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I'm headed there this weekend to film, photograph and interview. If folks are around or would give recommendations, feel free to PM me.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:01
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Obdicut posted:Arrest the officer who shot Brown and release his name. If they were going to do this, they would have done so by now. For whatever reason, the PD is going to fight for him. I think this could be a situation the police have wanted for a while. Pre-emptively closing off airspace would be a nice idea if you plan on bringing down a massive hammer on a huge number of protestors at once.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:25
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Obdicut posted:Yes, but thanks to this shooting it's quite likely that chopper pilots without local experience might be arriving and flying around. That the airport isn't affected is my point: This is consistent with not wanting news helicopters to get in the way of the airport traffic. It isn't about attacking citizen journalism but about getting mainstream media journalists out. While we live in an age where anyone could vine and get their footage out, someone's vine video languishing on an account with 50 followers isn't going to get the same presence as Channel 7's news copter.
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Aug 12, 2014 22:40
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unwantedplatypus posted:Is it just me or are these "black kid dies due to cop , black community pissed" riots getting more severe. If not on the protestor side then on the police response side? I feel like these shootings are too close together to simply pass from public conscience. I saw a meme on Twitter about how police have killed an unarmed black person every 28 hours so far this year. If the protestor side isn't getting worse, the response side sure is because it's looking more and more like the police really want an all-out war.
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Aug 13, 2014 00:48
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Just an FYI but anyone who claims Al Sharpton shouldn't be involved because of whatever reason is just justifying racism. Al Sharpton is not only an experienced community organizer but he uses his celebrity effectively to publicize issues that need and should continue to get national attention. There are only two reasons to be mad that Al Sharpton is looking at this situation: One is if you're an outright racist and just hate Al Sharpton and two is if you're a troll who is just "concerned" that white reactions to Al Sharpton will derail the issue at hand.
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Aug 13, 2014 15:48
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Stultus Maximus posted:No, I am not saying that the problem is "whacko police force." The problem is that the effects of the recession on working- and middle-class black communities of north St Louis county have been ignored by the mostly white county government and rising crime is being met with racist all-white police forces instead of effective community-oriented policing which further exacerbates the economic problems. While these problems are mirrored in many communities throughout America, they have to be solved at the local level. As I said before, national solidarity can provide support but local solutions have to come from local voices. Sharpton's voice is "authentic" as a black man talking about civil rights but not as a Ferguson resident who is living in a specific local racial, economic, and political dynamic. Effective change comes from community grass roots. If 'local voices' were at all interested in doing good for Ferguson, we wouldn't have a 95% white police force terrorizing a 66% black town. In the overall scope of the picture, the worse black people do in one neighborhood, the better white people do in another neighborhood, because the unemployment, poverty and crime linked to it all get localized into one area and keeps other areas nicer. Local voices aren't going to change that because it's a system that already works well for the majority. Saying that we shouldn't have outside national pressure on a system that's already shown it doesn't give a poo poo about the people of Ferguson is just asking for status quo. greatn posted:You know what you were implying with your insinuation that D&D cheers on the death of Jews. Please provide residence that still Sharpton ever called for the murder of one or indirectly caused such. Ignore list & move on the troll hasn't had one single non-disingenuous post this entire thread.
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Aug 13, 2014 16:28
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anonumos posted:Wait, what? Self-government won't work because the town itself is somehow inherently irredeemable? Like, "Concentrating a minority creates a terrible neighborhood [because they're black and blacks are terrible] so why should they rule themselves?" That's what I got from your post. Self-government is great. Local governments are great. But what I'm saying is that Ferguson is in the state it is *because* the local governments have shat on it to allow better conditions in other parts of St Louis. So saying "We should only have local people here trying to make this an issue" isn't going to work because those same locals have already failed to make their case time and time again. In other words, if the local folks of Ferguson couldn't make their case before, what makes you think that the other local governments of St Louis will suddenly start caring now?
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Aug 13, 2014 17:45
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Fried Chicken posted:The best supporting evidence for the assertion "Al Sharpton is too polarizing, his presence will detract from the issue" is the fact that we've spent the past 3 pages going back and forth about Al Sharpton and had 1 post about the recent developments in Ferguson. Shut up about Al Sharpton. And if you replace Al Sharpton with literally anybody else you will only get the same result over and over again. It isn't Al Sharpton, it's the role of putting the spotlight on racial issues. Anyone who takes on that role will get the same attention until they're considered too "polarizing" to show up and shine the spotlight on issues.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:49
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The problem you have is that the police are given a monopoly on the use of violence in exchange for protecting and serving the community. If they are not protecting or serving the community, and they're protecting someone who's murdering members of that community, then they cannot reasonably be given a continued monopoly on force. Had they moved quickly on this from the beginning I think they could have defused a lot of this tension, but now the reason they're protecting the officer is getting pushed to the forefront, and it feels like this confrontation is something they *want*. They've got armored vehicles, assault rifles, tear gas, the police are *ready* for riots and they're prepared for them, the question is are they interested in provoking one to put all their toys to use?
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Aug 13, 2014 18:14
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Why riot now? Because we had the civil rights movement 50 years ago and nothing's loving changed.
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Aug 13, 2014 23:13
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If nothing else, it sounds like pulling out the Ferguson Police should probably help defuse a lot of the tension. The protestors sound more like they want to get their story out and start a dialogue, and maybe swapping out the police with officers who don't have such a direct relationship with them will help things calm down quite a bit.
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Aug 14, 2014 18:50
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Sunset posted:I really wish one of the higher ups in the feds would force the entire Ferguson/county pd to wear a very embarrassing outfit and have to stand somewhere all in a line trying to strike the ball busting poses that they were showing for the past few days. I'm absolutely betting the farm you will be right that Ferguson will be looking a lot less war zone tonight. Tonight will definitely be the make-or-break night for the entire thing. The original police that were escalating are being pulled out which means that if the protestors are serious about a dialogue then they'll make it clear tonight. I think that will be the case. I'm going to arrive there tomorrow night so hopefully I will be able to access Ferguson immediately and the road blocks are gone, otherwise I might have to set up on Saturday.
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Aug 14, 2014 21:32
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Stanos posted:Beaten, but his name was bounced around as a Democratic VP nominee from what I've read. This is why nothing will change. People are out there getting shots and footage and putting it online. People just don't care. So long as it just happens to black people then it really isn't a problem
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Aug 14, 2014 21:52
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Somberbrero posted:This is anecdotal, but the bullshit narrative of protester-driven violence has a lot of traction with people in St. Louis. I guess that's easier for people to accept. protestor-driven violence has a lot of traction with all people. Everybody out there is basically saying, "Well I understand that this incident is bad but violence isn't ok." It's an easy thing to say because 1) "don't hurt people" is an easy, albeit lazy statement to get behind, and 2) it's easy to just group violent looters in with peaceful protestors because that's the narrative people are presented with when it's already happened and you don't need to understand anything else about the situation. In reality, people who care know that looters are a tiny fraction of peaceful protestors and often are outside agitators there to take advantage of an opportunity, but if you're just hearing about protests for the first time and the media just lumps them in, then it's easy to buy that it's the protestors who are violent. Plus I don't think many people in this country have ever protested, at least in any sort of serious situation where they could face violent repercussions from authority.
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Aug 14, 2014 22:14
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Cease to Hope posted:There are pictures. I dunno how to feel about it, but it's not helmets and flak jackets. Dress shirts and police caps and reflective vests. The most important thing here is that the police have made it clear that they are interested in de-escalating the situation. Whether they're capable of it is yet to be seen, but this is about as close to a peace offering as you're gonna get. We'll see how it plays out when night falls.
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Aug 14, 2014 22:29
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Stultus Maximus posted:From the Post-Dispatch: It's amazing how hard the Post-Dispatch is shilling for the police. No wonder their reporter had to wear body armor. Accusing the protestors of wanting vigilante violence against the officer for asking for his name is pretty lovely. I imagine they don't have much distribution in that area.
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Aug 15, 2014 00:25
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AngrySpork posted:The counties response just reinforced my concept that most police officers want to play military / shooty man "PEW PEW LOOK AT ME I'M ARMY!" Actual veterans responding to photos of the police decked out in armor has been amazing. One of them was pointing out the armored officer sitting on top of the MRAP with the sniper rifle and the veteran says, "You don't sit people on top of an armored vehicle if you think you could get shot at." The police there knew the protestors weren't going to fight back and still set up to make war with them.
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Aug 15, 2014 00:27
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evilweasel posted:It's also really heartening that there seems to be a surprisingly broad consensus for rolling back police militarization as a result of this: I think there's a good chance that the 1033 program get significantly pulled back as a result of this. The amazing difference in responses that militarized tactics vs. good tactics got is basically impossible to deny. The anti-militarization wave will probably disappear pretty quickly once all the tension dies off, but the difference between showing up kitted out with tactical gear and showing up with your regular gear and talking to the people involved is definitely night and day. People were angry because they were hurt and just acknowledging that and acknowledging them went so far. Really, more than anti-militarization, the police need to be trained in empathy and de-escalation. This was a situation that could have been handled far easier on Saturday or Sunday night than waiting this long.
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Aug 15, 2014 01:06
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Yeah the police are just encouraging people to play internet detective with lovely webcam footage and a blurry photograph. If they in fact believed he committed a crime they would have grabbed Dorian as a suspected accomplice if nothing else. The fact they didn't shows this is more of an after-thought, probably why they waited so long to put it together.
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Aug 15, 2014 16:27
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Samurai Sanders posted:I'm worried it might work, human brains are stupid that way. We just need to keep reminding ourselves that this is not a cop show and robbery suspects don't deserve to be shot and killed any more than anyone else. Here's the thing - most people didn't care that a black kid got shot. That was the case in the beginning, that was the case now. People didn't even really care that tanks, teargas and rubber bullets were being unloaded on unarmed protestors and reporters. The photos and video of it got the government worried enough about a backlash that they pulled the St Louis County Police, but that wasn't a backlash that was actually happening. Most people never cared about Mike Brown and they still don't. The police are just redirecting back to the original narrative of "black kid gets shot" and it isn't that this makes him look bad, it's that nobody cared before and racists are feeling vindicated. But this would always be the outcome once the militarized response was over.
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Aug 15, 2014 17:52
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uncurable mlady posted:like, no wonder the american left gets clowned by society loving constantly, like you do you realize there are still people repeating the whole "death panels" schtick? you're not going to have this sudden wave of "oh, hm, well i see that your well-crafted and reasoned arguments about why it's unacceptable for the police to shoot an unarmed civilian who posed no danger to the officer or society have changed my life-long views on the inferiority of people who do not share my racial and ethnic background, now where do I sign up for the drum circle?" you should go check out the political cartoons thread where rightwing cartoonists literally put their opinions in the mouths of babies because their perspectives are so simple that even a baby can get it. Yes, by and large most people don't care for nuance or complexity, but that's a much bigger issue than what leftists can take on when they're still trying to keep black youth from getting slaughtered
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Aug 15, 2014 18:17
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Berke Negri posted:Apparently Ferguson PD decided to pull this stunt without informing the police who had to be brought in to police the crowds for them: I wouldn't be surprised if St Louis County police are trying to throw Highway patrol under the bus, or if they're hoping to get the mood back to confrontational so that they can get this fight going. Either way, they're not going out without a fight.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:46
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Trabisnikof posted:Exactly. This is all being set up so that 12 white guys can be fed exactly the right information so that the cop is acquitted. The county DA can then say " He will be tried by the feds, not locally. The FBI is involved as is Holder and the justice department.
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Aug 15, 2014 19:34
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I tried, but the American justice system and the jury of his peers has spoken".
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It's raining now so I'm gonna head out around 9 and start covering what I can. I landed too late last night to get into Ferguson directly (landed at midnight, set up at an airport hotel 2 miles away) but once the rain does down I'll be out there for the day
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Aug 16, 2014 13:20
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I managed to get out around 10, but had to walk a few miles to get past the roadblocks where I could get picked up. Been filming for 12 hours today, just couldn't push it to the end. Will be back tomorrow to interview one of the witnesses
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Aug 17, 2014 06:07
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Neo Duckberg posted:Sorry I couldn't take you back! All good man you get home safe. I was a wreck after the march, tons of interviews, and the first half of the QuickTrip shenanigans. 12 hours of filming straight is beyond my upper limit
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Aug 17, 2014 06:33
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I have mixed feelings about the curfew. I was at the conference when the governor announced it and it felt like if protestors peacefully dispersed it would be a huge PR coup. On the other hand many of the protestors I interviewed who weren't planning on following it compared it to "black codes" of the 1900s that installed curfews on blacks just to limit their mobility. Also, why can't protestors be on the street while the killer cop goes free? Those are both excellent points. In the end I just want it to end peacefully. I'll be back tomorrow for sure.
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Aug 17, 2014 06:45
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ReindeerF posted:I was following this lightly and have a question. Why is this all going down now? Is it because of the curfew imposed by the Governor? Well the curfew is agitating the protestors in the sense that they face jail time if they're out between 12-5, but the cop who killed brown is free and can do whatever he likes, whenever. It's suppressing the freedoms of protestors without giving them anything in return. To be fair, they'd be out there anyways, regardless. Some are protesting, some are partying, some are looting. But if you tell me I can't go outside in my yard at 1am you can bet that I'll be wanting to go on my yard at 1am.
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Aug 17, 2014 06:52
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The curfew is problematic in the sense that it tries to suppress the protests without answering the protestor's main question, which is, why isn't Darren Wilson in jail? I was at the press conference today when Nixon announced it and the only thing the protestors asked about was why Wilson was still free. That's pretty much their main beef right now
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Aug 17, 2014 06:55
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Anyone in America should know this. If you tell an American that they aren't allowed to do something, they're going to want to do it. Yeah but try explaining that to Americans. Every summer we make a blockbuster movie about plucky little America fighting off a horde of invading aliens with better weapons, yet we refuse to consider that maybe other countries don't enjoy being occupied
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Aug 17, 2014 07:00
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Bullfrog posted:Vice reporter just said that someone just yelled, "They got guns, we got guns," I saw a group of guys chanting "shoot us and we'll shoot you back" when I was leaving but that doesn't mean they *actually* have guns or would use them
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Aug 17, 2014 07:01
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ReindeerF posted:Yeah, just to be clear, I was asking why is the crackdown that's going down right now going down right now, not why are there protesters. The curfew was passed earlier today and capt Johnson essentially said if the crowd polices itself, no looting, streets clear, disperse at midnight, then the police will back off. Well the crowd policed itself and kept streets mostly clear but not all the different groups agreed to leave. New black panthers and Nation of Islam urged protestors to disperse, most did, but some did not.
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Aug 17, 2014 07:04
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Neo Duckberg posted:I'm out of here the front is too far away and it's raining like a bitch Safe travels. I hopefully have an interview with that witness I told you about tomorrow at the church the march finished at, if she's not one of the ones getting arrested
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Aug 17, 2014 07:30
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Neo Duckberg posted:They told me if I went across the yellow tape I'd be arrested. gently caress Are they basically saying you have to wait until 5?
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Aug 17, 2014 07:32
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The guys in purple call themselves Black Israelites and while I don't know much about their order, they've been set up a and chanting outside the memorial for mike brown for days now. When I heard them, it was all disgustingly homophobic, so I left. As for Darren Wilson, the KKK has out together a giant reward for him, they're just waiting for him to come and get it. Also, re: KKK, I spoke to a witness yesterday who said that last Sunday the KKK was in town putting up burning crosses before the QuickTrip burned down. Her suggestion was that the initial rioting was in response to the burning crosses, which I hadn't heard about before.
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Aug 17, 2014 14:21
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Yeah I get their emphasis on making sure black families have a mother and a father but they were literally yelling that being raised by only a mother and watching basketball wives would make little boys start carrying purses. As if mike brown was shot for carrying a purse. Smh. Also I forgot but for anyone claiming that Darren Wilson had a spotless history, there was a woman who claimed he prevented her from washing out her eyes with milk after being maced under the threat of arresting her and when she complained he told her to shut the gently caress up. He forced her to sit on the curb with mace in her eyes. The poo poo I found out interviewing people and talking to them yesterday made me want to crawl in a hole and stay there forever
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Aug 17, 2014 14:52
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Also I just want to note: when I talk to journos and photogs about ferguson, they all cite police response as reason for being there. When I talk to protestors, they all say mike brown is the reason they're there. There's a huge disconnect between what the people of ferguson want and what the world is looking at. Yesterday during the press conference when Nixon announced the curfew, all the questions were: why hasn't Darren Eilson been arrested? Only one question about curfew and that was about how Johnson was going to peacefully implement it. This whole thing could likely blow over the instant Wilson is arrested, but Nixon stressed that's not in his power. I assume this is a technicality over arresting an agent of the state for overstepping his bounds since police have a greater range of justification for homicide, but the protestors don't really seem fazed by tanks, MRAPs, tear gas, etc. they want Wilson in jail and they want to hear charges.
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Aug 17, 2014 15:07
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I'm at greater grace church now,big crowd, lots of positive energy. Saw Jesse Jackson, I believe al sharpton and MLK III are due up. Juxtapose vs how media portrays protesters. Edit: Capt Johnson is here too. The man is trying, I give him that. bassguitarhero fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Aug 17, 2014 |
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Aug 17, 2014 21:03
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HUGE display of support for Capt Johnson as he apologized to mike brown's family and talked about his own son. Multiple standing ovations. That's some serious community support
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Aug 17, 2014 21:19
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Capt Johnson finished by talking about his son: "he wears his hats backwards, pants too low, tattoos in his arms but he's MY BOY" crowd goes wild. If anyone can get ferguson through this I think it's him
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Aug 17, 2014 21:27
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