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paragon1 posted:Lowell are you asking us for a plan on how to actually supply the Kriegers? That does seem to be the primary problem at hand with the Krieger's supply line gone. All the murder-servitors in the world aren't much good without ammo. Everything else is secondary to making sure they have what it takes to keep fighting day to day. LowellDND posted:Yes, good Awesome. Let's brainstorm a bit for alternatives, though - what other methods are there of getting something from space onto the ground without destroying both it and the ground in the process?
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Feb 6, 2015 05:26
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LowellDND posted:Yes, good Oh, well then. I'm with Tomn on using controlled orbital drops. If we've got a suitable body of water it could be a goddamn shipping crate and serve the purpose. If we've gotta' put it on land though I'd say clean up some of the loose old torpedoes lying around in between.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:26
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The real question is, how can we swing this to our advantage? It's a shame that Liandros is already sold. It would have been way funnier to stick him in with the murder-death-fun-corps 
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Feb 6, 2015 05:27
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We got Devries buildings, but what sort of vehicles did he leave behind? anything with space to planet capability?
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Feb 6, 2015 05:28
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JT Jag posted:Oh well what would you suggest Warhammer Guru My Dad Whatever you think would be best. My voting method is merely following the OSS bureaucratic interference instructions from sections 11-a and 12 of their sabotage manual.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:29
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Oh, one resource we might be interested in is salvaging what's left of the dropped space elevator.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:31
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Can we salvage the line that was cut from the ship that left? Maybe tow the top end back up into space somehow and attach it to the beast? E: drat beaten
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Feb 6, 2015 05:31
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Haystack posted:Oh, one resource we might be interested in is salvaging what's left of the dropped space elevator. Sure. Its risky and damaged, but its possible. Possible problems: it'll prolly be open to vacuum. HiHo ChiRho posted:We got Devries buildings, but what sort of vehicles did he leave behind? anything with space to planet capability? Sure, why not. Lets go with a handful of shuttles with low radar profiles.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:33
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LowellDND posted:Sure. Its risky and damaged, but its possible. Possible problems: it'll prolly be open to vacuum. ...say, unrelated to the point at hand, but if there are any physics majors in here I'm suddenly curious. If you create an enormous enclosed tube with one end open within atmosphere and the other end open in hard vacuum - a giant straw backed by nigh-infinite sucking power, in other words - what happens?
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Feb 6, 2015 05:37
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Tomn posted:...say, unrelated to the point at hand, but if there are any physics majors in here I'm suddenly curious. If you create an enormous enclosed tube with one end open within atmosphere and the other end open in hard vacuum - a giant straw backed by nigh-infinite sucking power, in other words - what happens? Thats hilarious and I have no idea 
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Feb 6, 2015 05:38
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Tomn posted:...say, unrelated to the point at hand, but if there are any physics majors in here I'm suddenly curious. If you create an enormous enclosed tube with one end open within atmosphere and the other end open in hard vacuum - a giant straw backed by nigh-infinite sucking power, in other words - what happens? Tomn, why can't all your questions leave me giggling like a mad, voidborn schoolgirl?
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Feb 6, 2015 05:39
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Is it being open to vacuum an insurmountable issue? It's transporting supplies, after all. What's our best option, then? It's a whole army, so it probably won't suffice to just use the shuttles at our disposal. Can we use the resources DeVries left to do what we can while we re-connect that elevator? Speaking of which, any progress on finding DeVries? Also, whatever we do, we should be doing it while trying to make progress against Limosa somehow. And being on our guard against sabotage, of course. It would be very, very convenient for Limosa for our efforts to do good for the Family to fail.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:39
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Not a physics major, but not much would happen, actually, for the same reason the atmosphere doesn't just leak out. There is no "sucking"
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Feb 6, 2015 05:40
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We can use the shuttles with low radar profiles to steal something more substantial to help in transporting needs. Who needs to bug the navy with obtaining drop pod deployment ships when we procure a few of our own?
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Feb 6, 2015 05:43
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Asking my physics major friend on FB, we'll see if he replies. For supplying 600,000 Krieg, you'll need a big project. Storms of drop pods, repaired space elevator, whatever. If you want to smuggle xenotek, the shuttles might be your thing. Devries is still missing. HiHo ChiRho posted:We can use the shuttles with low radar profiles to steal something more substantial to help in transporting needs. Who needs to bug the navy with obtaining drop pod deployment ships when we procure a few of our own? We're back at stealing Navy ships again I see
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Feb 6, 2015 05:44
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Tomn posted:...say, unrelated to the point at hand, but if there are any physics majors in here I'm suddenly curious. If you create an enormous enclosed tube with one end open within atmosphere and the other end open in hard vacuum - a giant straw backed by nigh-infinite sucking power, in other words - what happens? Presumably the planet's gravity keeps the air towards the planet, like it does with the rest of the atmosphere (which is also open to the nigh-infinite sucking power of hard vacuum). The warming/cooling/insulating effect of the tube regarding sunlight would probably create some gnarly sucking and blowing through the day and night as the air inside contracts and expands from slight temperature changes.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:45
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LowellDND posted:We're back at stealing Navy ships again I see Well we only need em for the war! they can have them back once its over
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Feb 6, 2015 05:47
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How secure and lengthy is the ground route between the beast's elevator base and the kreig base? Because we've got whole tribes full of folks who like slapping together vehicles in a hurry...
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Feb 6, 2015 05:48
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Haystack posted:How secure and lengthy is the ground route between the beast's elevator base and the kreig base? Because we've got whole tribes full of folks who like slapping together vehicles in a hurry... Very secure, perhaps a few dozen kilometers. There are new roads and bridges so far as the trenches, and after that its Krieg town.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:52
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Truck transport is probably the least efficient form of cargo hauling outside, I dunno, helicopters. You need a mag lev train line.
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Feb 6, 2015 05:52
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Shadeoses posted:Truck transport is probably the least efficient form of cargo hauling outside, I dunno, helicopters. You need a mag lev train line. As it happens, several hundred thousand tons of rails just crashed nearby. edit: Physics friend replied: "Basically, no, the same pressures and gravity that keep the atmosphere down here will be in effect" Still, I love the idea
Loel fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 05:54
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Okay can we secure the drat crash site like YESTERDAY?
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Feb 6, 2015 05:58
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Start using the beasts elevator to bring down krieg poo poo. Use broken elevator to build train line/road/whatever to transport along surface. Use our awesome people plus krieg terror squads to clear A to B area for the train line. Think up a narrative that explains how we got ahold of Deveries poo poo so quick 'well we saw that there were abnormal deaths and a lack of communication activity from those areas so went to have a look, on seeing they were abandoned we appropriated them for the war effort. The fact the Deveries has stolen himself on board my ship and falsified my markings to do so is disturbing, we will attempt to detain the man asap.' Anyone else find it weird that she confused us with amacita? That's... Disturbing. She could be a plant.
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Feb 6, 2015 06:10
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LowellDND posted:As it happens, several hundred thousand tons of rails just crashed nearby. All right, sounds like we got a plan! Use hollow torpedoes from the Beast as supply drop pods as a stop-gap measure. While this is on-going, salvage the space elevator to create a mag lev train line from our own space elevator to the Kriegers - which, as a bonus, could also be used to shuttle reinforcements and the like between locations, so we should see if we can convince the IG over here to shell out for the rail line as well, double-dipping in effect. If the Kriegers still think they need it, we can take this time to set up ANOTHER space elevator, thus providing both locations with redundant supply sources in case one elevator goes down. Also, shame. Here I was imagining us finally managing to steal the Hive by attaching a giant straw to the top...
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Feb 6, 2015 06:12
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Tomn posted:Also, shame. Here I was imagining us finally managing to steal the Hive by attaching a giant straw to the top... Me: given a space elevator, is it possible to turn it into a straw? Him: Yes! With lots of fans! Basically you need to change the pressure gradient I mean traditionally a space elevator would be a giant cable with a tram that rides it rather than a building or something along those lines Me: right, I described it as several trams (for convenience sake). So would the fans be inside the cable, or? Him :You could mount them on a cable probably, I mean you're going very much against the intended use It's designed to transport stuff, not move air, air's tough to move Maybe you could mount a series of giant fan blades on a cable and spin them up Me: how big/many would the fans have to be? (ballpark). football field sized? Him: Basically you have to generate 2atm of pressure in the other direction or accellerate it to about 10km/s Which means that you're looking at really fast, and incredibly high grade materials The size matters less than the speed though Or rather the size depends on how quickly you want to drain atmo Loel fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 06:15
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Tomn posted:Also, shame. Here I was imagining us finally managing to steal the Hive by attaching a giant straw to the top... All it means is that we can't use the vacuum itself as suction. Should we have a power source for said suction, however.... 
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Feb 6, 2015 06:17
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For a functional space elevator, all you really need is a solid tethered strand to act as a guide line. The actual "elevator" part of it needs a working brake method and powered ascent, but guess who just had to improvise a similar device not so long ago. By simply making a mobile transit module voidsafe we can get it up to partial capacity in relatively short order. Combined arms approach. Orbital drops of durable supplies like rations and water and overland transit of volatile items from our functional elevator. Task the subsixers with salvaging the dropped elevator for partial refurbishment ASAP. Once the repaired elevator is working in any reasonable capacity, we can shift workload over to it in stages while continuing refurbishment. Edit: Outrail posted:Anyone else find it weird that she confused us with amacita? That's... Disturbing. She could be a plant. I honestly felt that was a pretty obvious tell that she's working for DeVries. Nobody else would be likely to make that mistake. Tran fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 06:17
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Ok, so I like the following so far: Drop pods: Short term, expensive fast-response solution. Flat out state that things will be expedited and that there will be discounts if the Kreig can pull some strings and get ships officially assigned to the task. Trucks: Short to medium term, fairly cheap, slow latency. A possible downside is that our elevator might not be up to supplying an entire extra army, but we can downplay that. Getting enough vehicles to start with might be troublesome, but the Kreig should have some idle logistics trucks, and the tribes can perhaps supply extras. The fact that we have major sway with the IG means that we can push for amenities to be made for the situation without coming off as some entitled nob git. Train: Medium to long term, expensive to build, cheap to run, high volume, slow latency, kind of a security nightmare. Has the same drawbacks as the trucks idea. Fix the space elevator: Medium or long term, expensive & risky, high reward. Machine spirits are possibly tainted, but we're fairly well equipped to handle that. Propose all of these, emphasizing our ability to provide comprehensive and progressive solutions to the issue. Particularly stress our good standing with the neighboring camp, which will make setting up logistics uniquely easy
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Feb 6, 2015 06:23
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I like the combined answers. If I understand it right we'll be... Start work on repairing the second space elevator and laying down train tracks immediately. While we wait for the two to go online use shuttles and drop-pods to deliver essential goods and trucks to deliver less essential goods. Start using trains and the space elevator as soon as they come online Does that sound about right?
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Feb 6, 2015 06:36
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Also, seriously, if the Kriegers go for the train, double-dip and try to sell the idea to the IG over here as well as a way of fast-reinforcing. Get 'em both to pay us for the same job!
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Feb 6, 2015 06:40
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Tran posted:I honestly felt that was a pretty obvious tell that she's working for DeVries. Nobody else would be likely to make that mistake. Considering that she went and called us General in the next sentence, I don't think it was a mistake, just DeVries reminding us that he's still around and still has pull (c'mon he had this lady on the payroll when he was planetside).
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Feb 6, 2015 06:44
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By the way, Lowell, how DOES supplying the Krieg look like on the profit-o-meter? B, C, D?
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Feb 6, 2015 07:46
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Tomn posted:By the way, Lowell, how DOES supplying the Krieg look like on the profit-o-meter? B, C, D? Not a clue. I haven't read the Rogue Trader book in any detail beyond the classes. However, I will say its comparable to Lord-Sire's contract, which was for suppling an entire Army Group of a million soldiers (now somewhat smaller). So... whatever feeding a large city by yourself is. edit: Looks like the Family has a profit factor of ... 66 or so. Its been floating 60-70 for most of your life. Ching Shih, the Founder, was probably at 100 or so. This operation is a Greater Endeavor, as it is going to take a couple years and involves quite a bit of support. I can't find a ABCD chart for profit factors, but I think its safe to say that you'll bring 1 profit factor to the Ship over the course of this arc. We'll say Lord-Sire got 2 from helping the Nallani, and that the pilgrim route was net zero or fractional increases. Lord-Sire is a cautious and calculating trader, but he has you for the risky ventures 
Loel fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 08:01
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Could we use our influence to put DeVry's on the inquisitors radar as a probable heretic?
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Feb 6, 2015 08:12
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Amateurs Study Strategy, Professionals Study Logistics You begin sketching with your hands. “Initially, emergency drop pods. If you can direct your supply ships to the Beast, and request a couple waves of drop pods, we can begin there. If need be, we can take the warheads out of torpedoes and use them as containers. How many supplies will you need?” “Twenty four thousand tons per day should be enough. We could go up as high as forty, but we can fight on twenty four.” You were tempted to make a face, spoke instead. “I am raising my eyebrow. That’s a small footprint for a force of your size.” “I am pleased at your observation. Krieg fight more with less.” That made sense. If you didn’t even set up tables in your Army Group HQ, you could probably didn’t need as much. “Okay, so we probably won’t need torpedoes. Meanwhile, I would like clearance to pass through your AO and access the remains of the elevator.” “We’ve begun dismantling a lot of it - that much steel can reinforce a lot of lines.” “Its still available though, right?” “Most of it, yes. I’ll tell the troops to set it out for you.” By the God-Emperor, this was a coup. You never would have thought that killing a psider would have gotten this kind of pay out later on, but you are getting an Army Group sized contract. Even your Lord-Sire had only matched it this campaign - you were doubling the profit factor. If you weren’t in the middle of a Krieg encampment, you doubted you’d be able to contain yourself. “Excellent. I will be deploying my regiments to aid in the effort. One regiment will begin laying track for a train line from our elevator to you, and the other will just be delivering with trucks. Can you show me on the map where your central logistical hub is?” The Krieg troops seem to shift in their seats, like a small wind was going through them. You looked at them, then back at the Commissar. “Right. Not the hub. Somewhere else you determine.” That seemed to settle them down. Less efficient, but more safe, and you didn’t care as long as you secured the contract. “Once the tracks are laid, we’ll convert the trucks to trains, and get a more stable supply line going. While all this is going on, the Beast will be re-anchoring the elevator to itself. We’re stripping a lot of its support, so it won’t be able to do as much as the main line we’re using for the Nallani, but it should suffice for your needs.” You gestured. “My Lord-Sire will be taking fees from the supply ships, so you don’t need to worry about that side of things. Please notify your Quartermasters, though, of our salvaging the Elevator, laying track, re-anchoring the elevator, and maintaining the ground logistic lines.” You pushed forward a number on a scrap of paper, and Fabiyan nodded. “That all seems acceptable. More than acceptable, actually, I’ve seen other operations ask for 50% more.” You didn’t smile. “I just want to help the war effort.” Sincera Pax was waiting in the shuttle when you returned. “Did you enjoy your meeting with the Krieg?” You would have frowned, but it took an effort to remember how. “Well enough, I suppose.” “They agree to your terms to replace the elevator?” “What makes you think I was here for that?” She motioned. “An emissary of a Trader Family, with access to an elevator, coming here within hours of the crash. Why else would you be here?” “Reasonable speculation. It went well enough.” She meet your eyes. “A suspicious person would find it interesting that a rival Family was forced to leave so suddenly, and leave such a lucrative contract for their neighbor.” “I couldn’t say to the motives of their leaving.” “A suspicious person would find it particularly interesting that they were forced to flee by psyker attack, particularly after someone had heroically defeated a psyker monster only a few months before.” “What makes you think it was a psyker attack?” “You’ve seen the first few minutes, I’m sure. The part not banned by the Inquisition, of course. It was very interesting.” Was she saying she was in the Inquisition, or that she knew you were? Or something else entirely? Best to hedge. “A suspicious person might find all sorts of things interesting.” “You defeat monsters in the dark, Devries vanishes to your ship, a rival in space is forced to flee, and you are there to replace them immediately, even as your ground forces replaced Devries’ forces. It’s all very interesting to me.” “I’m sure you find lots of things interesting.” “You have no idea. Tea?” She held out her flask. You eyed it, considering binary poisons, and shook your head. This Inspector was acting insane. Was she working for Devries and trying to shake you up? Was she actually this honest and unselfaware? Who goes up to their target and asks them all the questions of their investigation? Was it some plan of someone you weren’t aware of yet? Or was Limosa behind it in someway? Maybe even Amacita? You stared at her the rest of the flight, mind full of questions. What do you do? A. Manage the logistics in person, its the most important task right now B. Its laying railroad track. A few examples and a few vox calls, they’ll be fine. You want to continue researching the Inquisitor notes C. Inquisition can wait, you need to figure out the Amacita footage D. Limosa has landed, lets work on that for now E. Something Else Im assuming you are doing basic things like telling the troops how to make a railtrack, as well as doublebilling the local IG for the new railroad.
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Feb 6, 2015 08:25
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C, following up with A if it doesn't give us cause for immediate concern. It might be a threat. It might be something else. If it's not a threat, it can wait until we've secured our profit line, but let's not leave it hanging until we know that.
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Feb 6, 2015 09:08
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A Focus on the money for now. Limosa and Amacita don't matter if we nail this coup hard.
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Feb 6, 2015 09:09
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b We should probably start doing what the Inquisitor told us too.
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Feb 6, 2015 09:13
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A - Keep your eyes on the prize. We can untangle conspiracies later. Besides, if we keep gaining favor with our Liege and with the army, we'll have enough free time to finally do what the Magos asked us to.
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Feb 6, 2015 09:17
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Yeah I don't think she's working for DeVries. I'd bet she's an honest cop who was trying to get us to provide an incriminating response. Betting we couldn't keep all our lies straight. She could also probably easily check the records and figure out Amacita never actually visited the surface. Basically, she knows we're dirty and is trying to nail us. Maybe she gave a poo poo about that penal battalion for some reason. Anyway, C because the idea of Amacita being able to hide something from us when we have her under near constant surveillance bothers me more than all the weird psyker poo poo and xenos in the galaxy.
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Feb 6, 2015 09:35
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