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Sprecherscrow
Dec 20, 2009


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-8GOrnTgAU

Yes, Chael is competing. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=804101706277015



Hello everyone and welcome to the GDT thread for Metamoris IV, the first BJJ/Submission Grappling event to possibly warrant it's own thread. Okay, I assume it will still mostly be posts from people who actually train grappling arts, but the Bravo/Royler card seemed to rope in more interest than usual and this card has Chael, so what the hell. Metamoris is not a standard BJJ competition however. Those have points. And winners.

The Rules:
- 20 Minute Time Limit
- If it goes the distance, it is automatically a draw. (At Metamoris II they used judges, but those are gone and most likely will not be back.)
- Heel Hooks only legal without the gi. (Not too sure about neck cranks and such. They've never really specified.)
- If a deep submission attempt is on at the time limit, the fight will continue until it is escaped or a tap occurs. This is at the ref's discretion. This hasn't come into play yet, though it arguably should've in the Bravo/Royler match.

Ostensibly these rules were designed to promote submissions, but thus far the promotions finish rate is 1/3rd (exactly 1/3rd. 6/18.)

How to watch: http://metamoris.com/live-stream
Do not pirate this. Aside from all the legal and ethical issues associated with piracy, these guys really need the support if they're going to keep doing this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Msb9AfMQ_XY

The Commentators:



Kenny Florian is a dude you've perhaps heard of. Prior to his MMA career, he was an active competitor in grappling tournaments, having a fair amount of success in NAGA and Grappler's Quest. He is a third degree BJJ black belt under Roberto Maia. He has really nice hair. That's about all you need to know with him.



Jeff Glover is a first degree BJJ Black Belt under Ricardo "Franjiha" Miller and an ADCC Bronze Medalist. He's one of the more entertaing BJJ competitors due to being loving crazy and pulling off all sorts of goofy rear end poo poo. (Here's a highlight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iB3EH6-VBE)If you want to convince people this sport isn't boring, he's a good guy to show people. He is one of the world's foremost experts on the deep half guard and by all accounts has a top notch Guillotine and D'arce. He recently competed while wearing a bright yellow Wolverine jump suit. His on screen demonstration of a hand grip during the Bravo/Royler match at the last event made Ralek Gracie's day. He is also the best grappler in the world who smokes tons of weed, believes in conspiracy theories, and uses the Twister. A narrow field, but a competitive one.

The Matches:


Andre Galvao VS. Chael Sonnen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_k0koqma8o

The match the NSAC doesn't want you to see. Maybe. Chael's lawyer is still trying to get a response from them. With both his MMA and Broadcast careers seemingly over, Chael has been training full time for this match. Galvao on the other hand is one of the world's absolute best grapplers, having one double gold at ADCC in 2011 and submitting Braulio Estima in the 2013 ADCC superfight, in addition to all his gi accomplishments including multiple world titles. This means that Chael has a lot of catching up to do. Galvao also has trained with Anderson Silva who presumably told him all he knows about grappling with Chael. It most likely won't make that big a difference, but it's worth noting. Chael will likely be able to take down Galvao at will, but that by itself is worth nothing in this match. Within Galvao's guard, he won't be able to use punches to create openings, but also won't leave openings while throwing punches. Exactly how well his non-MMA passing game has progressed is one of the more interesting question marks going into this bout. For trivia, Chael will be the first Metamoris competitor with no BJJ rank (Brendan Schaub the only prior non-black belt as a brown belt.)

Sprecherscrow's Stupid Prediction: Galvao should tap him. The possibility of Chael getting double leg after double leg and stalling out in guard for a draw exists, but more likely Galvao will be able to sweep him off his back and from bottom position Chael's likely going to be right hosed in this one. The chances of him tapping Galvao or even getting a dominant position are pretty dang low. But hey, maybe he's improved so much he's on Galvao's level now. I'd love to eat my words in this one.

Josh Barnett VS. Dean Lister

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBZZR8ooG9w

This match is for the inaugural Metamoris Heavyweight Championship, with Marcus "Buchecha" Almeida rumored to be the first challenger at Metamoris V. Lister is one of the world's absolute best grapplers with 2 ADCC gold medals under his belt, and arguably THE best in the world at leg locks. Barnett has focused more on MMA than grappling by a long shot, but did win IBJJF No-Gi worlds in '09. He started his grappling training under Erik Paulson in Catch Wrestling and as such is no slouch when it comes to leg locks.

Sprecherscrow's Stupid Prediction: A draw. Dean would be the favorite if there had to be a winner, but he's drawn in both of his prior Metamoris bouts, including against Babalu who is probably not quite as good as Barnett. Barnett's chances of winning are slim. I'm not sure when the last time Dean was tapped in competition, but I imagine it was more than a decade ago.

Saulo Ribeiro VS. Rodrigo "Comprido" Medeiros

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHJrBfO0BPY

Ribeiro is on the shortlist of all time greats of the sport with 5 World and 2 ADCC titles. Only three have more than five (his brother Xande with 6, Roger Gracie with 10, and Renato Laranja with 27), unless you count women (Hannette Staack has 7). He will also be the oldest competitor in the 5 announced matches at 39. Comprido is himself a 3 time champion. Of the five announced matches, this will likely be the only one to be a gi match.

Sprecherscrow's Stupid Prediction: Saulo. This was probably the hardest one to decide on a prediction. Comprido's bigger by a little, Saulo's more accomplished. All three possible results are plausible.

Keenan Cornelius VS. Vinny Magalhaes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FQgNc3fDHM

Keenan is kind of the "it boy" in BJJ right now. After escaping under the thumb of a certain rapist cult leader, he went to train under the above mentioned Andre Galvao at Atos Jiu Jitsu, who gave him his black belt. Since then, he's had some impressive showings, winning bronze medals in both weight and absolute at ADCC and a bronze at absolute at the worlds (he got dqed pretty early in his weight division bracket), and to the ire of self-defense oriented traditionalists, he keeps making up new guards with increasingly stupid names (won't be seen here as they are gi relient). At 21, this is insanity. He's the baby of the card this time out. Vinny is an ADCC gold medalist known more for some lackluster UFC performances and being on TUF. He also kind of poo poo the bed with the lights on at ADCC last year. This match was originally scheduled for the last event, but Vinny pulled out with a staph infection at the last second, leading to Kevin Casey stepping up to face (and lose to) Keenan on a half-hours notice. Vinny received his black belt in 2005 from Vinicius Aieta and Royler Gracie and received a black belt in 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu from Eddie Bravo in 2012. I point this out because I find the notion of having a black belt from both Royler and Eddie endlessly amusing.

Sprecherscrow's Stupid Prediction: A draw. Keenan's on fire and only getting better. Vinny hasn't been looking so great lately. However, Vinny is a lot bigger and probably still slightly more skilled. I can't really see either one getting the sub as a result.

Kit Dale VS. Garry Tonon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph7Rim2kAWo

Kit Dale is a black belt under Yuri Simoes. He does not believe in drilling and got into some kind of stupid Facebook argument about it. He looks like Erick Rowan. I don't really know much about him. Garry Tonon is a black belt under Tom Deblass. He made big waves last year at ADCC in a series of 3 matches that he lost (against Kron Gracie, Buchecha, and Cyborg Abreu) , delivering incredibly exciting performances. I'll leave it there with Garry since Fatherdog surely knows way more than me about the dude.

Sprecherscrow's Stupid Prediction: Garry. Tough call with how little I know about Kit, but I'm expecting Garry to deliver an overwhelming barrage of constant submission attempts and eventually something will slip through. If you're going to bet money on it though, probably bet draw. Actually, do that for every match. (Don't put money on this card.)

Secret Match

Impressively, the identity of neither competitor has leaked. At one point it was heavily rumored Florian was to compete, but he's still scheduled to commentate. I've heard it suggested that possibly Kenny and Glover will face each other, perhaps under gi rules while still wearing their suits. Perhaps of note is that currently no Gracies are scheduled to compete which would be a first for Metamoris. Don't get your hopes up for anything too cool since it'll have to be something they wouldn't feel would increase buys by being on the official card.

Sprecherscrow's Stupid Prediction: I don't loving know. Joe Rogan VS. Ed O'Neil, how about that?


Feel free to let me know how all my predictions and attempts at analysis are stupid, or better yet just ignore it all and watch the preview videos. The Metamoris guys put together some good packages.

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Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

Milquetoast


Kit Dale is really cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-dPw0Mmr84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpB5vFcHESE

Grifter
Jul 24, 2003

I do this technique called a suplex. You probably haven't heard of it, it's pretty obscure.

Excellent OP.

quote:

Josh Barnett VS. Dean Lister

...

Sprecherscrow's Stupid Prediction: A draw. Dean would be the favorite if there had to be a winner, but he's drawn in both of his prior Metamoris bouts, including against Babalu who is probably not quite as good as Barnett. Barnett's chances of winning are slim. I'm not sure when the last time Dean was tapped in competition, but I imagine it was more than a decade ago.
The internet seems to think that the last person to tap Lister in competition was Ricco Rodriguez, when they were both blue belts and there was a 100+ lb. weight difference. I can only seem to find this written on forums though.

quote:

Saulo Ribeiro VS. Rodrigo "Comprido" Medeiros

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHJrBfO0BPY

Ribeiro is on the shortlist of all time greats of the sport with 5 World and 2 ADCC titles. Only three have more than five (his brother Xande with 6, Roger Gracie with 10, and Renato Laranja with 27), unless you count women (Hannette Staack has 7). He will also be the oldest competitor in the 5 announced matches at 39. Comprido is himself a 3 time champion. Of the five announced matches, this will likely be the only one to be a gi match.

SpiritOfSanDimas
Oct 31, 2012


So theres a pretty good chance Barnett v Lister ends in a draw and no inaugural champion is crowned?

Grifter
Jul 24, 2003

I do this technique called a suplex. You probably haven't heard of it, it's pretty obscure.

I don't have much trouble imagining Barnett getting tapped by Lister (the reverse is very unlikely), but in this format there's always a chance for a draw. I'd say this is a pretty good pick for Metamoris in that if anything, there's a pretty good chance of Barnett getting tapped, and he's a pretty good "name" as far as grapplers go.

In the event of a draw they should have to alternate fighting on the mats and in Warhammer matches until a winner is clear.

Sprecherscrow
Dec 20, 2009


Grifter posted:

I don't have much trouble imagining Barnett getting tapped by Lister (the reverse is very unlikely), but in this format there's always a chance for a draw. I'd say this is a pretty good pick for Metamoris in that if anything, there's a pretty good chance of Barnett getting tapped, and he's a pretty good "name" as far as grapplers go.

In the event of a draw they should have to alternate fighting on the mats and in Warhammer matches until a winner is clear.

The Sub Grappling equivalent of chess boxing. I forgot to mention it in the OP, but on the Metamoris site, Barnett's age is listed as "War is ageless."

TheCool69
Sep 23, 2011


I mean they must have somekind of backup plan if a draw happens on a Championship fight.

LobsterMobster
Oct 29, 2009

"I was being quiet and trying to be a good boy but he dialed the right combination to open the throw-down vault and it was on."

"Walter Foxx is ten times brighter than your bulb at the bottom of the tree merry xmas"


TheCool69 posted:

I mean they must have somekind of backup plan if a draw happens on a Championship fight.

The belt is split in two like those best friends heart lockets.

This will be an issue when Josh and Dean make their way through Olmec's temple, though.

niethan
Nov 22, 2005

Don't be scared, homie!


Those videos are really good and funny

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

Milquetoast


TheCool69 posted:

I mean they must have somekind of backup plan if a draw happens on a Championship fight.

lol is this your first grappling event

TheCool69
Sep 23, 2011


Dangersim posted:

lol is this your first grappling event

No. I was hoping that since this is a ppv that they have some other solution than "welp"..

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

Milquetoast


TheCool69 posted:

No. I was hoping that since this is a ppv that they have some other solution than "welp"..

I mean they might but "let's just scramble to figure it out if it happens" is much more likely.

Bluedeanie
Jul 20, 2008

It's no longer a blue world, Max. Where could we go?


The secret match is gonna be Ed O'Neill vs. Mel Gibson as a promotion for Modern Family and Expendables 3 or whatever.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

someone proposed they should alternate side control for whatever number of minutes until someone wins. Coin flip to decide who goes first. Not bad, although personally I don't give a poo poo if every match ends in a draw because I am an adult.

Sprecherscrow
Dec 20, 2009


Xguard86 posted:

someone proposed they should alternate side control for whatever number of minutes until someone wins. Coin flip to decide who goes first. Not bad, although personally I don't give a poo poo if every match ends in a draw because I am an adult.

That's pretty much the ruleset for Eddie Bravo's submission only tournaments tiebreaker except they use the back and after however many rounds with no submission, whoever was able to escape faster (they combine the time from each round or something) wins. I'm hoping that here Ralek comes up and the match is decided by a round of applause for each fighter.

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009

I'm not just friends with a pedophile, I'm also hot for his disgusting feeder fetishist ex! ps I'm still a drug addict loser of the highest order and deserve to lose my job!

ahaha I can still hardly believe this pic exists and the reason its public

It's college football overtime rules.

Solomonic
Jan 3, 2008

INCIPIT SANTA


Dangersim posted:

lol is this your first grappling event

It's mine, at least live. I can follow grappling a little better now than when I first started watching MMA so I figure it's time to jump in the deep end and see new submissions named after weed paraphernalia.

I hope Chael shows up loaded with super soldier serum and goes the distance but I am prepared for cruel reality to crush my dreams.

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



Kit Dale spends more time making vines than training. Not that I really mind, some of them are pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OVMoBVkDvw

Triticum Guzzler
Jun 16, 2002


I don't pay attention to grappling but only from seeing his head and shoulders it appears as if Dean Lister has become the size of two Dean Listers

-Atom-
Sep 13, 2003

"He is unbeaten in two of his last three fights."


Ralek is really dropping the ball by not getting a sweet PED sponsor with Sonnen and Barnett at the top of the bill

Sprecherscrow
Dec 20, 2009


-Atom- posted:

Ralek is really dropping the ball by not getting a sweet PED sponsor with Sonnen and Barnett at the top of the bill

Sonnen is probably on less juice than Galvao.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

*RONK, RONK*
Make that three rard-boiled eggs.


Sprecherscrow posted:

Kit Dale VS. Garry Tonon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph7Rim2kAWo

Kit Dale is a black belt under Yuri Simoes. He does not believe in drilling and got into some kind of stupid Facebook argument about it. He looks like Erick Rowan. I don't really know much about him. Garry Tonon is a black belt under Tom Deblass. He made big waves last year at ADCC in a series of 3 matches that he lost (against Kron Gracie, Buchecha, and Cyborg Abreu) , delivering incredibly exciting performances. I'll leave it there with Garry since Fatherdog surely knows way more than me about the dude.

I've trained with Garry for years but there isn't really that much to say about him because as far as I can tell literally all he does is eat, sleep and train.

He's spent the last couple years getting scarily good at leglocks (an accolade that I don't give out lightly, as leglocks are one of my strong points and I'm incredibly snooty about it) and his cardio is impeccable (just try and pecc it - you can't) so I would expect an extremely fast-paced and scrambly match unless Dale is way better at locking down positions than he appears.

On a side note, when he competed in ADCC he'd been a black belt for less than a month.


Triticum Guzzler posted:

I don't pay attention to grappling but only from seeing his head and shoulders it appears as if Dean Lister has become the size of two Dean Listers

Yeah it's honestly pretty ridiculous, when he had his match with babalu it looked like his traps ended just below his ears. I've been trying to come up with a nickname better than "Neck Crankenstein"

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Part of my training entailed getting the enemy to communicate.

The secret fight is CM Punk v Ed O'Neil.

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009



Some back ground on Kit Dale:

Used to be a bit of a chubby smoker who drank piss and didn't do much with himself. Decided he wanted to get fit and went along with a mate of his to a BJJ class. Got a BJJ Boner pretty much straight away and has been competing ever since. I'm pretty sure he got his black belt very quickly, might have only been 4 or 5 years.

BJJ credentials: 2x World Pro BJJ champion, Brazilian National Champion, Asian Open Champion, Bull Terrior Copa Champion, 2X Silver World Pro Jiu Jitsu, Pan American Bronze, 14X Pan Pacific Champion, 9X Australian National Champion

He also competed against Keenan Cornellius in what was a very, very close match. The thing about drilling is what he claims helped him progress so quickly through bjj. His philosophy is more or less learn a technique and then apply it practising timing and strategy over specific moves when rolling rather than dedicating yourself to drilling the technique over and over. This is something Cornelius stresses too.

He's competed against Paulo Miyao (lost to on advantage given in the last 5 seconds) I think at the mundials and won a lot of silver. I'm not sure how he stacks up but he's a real darkhorse in this one to win by submission imo.

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

*RONK, RONK*
Make that three rard-boiled eggs.


BlindSite posted:

He's competed against Paulo Miyao (lost to on advantage given in the last 5 seconds) I think at the mundials and won a lot of silver. I'm not sure how he stacks up but he's a real darkhorse in this one to win by submission imo.

I've never actually seen Kit compete, but based on his record I would say that his level is actually very similar to Garry's; to wit, obviously world class, and competitive against elite competitors, but so far has yet to actually win against an elite competitor.

That said I would be shocked if he submitted Garry, given that Buchecha didn't manage it.

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

Milquetoast


Lid posted:

The secret fight is CM Punk v Ed O'Neil.

I hope this is a joke because CM Punk is a white belt and Ed O'Neil is legitimately a black belt.

Yuriy
Dec 25, 2006

JOIN US IN #MMA FOR ZUTROY'S COMBAT SILO

Dangersim posted:

I hope this is a joke because CM Punk is a white belt and Ed O'Neil is legitimately a black belt.

it is

LobsterMobster
Oct 29, 2009

"I was being quiet and trying to be a good boy but he dialed the right combination to open the throw-down vault and it was on."

"Walter Foxx is ten times brighter than your bulb at the bottom of the tree merry xmas"


Dangersim posted:

I hope this is a joke because CM Punk is a white belt and Ed O'Neil is legitimately a black belt.

I thought Punk was all "i'm a forever white belt, i'll never accept a promotion because i'm always learning" or some shenanigans.

the secret match should be renato laranja vs joe rogan

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

These are all great secret matches and I will be sad when they do not happen.

Dean lister's body fascinates me. I've never seen anyone built like that, he's like so dense with muscle but kinda rounded off. Like a killer whale. He also has the biggest forearms and wrists I've ever seen.

...no homo?

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

Milquetoast


LobsterMobster posted:

I thought Punk was all "i'm a forever white belt, i'll never accept a promotion because i'm always learning" or some shenanigans.

fuckin sandbagger

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009



fatherdog posted:

I've never actually seen Kit compete, but based on his record I would say that his level is actually very similar to Garry's; to wit, obviously world class, and competitive against elite competitors, but so far has yet to actually win against an elite competitor.

That said I would be shocked if he submitted Garry, given that Buchecha didn't manage it.

I saw him steam roll all comers at the pan pacific championships last year. He didn't look like he got out of second gear. He's got a really, really effective passing game, and is deceptively fast in his transition. The only guy he didn't tap on his way to winning the championships he smashed on points.

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



fatherdog posted:

I've trained with Garry for years but there isn't really that much to say about him because as far as I can tell literally all he does is eat, sleep and train.

Tonon's match against Kron was loving awesome and it was definitely possible that he could've won.

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



Gary "Almost Beat Kron" Tonon vs Kit "Almost Beat Keenan" Dale

henkman
Oct 8, 2008

EXCUSE ME WHILE I SLASH MY WRISTS WITH OCCAM'S RAZOR


Lister looks loving huge

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

*RONK, RONK*
Make that three rard-boiled eggs.


Lister is loving huge

colonel_korn
May 16, 2003

Good Nuz, Everyone!

I wonder if his, ah, diet changed at all after his MMA career ended, because I don't remember him looking nearly that big when he fought in the UFC.

e:

Dangersim
Sep 4, 2011

Milquetoast


He's on steroids guys

Sprecherscrow
Dec 20, 2009


I looked at some odds on this as a curiosity: http://www.gamblerspalace.com/lines...ing-odds-to-win


Again, I strongly recommend against putting money on this card, but a positive line on a draw in the Barnett/Lister match is very attractive.

origami
Jun 24, 2011



http://instagram.com/p/rbGyPZFC96/

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masato tatanka
Apr 22, 2010

oooo yeeaaa


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