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Quest For Glory II posted:I wonder what this means for the charity marathons that use Twitch like AGDQ/ESA. You probably couldn't speedrun Vice City without the entirety of it being muted. I'm assuming they'll leave and go to Hitbox. This seems like an intensely boneheaded business move. I can only imagine this was an edict handed down from an executive board who haven't a clue what the main source of streaming is on Twitch. If people don't just jump ship to Hitbox, someone else will show up on the scene soon enough to replace them.
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Aug 7, 2014 04:06
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Quest For Glory II posted:I wonder what this means for the charity marathons that use Twitch like AGDQ/ESA. You probably couldn't speedrun Vice City without the entirety of it being muted. I'm assuming they'll leave and go to Hitbox. Live stuff will be fine (for now). When they get their VODs up, they'd have to splice them up in 2 hour chunks and expect audio to be muted. It's going to be pretty lovely and I fully expect SDA/SRL to move elsewhere. Edit: Also, adam_ak, a GTA speed runner already got hit with the muting on one of his recent streams. So yes, it's gonna be poo poo.
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Aug 7, 2014 04:14
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Oh, yeah, no, this should be fine. It's not as if your entire userbase are control freaks bent on freedom of self expression. No possible way this could backfire. Hubris!
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Aug 7, 2014 04:20
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maniacripper posted:Whatever happened to the push some shithead developers were on about collecting a percentage/all streamer income because "they made the content". I hope someone stoned some of them to death and the rest backed down in fear. I want a percentage of the sales of all the games I recommend to friends, because I created the sales.
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Aug 7, 2014 04:33
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maniacripper posted:Whatever happened to the push some shithead developers were on about collecting a percentage/all streamer income because "they made the content". I hope someone stoned some of them to death and the rest backed down in fear.
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Aug 7, 2014 04:42
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I remember we had a thread months ago when the Google buyout was just announced and a bunch of people were saying that it wouldn't be that bad and that Google will know that Twitch isn't YouTube and won't put in their restrictions. How naive we were...can't wait to have to do everything through google plus!
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Aug 7, 2014 04:59
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Original_Z posted:I remember we had a thread months ago when the Google buyout was just announced and a bunch of people were saying that it wouldn't be that bad and that Google will know that Twitch isn't YouTube and won't put in their restrictions. I'm not even sure how E3 can continue to be Twitch's official partner if their archived videos are all muted from the licensed music that gets used in video game trailers
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Aug 7, 2014 05:07
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stringball posted:This has been mentioned, but the hitbox owners are the same as own3d, who owe a good amount of people money On the other hand, migration to hitbox means these guys should be able to pay their debts more easily now. They certainly would be more inclined to.
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Aug 7, 2014 05:21
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Here's another alternative: http://alpha.gaminglive.tv/#/channels Seems to be getting hammered right now
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Aug 7, 2014 06:05
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this is going to completely gently caress VGCW's vods for sure, right? At least the live show usually gets recorded on youtube.
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Aug 7, 2014 06:38
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mabels big day posted:this is going to completely gently caress VGCW's vods for sure, right? At least the live show usually gets recorded on youtube. Yep. All VODs before August 6th will be deleted over the next few weeks, and be muted through the copyright filter in the meantime! Rad!
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Aug 7, 2014 06:39
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Pirate Jet posted:Yep. All VODs before August 6th will be deleted over the next few weeks, and be muted through the copyright filter in the meantime! Rad! Jesus loving christ. There is some insanely good poo poo in the vgcw vod archives that are going to be lost forever.
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Aug 7, 2014 06:47
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August 6th the day twitch diedOriginal_Z posted:I remember we had a thread months ago when the Google buyout was just announced and a bunch of people were saying that it wouldn't be that bad and that Google will know that Twitch isn't YouTube and won't put in their restrictions. Yeah I made that thread. The REAL Goobusters fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 07:03
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I don't understand the music industry.
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Aug 7, 2014 07:10
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maniacripper posted:Whatever happened to the push some shithead developers were on about collecting a percentage/all streamer income because "they made the content". I hope someone stoned some of them to death and the rest backed down in fear. But they did make the content and deserve a cut if some asshat child broadcasts their game to earn money, OP.
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Aug 7, 2014 07:14
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Katana Gomai posted:But they did make the content and deserve a cut if some asshat child broadcasts their game to earn money, OP. That ain't me, bruh.
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Aug 7, 2014 07:17
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pctD posted:I don't understand the music industry. Don't feel bad, the industry doesn't either.
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Aug 7, 2014 07:18
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What's to stop everyone on twitch from just streaming entirely muted footage? Explain on the page why they're doing so, raise awareness for the changes and stir enough discontent to get everyone to drop Twitch like the garbage it's becoming. Then pressure all the major esports venues that use it to stream their games to switch as well. Google thought they were purchasing something they could turn into Youtube 2.0, ruin their ability to control one more chunk of the internet. Katana Gomai posted:But they did make the content and deserve a cut if some asshat child broadcasts their game to earn money, OP. The counter argument to which is "Give me a cut of all game sales I generate for you, asshat developer". Which is exactly what the Yogscast are planning on doing. People who aren't idiots realize it's mutually beneficial and neither party should be paying either one.
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Aug 7, 2014 07:19
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Pirate Jet posted:That ain't me, bruh. ", OP" does not always mean the actual OP in these Something Awful forums, OP. Jesto posted:The counter argument to which is "Give me a cut of all game sales I generate for you, asshat developer". Which is exactly what the Yogscast are planning on doing. The developers don't ask lovely LP nerds to broadcast their games*, why should they pay for the advertising? If I tell my friends a game is great and they buy it, does Nintendo give me a cut? Devs should see a portion of the ad revenue because the "content" being sold by streamers relies heavily, if not exclusively, on their product being shown. Radio stations have to pay for the music they play, too. *Obviously some devs pay for viral marketing through LPs, that's a business relationship and should be treated as such.
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Aug 7, 2014 07:30
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This really sucks because Twitch is great background noise, I'd hate to have check two sites to see if someone I like watching is streaming. If there's a great purge of Twitch I'll be pissed. gently caress.
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Aug 7, 2014 07:30
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welp, time to start streaming at niconico. I'm also one of the 16% people who are affected by the vod change, so I'm pretty sad about that one. But asking twitch to store infinite amount of past broadcasts might be a bit too much
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Aug 7, 2014 07:40
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Katana Gomai posted:But they did make the content and deserve a cut if some asshat child broadcasts their game to earn money, OP. e: It should also be mentioned that many indie companies provide written permission to broadcasters to monetize videos of their game content. And I believe some larger publishers like Capcom do as well, although I haven't checked lately The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 08:06
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Quest For Glory II posted:Why is it okay for them to be above copyright law? Where did I say it was? And how do you know they wouldn't (or that ASCAP wouldn't pursue it)? Hell, maybe their licensing contacts already include a clause for such use.
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Aug 7, 2014 08:10
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Quest For Glory II posted:e: It should also be mentioned that many indie companies provide written permission to broadcasters to monetize videos of their game content. And I believe some larger publishers like Capcom do as well, although I haven't checked lately Speaking of...   I'm pretty interested in seeing if this goes anywhere.
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Aug 7, 2014 08:21
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No 'professional' streamers will move to hitbox thanks to the owned scam. These people are living off of the community they built and so long as the live broadcasting portion remains functional, there is no reason for them to risk their livelihood. VODs will get removed and poo poo on via dumb copyright AI and that sucks but twitch as a whole will be fine. Here's lethalfrag's opinion on it. He points out that he's there to be a live entertainer primarily and the changes don't really disturb that. That said should anyone decide to start up a serious competitor website, now would be the time to do it.
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Aug 7, 2014 08:24
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Valve had their Dota 2 International streams muted, for having music from Dota 2 in them. They fixed it, but its a nice sign of the direction of these sorts of things.
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Aug 7, 2014 08:26
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I've not seen an argument against people moving that didn't come down to money. What about the people who don't care about making money and just stream for fun? What proportion of the userbase is that, and what'll happen if they decide to move?
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Aug 7, 2014 08:29
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Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:I've not seen an argument against people moving that didn't come down to money. What about the people who don't care about making money and just stream for fun? e: another thing to note is that even if another successful broadcasting site existed, eventually the copyright people would do the same thing to it. everybody wants their slice of the pie. Blazing Zero fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 08:34
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I didn't know about hitbox or that it doesn't have the awful twitch delay. Sounds better for the 99% of people who stream for fun/friends.
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Aug 7, 2014 08:36
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Here's a nice post from ArsTechnica's Ron Amadeo talking about how he's not convinced that Google is even driving this set of decisions.quote:Been paying attention to Twitch news the last few days? After reading this, his theory makes a lot of sense to me - the changes don't actually do anything to make Twitch better, and we know Twitch's management is less than stellar.
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Aug 7, 2014 08:36
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Katana Gomai posted:Where did I say it was? And how do you know they wouldn't (or that ASCAP wouldn't pursue it)? Hell, maybe their licensing contacts already include a clause for such use. Ruminate on this smelly garbage: companies claim copyrighted content that isn't theirs on Youtube. NASA's own videos were claimed and deleted by Youtube because a TV station claimed copyright. There's public domain music that gets claimed by production music libraries because they have a similar but not identical performance in their catalog, such as classical music (there have even been reports of Youtube's own Production Music Library getting copyright claimed by other companies). Companies just kind of do what they want. Consider the Happy Birthday song, which Warner has been collecting royalties on for decades, illegally. I think that this system doesn't benefit game companies for other reasons as well. Maybe you feel that Let's Plays are not legitimate advertising, but the company's own trailers certainly are, and there will be a lot of trailers during Gamescom soon, but if any publication on Twitch broadcasts those trailers, the archive broadcasts could full of muted audio. Imagine a company giving a keynote conference at Gamescom and the whole thing's silent. And if the scraper were to get confused and think that the music in a Sunset Overdrive trailer sounds too much like Maxwell's Silver Hammer, even the company's own Twitch archive could get muted, and it's much trickier to resolve. If it's resolved anything like Youtube, you submit a dispute that is then approved or rejected by the company making the claim, rather than an arbitrator. These companies don't actually look at the video in dispute, they just say "oh that song's in the video? Yeah that's ours. REJECTED" which is what happened to the bird chirping video I mentioned earlier. But that's not even the killer, it's the time lost. That video could be muted for days to weeks while the dispute is ongoing. So you lose that ad money but you're also losing out on your advertising opportunity. I think it would be beneficial to everyone to at least meet in the middle. But a lot of companies already understand the benefit of Twitch and LPs. Awesomenauts, Don't Starve, Dungeons of Dredmor, Orcs Must Die, Killing Floor, Tower of Guns, Legends of Grimrock, Magicka, Terraria, Team Fortress 2, Trine; these are just some of the games that grant permission to monetize videos of their content. If it was all developers/publishers on one side and all broadcasters on the other, that would be one thing, but you've got developers on both sides right now. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 08:37
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I'm not terribly sure why audio content creators go after livestreamers in the first place -- isn't it essentially free advertising? Is it that there's a possibility that they can lose their copyright if for some reason they willingly choose not to enforce it? Is it some legal departments trying to pad their stats? Does anyone have insight?
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Aug 7, 2014 08:57
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Heavy neutrino posted:I'm not terribly sure why audio content creators go after livestreamers in the first place -- isn't it essentially free advertising? Is it that there's a possibility that they can lose their copyright if for some reason they willingly choose not to enforce it? Is it some legal departments trying to pad their stats? Does anyone have insight?
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Aug 7, 2014 09:10
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You can lose your trademark if you don't defend it, but that's kinda different. Copyright law was created to promote the cultivation of new ideas, but copyright law as it is used now is mostly about control. Control over how consumers use and access content. I don't think it's about lost sales. There may be a couple of developers who feel that Twitch and LPs show the entire story of their game to consumers, thus no longer giving them an incentive to play the game, but the reality is, we are trending towards a future of multiplayer-only games, if we're not already there. Certainly MP-focused. And also people do play games for the gameplay too, or else every game would be Gone Home instead of it being the ugly duckling in the pond. But you said audio copyright holders, and I dunno. It's possible that Twitch just added ContentID because Google forced it on them, simply because That's How We Do It Here at Google. It may not have even been because of pressure placed on Twitch from record labels/RIAA (although Youtube's ContentID -was- because of pressure placed on them from MPAA). They would be right, that a public performance of their audio is infringement. But Twitch is muting human singing and developer audio too, so. I dunno, the RIAA may not be behind it. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 09:14
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1. I would be much happier if twitch wouldn't be run by a bunch of prepubertary furries. 2. That being said, I hope that googles buys twitch, so that it either gets completely worthless or actually becomes better in terms of quality, speed and video implemention. That being said, hitbox seems to be pretty promising so far.
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Aug 7, 2014 10:12
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stringball posted:This has been mentioned, but the hitbox owners are the same as own3d, who owe a good amount of people money I thought I read that the hitbox owners are from own3d but weren't the guys in charge when the scam happened? I do hope an alternative to Twitch springs up, it's not like this is even close to the first grievance people have had with that site.
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Aug 7, 2014 10:36
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Katana Gomai posted:But they did make the content and deserve a cut if some asshat child broadcasts their game to earn money, OP. Should I pay Spalding every time my high school basketball team makes money because they allowed me to use thier ball?
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Aug 7, 2014 11:06
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Honestly streamers need to take note from Destiny and just stop caring about ad revenue . What he did was genius and ahead of the curve. He moved his whole subscriber base to a personal website (Destiny.gg) and just uses twitch embedded, he can now basically move to anywhere he wants without losing any subs
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Aug 7, 2014 14:21
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Quest For Glory II posted:I wonder what this means for the charity marathons that use Twitch like AGDQ/ESA. You probably couldn't speedrun Vice City without the entirety of it being muted. I'm assuming they'll leave and go to Hitbox. most games have a slider / option to turn off ingame music, while leaving SFX on. depends on the game, but you could do that and play royalty free music in the background instead (which would even help lesser known musicians build their audiences).
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Aug 7, 2014 14:28
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Das Butterbrot posted:most games have a slider / option to turn off ingame music, while leaving SFX on. depends on the game, but you could do that and play royalty free music in the background instead (which would even help lesser known musicians build their audiences). this probably isn't even going to work either, apparently it's flagging DannyB's soundtrack in Crypt of the Necrodancer AHH FUGH posted:Here's another alternative: This is apparently ran by the guy who ran Ministry of Win house in Poland WHO ALSO OWES PEOPLE MONEY  Edit: http://blog.destiny.gg/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Lose-Yourself.mp3 Photex fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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