military Reform.  The average Military Reform.  The cheapest Economic Reform.  The most expensive Economic Reform I can enact (International Debt is blocked, remember). These prices have a base cost and are modified by two things. Your literacy percentage is divided in half and that fraction is taken off of both. At the moment, we have 5.3% lit, so all reforms are 2.6% cheaper. A country with high literacy like Japan's starting 40% thus gets a massive benefit by having far cheaper reforms. The other number is Upper House support. As far as I can tell, Conservatives back military reform and oppose economic reform, while Liberals back economic reform and oppose military reform, and Reactionaries oppose both. Later on, we'll get Anarcho-Capitalists, who will also oppose both. You remember in my Bavaria thread how India stayed an Unciv almost to the very end of the game, despite high (27%) literacy? It was a Bourgeois Dictatorship, leading to an all-Anarcho-Liberal Upper House, which meant +50% to all reform costs. All unciv reforms grant modifiers that boost your state that are removed upon Westernization. In addition, some of the reforms grant various Tier 1 technologies. When an unciv reforms into a civ, it gains the techs that its sphere master has minus one tier, IIRC. If it's unsphered, it gains the techs that all eight Great Powers have in common. Given that technological laggards like Russia and the Ottoman Empire might be Great Powers, that isn't that great a deal. In addition, the first four military reforms will grant Research Point bonuses on the conquest of territory. Specifically, you get 5 years of Research Points that the conquered territory would have generated times 25% for each of the four reforms, so you only get the full bonus if you have all four of those reforms. This is capped at 25,000 points, though you're only likely to see that in edge cases like conquering Korea. We won't be going after Oranje until we at least have the first of the reforms, so we get research points from the conquest, and research-rich Transvaal will wait until we have more of the reforms. A brief summary of the actions of the reforms that we are planning on getting in order: Foreign Training Methods: marginal boost to Org, Research Point bonus, +10% civ. Cheapest reform, required if you're going to conquer your way to civilization, but the bonus is lousy. Imported Weapons: Allows Infantry, unlocks Tier I Small Armaments tech, RP bonus, +10% civ. Desirable if you want to create an army that can even pretend to go toe to toe with the weakest of civs, but your average unciv will have difficulty getting the resources to build Infantry. Advanced Constructions: Builds a Level 1 Fort in your capital, unlocks Tier I Army Doctrine tech, RP Bonus, +10% civ. Again, required for conquering your way to civilization, but cash-strapped uncivs won't be building many forts in the early game. Foreign Officer Training: Tier I Military Science tech, RP Bonus, 10% civ. See above. Also, this tech isn't particularly useful because the inventions that allow you to unlock Hussars and Dragoons and Cuirassiers are blocked to Civ only. Land Reform: Cheapest economic reform. +25% Farming and Mining. 15% civ. Excellent for getting your economy going. Not the best, but cheap and useful. Improved Transportation: +25% Farming and Mining, builds level 1 Railroads in every province in your nation's capital state, unlocks Tier I Railroad tech. For the economic benefit, the free railroads are just a bonus. Improved Education: some literacy bonus, I forget the number. We'll spend barely any time between 85% reformed here and 100%, but I need the economic bonus more than the literacy. This is just here for the slightest edge before we Westernize. Administration Reform: +10% Administrative Efficiency. Look, this is worthless, but I don't care, because it gets us from 85% to 100% the fastest. We'll lose this the second we click that Westernize button. In my opinion, this would be the fastest route for Zulu. It might be slightly quicker (1-2 months at most) to do Industrial Progress and Army Schools as the final ones rather than Improved Education and Administrative Reform, but I hate waiting for Industrial Progress. reform chat is over! So here is my army. 9 brigades of Irregulars. Irregulars are like Infantry except worse. We have access to Cavalry, which are like Hussars except worse, but building a brigade of Cavalry would require me to disband a brigade of Irregulars and pray that the Cavalry actually get built, which they won't be, so it'd just make us weaker to try. Cavalry would allow us to siege faster, but we'll have to do without them. We don't have a general, so let's get to getting one!  You see the checkered flag? That's Leadership. When it reaches 20, I get a general. It ticks up by 1.45 a month, so we'll get there.    Meet our three provinces. Durban has a pesky Boer minority and is the only province in the game that has a Natal core. I guess releasing Natal would be a challenging run. Our provinces produce Grain and Wool, two rather lackluster goods. Ladysmith is mountainous, and if we moved our troops there they'd die of attrition, so let's not do that. Ulundi is where over half our people live, and is a nice province. Well, that's our setting. Tune in tomorrow for the exciting adventures of Zulu after we hit the unpause button!
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Aug 10, 2014 05:46
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Patter Song posted:Well, that's our setting. Tune in tomorrow for the exciting adventures of Zulu after we hit the unpause button! No, don't do it Patter Song, don't be a hero!
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Aug 10, 2014 08:06
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So how fast can we get hosed after we unpause?
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Aug 10, 2014 09:06
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I've played in south Africa a few times, but never as Zulu. If Patter Song can take out Oranje/Transvaal as first priorities, we'll be in a much better place. Oranje at game start can only field around 6000 men (maybe 9000 if lucky). Those precious metal mines will go a long way towards making us some much-needed coin.
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Aug 10, 2014 09:09
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South Africa is my favorite region to play. I normally play Transvaal and with some smart playing you can remain independent from the UK and end up as one of the major powers with practically all of Africa below Somalia under me. Their only issue is Boers population takes forever to get going. Assimilation of native populations from my massive empire ended up being the only way I got my pop up. It should be interesting to see how the Zulu play out.
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Aug 10, 2014 11:40
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Anyone know at what point the Boer Republics become playable in NNM? They don't start out as options in the 1836 start.
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Aug 10, 2014 11:44
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Ratoslov posted:So how fast can we get hosed after we unpause? Theoretically, we could be annexed by 1837. It'd require Britain to make conquering the Zulus its first move, though, and that's pretty unlikely.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:13
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Patter Song posted:and that's pretty unlikely.
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Aug 10, 2014 16:16
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What do you think of Long distance shenangians? The last time GB dowed my as Zulu (after I got the Boers though) I ran the gently caress away to Ethiopa and conquered them instead. Ethiopa got landlocked by my Egypt earlier, so the Brits couldnt reach me and eventually went away in Frustration.
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Aug 12, 2014 15:21
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Zulu Chapter II: The Boer War (1836-1845) If we had chosen Bolivia, we'd have the joys of day one war with Brazil and Chile!  Good news: the Dutch often provoke suicidal wars with Britain over Belgium and if Portugal joins the Brits will sink their navy, meaning one less thing to worry about.  Bad news: the Portuguese are cowards.  ...OK, Prussia is on the Dutch side. This is really bad for the UK, it can't compete with Prussia on the ground. Looks like the Dutch are getting Belgium back. Will be nice to see the UK get a bloody nose, at least.   Excellent! If a country has more than 100 relations with you, they can't declare war on you. Military access for the Brits is a great first step on our climb to safety by sucking up to the British Empire.  The British are arrogantly trying to seize Suriname, ceding northern Maine to the USA to get rid of the infamy from doing so. It's pointless, they can't win this war, not with Prussia in it.  We're out of money. This is no big deal.  Mexico's AI is so :facepalm: about this war. If done correctly, you can do this war so that you will always win. Every. Single. Time.  Ethiopians proclaim their empire restored, gaining some cores and a CB on Egypt. Ethiopia might be an interesting campaign.   So Belgium fell, but that doesn't knock Britain out of the war. Britain's objective just becomes liberating Belgium from the Dutch. It's not like there's any chance they could pull this off...right?  That's gutsy, Britain, but kind of pointless.   With this new upper house, the price of reforms goes down drastically as the Reactionaries lose seats. We're still years away, but...fewer years.  Burma and Dai Nam gang up on Siam. If we were Johore, this would be the opportunity to reclaim our cores from Siam.  Somewhere, Richard Cobden's ghost smiles.  AI Mexico will always blow this, without fail.  I don't feel so bad about AI Tripoli's inability to fend off the Ottomans, I think that war is borderline impossible.   The Turks go for Adana, the Ethiopians for Eritrea.  That's...bold of you, Britain. The Prussians will crush your invasion force soon enough, though.  Shut up, USA.  The British celebrate the fall of Brussels with a new Queen's coronation. (And lose Hannover)   RIP Tunis, one of the most vulnerable countries on the map.  Now that we have enough Bureaucrats, let's get some Clergy and get our research and literacy up to speed.     Um...Prussia...is there something wrong at home? You can tell me.  Ugh...worst part of unciv status is the constant diseases ravaging our already tiny population.  Did...Britain just beat Prussia in a land war? Note to self: do not piss off this world's British. The British added Suriname to their Guyana colony.  Luckily, we should be safe from the Brits for now.  And celebrated with a Doctrine of Lapse on Orissa.  You know, playing as Johore would be fun in this world, Siam is wrecked and ripe for the picking.  Hi El Salvador, nice to see you. Haven't seen you since every game of V2 ever.  Egypt smashed Ethiopia, which is...unusual.   Even if our boats did exist, Madagascar is now a French sphereling and therefore off-limits.  USA just doesn't stop talking about this "slavery" thing.  RIP Morocco. Morocco is in relatively good shape on paper, but in reality the Spanish are assholes and will kill them early on.  OK, time to repair relations with our other neighbor.  Of all the diseases in the game, Flu is the worst.  Let's fill the vacant ranks with new soldiers to replace the ones dying of flu!  ...That's...different.  France vs Austria due to a spat between the Pope and Lucca? This is...an odd start to a V2 campaign.  OK, USA going for Manifest Destiny, that's more ordinary.  Almost there, time to start preparing for war so we can annex Oranje right after the first reform finishes. Remember, we need to annex Oranje before they become Friendly with the British.  So this will just run until we're discovered, and then finished. We'll receive a % of that infamy based on the amount of days left vs total days.  A bit over half isn't bad at all!  Poor Morocco.  I still can't believe a major Franco-Austrian war broke out because the Pope insulted someone.  Turks come for Syria.  War time. Prepare yourself, Oranje!  ...That doesn't really feel like a win.  The Dutch gain a lot of prestige for officially recognizing Belgian independence. Given that a few years ago the British were in Amsterdam, I don't blame them for giving up on this.   We're on our way!  The USA is very...unambitious...about this whole "Manifest Destiny" thing.  This doesn't seem like much until you realize that early game Austria is all about prestige.  The Turks are pretty unimaginative about going after their cores as well.  Well I'll be! Bolivia usually gets slaughtered in these early game wars. Good for you, AI Bolivia!  They're finally dead!  ...  ... Well...um...maybe their troops are still in Portugal and I'll have time to prepare?  OK, I'm screwed.  Not as screwed as the Orange Free State is, though!   I cannot beat them.  Nice bump from annexing Oranje. Too bad it's irrelevant now.   I hate last stands.   Yeah, this world is screwed, Germany will eat everything. Sadly I won't live to see it.  Yeah, whatever, good for you, Chile.  Bully for you, Prussia. Enjoy your easy path to forming Grossdeustchland and eating all of Europe.   Enjoy your early civil war, USA. (Dred Scott fired in 1845? I barely ever see it before 1850)  RIP Zulu. Annexed 1845. Well, that was a fun thread. Shame it ended so quickly.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:59
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What was our general like? Seems like I recall that key to a successful Zulu campaign (amongst other things) is rolling a Stonewall Jackson for yourself.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:13
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This wouldn't have happened if we had played Bolivia instead 
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Aug 12, 2014 23:16
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That ended about as well as I thought it would.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:17
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TheMcD posted:What was our general like? Seems like I recall that key to a successful Zulu campaign (amongst other things) is rolling a Stonewall Jackson for yourself.  I didn't need speed, but speed's what I got.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:18
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Patter Song posted:
Hellbent, hellbent for leather.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:25
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I don't know if we combatted Eurocentrism very well, having had Europe show up and conquer the thread. Will there be another try with the second place vote-winner?
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Aug 12, 2014 23:25
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Patter Song posted:
Yeah, that's pretty poo poo. I'd almost suggest starting over, then saving in February 1837 (when you hit 20 Leadership) and just reloading until you get a great general (I'm pretty sure the +5 defense is crucial) just because that ending is just a massive anticlimax. I mean, we figured we were going to get annexed, but not that fast.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:28
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The reign of Dingane kaSenzengakhona ended disgracefully when Portugal pretended to be relevant to something. Oral tradition maintains that Dingane's final words were, "I loving purged all my brothers and their friends only to get beat by loving Portugal?"
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Aug 12, 2014 23:35
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Now I'm even more disappointed that Johore had no support. Think you'll be taking another crack at Zulu?
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Aug 12, 2014 23:40
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Ouch. Alas, poor Zulu. We hardly knew ye.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:49
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Well that was an exciting update. Too bad Shaka was not with us. But that Britain and Prussia!
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Aug 13, 2014 00:07
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I will support Johore then!
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Aug 13, 2014 00:13
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This wouldn't have happened if we were the great and mighty Australian empire.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:13
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This wouldn't have happened if you had had guns.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:21
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This wouldn't have happened if we had Forest Whittaker and Orlando Bloom to solve the case.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:26
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Clearly all that's left is to submit this to Baldurk. It has the advantage of brevity. Why read Kersch's long thread when you can see the fullness of V2 in two updates?
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Aug 13, 2014 00:36
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Yeah, I'd like to see a Zulu run longer than 20 years.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:39
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Don't quit the thread of course. Make a glorious caroussel of revolving annexations!
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Aug 13, 2014 00:40
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