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What are you really going to learn in 9 months? I'm not saying it's completely insane, but like someone else asked. What's the benefit? You have a masters? Now you're overqualified because you have no work experience? If anything get an MBA, work on some business connections while you take it, and try and leverage it into some analyst something or another finance job.
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Aug 12, 2014 05:12
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Tai-Pan posted:There are two reasons to go to graduate school. One, because the job you want requires it (Law, medicine, certain banking professions, etc). Or, Two, because you really, personally, want to study that area. ^^ This is more my thinking about getting the degree. However when I chose my masters degree I selected one that would definitely get a job/career/business. I would not have done the degree otherwise. If you really want to study the area then look see if there are any scholarships you could apply for. Anything to keep the debt down. My recommendations to most of the people I know are to work as a tradesman, or find a job that you could qualify for with only 1-2 years of training. Some two year courses will waive the first year if you already have an undergraduate degree. One last thing to consider is that you could make your fortune and then study any masters or Ph.D you want.
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Aug 12, 2014 10:34
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Do you think being able to put UChicago on your resume and getting to network with some their alumni is worth 25k? I have no idea but maybe you can try to find someone who did this program recently and ask them.
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Aug 12, 2014 11:36
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The more I think about it, the more I realize my time would be better served pursuing an MBA at a top institution than this vague social science MA. It might have been a great opportunity if I was a richer man, but I can improve my life in the here and now. So much of my desire to attend stems from a wish to disrupt the status quo, escaping the rut I've been in for the past three years. But I have all the means of changing my life already available to me. I've got a degree at a top private University, and I do have some work experience. I could embark on a career path in say IT, pursue a few certs, nab some relevant experience and have better job prospects without taking on more debt (and while paying off my existing debt). I've spent too long succumbing to a narrative of powerlessness that simply isn't true.
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Aug 12, 2014 14:27
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Do not go to grad school unless 1) you know exactly what you want out of the experience after working and knowing how it will help your career and 2) it is completely funded. Only way I'd say otherwise is if your employer will pay for it, or you're far enough along in your career that it seems like a good investment to get ahead. 25K is a lot of money, and that's money you could put into other things. And please please please do not get a vague masters in social science. I can't see it helping you career-wise or for continuing on to a phd. There are many MA programs out there that are basically money pots for universities looking for students to pay tuition for the "prestige" of getting an advanced degree, and won't teach you anything you couldn't learn at a job or internship (which at minimum wouldn't cost you 25K to do). This program sounds like one of them. Also, it'll take longer than you think. I though my masters would only take me two years, and here I am 4 years later just graduating. You're investing your money and your time. Time you could be using to build work experience, put money away for retirement, pay off undergrad loans, etc. And you'll be "overqualified" with it as well, especially for entry level work. I've seen an increasing amount of entry level jobs say no MAs or PhDs apply. I got my degree in a soc sci field and work in a related career. What has counted most for all of my jobs is experience, hands down. I got my current job while still in school, and my MA degree hasn't meant poo poo in terms of helping me do my job or earn more money. At a certain point more education is looked on favorably, but only after you've worked for a while. And since I now want to leave this field, I now have a degree that I chose to do because "why not, i'm supposed to and it'll help my career, right?", when I could have worked, realized this wasn't what I wanted a lot earlier, and chosen something else while having much more money in my pocket. Please don't do it, not for a drat social science degree. Something like an MPA or MPP, or something in HCI or UX I could see paying off (after gaining work experience). Those have more set career paths, and ones that pay half-way decently. I listened to my parents ("you have to, you're smart and more degrees = more money!") and I'm so much more worse off financially and career-wise for it, and that's after technically succeeding at what I was trying to do (got a degree and a related job in my field).
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Aug 12, 2014 15:53
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Thank you for sharing your experience. I had a moment of self-doubt yesterday when they offered me half tuition, but you're reminding me of why graduate education isn't an automatic mechanism for success, despite being presented that way. I'll go back to school, but only if it clearly advances my clear objectives in a way that makes sense from a cost/benefit analysis, or if its funded, at an elite institution and allows me to pursue my original goal of becoming an academic.
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Aug 12, 2014 16:16
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Dude you need to take like fifteen steps back. First you talk about getting an MBA, and now you're on being an academic for life. In the span of two hours. It sure seems like you don't have any defined career goals.
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Aug 12, 2014 16:54
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Yes, you are still thinking the right way. If your parents think it is such a slam dunk, they should pay for it. You are doing the right thing in trying to figure this out. Do not give in to the siren song of not knowing what to do, so you just pay $25k (plus the value of lost wages, etc.) to defer having to figure it out for a few years.
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Aug 12, 2014 17:18
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No problem, if you ever feel any doubts come up or want a counter to all of the "you have to go to grad school nooooooooooooow", go to 100 reasons not to go to grad school: http://100rsns.blogspot.com It really does nail all of the drawbacks, specifically for arts and humanities advanced degrees. I understand the pressure, I get it from my parents, advisor, friends. It took a while for my mother to finally get off my back about going on to a PhD, and it helped me keep my perspective and have reasons to counter her when needed. She gets it now that she sees how it's turned out for me and the toll it took on my health and financial stability.
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Aug 12, 2014 17:19
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We have 3 UT Mcombs' MBAs at our company. Two work in the call center. Just throwing that out there.
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Aug 12, 2014 17:27
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Dude you need to take like fifteen steps back. First you talk about getting an MBA, and now you're on being an academic for life. In the span of two hours. It sure seems like you don't have any defined career goals. This is a fair point. I've been all over the place lately. If I'm being honest, my #1 goal at the moment is to make more money to pay off my debt more quickly. The PhD and the MBA are just possibilities for things way down the line (and the PhD only if I've paid off my debt and my passion for the intellectual questions that animate me has not abated by the time I'm...45ish). I've spent the past few weeks looking into IT certifications. I've arranged to shadow my current workplace's IT department during downtime at my current gig. The way I see it, the cost of studying and taking an IT cert, while certainly an imposition on my time, is pretty negligible, especially when compared to the cost of pursuing an MA. I think I might like Network Engineering or Helpdesk work, and I think I have a minimally risky way of finding out. If I don't like it, at least I haven't committed myself to a metric gently caress-ton of debt to discover that. God, I must come off as horribly mercurial in this thread. Sorry about that. But I am working on forging some direction in my life.
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Aug 12, 2014 17:34
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Radio Talmudist posted:God, I must come off as horribly mercurial in this thread. Sorry about that. But I am working on forging some direction in my life. No, you come across as fairly intelligent and trying to figure things out. As I said, I think your greatest risk here is that you cannot figure it out quickly, and jump into something stupid for lack of having a better direction. Don't "give up" on figuring things out by simply going back to school. Sometimes the better decision really is to do nothing for awhile (metaphorically).
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Aug 12, 2014 19:11
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As others have said: do not go to graduate school for a phd unless it is fully funded by the university (stipend and tuition waiver) and you are okay with spending 4 to 10 years very poor and then teaching high school (after spending another year getting teacher certified).
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Aug 12, 2014 20:33
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:As others have said: do not go to graduate school for a phd unless it is fully funded by the university (stipend and tuition waiver) and you are okay with spending 4 to 10 years very poor and then teaching high school (after spending another year getting teacher certified). This is horridly over generic advice. You should look at your expected payback period of your advanced degree. For example my company offers a pay raise for an MBA. So I can look at an MBA as a breakeven after 5 years and after that it only continues to add value. However I agree that an MA in a vague subject with no real career job prospects is a bad idea.
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Aug 12, 2014 20:46
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SlyFrog posted:No, you come across as fairly intelligent and trying to figure things out. There's also nothing wrong with taking a year off to explore options for both work and education. It would also give a chance to investigate if it is worthwhile getting the degree or you may find something that has a career associated with it. When I selected my masters in engineering it was because it was a specialised field with a considerable shortage in the field. A worthwhile opportunity.
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Aug 12, 2014 21:57
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Bugamol posted:This is horridly over generic advice. You should look at your expected payback period of your advanced degree. For example my company offers a pay raise for an MBA. So I can look at an MBA as a breakeven after 5 years and after that it only continues to add value. However I agree that an MA in a vague subject with no real career job prospects is a bad idea. Graduate school is different than an mba, which i think most would put in the professional school category.
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Aug 12, 2014 23:54
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Radio Talmudist posted:The more I think about it, the more I realize my time would be better served pursuing an MBA at a top institution than this vague social science MA. It might have been a great opportunity if I was a richer man, but I can improve my life in the here and now. You won't get into a MBA program at a top university unless your career takes off to some extent, which is kind of a chicken-egg thing.
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Aug 13, 2014 01:26
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blah_blah posted:You won't get into a MBA program at a top university unless your career takes off to some extent, which is kind of a chicken-egg thing. And there are 130,000 new MBA graduates each year. If you're not going to a good school, don't bother.
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Aug 13, 2014 01:50
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Having a 9-month degree program in vague social sciences on your resume will do the exact opposite if you want. It's poison. The only worse thing is if you spend 120K to go to law school and put a JD on there. DO NOT GO. Repeat: DO NOT GO. Absolutely no master's degree worth having lasts 9 months. Absolutely no master's degree worth having is worth 40K however long the program is. Absolutely no master's degree is worth 25K. Absolutely no master's/PhD worth having is worth taking out more than 5Kish of debt (living expenses) for. If they're not paying you to go gently caress them. I don't care if it's from loving Harvard. DO NOT GO. Tell your parents to gently caress off back to their era when any degree "from a good school" expanded career prospects and everyone got a job by walking in and asking for it!!!. The people trying to get you into this program are lying out their rear end about job placement and vague promises about sending graduates to various interesting jobs. It's their job to get you sign to the dotted line. DO ANYTHING ELSE. I got a science degree ending up with about 80K in debt, same as you. I started with a 12$/h job and could barely meet minimum payments and lived on the same lovely food I ate in college for a year. Four years and several jobs later I'm making decent cash and my loan totals are about 55K. It'll always suck at the beginning. PS: this video by Sarah Silverman is about payday loans but it applies equally well to you. At least payday loans are dischargeable in bankruptcy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFwPAMeVPE4
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Aug 13, 2014 01:55
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seacat posted:Tell your parents to gently caress off back to their era when any degree "from a good school" expanded career prospects and everyone got a job by walking in and asking for it!!!. The people trying to get you into this program are lying out their rear end about job placement and vague promises about sending graduates to various interesting jobs. It's their job to get you sign to the dotted line. DO ANYTHING ELSE. It really needs to be the end of the era of get a degree just because. My parents are from the baby boomer generation and their level of education was pretty low. Of course parents want to see their children do better than they did but just getting any old degree isn't really a good decision making process. Educational institutions are only concerned about getting students into their courses for funding, and they have little interest in terms of job prospects. In fact on completing my B.Sc. (chem) they didn't even bother telling us about the job potential overseas as they were only interested in how many post graduate students they could get to do their research. Finding a career you would like then selecting the degree will give a much better result.
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Aug 13, 2014 03:12
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Don't get a masters unless it's just a given on the way to a Ph.D, you have one VERY SPECIFIC PROFESSION that requires a masters in order to practice (Physical Therapist, Speech Therapist, Social Worker, Physician's Assistant, etc.), or there is some VERY SPECIFIC GOVERNMENT JOB that just loves eating up MAs in random social science studies for whatever loving reason (these jobs don't really exist). I have an MS. I have a semi-decent medical job. However, if I had to do everything all over again, I would of just said gently caress it and become an electrician. Most masters programs worth it are like the Special Forces of learning poo poo. You will be getting 3-4 hours a sleep a night for 2-3 years straight, will put up with ridiculous amounts of bullshit, and will consider quitting/contemplating suicide at the end of every week/month. Only the neurotic manic assholes survive. You will get out with 3 more years of your 20s pissed away, maybe a lovely thesis no one will ever read to show for it, and maybe an "ok" job.
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Aug 13, 2014 05:24
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I spent about 17-18k on a 2-year Master's degree that got me a job while I was still in the program, and that job was enough of a pay increase that the program had more than "paid for itself" by the time I graduated. Terminal Master's degrees will rarely be fully funded in my experience, so you have to have a strategy to justify the cost. My advice: when you're considering a program, call or visit the department head and ask what their job placement rate is. If they get offended, won't tell you, or say anything at all other than "100% or close to 100%" walk the gently caress away. Once you're there, tell everyone that you're looking for a job and be nice to them, and use all the resources for job-hunting that the university offers, which will likely be considerable.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:46
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My background: Both my wife and I attended graduate school. I am ABD and am on leave from my PhD program because we moved when my wife took a post doc last year (she's actually at the University of Chicago right now). My wife is in the social sciences, specifically cognitive psychology, which is fairly "hard" for a "soft science" (she does cognition research, her undergrad psych degree was a BS as opposed to a BA). "Don't get a terminal masters" is pretty good advice unless you know that the specific jobs you want are looking for people with master's degrees. Ex. a terminal masters in philosophy is not particularly useful for dramatically increasing your chances of getting a job. For political science, are you focusing on quantitative work? If so, a masters may increase your likelihood of getting a job. However, reading your posts, it sounds like you sort of want to get a PhD in the long run, so I'll speak to that. You mention starting a PhD at age 45 in one post. I don't want to crush your dreams, but this is really not a realistic plan. There are simply not a lot of people who get PhDs from top programs at that age. My wife and I attended the University of Illinois for grad school. Both of our programs/departments (writing studies for me, and cog psych for her) are considered top national programs. Both of our programs were heavily geared towards producing future tenure track professors. This is pretty much how schools with top talent work. If you want to study with the "best minds" you're probably looking at a PhD. Masters programs are not really geared towards the same sort of thought you're talking about, you're on a much shorter time table and have a lot less room for doing original work. If you're just romanticizing the idea of having a PhD, that's fine, but realize that the odds are you'll never get it or you'll get it at a middling school. That said, getting a PhD from a top university doesn't lock you into an academic trajectory, particularly in the sciences. We know people from my wife's program who went into industry. A couple left to work for the FAA researching attention in pilots. Another guy went to Microsoft before leaving to work on Oculus Rift. Your millage in industry jobs will vary dramatically based on what exactly your focus is (as a general rule a focus on tech, quantitative research, or other "sciency things" helps). If you actually REALLY want to get a PhD from a top tier school, you should absolutely start now. Don't waste your time on getting a masters and then trying to apply into PhD programs. You'll generally lose at least a year of work because most school will want you to take the specific classes they give their masters students. Getting a PhD takes a long time, and top programs want their grads to get jobs at other top programs. The older you are the less likely that this will happen. I can't think of anyone much older than their early 30's in my program. There was one older adult in my wife's program and he lasted one year before he want on leave for a year -no one expects him to return. Another thing to consider is how long you're putting your non-work life on hold for. We're an ideal case for the shortest time table. We started grad school as soon as we finished undergrad (a fair number of people take a year or two off). My wife graduated a year early to take the post doc she has now, and she will go on the job market this year. Due to the US hiring timetable, if she gets a job she'll start next fall - we'll both be 29. If you want to do something like start a family, you'll quickly realize that you have a pretty narrow window to have children unless you plan to adopt or your spouse is younger. Having kids in grad school is very difficult unless your partner has a "real job." Grad students make poo poo for money (my salary was like $20,000 a year) and your insurance is sub-par. The middle aged guy in my wife's program? He had a wife and kids and sold his business to go back to school, I have a hard time believing that providing for and being with his family didn't play into his decision to leave grad school. You'll be making crap and putting in a ton of hours. It sucks at any age, but I can't imagine doing it while trying to raise kids at the same time. If you really want a PhD, and you also want to have a life outside of your job, you need to commit ASAP. If you just like the idea of having a PhD, but don't think that getting one is for you, than your real question is: Does an MA help me get the job I want? To determine that, it seems like you need a better idea of the specific job/type of job you want. Karnegal fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 09:11
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Dude you need to take like fifteen steps back. First you talk about getting an MBA, and now you're on being an academic for life. In the span of two hours. It sure seems like you don't have any defined career goals. The worst thing that you can do is splurge on an extra degree "just because". It's a waste of time, and money. You need to sit back, and really decide what it is you want to do career-wise. I've been in the same position, and I know it sucks to be caught in the middle. But don't feel compelled to go to school under the impression that it'll automatically make you employable. If your education and work experience are all over the place, potential employers will think you have ADD. A few people here might disagree with this suggestion, but I'm going to say it- look at some of the courses offered by a nearby community college. You might find an interesting program that offers a co-op placement (job experience!), and most CCs are much less expensive. Many of their courses tend to be relatively shorter, as well. And it has been my experience that they're a lot more upfront about their graduates' employment rates. There seems to be a stigma against community college programs that I don't quite understand. They're worth a look. blah_blah posted:You won't get into a MBA program at a top university unless your career takes off to some extent, which is kind of a chicken-egg thing. melon cat fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 17:47
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Karnegal posted:My background: Both my wife and I attended graduate school. I am ABD and am on leave from my PhD program because we moved when my wife took a post doc last year (she's actually at the University of Chicago right now). My wife is in the social sciences, specifically cognitive psychology, which is fairly "hard" for a "soft science" (she does cognition research, her undergrad psych degree was a BS as opposed to a BA). I think your avatar says it best.
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Aug 19, 2014 04:50
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Has anyone said "gently caress no lol" yet because holy poo poo OP
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Aug 20, 2014 00:22
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UPDATE: (I'll also put this in the OP) So I officially withdrew last Monday and I was a little depressed. Even though I knew, intellectually, that I had made the right choice, it was still a difficult thing to say no to an elite education. So much of my self-worth was bound up in the idea of attending a top school that it hurt a little bit to walk away from it all. I told co-workers at my temp job of my decision. One of these co-workers as a funny, unassuming guy I assumed was just a regular office drone. He didn't carry himself in any special way, and I enjoyed our brief, casual conversations about the office, or politics, which he was passionate about. Turns out he was an executive. He wanted me to go to U Chicago but upon hearing that I was sticking around, he suggested that I apply for an opening in a department he managed. I interviewed last friday and got the job. It's a salaried gig that pays dramatically more than I've ever been paid. In the span of a week I've withdrawn from graduate school and initated a new career. Hopefully it works out - it will work out, because I refuse to squander this amazing opportunity. I'm beyond excited.
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Aug 20, 2014 14:37
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 That's a great update! Way to go! Make sure you make the most of the opportunity and you'll do fine.
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Aug 20, 2014 14:56
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Radio Talmudist posted:UPDATE: (I'll also put this in the OP) Good for you man -- congrats on hustling and getting a higher paying job versus paying money to the education complex. Glad you didn't make the clearly bad decision. Wish you the best. If your newly acquired job doesn't work out for you just draw the experience and move on  always remember, unlike school, they're paying you.
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Aug 20, 2014 15:01
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Radio Talmudist posted:UPDATE: (I'll also put this in the OP) gently caress yes. Besides, you've done better than getting an education from a top school. You were given the option of getting an education from a top school, and you're so baller, you rejected them. Congratulations on the new position!
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Aug 20, 2014 18:43
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Awesome man. Good luck in the new gig.
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Aug 20, 2014 18:45
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Radio Talmudist posted:UPDATE: (I'll also put this in the OP) Making a hard life decision and showing commitment to your finances then telling your co-workers about it turned out to be the easiest job interview you'll ever have. Not always easy to know who the executives are. Despite working in a professional office I'm often wearing a t-shirt instead of a shirt and tie.
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Aug 21, 2014 02:13
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Radio Talmudist posted:UPDATE: (I'll also put this in the OP) Nice! You probably got +3 to charisma in his eyes for saying no to a top school, and it paid off... literally.
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Aug 21, 2014 03:17
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For what it's worth I just got my undergraduate degree from UChicago and I hated almost every minute of it. Goddamn soul crushing place, I got a degree in Poli Sci and my experiences there make me not even want to go into the field. Currently looking into bartending. I can't speak for graduate life, but if it's anything at all like undergrad, you just dodged a very expensive bullet if you are a social person who is well adjusted. That place sucks. (Disclaimer: A lot of losers like it there.)
RedAce fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 00:59
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RedAce posted:For what it's worth I just got my undergraduate degree from UChicago and I hated almost every minute of it. Goddamn soul crushing place, I got a degree in Poli Sci and my experiences there make me not even want to go into the field. Currently looking into bartending. I can't speak for graduate life, but if it's anything at all like undergrad, you just dodged a very expensive bullet if you are a social person who is well adjusted. That place sucks. (Disclaimer: A lot of losers like it there.) What's the unofficial U Chicago motto? Where fun goes to die? I have to admit that this appealed the academic masochist in me but I suspect I'd be contemplating eating a bullet three months into the program. I've also heard that U Chicago has less cachet than other elite schools, which hurts post-grad job hunting.
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Dec 23, 2014 16:53
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Congrats on getting the corporate job, that'll help with those student loans. I think you're making the right decision, schooling is kind of a racket these days unless you're really going into something specific like medicine. A lot of schools, even the elite schools, are preying on our insecurity about our ability to live a comfortable life, and the fact that we've been conditioned to see schooling as a sure pathway to success.
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Dec 23, 2014 18:30
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Hey I read your update so this is kinda pointless now, but because I like talking about myself: I was facing a similar decision as you were, two years ago. I was a few years out of undergrad, and in a soulless, bullshit job that I hated. I took some math courses at a local community college and managed to get into a a few Masters in Econ programs. I ended up going to BU, which is very expensive, as expensive as UChicago, but with a less prestigious name. At the time I was debt-free so I said gently caress it, and sold my car and cashed in some assets and took out a loan for the difference. After getting my Masters, I slowly realized that Econ Masters programs in the U.S. are largely worthless, especially compared to MA/MS Econ programs in foreign countries, which are very rigorous. I got extraordinarily lucky that I did manage to learn one particular skill while in grad school (SAS programming) that got me a banging consulting job. Had I not taken a particular section of Econometrics I wouldn't have even gotten to learn this skill (the other sections taught Stata, which is also very powerful but much less in demand in non-academia jobs), so I basically boosted my earning power in grad school by accident, and over half of my class missed out. So, in the end, my decision worked out. But that was more due to luck rather than me following a good, smart process. I suppose I could have learned SAS on my own (more difficult than it sounds), I did also learn pretty rigorous econometric/data analysis skills, which tie in nicely with SAS ability and helped me get a good job. But I have tons of classmates who have the exact same degree as me, but didn't really get the right skills learned in school, and they are essentially jobless or working at jobs they could have gotten without a $40,000 graduate degree. A lot of this has to do with how economics is taught (a separate topic), but it also showed me that many jobs don't give a poo poo about your degrees, they care more about what skills you learned while earning those degrees. Its smart to work backwards from your ideal career, identify the skills you need to get that job, and find the cheapest/best way of learning those skills in a provable manner. Most Masters/Econ programs in the U.S. are not worth their exorbitant prices. Pron on VHS fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Dec 23, 2014 |
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Dec 23, 2014 22:54
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RedAce posted:For what it's worth I just got my undergraduate degree from UChicago and I hated almost every minute of it. Goddamn soul crushing place, I got a degree in Poli Sci and my experiences there make me not even want to go into the field. Currently looking into bartending. I can't speak for graduate life, but if it's anything at all like undergrad, you just dodged a very expensive bullet if you are a social person who is well adjusted. That place sucks. (Disclaimer: A lot of losers like it there.) Way to get owned by hyde park ya baby. Also MAPPS isn't a real program, it's a moneymaker the school dreamed up because they go wrecked back in the financial crash.
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Dec 25, 2014 13:07
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For whatever it's worth, I spent 25k to get my master's in environmental engineering a few years ago. I was making $32k as a microbiologist. 3 years of part time school at night. 6 years after starting school, I make just under 6 figures. Of course I work in oil and gas so there's a chance my future salary will be less if the industry takes a dive. I figure the floor is 60-70k worst case scenario. That masters changed my life and it was the best investment I've ever made. I did research before I started though which is the most important thing you can do. Always look at your opportunity costs and realistic predictions of potential salary.
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Dec 27, 2014 18:14
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