|
Magical Zero posted:"Om Media hade varit ärliga från början"? Till skillnad från Avpixlat då eller? Sorry men det där snacket är inget annat än rasistiska konspirationsteorier. Flashbacknivå, skärp dig. Sakine Madon says Hi. And if you don't understand what I mean with this, there is virtually no point in continuing the discussion since you live in an echo chamber. Also, when it comes to media critique Flashback is way ahead of this miserable thread. Xoidanor posted:Kommer folk förvånas över att brott begås på skolgårdar och arbetsplatser härnäst? Man kan inte tvinga in individer i trånga utrymmen under långa tidsperioder och inte förvänta sig att några kommer vantrivas och ta ut sina agressioner på sin omgivning. I asylboendernas fall så pågår ju trångboddheten under flera år, dygnet runt, och med liten konkret hopp på utveckling eftersom de flesta delarna av den nuvarande integrationsprocessen (tack Thomas Billström Well, asylum centers were hardly centers of serenity prior to last year crisis. Speaking of housing, have you heard about Boverkets report last year regarding housing for asylum seekers?
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2016 20:05
|
|
) gömmer sig bakom krav på folkbokföring utanför boende. Lägg till kvacksalvare som Bert Karlsson där grundläggande necessiteter som toapapper dokumenterat saknas på boenden så får man allt vara gott trångsynt för att inte se att detta är oundvikligt.
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 08:00 |
|
|
Magical Zero posted:"Om Media hade varit ärliga från början"? Till skillnad från Avpixlat då eller? Sorry men det där snacket är inget annat än rasistiska konspirationsteorier. Flashbacknivå, skärp dig. Du har missat vad som har hänt nu i januari eller? Att Norska Journalisten visade att Nyheter Idag hade rätt och Dagens Nyheter hade ljugit, sedan att svensk media tar lobbyistrapporter som verkligheten och anser att en kommun tjänar på invandringen om de får pengar från staten. Att det skulle vara konspirationsteorier är ett skämt, däremot är det skönt att tidningarna äntligen har börjat bli lite ärliga om invandringen isstället för att utmåla det som en solskenshistoria. Speciellt med tanke på idioter som du som vill att tidningarna ska dölja sanningen.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:This channeling of "good" men was predicted a long time ago in academia, the aftermath of Köln has been unfolding in a very predictable manner. quote:The “good” man is one who keeps vigilant watch over the safety of his family and readily risks himself in the face of threats from the outside in order to protect the subordinate members of his household. The logic of masculinist protection, then, includes the image of the selfish aggressor who wishes to invade the lord’s property and sexually conquer his women. These are the bad men. Good men can only appear in their goodness if we assume that lurking outside the warm familial walls are aggressors who wish to attack them. The dominative masculinity in this way constitutes protective masculinity as its other. The world out there is heartless and uncivilized, and the movements and motives of the men in it are unpredictable and difficult to discern. The protector must therefore take all precautions against these threats, remain watchful and suspicious, and be ready to fight and sacrifice for the sake of his loved ones (Elshtain 1987, 1992). Masculine protection is needed to make a home a haven. Cardiac posted:Sakine Madon says Hi. Cardiac posted:And if you don't understand what I mean with this, there is virtually no point in continuing the discussion since you live in an echo chamber. Also, when it comes to media critique Flashback is way ahead of this miserable thread. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2016 20:18
|
|
|
deputamadre posted:One might also say that downplaying and dismissing brutal gender discrimination just because it happens in minority populations ultimately gives racists and islamophobes a lot of ammunition, and people who do that are useful idiots for literal nazis. This is exactly what has been happening, now you have people on the left handwaving away mass sexual assault because the facts are politically inconvenient. It reminds me a lot of the Cambodian genocide denial you got from the left, you get stuck in your echo chamber for too long and you begin saying really dumb things because the other side just HAS to be wrong. Magical Zero posted:
Sounds like you care more about scoring political points than about the well-being of women when you say things like this.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2016 20:18
|
|
|
Magical Zero posted:"Yeah, I think exaggerating and vilifying entire groups based on their religion is a bit worse actually. It's funny how suddenly certain people start caring about the wellbeing of women in the suburbs whenever Islam is brought up. Yet on the subject of spousal abuse in the majority population they have surprisingly little to say, despite it being much more common. I wonder why. That woman is speaking up about what she sees as a deeply troubling development, and you were literally saying that she shouldn't do so because "nazis". It's interesting how you mention exaggerating, and at the same time say stuff like "literal SA-style mobs are rampaging through cities and attacking anyone they deem "foreign looking"". How seriously did you take people who used the term "literal rape mobs" after new years eve by the way?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2016 20:25
|
|
|
TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:This is exactly what has been happening, now you have people on the left handwaving away mass sexual assault because the facts are politically inconvenient. It reminds me a lot of the Cambodian genocide denial you got from the left, you get stuck in your echo chamber for too long and you begin saying really dumb things because the other side just HAS to be wrong. TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:Sounds like you care more about scoring political points than about the well-being of women when you say things like this. deputamadre posted:That woman is speaking up about what she sees as a deeply troubling development, and you were literally saying that she shouldn't do so because "nazis".
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:handwaving away mass sexual assault uh, everyone did this until it was possible to pin it on dem dirty foreigners (our swedish boys would never do it!!!), and now suddenly they're yelling about women's rights while at the same time claiming that feminists are destroying this country
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:uh, everyone did this until it was possible to pin it on dem dirty foreigners (our swedish boys would never do it!!!), and now suddenly they're yelling about women's rights while at the same time claiming that feminists are destroying this country I think the high-point of this farce was Jimmie Åkesson claiming in the riksdag debate that this kind of public sexual harassment was a new phenomena in reference to Kungsträdgården. It's always been there, but no one cared back when it was the right men doing it. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jan 30, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
It is a new phenomenon. What made Köln special was that the scale of the event made all the assembled police unable to stop it. That kind of mass event requires advance planning and organisation, which makes it terrorism. What's the English term for taharrush again? Oh right, there isn't one because that poo poo was unheard of here until now. And what are you supposed to do with an sudden influx of hundreds of thousands fortune seekers who think free gibmedats grow on trees in Europe if not place them in asylum centers? No surprise that shitlibs are divorced from reality but you realize that there aren't half a million empty apartments waiting for them, right?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2016 21:21
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:uh, everyone did this until it was possible to pin it on dem dirty foreigners (our swedish boys would never do it!!!), and now suddenly they're yelling about women's rights while at the same time claiming that feminists are destroying this country Because it isn't the same. Men from these countries, not everyone but most of them, treat women like dogs. They will provide food and shelter, but rights? A completly alien concept. And to not talk about it "because it might make us look like racists"? Pathetic
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
Magical Zero posted:I'm not exaggerating, though? We're talking about large coordinated groups of politically motivated and masked hooligans. They're justifying their violence by claiming that the state has "failed" the people, that a foreign evil is attacking "their women", that the media and police are traitors in league with the Bolshevik- oh sorry, I mean the Muslim agenda. Yeah def no similarities with SA there buddy. Just letting you know, you may accuse everyone else of exaggeration or hyperbole but it's just the pot calling the kettle black.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2016 21:36
|
|
|
Lord Tywin posted:Du har missat vad som har hänt nu i januari eller? Att Norska Journalisten visade att Nyheter Idag hade rätt och Dagens Nyheter hade ljugit, I read that Journalisten article and it didn't seem to prove anything? There are still only two sources. A police officer who is critical of immigration and "mainstream media" and a psychologist who didn't see any criminal acts himself but "got a lot of information from the police". According to the police officer, the widespread sexual harassment could have been easily confirmed by calling police custody to check how many arrests were made. But he also says very few perpetrators were arrested, but rather removed from the area and released. Which also begs the question how one, without any registration, can know they were mostly ensamkommande from Afghanistan? He also says there were parents, social services and other organizations present. Maybe I haven't been following this closely enough, but I haven't read any testimonies from these parties or, more importantly, any victims. There was that one piece by a social worker who claimed the only thing the assailants had in common were their sex. I don't doubt sexual harassment happened or that there were a lot more perpetrators than were ultimately charged, but that doesn't sound like anything new sadly. For all we know the police officer and the psychologist are friends/ex-coworkers and the police officer wrote that internal report which DN later quoted. Perhaps DN should have checked this thing up more closely but I see no indication there was any cover up. Karpaw posted:It is a new phenomenon. What made Köln special was that the scale of the event made all the assembled police unable to stop it. That kind of mass event requires advance planning and organisation, which makes it terrorism. What's the English term for taharrush again? Oh right, there isn't one because that poo poo was unheard of here until now. I guess I should just put you on ignore but taharrush is an egyptian phenomenon, a country which few asylum seekers come from. It also came to prominence during the egyptian revolution where the harassment and rapes were carried out for largely political reasons and thus had little to do with culture. freelancemoth posted:Because it isn't the same. Men from these countries, not everyone but most of them, treat women like dogs. They will provide food and shelter, but rights? A completly alien concept. [source needed] Hey, I found a blog post with something for everyone! https://politologerna.wordpress.com/2016/01/11/installning-till-jamstalldhet-bland-invandrare/
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 01:22
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:I think the high-point of this farce was Jimmie Åkesson claiming in the riksdag debate that this kind of public sexual harassment was a new phenomena in reference to Kungsträdgården. It's always been there, but no one cared back when it was the right men doing it. Makes me wonder if he's ever been to <insert music festival here>.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 01:37
|
|
|
Postorder Trollet89 posted:Makes me wonder if he's ever been to <insert music festival here>. Of course he hasnt, look at him. Hes a loving nerd.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 02:29
|
|
|
Sexual assaults like the ones that took place in Cologne came to Europe with north african immigrants, whether you like to admit it or not. Though if Swedes have been known to that before the current immigration wave, oh please correct me. I only speak of what I've not experienced in Estonia, having lived only here my whole life.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 03:37
|
|
|
Captain Scandinaiva posted:
That blog post cites a source jonnypeh posted:Sexual assaults like the ones that took place in Cologne came to Europe with north african immigrants, whether you like to admit it or not. Well that's where you're wrong! Ethnic Swedish politician confesses that he grabbed a girl's rear end once 15 years ago! Conclusion: "Swedish males only get mad about mass sexual assault because it's foreigners doing it" Not unlike views expressed by people in this thread. http://www.aftonbladet.se/debatt/article22095680.ab
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 18:33
|
|
|
The type of essentialist reasoning that claims certain people are just different, hold different opinions and have different behavior patterns that they just can't change is basically the textbook definition of racism. Just sayin'.jonnypeh posted:Sexual assaults like the ones that took place in Cologne came to Europe with north african immigrants, whether you like to admit it or not. I mean, just look at this loving post. What exactly is the definition of "sexual assaults like the ones in Cologne" (which, by the way, certainly isn't in Scandinavia)? Is it that they were systematic and many people were involved at the same time? Because boy, do I have news for you, that poo poo happens in schools all the time, especially in smaller schools (annoyingly you can't google this now because you just get lost in a swamp of avpixlat/friatider articles, but I know I've read about what basically amounted to large scale organized sexual assaults and in some cases rape at certain smaller schools in the avfolkningsbygder up north about a decade ago - I mentioned this in an earlier post), or in weird ones like Lundsberg which basically made bullying and sexual harassment sanctioned by the school for decades - and nobody could conceivably accuse Lundsberg of being full of North African immigrants. Or are you going to start shifting goalposts now and claim it's some kind of special North African sexual assault that only happens at new years' eve or something? Also, what on earth is with all these Eastern Europeans in this thread who wants to explain to us how terrible the muslims are? It's kind of a thing in real life too, there were apparently some Polish dudes in the rally the other day and I'm pretty sure I read at least one news report that claimed one of the persons who got arrested was from Poland (this has now been redacted though - I'm not sure if it's because it was wrong or if they just decided not to point any national fingers).
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 21:00
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:The type of essentialist reasoning that claims certain people are just different, hold different opinions and have different behavior patterns that they just can't change is basically the textbook definition of racism. Just sayin'. We must have been reading different textbooks. Do you guys believe this thread is like the bus from speed where if a page were to go by with nobody being called a racist we all explode? Anybody that claims events similar to Cologne NYE are some regular occurrence in Europe are being dishonest, as far as I know the scale was unprecedented and I hope it was some weird outlier. Mata fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jan 31, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 21:24
|
|
|
Mata posted:We must have been reading different textbooks. Fredrickson, George M: Racism: a short history. Princeton, NJ, USA: Princeton University Press, 2002. The preface and appendix are particularly relevant to the discussion but the entire book is very good, read it. I also have another book recommendation for y'all: Mendel-Enk, Stephan: Med uppenbar känsla för stil. Ett reportage om manlighet. Stockholm: Bokförlaget Atlas, 2004. Thin little thing, costs like 40kr on Adlibris. Very unpleasant but highly interesting reading.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 21:33
|
|
|
deputamadre posted:That blog post cites a source I was refering to freelancemoth's claim that most men from muslim countries (I guess?) treat women like dogs. The blog does indeed have source, and you can check that source for the question where respondents answered whether rights for women were an essential characteristic of democracy on a scale from 1 to 10. The mean for Sweden, Pakistan, Egypt and Iraq was 9.49, 7.86, 7.44 and 6.60, respectively. Even taking into account different interpretations of the wording and the scale in different countries, that's indicative that the differences are real but not that vast. The blog also had this to say: quote:Invandrare var mer benägna än infödda att tycka att män skulle ha förtur till jobb och att kvinnor bör vara beredda att skära ner på lönearbete för familjens skull. Skillnaden mellan infödda och invandrare var också större ju mindre jämställda länder invandrarna kom ifrån. De mindre jämställda attityderna kunde inte förklaras av skillnader i ålder eller utbildning. As "immigration sceptics" like to harp on, Islam isn't a race and neither is any culture, so they shouldn't be treated as such. Basically: TheFluff posted:The type of essentialist reasoning that claims certain people are just different, hold different opinions and have different behavior patterns that they just can't change is basically the textbook definition of racism. Just sayin'.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 21:36
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:The type of essentialist reasoning that claims certain people are just different, hold different opinions and have different behavior patterns that they just can't change is basically the textbook definition of racism. Just sayin'.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
TheFluff posted:Fredrickson, George M: Racism: a short history. Princeton, NJ, USA: Princeton University Press, 2002. I haven't read it, but regardless, people are different, and have different values. I get this impression from a lot of people in this thread that they believe our Swedish/western values to be intrinsically superior to other value systems, and that given the chance everybody will fall in line with our "enlightened" way of thinking. We need to get some perspective; we are a nation of extremists. We got a reality check when we tried to impose our views on abortion on the EU only to find we were in the minority. Our views on family life (and gender roles) are just as radical and maybe the same thing is gonna happen there ...
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 21:58
|
|
|
Captain Scandinaiva posted:I was refering to freelancemoth's claim that most men from muslim countries (I guess?) treat women like dogs. The blog does indeed have source, and you can check that source for the question where respondents answered whether rights for women were an essential characteristic of democracy on a scale from 1 to 10. The mean for Sweden, Pakistan, Egypt and Iraq was 9.49, 7.86, 7.44 and 6.60, respectively. Even taking into account different interpretations of the wording and the scale in different countries, that's indicative that the differences are real but not that vast. Islam isn't the cause of gender inequality, see for example India or Japan, but it is often used to justify draconian measures to keep women "in their place". This is clearly seen in Afghanistan and to a lesser degree in Maghreb. So men from these countries, not all of them mind you, will undoubtedly treat women like second class citizens. This is one of the reasons behind these sexual assaults. To downplay, or outright deny this, and treat any sort criticism as "racism" is pathetic.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 22:22
|
|
|
Mata posted:We must have been reading different textbooks. Not even that, but it's like SJWs try to use two wrongs make a right doctrine, by saying "hey similar crimes have happened here before too! so you cannot complain if they are increasing in scale and frequency!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 22:23
|
|
|
reavor posted:Not even that, but it's like SJWs try to use two wrongs make a right doctrine, by saying "hey similar crimes have happened here before too! so you cannot complain if they are increasing in scale and frequency!" Word. I get that it's important to highlight sexual assaults and we know it's terrible and that it happens everywhere, but trying to minimize the cologne events because it's politically uncomfortable is kind of tactless. It's like saying apartheid SA or Jim Crow was no big deal because racism exists in Europe too
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2016 22:30
|
|
|
Captain Scandinaiva posted:I was refering to freelancemoth's claim that most men from muslim countries (I guess?) treat women like dogs. The blog does indeed have source, and you can check that source for the question where respondents answered whether rights for women were an essential characteristic of democracy on a scale from 1 to 10. The mean for Sweden, Pakistan, Egypt and Iraq was 9.49, 7.86, 7.44 and 6.60, respectively. Even taking into account different interpretations of the wording and the scale in different countries, that's indicative that the differences are real but not that vast. Regarding "freelancemoth's claim", this passage of the blog is relevant IMO: quote:Personer som invandrar till Sverige kommer nästan alltid från mindre jämställda länder, eftersom Sverige enligt gängse mått är ett av de mest jämställda länderna i världen. I World Economic Forums Gender Gap Index 2015 räknades Sverige som det fjärde mest jämställda landet. Syrien, varifrån flest personer sökte asyl under 2015, kom på plats 143 av 145. So you can of course play obtuse and pretend that freelancemoth literally thinks that all muslims/MENA men/whatever literally regard women as literal dogs and ask for his "sources" of studies where MENA men rank women vs dogs or whatever. Or you can accept that the statistics in that blog post corroborate his point - the average MENA native is a bigger misogynist than the average swede. quote:Forskarnas slutsats var att anpassningsprocessen tog en generation, mer eller mindre. I didn't have the time to thoroughly read the study you quote (just skimmed through it), but a couple of things caught my eye: That study takes into account all kinds of immigrants and their differing attitudes to gender equalities, including the difference equivalent of Italians in France and Slovakians in the UK. The 90th percentile in the study (D9) represents a difference of .450 (in a range of 0 to 1). The attitude ratio between Sweden and Morocco is 0.590, well within this range. according to the Gender Inequality Index, Morocco (#117) is more gender equal than Syria (#119), Iraq (#123) and Afghanistan (#152). Assuming that gender equality attitude mirrors actual gender equality, gender equality attitude in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria is not better than it is in Morocco, at least not to a point where it would drastically reduce the attitude ratio to <.450 These are the results for the second generation in the D9 group: quote:The maximum differential is an odds ratio of 1.5 for women with parents from D9 countries for responses on ‘women should cut back item’. Men with parents from D9 countries have an odds ratio of 1.4 relative to natives for both items. So, the gender equality attitude of the 2nd generation of the D9 group is not similar to the gender equality attitude of the host population. That blog post's claim is misleading. Also, keep in mind that: 1) The difference in gender equality attitude of the first generation remains high throughout their life, especially for the men. So you get a large immigrant population with really backwards gender equality views, even if the naturalized 2nd generation's views are more often akin to the views of the majority population. 2) Societal values are not static, and with a big influx of people with more traditional gender views, society as a whole will be influenced by their views, not just the other way around. Sweden's current gender views are not a "default value" that will be returned to once you integrate a population of immigrants. That study was an interesting read, thanks for sharing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2016 00:41
|
|
|
reavor posted:SJWs Mata posted:people are different jonnypeh posted:Sexual assaults ... came to Europe with north african immigrants freelancemoth posted:Men from these countries, not everyone but most of them, treat women like dogs. TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:the left handwaving away mass sexual assault Cardiac posted:Flashback is way ahead of this miserable thread. Alright. That's enough of this. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2016 01:05
|
|
|
in a better world, we could use cologne and sthlm as illustrations of rape culture which we could then extrapolate to society in general and make an educational point of it, since everyone agrees that these things are massively distrubing and cognisant of roughly why that is unhappily, the immediate reaction is that this problem is somehow limited to brown people of course
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2016 01:32
|
|
|
Thread making GBS threads, like in this thread, came to D&D from GBS. Posters from that part of the forums, not everyone, but most of them, are racists assholes. You can hand-waive the mass insufferable posting of the GBS posters away, but they are here and they are different.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2016 01:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 08:00 |
|
|
 start your own drat thread if you want somewhere to rant about muslims in europe
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2016 01:52
|
|