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Guys, if that organisation that our mom's a part of is any good, which it seems to be, since they've been successfully tangling with the Big =][=, then she will know only exactly what they want us to believe and nothing more, so putting her brain in a box is a waste of time. (Why would you give your agent any more info than what they need to know, they are much more convincing if they believe what they are saying) So, since I doubt that there is much more to be gained from executing her, we should at least Hear her out, we can still execute her if we don't find her convincing. (And that proof better be more than some xeno claiming to know of a smurf plot) We should however make any necessary arrangement to restrict mom's and Caroline's range of movement and security clearance for the time being, better be safe than sorry.
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Jul 3, 2015 06:40
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I love how after DeVries, our response to any suspicious person is either to put their brain in a box or to  No half measures.
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Jul 3, 2015 06:51
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Kegslayer posted:No half measures. And look where that got Mike. And Walt!
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Jul 3, 2015 07:00
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sheep-dodger posted:Guys, if that organisation that our mom's a part of is any good, which it seems to be, since they've been successfully tangling with the Big =][=, then she will know only exactly what they want us to believe and nothing more, so putting her brain in a box is a waste of time. (Why would you give your agent any more info than what they need to know, they are much more convincing if they believe what they are saying) Not executing her is a liability. She is saying absurdly heretical stuff and has admitted to opposing the inquisition. We are in the presence of puritan inquisitors, a living saint commissar, and Limosa, who is a xenophile, but not a fan of chaos. We don't have much choice and failing to do the obvious undermines us. Furthermore, she is a skilled liar and obviously not telling us everything. We drag this whole process out by playing her games of subtlety and shadows instead of getting all the answers we need right away. If she is a heretic, she may be capable of sabotaging us even when restricted. She's a high ranking agent if she's dancing with the inquisition and winning as well as being known sector wide for her talents. If she doesn't know everything, she'll give us a bunch of answers and leads on where to get the rest. Worst case, we find out she was right and we get her a new body.
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Jul 3, 2015 07:27
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If nothing else she should know more about the darkness than we've known. That alone is worth keeping her alive for the time being.
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Jul 3, 2015 07:42
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I hate Tzeentch. Listen first, decide later.
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Jul 3, 2015 08:37
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Shoot first, listen later. Do a DNA test to see if this lady really is your mother.
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Jul 3, 2015 08:42
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Kill and brain box her. Matricide fixes everything!
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Jul 3, 2015 08:49
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Put her in the Attic edit: I don't suppose by any chance this is the "you can stop her here" thing, is it? Rahul fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 09:10
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The evidence to support her theories would have to be enormous, and there is simply no way that any single person could prove it. It is more likely that she is some chaos pawn, and she might even be leading us into a trap. But it would probably be bad for morale to kill her right now. So i say we cautiously hear what she has to say.
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Jul 3, 2015 10:01
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Rahul posted:edit: I don't suppose by any chance this is the "you can stop her here" thing, is it? Well, Eddie DID say they wanted us to "complete an investigation," not "shoot the first woman our paranoia fingers." I feel like we should look deeper into things before bringing out the bolters. sniper4625 posted:The burden of proof that the Ultramarines, famed and documented champions of Mankind for 10,000 years, have somehow turned against the Imperium is so goddamned high that it's almost unthinkable. That's exactly why it's the perfect plot! Nobody will see it coming! Or to put it another way, the best liar in the world lies exactly once in his life - but that one lie pays for all.
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Jul 3, 2015 10:59
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So why do we care? We are worried about the Dark Mech getting Athena. Our spymaster has just revealed she's part of some conspiracy against a sovereign marine chapter and that she hasn't been focusing on the good of the family. This all stinks of Eldar plotting and chaos trickery. Mom has killed loyal Krieger troops, engaged in conspiracy without notifying the lord sire, harbored an unknown Xeno among many other crimes. The only reason we haven't spaced her yet is she's family. Let her keep talking, if only to dig her own grave. "She's worth it", nip this in the bud, calling in a favor. Nope. No more eldar shenanigans. No more chaos kekaiku. If mom wants to play anti-chaos spymaster then go find Amatica. Your personal crusade comes second to the ship. All we have to do is say "No". And if Edourd wants a favor he has to be specific about it and not use vague time bullshit. Sorry. War is good for business.
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Jul 3, 2015 11:06
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Tomn posted:That's exactly why it's the perfect plot! Nobody will see it coming! The only evidence we have is what we have heard from a Tzeentch demon, and a woman we have known for five minutes.
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Jul 3, 2015 11:34
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We grew a functional, augmented human body from scratch. There's no reason we can't keep her on life support while we do a brain box interrogation.
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Jul 3, 2015 14:14
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Hear what she has to say for now, if she's lying she might reveal something we can use against them eventually, and keeping her thinking we're not against her is a good idea. We should ask the dwarf what he knows about mom's organisation afterwards, somewhere in private.
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Jul 3, 2015 16:00
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Talk first.
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Jul 3, 2015 16:05
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Think of it this way: If we let her talk first, we know what she WANTS us to think. And if we brainbox after, we'll find out what she ACTUALLY thinks. And comparing the two will provide useful intel.
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Jul 3, 2015 16:16
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Talk first. Perhaps after we might ask Edourd to help plan a seance using our ship's astropaths in order to psychically interrogate her. Such a method would also likely be able to determine if her soul has been tainted by Chaos as well as if she's really telling the truth. Corruption goes deeper than the physical body, after all, and if her soul is damned then we need to know before brainboxing her.
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Jul 3, 2015 16:32
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Tomn posted:Think of it this way: If we let her talk first, we know what she WANTS us to think. And if we brainbox after, we'll find out what she ACTUALLY thinks. And comparing the two will provide useful intel. Hmmm. This is actually a good point. Talk then Brainbox!
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Jul 3, 2015 16:38
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Arkanomen posted:So why do we care? We are worried about the Dark Mech getting Athena. Our spymaster has just revealed she's part of some conspiracy against a sovereign marine chapter and that she hasn't been focusing on the good of the family. This all stinks of Eldar plotting and chaos trickery. Absolutely correct about having priorities, however leaving her free and running around is insane. She isn't loyal to us. She has never once helped us since that one time she convinced Lord Sire to send us off to Mechanicus. She didn't help with Devries, she never undermined Siadwell except to defend her pet project, she didn't help us with the Eldar, and, most importantly, she didn't even know about or help us with the Dark Mechanicus rebellion against us. She's a heretic and a fanatic. This is something she's dedicated her whole life and existence to, thus she isn't going to drop it when we say pretty please. If we need to know something, ask the brain box. What did you want us to think, what is the truth, where did you learn all this information from, etc... Leaving her free, giving the impression you're considering the veracity of her words, or showing yourself to be incapable of dealing with a heretic who's a family member DOES undermine us in the eyes of everyone else in that room, especially husbando and Ed. Plus it might give Limosa ideas. ElrondHubbard fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 16:46
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Tran posted:The Ultramarines, which will henceforth be referred to by their correct name, the Smurfs. No, no, NO! The Smurfs are a bunch of impossibly perfect blue people who each have one and exactly one personality and job function led by an ancient figure of absolute wisdom who always knows the best thing to do, and their only interaction with a woman involves her being created by their arch enemy. The UltraSmurfs are the exact same thing, but in power armor and carrying big guns! Get it right! 
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Jul 3, 2015 17:29
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Best case is that this is Alpha Legion/ Our Favorite Feathery God fuckery and she believes. At minimum we should box and interrogate her, then possibly off her because she's been spreading this and we need to start cutting it out somewhere.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:39
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I don't think a the opinion of a bunch of tainted chapters like the Space Wolves, counts for much. Some spend their time whining, others like the Ultramarines are busy kicking rear end and being awesome.
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Jul 3, 2015 17:46
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keep talking x x x x x, x x x x x, x x x x x, x x brainbox x x x x x, shoot her x x x Oh good. With all this talk of 'no half measures' I thought we'd be killing her right out of the gate. I'll do a post sometime today maybe.
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Jul 3, 2015 18:18
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LowellDND posted:keep talking x x x x x, x x x x x, x x x x x, x x Remember I voted for both talking and brainboxing! And I think a lot of people are in favor of that option as well. We pretty clearly don't want her to wander around freely after this.
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Jul 3, 2015 18:26
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Amacita. The Pillar. The Lord-Sire Mnemonic Spine. The Staff. Athena. Don't buy the hype of the war to end all wars, ending the eternal conflict in our generation, etc. Irregardless of factual relevance it is still always a con. And the probable effects of the Beast visiting a Paradise World based on recent patterns: 
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Jul 3, 2015 18:47
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Explain to me, in great detail, why I shouldn't shoot you for heresy and wasting Family resources and find a new Spymaster.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:26
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She definitely needs to be killed or brain boxed at some point, but she may as well finish digging her own grave.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:49
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Adding to let her keep talking and then shooting and brain boxing Honestly I'm all for just wiping her out at the table but she most likely has some dead man switch on something.
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Jul 3, 2015 21:21
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shoot the heretic. Sure, the smurfs might suck and be docks about everything, but they are our dicks.
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Jul 3, 2015 21:22
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Traitors and Heretics Apparently the purges hadn’t gone far enough. Your brain immediately began running the numbers - a turned Spymaster, decades on your ship and in your Dynasty. It was a good thing you were rebuilding the ship from the frame up, she could have hidden tunnels and listening devices everywhere. And her agents could be deep cover, in place for your entire life. You would have to box her and find out the details. Your voice was a growl, augmented by your machines. “You pretended to serve my Family for decades, act as our agent, and instead were running an outside conspiracy? One that favors the destruction of an entire Legion of loyal Space Marines? How did you bypass the conditioning? How deep does the rot go?” She looked back at you defiantly, like a heretic would. “Your predecessor knew what I was and what I did. The Darkness has always been an enemy of this Dynasty, even if you don’t think they are an enemy of this Imperium.” “Oh, I don’t doubt that the Darkness is an enemy, I simply doubt that the Ultramarines are involved in it. How like the Great Enemy to turn us against our friends in our most trying hour.” “They aren’t our friends.” “The burden of proof on that is astronomical.” “And I intend to show it to you. First - how long have the Ultramarines been in charge?” “They haven’t been in charge.” “You know as well as I do that they are. They wrote the military doctrine of the Imperium. The Imperial Navy and Guard follow their edicts. The Space Marine Legions were broken into Chapters … except they never seem to do that for themselves. They are still the Ultramarine Legion. And you full well that without the military, nothing is possible in the Imperium.” “As one of the last Primarchs, I think Guilliman knew how to save the Imperium after the Horus Heresy.” “Did he? Or did he create the circumstances of its stagnation?” Thoughts of Athena flickered through your mind. “What do you mean?” “How long was the Great Crusade?” “About two centuries.” “And it reunited the galaxy under Human rule.” “It had twenty Primarchs and the God-Emperor walking the worlds. The current era doesn’t exactly have those.” “You know that the Great Crusade was started without them, to find them. And even if you assume we have no Primarchs to recover from the Horus Heresy, how long should it have taken? One millenia? Two? We have been struggling for ten millennia, Ohone!” “Don’t call me by my name.” “Fine then. Lord-Sire. Inquisitor. Magos. With the resources of Mars, of a Space Marine Legion, would it have taken you this long to repair the damage? Was the damage of the Horus Heresy so much worse than the Age of Strife?” “Rather baseless speculation, don’t you think? Anyone can look at a project and say ‘I can do better,’ but odds are they will break it even worse. And we both know that the Great Enemy appeals to Pride. Simply saying ‘oh, things are bad right now’ doesn’t mean our most trusted Legion is in fact our most dangerous enemy.” She gestured. “Certainly. But it gives you the context for the argument.” “I may just have you boxed, to speed this conversation up.” Carmilla met your gaze. “I would accept that if it would help you believe me.” “You scarcely are in a position to refuse.” “Conceded. Now, consider the history of Guilliman.” “What about him?” “Just his origin. Where he came from.” “After the Great Enemy scattered the Primarchs, he landed as a child on Macragge, where he was adopted by one of the Consuls there, Konor Guilliman.” “How did he come to power there?” “He excelled as all the Primarchs did. As he grew older, he lead an expedition to unite the barbarian tribes of the planet. When he returned to the capital, he found it under siege. The other Consul, Galan, had started a rebellion. He had laid siege to the Consul-House, and Konor Guilliman was deeply injured. When Roboute returned, he ended the siege and rescued Konor. With his dying breath, Konor told him who was responsible. Roboute executed Galan, and was given power over the planet by popular acclaim.” “Mm. Now tell me about the Horus Heresy.” Actually... She continued. “Same story, right? Goes on expedition, rebellion, capital under siege, he returns, ends the war, gains full power. You can exchange the names Konor, Galan, and Consul House to God-Emperor, Horus, and Terra, and it’s the exact same. He had found a strategy that worked. Galan wasn’t his enemy, he was his ally. Horus wasn’t his rival, but his agent.” “Then why turn on him? Why would Horus listen to him at all?” “Roboute told him about the Thunder Warriors.” “You are jumping around a lot in this heresy of yours.” “Remember - Age of Strife. The God-Emperor’s first attempt at super-soldiers. The Thunder Warriors.” “He united Holy Terra with them, and they all died in the last battle.” “That he did, but they didn’t die to enemy fire.” “What do you mean?” “The God-Emperor thought that such warriors wouldn’t help him in creating the new world he building. So he got rid of them. Guilliman told Horus that was going to happen to them too, which was why the God-Emperor had returned to Holy Terra. To build his next generation of super-humans.” “So Horus started the rebellion…” “And when it came to attack, Guilliman was ‘out on an expedition.’ Don’t you think it odd he was sent to fight Orks but didn’t find any?” “So where does your heretical organization come in?” “The God-Emperor knew who had betrayed him. He created us to destroy the Ultramarines, and punish Guilliman for his hubris.” What do you do? I’m heading out to get food, so here’s some infodumps.
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Jul 3, 2015 21:27
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Yeah, this still isn't enough of a dent into the mountain of evidence you'd need to say that the UltraSmurfs are plotting against the Imperium. Better start presenting actual stuff before we let Fabyian do the whole  thing...
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Jul 3, 2015 21:33
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If this were a detective movie she'd be telling the truth AND playing us for a fool. Which is why it's a good thing we have the brainbox. Of course she could be played for a fool too so...
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Jul 3, 2015 21:35
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I wonder why the capabilities of the Imperium were different before and after the Heresy...
sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 21:36
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This is 9/11 levels of conspiracy theory.
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Jul 3, 2015 21:44
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I am still waiting for facts, mom. Actual evidence and proof.
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Jul 3, 2015 21:46
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Kill, Box, then Kill again.
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Jul 3, 2015 21:47
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Girlyman can't melt iron men 
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Jul 3, 2015 21:48
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Mr Apollo posted:Kill, Box, then Kill again. Yup. Even if she hasn't been subverted directly, she's been subverted without her knowledge. This is exactly the sort of conspiracy that paranoid fools see in the shadows.
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Jul 3, 2015 22:02
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 15:14 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0
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Jul 3, 2015 22:03
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