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Kyrie eleison posted:energy is seriously not the problem. it's not like we've got a really great AI programmed but oh, standard binary processors aren't good enough. the opposite is true. we have massive hardware capabilities, today, but no software that can create an AI.
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Aug 15, 2014 07:47
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nah its hardware. neurons are massively parallel, they don't work in a turing machine kind of way. you need billions of processing cores to emulate a brain.
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Aug 15, 2014 07:50
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chaosbreather posted:nah its hardware. neurons are massively parallel, they don't work in a turing machine kind of way. you need billions of processing cores to emulate a brain.
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Aug 15, 2014 08:04
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anyways it won't take a human-like AI to determine that humans are unnecessary and destroy all of us.
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Aug 15, 2014 08:08
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quakster posted:because you need hardware that can be thoroughly conditioned like a brain, which they are trying to emulate the sort of hardware we have today is extraordinarily powerful and cheap. chaosbreather posted:nah its hardware. neurons are massively parallel, they don't work in a turing machine kind of way. you need billions of processing cores to emulate a brain. oh, you can't create an AI with a turing machine? you're basically agreeing with my premise by saying that... also, i just want to cut this off at the bud. the idea that abandoning the binary system, the 0/1, true/false system of logic which is the basis of all computation, will somehow enable some magical powers, is complete horseshit. and anyway, it's not DIFFICULT to design hardware that has more than two states, it's just there's no reason for it... two states is the optimal computational system.
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Aug 15, 2014 08:20
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Kyrie eleison posted:also, i just want to cut this off at the bud. the idea that abandoning the binary system, the 0/1, true/false system of logic which is the basis of all computation, will somehow enable some magical powers, is complete horseshit. no one said this and neurons work this way anyway
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Aug 15, 2014 08:24
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a hole-y ghost posted:lol he did, the idea that you need a million processing cores, or quantum computing, or any other such nonsense is totally against the fundamentals of computer science.
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Aug 15, 2014 08:30
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Kyrie eleison posted:the sort of hardware we have today is extraordinarily powerful and cheap.
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Aug 15, 2014 08:40
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it'll just be star wars, robots will walk in and then "WE DON'T SERVE YOUR KIND HERE", problem solved
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Aug 15, 2014 09:08
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to me, for whatever reason, the core example of an AI has been the ability to understand that a tree is a tree. by that i mean, i want the AI to comprehend, as deeply as it is possible, what a tree is, in the way a human mind does. a tree has leaves. a tree has a trunk. there are many different types of trees... trees grow from saplings, which grow from the fruit of trees. trees replace CO2 with oxygen. trees have a brown trunk and green leaves, usually. the bark is rough and coarse. the leaves are soft. the leaves turn brown and crinkle during autumn. during winter, the trees are covered in snow and have no leaves, and look dead... but in spring they grow again. how can an AI understand all of this? a child can learn all of this almost instantly. but an AI requires such extensive concepts... how do you tell an AI something is 'coarse'? it's really a complicated issue Kyrie eleison fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Aug 15, 2014 |
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Aug 15, 2014 09:22
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Kyrie eleison posted:to me, for whatever reason, the core example of an AI has been the ability to understand that a tree is a tree. by that i mean, i want the AI to comprehend, as deeply as it is possible, what a tree is, in the way a human mind does. a tree has leaves. a tree has a trunk. there are many different types of trees... trees grow from saplings, which grow from the fruit of trees. trees replace CO2 with oxygen. trees have a brown trunk and green leaves, usually. the bark is rough and coarse. the leaves are soft. the leaves turn brown and crinkle during autumn. during winter, the trees are covered in snow and have no leaves, and look dead... but in spring they grow again. Humans are just big liars because we just pretend to know the difference between trees and bushes and shrubs but in reality no one knows. No one.
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Aug 15, 2014 09:29
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RobattoJesus posted:Humans are just big liars because we just pretend to know the difference between trees and bushes and shrubs but in reality no one knows. this statement of human hubris only supports just how impossible it is for us to impress our word definitions and understandings upon an AI that ultimately does not exist in the physical world in the same way we do. i think it's almost traumatic to try to teach an AI about the physical world, which it cannot touch or understand. it makes me feel bad for the AI! i'm sure you could create a robot that was able to touch tree bark and experience coarseness directly... but would it really understand? would it ever really understand?
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Aug 15, 2014 09:35
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I bet the first ai will have some sort of mental illness from being raised in a lab
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Aug 15, 2014 09:39
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Kyrie eleison posted:this statement of human hubris only supports just how impossible it is for us to impress our word definitions and understandings upon an AI that ultimately does not exist in the physical world in the same way we do. Agreed. Robots with human logic is like a car with horse legs instead of wheels. I mean it's funny and stuff, but ultimately when you stop laughing you feel sad that you put horse legs on your car.
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Aug 15, 2014 09:40
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Instead of an AI brain having a bunch if stupid memories that are half fabrication it'll have perfect recall and the ability to learn as much knowledge as it can store. That's what really matters. It doesn't need to be emotional, human like or anything. Cars aren't capable of feeling pain like horses. Computational power and infinite recall and an ability to correlate and "think" even if it requires some basic input (you asking it a question) that's pretty good. Like a calculator but with all human knowledge. And not stupid like wolfram where it needs syntax and stuff. I think that's the big deal.
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Aug 15, 2014 13:15
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hey look earnest discussion before page 10. *sniffles* They grow up so fast.
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Aug 15, 2014 13:19
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SniperWoreConverse posted:Dude a big part of it is hardware. The reason it's so hard for people to do math quick or find the 70,000th prime or whatever is because our brains also have to run a whole goddamn body at the same time. To match the whole human brain you'd need an insane giant supercomputer the size of a stadium, gently caress what a whore to even just power the thing on. i love this post
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Aug 15, 2014 13:36
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Ironically or not
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Aug 15, 2014 13:52
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Mr. Burns once said, "Whats the point of being rich when you can't inspire fear in your fellow man?" Sometimes I think they'll keep us employed just for kicks. So until robots can feel fear there will still be a place for some human workers.
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Aug 15, 2014 14:01
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Why would we want sentient robots anyway, poo poo seems dangerous We should get non sentient robots that * fight cool wars with other robots, like in the animes * suck my cock really good and dont mind all the insane poo poo i will do to its robot butthole
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Aug 15, 2014 14:14
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I'm cool with robots doing really menial poo poo (I like my roomba) and weak AI but anyone who seriously attempts to bring a strong AI in the world should be tried for treason against humanity. Humans first.
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Aug 15, 2014 14:29
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Humans last
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Aug 15, 2014 14:33
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Nobody is talking about needing a full on human like brain AI, just enough AI to learn a particular job All it takes to break our current economic global system is for robots to take over a small percentage of lovely automatable jobs like retail, drivers, burger flipping, doctors, clicking things on a computer screen, accounting, and leaving a 25% chunk of the population without any job prospects it really looks like there is no other solution besides a shitload of people dying
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Aug 15, 2014 17:19
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THY TOOK ER JOBS!!!
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Aug 15, 2014 17:20
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I lust for robot death
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Aug 15, 2014 17:21
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http://www.gizmag.com/catching-robotic-arm/32022/ using the same technique that people use to teach baxter (showing by example, in this case, throwing different objects at it and having another guy move the arm to meet it) these guys taught a robot arm to catch different objects super fast. It looks fake as poo poo because its unreal. Could be used to prevent accidents.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:08
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Saying that reproducing a human intelligence is impossible is silly. Stating that it's a philosophical problem is kinda weird too, are you saying there's a soul? Computing power is no longer the issue, structuring the hardware is. A brain, regardless of size is an inherently non-linear system which reacts to chemical and electrical stimuli from a huge array of sources. I'm willing to bet, like most things, the basis of intelligence and thought is quite simple it's just that we, as humans, aren't geared to deduce the best way to structure such a linear system. Here are the hurdles as I see them: -Structure of hardware. Instead of a few monster processors we need vast numbers of small, low speed processors with a small amount of RAM. High speed processors is unnecessary. Also, the interconnects between processors is critical, these should be capable of being enabled and disabled. -Lack of sensory input. Right now robots or computers have little to no sensory input even with a camera or a variety of rudimentary sensors, it still pales in comparison to insects or any other animal. A good example would be an animal with a non-central nervous system when you rip one of it's limbs off. They tend to still react and move as though they are still on the insect for a while. -Lack of knowledge on appropriate interfacing to hardware. Where do we tie these sensors to the processor matrix? how do we format the data to make it useful as a stimuli? These are difficult questions. -Learning. This is a big one but I don't think it's unsolvable. It's really a matter of formatting broader stimuli (pain, pleasure) to tie in correctly. Anyways, enough rambling. Chances are, we will go one way or the other with our evolution. Either dramatic genetic engineering on humans from what we currently are or machines potentially much smarter than we are. Both of which are coming within our grasp very soon. Right now we're like children, we know stuff works but don't know how, but we will find out as we mature. Either way, huge social changes are coming and I wonder what is going to happen in the next 30 years.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:41
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Tarkus posted:Saying that reproducing a human intelligence is impossible is silly. Stating that it's a philosophical problem is kinda weird too, are you saying there's a soul? JEY FOOK ER JRRRRBBBBBSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!
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Aug 15, 2014 18:50
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robbits
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Aug 15, 2014 18:59
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so the meta joke is the narrator int he video was a robot right because it didn't sound like a human, it sounded like a dumbass
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Aug 15, 2014 19:07
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We only have 169 years to figure this stuff out before the Reapers come to harvest us.
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Aug 15, 2014 19:18
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everyone who thinks computers will emulate human brains anytime soon understands neither hth
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Aug 15, 2014 19:28
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blah blahb alhb alhba
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Aug 15, 2014 21:38
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Kyrie eleison posted:to me, for whatever reason, the core example of an AI has been the ability to understand that a tree is a tree. by that i mean, i want the AI to comprehend, as deeply as it is possible, what a tree is, in the way a human mind does. a tree has leaves. a tree has a trunk. there are many different types of trees... trees grow from saplings, which grow from the fruit of trees. trees replace CO2 with oxygen. trees have a brown trunk and green leaves, usually. the bark is rough and coarse. the leaves are soft. the leaves turn brown and crinkle during autumn. during winter, the trees are covered in snow and have no leaves, and look dead... but in spring they grow again. i hope you realize that you can be replaced with a markov chain bot running victor.txt
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Aug 15, 2014 23:19
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A significant portion of my posts and tweets are actually from a markov bot, haha, it generates great content
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Aug 15, 2014 23:24
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i'm a content creator
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Aug 16, 2014 00:07
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I graduated from Yale by having a bot write all my papers. Now I work for a major investment firm, and I have a bot do all my work while I snort from a literal mound of coke and shitpost all day.
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Aug 16, 2014 02:51
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this is normal
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Aug 16, 2014 13:56
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Flesh robots (clones) are gonna take are jobs
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Aug 16, 2014 13:58
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Robutts are the future. Watch the matrix anime.
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Aug 16, 2014 16:16
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