It's a robot, not a horse - Super Robot Wars: Original Generations

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > It's a robot, not a horse - Super Robot Wars: Original Generations

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Onmi: Jul 12, 2013; If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

TheLastRoboKy posted:

One of my absolute favourite moments in the entire game is coming up this mission. I've been looking forwards to it this whole time.

This mission is brought down by only one thing.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 14:58

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 06:55

Brunom1: Sep 5, 2011; Ask me about being the best dad ever.

AtomikKrab posted:

Ryusei is also a powerful as loving poo poo psychodriver and can probably block her?

I wonder how powerful he actually is in comparison to Kusuha.

Considering she is pretty much the canon Alpha protagonist, all Psychodriver-based original events there can be assigned to her. Which means she, for instance, singlehandedly held out the Angel Halo after Ryusei and Akira were overwhelmed by it (if I'm remembering this right...it's been a long time).

But something can be said about Ryusei's powers not being fully realized until Alpha 3 actually rolls over... He might tie with her at that point.

Regardless, I reckon OGs Kusuha is about the 4th strongest Psychodriver around, losing only to (spoilers for other games' OG stuff) Irui, Ing and Augustus?

# ? Aug 14, 2016 15:17

Rabidredneck: Oct 30, 2010; Not pleasant when angered.

"Tetsuya wonders how Lee could have lost faith in them so completely"

Oh Tetsuya, that implies that Lee had ANY faith in you AT ALL; you big kind-hearted lug...

# ? Aug 14, 2016 15:25

Seyser Koze: Dec 15, 2013; Mucho Mucho; Nap Ghost

BlitzBlast posted:

There is really no reason to be so secretive about Mai having Levi's memories beyond ~drama~.

It's not like the Steel Dragons have ever really cared that much about recruiting former enemies.

Well, there is a bit of a difference between "once was an underling in an enemy organization, believing that it was the best hope of protecting Earth" and "has repressed memories of being an alien invader who tried to enslave all of humanity and turn Earth into a breeding farm for drone soldiers."

# ? Aug 14, 2016 15:44

Ashram: Oct 20, 2013

Brunom1 posted:

I wonder how powerful he actually is in comparison to Kusuha.

Considering she is pretty much the canon Alpha protagonist, all Psychodriver-based original events there can be assigned to her. Which means she, for instance, singlehandedly held out the Angel Halo after Ryusei and Akira were overwhelmed by it (if I'm remembering this right...it's been a long time).

But something can be said about Ryusei's powers not being fully realized until Alpha 3 actually rolls over... He might tie with her at that point.

Regardless, I reckon OGs Kusuha is about the 4th strongest Psychodriver around, losing only to (spoilers for other games' OG stuff) Irui, Ing and Augustus?

I think Mai is high up there as well...considering that barrier that protected the White Star in OG1 was her Barrier (also Alpha 3 events related to a certain unit)

# ? Aug 14, 2016 15:46

AradoBalanga: Jan 3, 2013

Seyser Koze posted:

I think it's pretty clear that she does realize, but trusts him enough that if he says he needs more time, she'll give him more time.

C: You can detect attacking enemies five seconds before they would've revealed themselves anyway.

Which should actually be a pretty big deal, given that that's basically the entire concept of a Gundam Newtype, but the story doesn't treat it like that.

Yeah, this is what I was referring to. Aya should at least sense Ryusei and Rai (and also Mai, for that matter) walking up to the room and put a lid on the conversation with Radha. Like, you can sense enemies approaching, but not your own people approaching, including the two with similar psychic powers as your own? A little consistency would be nice.

As for Kusuha, on a second look I'd guess that she assumes "Oh, he's just heard about Mai as well. Maybe he's trying to find answers as well." but the game does not really convey that. It's not helped by opening the conversation with one of her sad portraits instead of say, a neutral expression.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 18:25

MarsDragon: Apr 27, 2010; "You've all learned something very important here: there are things in this world you just can't change!"

Ashram posted:

I think Mai is high up there as well...considering that barrier that protected the White Star in OG1 was her Barrier (also Alpha 3 events related to a certain unit)

The basic split between Mai and Aya is that Mai is super powerful but can't control it, and Aya is (relatively) weak but the most trained and experienced Psychodriver in the EFA.

Actually determining Psychodriver power level besides rough lists is hard because the games really don't care about establishing that stuff. Anyone who hits TK level 9 is assumed to be hella powerful (Ryusei, Kusuha, Ryoto, Mai, Ing, Irui, probably Ruach, can't remember about Hazel and Ace) but there's no set hierarchy within that. Alpha 3 implies Ryusei can get more powerful than he ever did in Alpha, meanwhile Alpha Kusuha is full-on Psychodriver Jesus. OG so far hasn't gone in for any big displays of Psychodriver power on the level of Alpha, so it's even harder to make judgments there.

But again, none of them ever really do anything outside the cockpit. It's entirely possible TK power really means you can interface with a T-LINK System, because they really don't sense things without one. I might be forgetting an incident or two, but I can't think of any times a Psychodriver has sensed intentions or whatever without a T-LINK System backing them up. Spoilers for other games: Now that I think about it, some stuff Irui pulls could be called that...but that's Irui.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 19:44

GimmickMan: Dec 27, 2011

There's one more character who does stuff outside of the cockpit but that's two more games from now.

Ing remotely controls the Ashe into combat, dodging attacks until he can get to the cockpit before riding it for the first time. It is a robot-related thing but he isn't technically piloting it! Still not as bullshit as that time he transported all of the Sexbein's upgrade components towards the mech and assembled it with the power of his mind, but that time he was riding it so it is not as relevant.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 20:54

MarsDragon: Apr 27, 2010; "You've all learned something very important here: there are things in this world you just can't change!"

GimmickMan posted:

There's one more character who does stuff outside of the cockpit but that's two more games from now.

Ing remotely controls the Ashe into combat, dodging attacks until he can get to the cockpit before riding it for the first time. It is a robot-related thing but he isn't technically piloting it! Still not as bullshit as that time he transported all of the Sexbein's upgrade components towards the mech and assembled it with the power of his mind, but that time he was riding it so it is not as relevant.

That upgrade is pretty much just the Huckebein Mk III event from Alpha, isn't it? Mixed with a bit of Variable Formation. It's really not the most bullshit thing psychodrivers have ever done, though it might be the most bullshit in OG.

Point taken about the Ashe, though.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 21:01

GimmickMan: Dec 27, 2011

MarsDragon posted:

That upgrade is pretty much just the Huckebein Mk III event from Alpha, isn't it? Mixed with a bit of Variable Formation. It's really not the most bullshit thing psychodrivers have ever done, though it might be the most bullshit in OG.

I have no idea about the Huckebein upgrade event from alpha, but the SRX is designed to assemble itself on the spot and it puts a lot of strain on Aya, who has been trained to do that from the start of the SRX project. Ing does it on his own with equipment Robert and Kirk were going to put together the old fashioned way, while being attacked by two enemy aces, and even configures the OS as a bonus. If that's what happens in Alpha then wow, poor Ryoto got screwed over hard in OG.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 21:18

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

GimmickMan posted:

wow, poor Ryoto got screwed over hard in OG.

That's the story of his life. Only Rio gets it worse.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 21:20

Rigged Death Trap: Feb 13, 2012; BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

GimmickMan posted:

I have no idea about the Huckebein upgrade event from alpha, but the SRX is designed to assemble itself on the spot and it puts a lot of strain on Aya, who has been trained to do that from the start of the SRX project. Ing does it on his own with equipment Robert and Kirk were going to put together the old fashioned way, while being attacked by two enemy aces, and even configures the OS as a bonus. If that's what happens in Alpha then wow, poor Ryoto got screwed over hard in OG.

Then again Said character is the biggest mary sue/sasuke in the entire OG

# ? Aug 14, 2016 23:19

MarsDragon: Apr 27, 2010; "You've all learned something very important here: there are things in this world you just can't change!"

GimmickMan posted:

I have no idea about the Huckebein upgrade event from alpha, but the SRX is designed to assemble itself on the spot and it puts a lot of strain on Aya, who has been trained to do that from the start of the SRX project. Ing does it on his own with equipment Robert and Kirk were going to put together the old fashioned way, while being attacked by two enemy aces, and even configures the OS as a bonus. If that's what happens in Alpha then wow, poor Ryoto got screwed over hard in OG.

It's been forever since I played the Alpha real route, but it's something like Big Fire and Dr Hell attack the base, MC launches in the Mk II but gets beaten, activates the Uranus System, then summons the partially-complete Mk III from the hanger, shoves the Mk II's cockpit block into it because why not, and it all works perfectly. I thought they summoned the Boxer or Gunner frames too, but looks like it's the standard Mk III.

So I guess it's closer to the Ashe than the Exexbein but it's still a level of bullshit beyond what Ryoto gets to do in OG and comparable to Ing's poo poo. The OG upgrade event is massively toned down.

# ? Aug 14, 2016 23:47

Seyser Koze: Dec 15, 2013; Mucho Mucho; Nap Ghost

No surprises in the objectives, and no battle mastery yet either.

It's just Mai versus a pack of Guarlions. There's Agilla's Killer Whale as well, although it won't be doing anything of note during the mission.

Also, this plays throughout the first part of the mission. If they were really so worried about her remembering that she's Levi, you'd think they'd get her some new theme music. :colbert:

Mai's piloting the Wildwurger Type-L, a secret mech that we've managed to unlock. Partially, at least. We're not done yet.

Secret Mech
On Mission 26, Arado must kill at least four Gespensts before moving next to Seolla
Arado must have at last 50 kills by the end of Mission 33

If we hadn't met the requirements, Mai would be in an MP Huckebein now. Thank god that didn't happen, huh?Functionally, the Wurger-L is just like the normal Wurger, except for one key difference.

The Type-L has the same weapons as the blue version, with one addition.

Remember a couple missions ago when Lamia (RIP) got zapped by an Einst and was unable to do anything, not even move, for an entire turn? That weapon is at the top of the list here. It's called Stun Shock. Hit an enemy with this, and they can't move. They can't counterattack. And since we've already seen how the bosses in this game can gently caress you up, that makes Stun Shock awesome.

We want it. We need it. And we have to finish earning the Wurger to get it.

The process to get it is pretty straightforward...

...But not without its share of annoyances. Mai's dodge rate in the unupgraded Wurger-L is not great, even with Focus, and being knocked below 40% health triggers the next event, which means you miss your chance at the secret.

The good news is that if you're not attacking in melee, the Guarlion's hitrates are more reasonable. Some of them will use Spider Net, which has a higher hitrate but does negligible damage. In the end I only need to reset once (and unfortunately, savescumming is really your only option here) and spend a little time enjoying the Wurger's animations with a different coat of paint.

Five kills later...

Secret Mech (complete)
On Mission 26, Arado must kill at least four Gespensts before moving next to Seolla
Arado must have at last 50 kills by the end of Mission 33
On Mission 34, Mai must destroy five Guarlions before allied reinforcements arrive

:toot:

The DC commander is furious that one mech is giving his underlings so much trouble. Agilla, on the other hand, is delighted to see such a high-quality pilot. She sends Ouka out to retrieve the pilot for study at the Earth cradle.

Ouka: "If you value your life, you'll stop resisting and come with me."

Mai: "I don't care what happens to me! If I can just help Aya, then---"
Agilla: (...! That subject is still alive!? How is it possible?)
Ouka: "Very well. In that case..."

Ouka: "That was your final warning. Please, stop this."
Mai: "No! I don't want to be their enemy!"
Ouka: "...Enemy?"
Mai: "If that's what'll happen, then I'd rather die fighting here!"
Ouka: "You poor, silly child. How about this, then?"

"Don't worry... Mother has asked me not to kill you."

Mai continues to struggle, but to no avail; the Wurger has been disabled. Agilla regrets destroying a new machine, but the pilot is what's truly important here. This one happens to be a seed she planted a long time ago. The news surprises Seolla, although Ouka just prepares to recover their prize.

But help is always on the way.

Mai: "R-Ryusei!?"
Ryusei: :kamina:

Mai: "But... why? I fought against you..."
Ryusei: "You're not doing it now, are you?"
Mai: "...!"
Ryusei: "And you won't. You're one of us now."
Mai: "But... I can't join you or Aya or the others... I shouldn't even be alive. I should be dead..."

Aya: "Don't you dare say that!"
Mai: "!"
Aya: "Father and I didn't wake you up so you could turn around and die!"
Mai: "But I---"

Aya: "I'm sorry we didn't tell you the truth... and I'm sorry that we put you in a Personal Trooper."
Mai: "....."
Aya: "But we need your power. To protect countless people... so humanity can survive."

Latooni and the others catch up, and are relieved to see that they made it in time. Seolla does her usual upon seeing Arado again, and Ouka says that today's the day they bring Lat home...

Agilla: "Wait, Aurum 1."
Latooni: "D-Doctor Setme!?"
Arado: "Agilla? What's the old bag doing out here!?"
Agilla: "Heh heh heh... it's been quite a while, Latun 11."
Latooni: "...!"

Ryusei: "Latun... Eleven...!?"
Agilla: "Her real name. She's number 11 of the Latun class... so, Latun 11."
Ryusei: "What!?"
Latooni: "....."

Agilla: "A test sample scarcely needs a name. I leave that foolishness to Cuervo Cero and Kenzo Kobayashi."
Ryusei: "Kobayashi!? What the hell?"
Aya: "F... Father?"
Agilla: "Names are little more than junk data. Wasteful, detrimental to research. For a test subject, a number will suffice."
Aya: "...!"
Ryusei: "No way... you're saying Aya was at the School, too?"
Agilla: "No, no. She was a test subject during my time at the Institute for Cerebral Science."
Aya: "ICS? No, you couldn't have---"

Agilla: "Heh heh heh... you forgot all about me. Or rather, your memories of me were erased... Number 7."
Aya: "!!"

Agilla: "...And Number 5."
Mai: "Number... Five? You mean, me!?"
Agilla: "Quite so. I never expected to see you alive, after the explosion at the Institute. The one you caused."
Mai: "Huh!?"
Aya: "Th-that was..."
Agilla: "Oh? You still remember that, Number 7... heh heh heh. So our program didn't erase the trauma I gave you."
Aya: "P-Program? Trauma!?"

Agilla: "Yes. All the memories in your heads were placed there by Kenzo and I... to ensure that you would obey us while we developed the T-LINK system. Traumatic events are a driver for telekinetic power."
Aya: "!!"
Mai: "!!"

Ryusei: "What the hell are you talking about!?"
Agilla: "Heh heh heh... do you see, Number 5, Number 7? You're not sisters. You're not even Kenzo's daughters."
Aya: "That's not... I have memories! My mother, and Mai! My... my childhood...!?"
Agilla: "Nothing but fiction... every last one of them."
Aya: "Y-you're lying... you're..."

Aya: "You're lying! YOU'RE LYING!"

Agilla: "Heh heh heh... that's a fine reaction, Number 7. Did you enjoy the memories I crafted for you? After all, for over a decade, you've never once questioned that they were genuine."
Aya: "Stop it! Stop!!"
Agilla: "...Then I'll tell you something else, Number 7. You interface with the T-LINK System on a regular basis. Do you know why that is?"
Aya: "Uh... uhhh!"

Agilla: "The T-LINK is your shackles - shackles Kenzo and I designed! Whenever you connect to it, your counterfeit memories are reinforced! And if you were ever to stop... your very sense of self would collapse. Yes... just as it's doing now! Hee hee hee!"
Aya: "Gh... aaahhh!?"
Ryusei: "Aya!"
Mai: "The memories I lost... they were all fake!? I'm not Levi... I'm not even Mai? Th-then... who am I? I... I'm...!?"
Ryusei: "Mai!"

Agilla: "Hyahahahaha! How does it feel to learn the truth at last? That fool Kenzo cared for his subjects and thought he could keep it a secret, but it was all futile in the end! Hahahaha!"
Ryusei: "No way... then, my mom was also..."
Agilla: "Oh? Your mother was an ICS subject as well? That explains how you can pilot your mech... then your mother would be Number 2 - no, Number 3."
Ryusei: "...!"
Agilla: "Did I guess right? But I'm afraid Number 3 was discharged before I came to the Institute. If I'd had my chance, I would have given her new memories as well."

Ryusei: "Y-you witch... Aya, Mai... Latooni... Arado... what the hell do you think people are!?"
Agilla: "...I've already told you. Test materials, and nothing more. The memories, the trauma, the operations, all are just controlled variables to bring out the samples' power."
Ryusei: "You're gonna pay for this... you can't treat people's minds like toys!"
Agilla: "Hmph... there's no need to listen to some brat's self-righteous ramblings. Perhaps I should have a look at your own brain, in place of your mother's? Hm?"
Ryusei: "Go to hell, you hag!"

Agilla: "Well, no matter. Latun 11, Number 5, and Number 7 are all here. Kenzo may have settled for half measures, but you've lived until now... you may have some value to my research. Aurum 1, take care of them."
Ouka: "Yes, Mother. I will kill Arado Balanga and the R-1's pilot, then retrieve Lat and the samples."
Ryusei: "She've moving!? Aya, Mai, fall back!"

Ryusei: "Rgh... drat it, they're in shock! But I won't let them get to you... I'll protect you both!"
Arado: "Ensign Ryusei, let me help!"
Latooni: "I'll help too!"
Ryusei: "Y-you're both..."
Latooni: "We can't abandon Captain Aya! And Mai... she's just like us. So..."
Ryusei: "Got it. Let's do this, you two!"

I like how Ryusei is surprised that Arado and Latooni step in to help, as if it would be perfectly normal for them to sit back and let Aya and Mai be captured otherwise.

Anyway, after that heaping helping of it's time for another break. Next time!

# ? Aug 15, 2016 01:16

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Good ol' Stun Shock. Probably one of the single most broken things ever in a SRW.

# ? Aug 15, 2016 01:18

AradoBalanga: Jan 3, 2013

ImpAtom posted:

Good ol' Stun Shock. Probably one of the single most broken things ever in a SRW.

Shame that there's only one pilot who can actually get the most mileage out of it, though.

# ? Aug 15, 2016 01:37

KataraniSword: Apr 22, 2008; but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Suddenly we're in Big O and there's a bunch of tomatoes around.

# ? Aug 15, 2016 01:46

Sordas Volantyr: Jan 11, 2015; Now, everybody, walk like a Jekhar.

(God, these running animations are terrible.)

...So, uh, one of you mind explainin' what the hell just happened?

# ? Aug 15, 2016 01:52

SyntheticPolygon: Dec 20, 2013

....... Well, that was all rather sudden. Um, i'm just going to kinda assume that Agillia is messing with them for the most part. Like i can buy the "you were secretly test subjects for psychic powers" thing and all that but the whole "all your memories are a lie and you are being basically mindcontrolled against your will without even knowing it" bit is a little hard to swallow. Not really out of character for the series or genre though, but still kinda hard to believe.

# ? Aug 15, 2016 02:09

AradoBalanga: Jan 3, 2013

Sordas Volantyr posted:

...So, uh, one of you mind explainin' what the hell just happened?

Okay, short version:

--Aguilla used to work at ICS, where Aya, Mai, Yukiko Date (Ryusei's mom) and few others were being experimented on in order to understand psychic abilites. Aguilla arrived somewhere around the time Yukiko got discharged from ICS, and thus had nothing to do with her.
--Together with Kenzo Kobayashi, Aguilla created what I'm guessing were the first models of the T-Link System, with Aya and Mai being used as test subjects. They were designed to act like an addictive drug to the testers; they are conditioned to be dependent on it because it stabilizes their psychic powers into something usable and allows the test subjects to function like normal people. Basically, think the Cyber Newtypes from the Gundam franchise, except Aya did have some latent psychic powers to begin with.
--However, that early model failed when the ICS building was destroyed due to Mai's psychic powers overloading the system, causing a massive explosion. Because that's how mind powers work, obviously.
--Aguilla survived the explosion, went on to co-found/work at (not sure here, to be honest) The School with Adler Koch, and continue her line of mad science. Experimented with several classes, with presumably Aurum and Bronzo being her central focus. She seems to have either known about Latooni's class or also participated in their class' experiments.
--Aya and Mai are not related at all, nor is Kenzo their biological father. Those memories of being Kenzo Kobayashi's daughters were created presumably in order to keep the two under control. I say presumably because the game really doesn't elaborate on this when it really should. Kenzo is also going to confirm this is the truth after we complete the stage.

The really short version:
Aguilla just pulled off the equivalent of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kujo7V9m0gk, as well as reveal that Kenzo Kobayashi ain't exactly a saint himself.

# ? Aug 15, 2016 02:39

Onmi: Jul 12, 2013; If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

SyntheticPolygon posted:

....... Well, that was all rather sudden. Um, i'm just going to kinda assume that Agillia is messing with them for the most part. Like i can buy the "you were secretly test subjects for psychic powers" thing and all that but the whole "all your memories are a lie and you are being basically mindcontrolled against your will without even knowing it" bit is a little hard to swallow. Not really out of character for the series or genre though, but still kinda hard to believe.

Nope, she's being genuine. Mai and Aya aren't sisters, and they aren't even Kobayashi's daughters. They were just test subjects when Kenzo was studying telekinetic powers, except he had a change of heart during their research and decided to stop tampering with their memories, beyond the maintenance Aya needs to not, ya know, die.

I will say that I do not think this ever came up in SRW outside of the OG games? Like I don't remember Kenzo, even when he did make the few appearances he did, ever messing with memories. Then again, Mai also never died in the Alpha series. Clashing with Ryusei just woke up some memories of being Mai, but the memories of being Levi Tolar and fighting for the Aerogaters never disappeared. But typically, if they introduce poo poo in OG that's not contradictory, then you can take it as "canon"

# ? Aug 15, 2016 02:53

Oblique Angle: Feb 11, 2011; God or the devil? Why not surpass them both?!