|
Whispering Machines posted:
Yeah, I assume the doctor could get the same high off some easily obtained pharmaceuticals, but the den does provide him with some nice perks and atmosphere.
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2014 20:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 15:38 |
|
|
TheRationalRedditor posted:I have a powerful hunch that flashbacks of their time together are going to play a big part going forward this season Episode 2 confirmed your hunch and this pleases me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 00:53
|
|
|
Antti posted:Episode 2 confirmed your hunch and this pleases me. The juxtaposed "class struggle" framing of the opening was way hackneyed, and they're laying the racial tension on a bit thick at every available opportunity, but I'm sticking with this show. It looks and sounds too drat cool!
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 10:04
|
|
|
TheRationalRedditor posted:and they're laying the racial tension on a bit thick at every available opportunity This was annoying me until I realized, hey, it's 1900s new york. A black man at that time experienced racial tension at every available opportunity (just like today!) so
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 13:48
|
|
|
Fateo McMurray posted:This was annoying me until I realized, hey, it's 1900s new york. A black man at that time experienced racial tension at every available opportunity (just like today!) so At the time it had only been a few decades from black men in NY having to worry about being abducted and sold into slavery in the South. The one doctor trying to make friends with Algernon is extremely progressive given the social climate at the time. Of course he's the only doctor at the Knick who is willing to admit that the new black doctor from Europe who's trained under some of the best in the world should be given due credit for his background, but the other 2 will probably make racist comments for the rest of the season.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 14:16
|
|
|
TheRationalRedditor posted:The juxtaposed "class struggle" framing of the opening was way hackneyed, and they're laying the racial tension on a bit thick at every available opportunity, but I'm sticking with this show. It looks and sounds too drat cool! I'm more or less in the same boat as you. I love the production behind the show and I think all of the characters are pretty solid so far, but none of the storylines are really grabbing me. Besides the general feeling of 'Holy poo poo medicine was terrifying back then', the two ambulance dudes have been the most interesting characters for me. I'm nowhere near dropping this show, but hopefully they start spending a little less time going 'Look at how different things were in 1900, isn't it craaazy??' and start actually developing the characters or putting them into more interesting arcs than 'Guy with gambling problem' and 'white doctors don't like black doctor'.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 14:22
|
|
|
pentyne posted:At the time it had only been a few decades from black men in NY having to worry about being abducted and sold into slavery in the South. Rest of the shows life probably. If you're gonna have a black character during this time period you are going to have to explode/discuss racism. Having all the white people instantly accept him wouldn't have fit the time period.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 16:13
|
|
|
I wish they didn't have the race relations angle at all. Its not new and the characters are aggravating from a 21st century perspective. Maybe its because I'm also watching Masters of Sex and they are dealing with the same themes in a 1950s hospital. I just want to scream at these characters sometimes. I'd much rather they focus on the workings of a hospital during that period and the (non-racial) politics surrounding that. That's something I haven't seen before.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 20:03
|
|
|
Kung Fu Jesus posted:I'd much rather they focus on the workings of a hospital during that period and the (non-racial) politics surrounding that. That's something I haven't seen before. What are you going to do, then? Have a conspicuously all white cast that only ever meaningfully interacts with other white people? If you purposefully ignore racial issues in a period drama like this it just comes off like you're actively avoiding the issue.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 20:51
|
|
|
Paradoxish posted:What are you going to do, then? Have a conspicuously all white cast that only ever meaningfully interacts with other white people? If you purposefully ignore racial issues in a period drama like this it just comes off like you're actively avoiding the issue. Would it really be unbelievable for a hospital drama centering on surgeons and hospital administrators in 1900 New York to have an all-white cast? I don't think they're obligated to engage all the hot-button social issues of the day just because their story takes place in the past, and the Edwards storyline is definitely the one that feels the least fresh to me so far..
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 21:39
|
|
|
Fateo McMurray posted:This was annoying me until I realized, hey, it's 1900s new york. A black man at that time experienced racial tension at every available opportunity (just like today!) so Now it's only 2 episodes deep so there's plenty of time to improve. But so far it's a serious character conflict being addressed with shallow, boilerplate lip service, which means that it feels jarringly out of tune with the rest of the confident, assured proceedings. TheRationalRedditor fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Aug 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 22:28
|
|
|
What exactly are people finding inauthentic about this show's portrayal of race relations in the 1900s? I mean, at the Harlem Hospital in the 1920s, they integrated a few black nurses and there was a mass exodus of white nurses in protest; later, when they hired their first black surgeon, a number of white doctors resigned in protest and the guy who hired the black surgeon was promptly demoted. If anything, I'd say Thack's response to Edwards presence has been a bit muted; it's mostly a casual, matter-of-fact racism (which in certain respects is worse, but also probably truer to the character of a highly educated man like Thack).
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 00:18
|
|
|
If you don't like it blame your white racist ancestors and not the show. Or if you want a look at medieval medical techniques with no dark people ruining the fun, Outlander's looking to be a pretty good show on Starz. If you can get past theScottish accents.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 02:00
|
|
|
This is a good show, the person responsible for the special effects in the surgeries should get an award.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 04:10
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:If you don't like it blame your white racist ancestors and not the show. Woah this thread got off to a bad start. Anyways it's been only episodes one and two on a somewhat large core cast. Give it a bit to get the stiffer wheels rolling.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 07:12
|
|
|
Uh oh, portraying turn of the last century racism is making the white people uncomfortable. I guess we better whitewash the show and pretend things like this never happened! Ok, sure. You could argue that the portrayal could be better implemented, but personally, I'm not seeing anything glaringly unrealistic happening here. Any of you want to explain exactly where the problem is?
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 07:36
|
|
|
I don't necessarily find it inauthentic, just well-worn territory that interests me less than the hospital politics, etc. Examining race relations throughout history is a worthwhile endeavor and can make many shows better (Copper did basically this same storyline to great effect, for example), but it doesn't belong in all period pieces and I think this one would be better if it was less of a focus. It doesn't make me uncomfortable as much as bored. I actually liked Thack's reaction in the pilot, which was essentially "Hiring a black surgeon is a terrible idea because our white patients (the rich ones you all seem to want) will hate it, and also I want my friend and colleague to have the job instead." It was still draped in some racist ideology, but it gave Thack a unique kind of twist. You get the sense that he would be at least 90% as much of an rear end in a top hat to any doctor that had been forced on him regardless of race. ruddiger posted:If you don't like it blame your white racist ancestors and not the show. It's close, but recommending Outlander is probably the worst thing about this post.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 07:43
|
|
|
ShakeZula posted:I don't necessarily find it inauthentic, just well-worn territory that interests me less than the hospital politics, etc. Examining race relations throughout history is a worthwhile endeavor and can make many shows better (Copper did basically this same storyline to great effect, for example), but it doesn't belong in all period pieces and I think this one would be better if it was less of a focus. It doesn't make me uncomfortable as much as bored. Are you kidding? Copper was fun but its portrayal of race relations was awful. A black man at that time beating up a white man in broad daylight would have drawn out the lynch mob. Moreover if anything the race relations of this show have been too meek. As highlighted above, you would have seen mass resignations on the hiring of Algernon. I did however like the tension between blacks depicted here. Unfortunately, this show can't do what deadwood did and have the giant racist be a giant fool and draw the hate away from the black people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 00:39
|
|
|
How did we go from the racial stuff being well worn and boring territory to white people are uncomfortable and angry about showing race relations in 10 posts? Some of you need to get a grip. Some people find the race stuff too broad or whatever. I don't really feel that way. I just find it boring and don't think the show can show or tell me anything about the issue that I Have not already seen 100 times before. I still enjoy the show. And actually, the Algernon character is my favorite, after seeing this last episode.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 04:06
|
|
|
I'm digging this show a lot, and was really sad to find the thread buried on the second page. My favorite thing is the music.  Also, gently caress getting sick at the turn of the century, drat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 17:22
|
|
|
I am genuinely surprised that I'm liking this non-classical soundtrack as much as I am.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 17:58
|
|
|
I love the super long takes where the camera moves around the table, focusing back and forth from the doctors to the patient. Really digging this show.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 20:36
|
|
|
On a lighter note, was this all anyone else could think about during the hallway scene? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HowmixqNE0k
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 21:38
|
|
|
the nicker posted:I love the super long takes where the camera moves around the table, focusing back and forth from the doctors to the patient. Really digging this show. Absolutely. In the last episode, the scene where the camera followed hospital manager as he closed the blinds while we hear the doctors chat was excellent. Sodenbergh is having a ton of fun with all the sets he gets to work with on this show. Can't wait to see more of the Knickerbocker hospital but especially some more scenes in bars and down and dirty boarding houses. And to think I was initially writing this show off when I heard CINEMAX was making this....
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 19:13
|
|
|
Kung Fu Jesus posted:How did we go from the racial stuff being well worn and boring territory to white people are uncomfortable and angry about showing race relations in 10 posts? Some of you need to get a grip. Because "racism is boring" sounds like a dog whistle for unconscious racists. At best its the kind of comment a child would make about something s/he doesn't understand (especially to declare that you have nothing to learn about race relations from this show after only 2 episodes). Moltke fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Aug 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
No one said that though. He's referring to any goon who misinterprets a valid early criticism of a nascent show and then reacts like an embarrassing spaz based entirely upon their misunderstanding. It's like the gawker "journalism" of posting.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 22:49
|
|
|
TheRationalRedditor posted:No one said that though. He's referring to any goon who misinterprets a valid early criticism of a nascent show and then reacts like an embarrassing spaz based entirely upon their misunderstanding. It's like the gawker "journalism" of posting. It's not a valid criticism and is mildly offensive. Period dramas that strive for authenticity have a responsibility not to whitewash the past when they choose to include minority characters. Please go back to the suburbs. edit - There is nothing "clumsy" or "broad" about the casual racism that's been portrayed on The Knick. It's quite narrowly centered on Dr. Edwards and his travails in the medical profession. If anything it's been greatly understated and shown more insidiously with no overt racists ranting about the inferiority of black people; just regular people doing lovely things in everyday life - like the nurse sternly turning away the injured woman. There's no scene and no anger - just a coldly enforced policy. Even today in New York, less than a mile of sidewalk separates some of the most opulent and expensive buildings in the world from moldy, ramshackle tenements where disease, violence, and murder are not uncommon. If you feel like the media are beating you over the head with the same story, it's because the problem hasn't gone away! Moltke fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Aug 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:45
|
|
|
Better call people racist about it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:52
|
|
|
Fooz posted:Better call people racist about it. Sorry I forgot that racism is over if you're smart enough.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2014 23:56
|
|
|
Moltke posted:
No way, I refuse to believe this.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 00:42
|
|
|
savinhill posted:No way, I refuse to believe this. You can have lunch with the Koch Brothers at their home on park avenue between 68th and 69th, then get dinner with fellow billionaire and former mayor Michael Bloomberg at his 79th st mansion, then walk 23 blocks (15 minutes) and still make it home in time to get shot in the head in your rotting NYCHA housing unit. 96th st divides East Harlem (diversity) from the Upper East Side (only white people) and it is colloquially known as "the equator." Moltke fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Aug 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 00:53
|
|
|
I find it funny that people are complaining that the portrayal of racism of blacks is tired and boring yet everyone loves the constantly used portrayal of Asians from the time period as whoremongers/gamblers/gangsters. But then again, opium dens, Asian titties and references to Deadwood 
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 01:01
|
|
|
To take away from racism chat, I did like the mirroring story lines of the white lady dying of cancer and the black woman with the arm that needed to get drained both completely oblivious about their medical needs and more worried about missing their shift and going to work instead. poo poo was hosed up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 01:07
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:To take away from racism chat, I did like the mirroring story lines of the white lady dying of cancer and the black woman with the arm that needed to get drained both completely oblivious about their medical needs and more worried about missing their shift and going to work instead. poo poo was hosed up. ummm, that's still 100% accurate in modern medicine....
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 02:12
|
|
|
Not to mention the 7 year old daughter who had to get to her shift. I don't think people even started caring about child labor laws for like, another five years, at least. Next episode looks to be the one involving a lady Thackery knows who had her nose destroyed by syphilis. And, judging by a bit in one of the first trailers, she undergoes a weird graft operation where her arm is sewn to her nose. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 02:16
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:I find it funny that people are complaining that the portrayal of racism of blacks is tired and boring yet everyone loves the constantly used portrayal of Asians from the time period as whoremongers/gamblers/gangsters. But then again, opium dens, Asian titties and references to Deadwood Fooz posted:Better call people racist about it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 02:44
|
|
|
TheRationalRedditor posted:It's the godwin's law of the web 2.0 age. PROBATION 11/24/08 02:42pm TheRationalRedditor Anti semitism. User loses posting privileges for 3 days. PROBATION 10/17/04 06:03pm TheRationalRedditor Mild racism is still racism. User loses posting privileges for 6 hours. No, I think I'm sensing a pattern with you. edit - To clarify, you are a racist and this is objectively verifiable. Please stop posting. Moltke fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Aug 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 07:19
|
|
|
eh, the chunk of text that was here isn't really relevant to this show. ANYWAYS I really hope they work some background history into the show. I know we already missed the Chicago's World Fair ceremonies but they've kind of hinted at it with the advent of lights and electricity and the St. Louis expo is in 1903 and since they mentioned the lack of cadavers, the (possible) influx of African American patients could be worked in story-wise as a cache of much needed cadavers for the surgeons at the knick. I'm really excited to see where this show is headed, even without the foresight of where we've ultimately ended up. ruddiger fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Aug 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 09:30
|
|
|
Whispering Machines posted:Not to mention the 7 year old daughter who had to get to her shift. I don't think people even started caring about child labor laws for like, another five years, at least. This is a historical (like, 1500s historical) procedure to try to get the skin to grow from the arm to the nose: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_syphilis#mediaviewer/File:De_curtorum_chirurgia_8.jpg
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 13:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 15:38 |
|
|
That kind of procedure was used for hundreds of years after for grafting I think. PS You guys would love the BBC Michael Mosley documentaries if you want to learn about historical medicine.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2014 15:11
|
|
