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TheSpiritFox
Jan 4, 2009

I'm just a memory, I can't give you any new information.



So I have been asked to consider a move to New Zealand. My fiance thinks the US is a shithole and we need to flee the country and I think she's gone a little nuts talking to people from other countries who are horrified by the state of the US.

I have an ex wife who I have joint custody with and as I understand it there's not a snowballs chance in hell of moving my son outside the US while he is a minor and I will never get her approval. I do not have a job skill that New Zealand is looking for and I would never move to another country on a temporary work visa when the move is intended to be permanent. And honestly, I would never consider moving to New Zealand or anywhere that far away from most of the rest of the civilized world, if anything I would maybe consider somewhere in Europe.

I don't know much about immigration, I've never given much thought to leaving the US, and now my fiance is asking me to take her seriously as she's picked out what she thinks will be an idyllic setting to raise kids and be safe from all the cultural problems the US has and so forth. I do not know how to take this seriously, as I would never consider moving away from my son and have never had intentions of uprooting our family to another country without a drat good reason which we do not have (like a job that one of us has to move to follow).

Basically we're just your average couple, we're relatively poor, and I can't think of anything that would set us apart from anyone else who works jobs in the customer service sector of the US such that another country who's got it's poo poo together better than the US would say "yeah, we want you to move here!"

Anyone have anything more illuminating for me than that?

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killaer
Aug 4, 2007
No.

You're stuck here, enjoy your death sentence.

Bip Roberts
Mar 29, 2005



Obama gonna kill ya.

kidhash
Jan 10, 2007


The word you're looking for is emigration, because you're talking about leaving somewhere.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008


You're hosed, assuming that a) you or your fiancÚ don't have close foreign heritage (like a British dad, say) and b) you want to move to somewhere in the First World. Soz. Decades of anti-immigrant sentiment against the Mexicans/Polish/Koreans/Turks/insert-minority-here for whichever country you're thinking of going to mean immigrating to any country in the First World is incredibly difficult and expensive if you straight-up marry one of their citizens or have the sort of in-demand skills to get one of their companies to sponsor you, and basically impossible otherwise.

MettleRamiel
Jun 29, 2005


What are your current and past careers, your fiance's as well. Sometimes, the most needed workers in a country are not what you expect. Australia, for example, is constantly screaming for Hairdressers.

TheSpiritFox
Jan 4, 2009

I'm just a memory, I can't give you any new information.



I've worked call centers and fundraising and such, worked for HRC and a few other non profits, and am in school for HVAC-R. She is in school for rad tech. All of our history working is customer service/food service and similar jobs. We're both white and of European heritage, both born American citizens, her family is German and mine Cajun french but our families have all been over here for generations and there aren't any extended relatives we know of anywhere but the US. I'm well aware that we have no job skills of relevance to another country as of yet, and I doubt that Rad Tech or HVAC are going to be in overly high demand such that we could emigrate (thanks for that english check) to anywhere in the first world.

I mean, I look at it as something that is pretty much completely out of the question in every way. We don't have money to set ourselves up anywhere, we're living paycheck to paycheck as it is here. I used just about all of my meager savings just trying to get a trade skill to get out of customer service, we didn't have family support or anything to go to 4 year colleges, and as I mentioned I have a 2 year old. Though I don't know much about custody and emigration I do know that just leaving the country for a visit to another requires permission from both parents in writing and we have joint custody and my ex is not so lovely a mother as to lose her custody so there would be no way to move him before he turns 18 and can simply choose for himself as an adult. And there's no way in hell I'm leaving him under any circumstances, ever so theres no way I'd ever be moving, not even once he was an adult, I'm not living in a different country than my kids unless they are the ones who leave and I cannot follow, you know? I'm not a live for career kinda guy, I'm a live for family kinda guy, and my family is here.

So yeah to me it seems like a complete impossibility and something that you think about in a "well wouldn't it be nice if we could just all escape" kinda way. I just wanted to ask goons because I know there are people on these forums who actually have left the US for other countries (usually as some kind of highly valued worker or something) and I wanted to know their experiences.

The way she's talking about it she doesn't think we could move now but wants to seriously consider making it essentially our life goal to find a way to be able to move to another country and I think that by the time we would be able to do that we'd have kids in college, if it were ever possible at all, and she's thinking that she wants to raise kids there. The entire point from her perspective is that it's a better place to raise a family than here and I do not see any way we could a) afford it ever or b) figure it out so that we could actually move our family there while they were still young enough to be in the process of being raised.

And if emigration were ever possible I would want Europe and nowhere else I can think of. I don't want to get murdered by something poisonous in the Outback or move to any country with only 4 million people spread across 14 cities. I grew up in Houston, I like urban. France, Spain, Britain, Italy, or like Denmark or something. I know that's probably even less likely than NZ or Australia. Canada would be a possibility down the line maybe.

Oh and because it's probably relevant she has PTSD and I have pretty severe depression and anxiety (diagnosed)

TheSpiritFox fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2014 around 21:06

kidhash
Jan 10, 2007


I moved from the UK to Canada, and have just (6 years after I first arrived) gotten Permanent Residency, which allows me essentially to stay in Canada indefinitely. I would think that if you were both dead set on somewhere, it would probably be possible to make it happen, but it certainly wouldn't be easy.

In your case if you don't want to move for at least the next 16 years due to your child, then just say that.

CzarChasm
Mar 14, 2009

Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?


I remember a few years ago my wife and I were looking into moving to Canada (from US). We got the same "about 7 years for citizenship" thing that kidhash describes.

I'd imagine that it would be similar for most other countries.

I don't want to get too E/N in here, but you don't really seem in favor of this idea. What exactly makes America a "shithole" for her and conversely what makes New Zealand so appealing?

TheSpiritFox
Jan 4, 2009

I'm just a memory, I can't give you any new information.



CzarChasm posted:

I remember a few years ago my wife and I were looking into moving to Canada (from US). We got the same "about 7 years for citizenship" thing that kidhash describes.

I'd imagine that it would be similar for most other countries.

I don't want to get too E/N in here, but you don't really seem in favor of this idea. What exactly makes America a "shithole" for her and conversely what makes New Zealand so appealing?

Things like living in a small town that owns a tank and police shootings, the legislation of women's reproductive systems, and everything about American politics in the last few decades are her reason for going. As to why NZ, she's read a bunch about the place and how nice it is for people who live there, about how their health care works and how beautiful it is and a bunch of other stuff that I'm sure the citizens like. She knows a few people who live there as well through a mother's group she's been a part of for a while.

Being completely honest, she has done her research into why she personally would like to live there and decided this was the best decision our family could make and now she wants me to get behind it and I'm not going to. She doesn't know a thing about emigration or about the costs we would incurr or what NZ would actually want from us before they would allow us to move there with an eye towards permanent residency.

She wants me to consider this like it's a realistic possibility and it is not, and she's angry with me for not treating her proposal like a serious decision that I should actively consider making or want to make. I don't, I don't have to consider it for a second before I know I do not want to move to NZ, I do not want to leave my family here, there is nothing about the idea that appeals to me on any level ever, and she called me close minded for knowing what I want without having to spend a long time thinking about it or caring what details about how nice it is she can tell me.

If we were rich as hell and could afford to fly back several times a year across an ocean to visit friends and family I might be willing to consider it. That will likely never be the case.

:Edit:

Also, as my core reason for me not liking the idea myself, I believe the people are more important than the place and we have connections to people here, friends and family, that I do not want to lose. And if we moved to another country, if we were able to manage that, we would probably never see any of them again or if we did it would be a few times over the rest of our lifetimes. As I said, we are not rich and never will be.

TheSpiritFox fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2014 around 21:48

CzarChasm
Mar 14, 2009

Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?


TheSpiritFox posted:

Things like living in a small town that owns a tank and police shootings, the legislation of women's reproductive systems, and everything about American politics in the last few decades are her reason for going. As to why NZ, she's read a bunch about the place and how nice it is for people who live there, about how their health care works and how beautiful it is and a bunch of other stuff that I'm sure the citizens like. She knows a few people who live there as well through a mother's group she's been a part of for a while.

Being completely honest, she has done her research into why she personally would like to live there and decided this was the best decision our family could make and now she wants me to get behind it and I'm not going to. She doesn't know a thing about emigration or about the costs we would incurr or what NZ would actually want from us before they would allow us to move there with an eye towards permanent residency.

She wants me to consider this like it's a realistic possibility and it is not, and she's angry with me for not treating her proposal like a serious decision that I should actively consider making or want to make. I don't, I don't have to consider it for a second before I know I do not want to move to NZ, I do not want to leave my family here, there is nothing about the idea that appeals to me on any level ever, and she called me close minded for knowing what I want without having to spend a long time thinking about it or caring what details about how nice it is she can tell me.

If we were rich as hell and could afford to fly back several times a year across an ocean to visit friends and family I might be willing to consider it. That will likely never be the case.

Fair enough. I don't know what the political climate is like there, but if that's her main reason for leaving I'm guessing that's what she looked for first.

If she hasn't already, she may want to check out http://www.immigration.govt.nz/

I did a quick check and (if I picked the right options) the fees to apply for a Permanent Resident VISA is about $1400 per application (not per person). Oh, and just to note

New Zealand posted:

If we decline your application or registration, we will not refund the fee. The processing cost is the same whether or not we approve your application/registration.

So if they decide they don't need any more Americans taking up residence in their rolling hills, you're out just shy of $1500 with nothing to show for it.

Work VISAs might be a little different, and you might get one easier if you are skilled /experienced in any of the fields here. This is what they are looking for now: http://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/wo...jobs-industries

Good luck.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

quote:

Things like living in a small town that owns a tank and police shootings, the legislation of women's reproductive systems, and everything about American politics in the last few decades are her reason for going. As to why NZ, she's read a bunch about the place and how nice it is for people who live there, about how their health care works and how beautiful it is and a bunch of other stuff that I'm sure the citizens like. She knows a few people who live there as well through a mother's group she's been a part of for a while.
How about instead of immediately rejecting her idea, at least pay it lip service, then go back to her with a list of pros and cons. Then you can be like, "well we probably can't move to NZ, but what we CAN do quite easily is move to a more progressive part of the country that doesn't have as many of these problems" and then have some info about New England or the pacific northwest. Never been to New Zealand myself, but when I was interested in the country a while back I remember people saying that near the coast in Oregon and Washington is somewhat similar climate-wise at least.

cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea


Yeah just find a better part of america, it's a loving massive country and there are plenty of places that don't have police forces rolling around in tanks.

With no money, no jobs lined up and no phd's you will not get into new zealand. they're one of the stricter countries when it comes to immigration. The only visa you can get is a working holiday visa (and that's not guaranteed) and then both of you need to find jobs that will sponsor you within the year, and retail/service jobs will not.

look here - http://www.migrationbureau.com/newz...immigration.php

you could always spend a year focusing on both qualifying for the skill shortage list... maybe get yourself a diploma in dairy technology or a "National Certificate in Pork Production Husbandry (NZQF Level 4)"

cubicle gangster fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2014 around 23:45

peanut
Sep 9, 2007

CENSORSHIP ROCKS


My family lives in the US but they're spread out so my dad only sees my brother once a year anyway.

I know an American girl who got a job in NZ cooking at a rural nursing home. Her special qualifications were speaking English and willingness to work night shift in a rural area. She paid her own way over, of course. hth

Lord Windy
Mar 26, 2010


She realizes that people from New Zealand mass emigrate to Australia for better economic living conditions right? There are 800,000 Kiwis living abroad for an island that only has 4.5 million people. 647,000 live in Australia thanks to our open borders with NZ while only 65,000 Aussies live in New Zealand. Their minimum wage of of $NZD 14.25 is considered poor and they have an unemployment rate of 6%.

The place is hardly some amazing wonderland. I haven't checked, but I would doubt you guys would get any benefits or even access to their social healthcare unless you were permanent residents. I'm not even sure that a rad tech would even be able to operate in NZ. I'm near positive in Australia it is a bachelors degree level position as my mother was trying to push me into Radiology when I was in High School. I agree politically that the country is very liberal. I intend to emigrate there if I could ever decouple my earning power away from being located in Australia or could get a similar job there but unless you have a skill that pays you well in America you are probably going to be worse off losing your support network.

Lord Windy
Mar 26, 2010


Huh, my reply refuses to show up

TheSpiritFox
Jan 4, 2009

I'm just a memory, I can't give you any new information.



Lord Windy posted:

Huh, my reply refuses to show up

I see it, and thanks. Everyone else too.

And yeah, I'm looking into pros and cons which is why I'm posting this, though really I just don't want to go anywhere near Islands (even big ones) in the pacific. Having a list of pros and cons for NZ helps, but at the same time at this point we are not in a position to emigrate anywhere and our support network (which has been a huge help as of late) is all within 200 miles of where we currently live and nowhere else.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

A homeless person was out on the street, looked up at me and said, "Draft Manziel." Just like that.

And that convinced me, that the Cleveland Browns' fans wanted Manziel.

Maybe you should just move to a different state.

Lord Windy
Mar 26, 2010


There are benefits for attempting to become capable of emigrating. You could take the focus off emigrating and put it on trying to get to the point where you could emigrate.

Most countries require a bachelors degree in a skill that is demand, like the sciences, engineering, programming etc which would give you guys better living conditions as those jobs pay far more. You might find your partner more willing to stay if you guys aren't as poor. You say you can't get one, but if one of you get a better job (HVAC-R or Rad tech possibly) than one of you could support the other in college.

I don't recommend having any more kids until the degree is finished which would be 4 years away minimum.

Tao Jones
Jun 15, 2007

Y'all dudes is a hot damn mess
I'm way too blessed to be stressed


TheSpiritFox posted:

Being completely honest, she has done her research into why she personally would like to live there and decided this was the best decision our family could make and now she wants me to get behind it and I'm not going to. She doesn't know a thing about emigration or about the costs we would incurr or what NZ would actually want from us before they would allow us to move there with an eye towards permanent residency.

She wants me to consider this like it's a realistic possibility and it is not, and she's angry with me for not treating her proposal like a serious decision that I should actively consider making or want to make. I don't, I don't have to consider it for a second before I know I do not want to move to NZ, I do not want to leave my family here, there is nothing about the idea that appeals to me on any level ever, and she called me close minded for knowing what I want without having to spend a long time thinking about it or caring what details about how nice it is she can tell me.

My advice is to resolve this situation before your fiance becomes your wife. The worst-case scenario here is that one of you subordinates your feelings to the other's will and ends up resenting them for not/moving to New Zealand. (Well, I suppose a possibly worse scenario is that you agree to move to New Zealand, spend all this time and money to do it, and then she has a meltdown over culture shock and wants to go home.)

TheSpiritFox
Jan 4, 2009

I'm just a memory, I can't give you any new information.



Tao Jones posted:

My advice is to resolve this situation before your fiance becomes your wife. The worst-case scenario here is that one of you subordinates your feelings to the other's will and ends up resenting them for not/moving to New Zealand. (Well, I suppose a possibly worse scenario is that you agree to move to New Zealand, spend all this time and money to do it, and then she has a meltdown over culture shock and wants to go home.)

We're not getting married until 2016 (finishing school first)

:Edit:

One thing I was wondering, I did check out the NZ lists of wanted skills and such and I saw a bunch of general information but they obviously didn't have information as to what specifically is wanted and what would get me in the door. I imagine that the positions desired, outside of things that would always get you in like being a Doctor, changes pretty frequently, especially anything with 4 year or less degree requirements. I saw "trades" but I have no idea where I'd figure out what trades they want and be able to predict if they'd even need my trade down the road when I could go there.

Someone mentioned that Australia is in desperate need for hairdressers, where do you find out stuff like that? I don't even know what to google besides "what jobs does x country want?" which will be a clusterfuck to sort out. And then, you know, searching now and executing a plan I could easily end up having a job they don't want by the time I actually would be ready to apply. How do you even begin to plan something like that out when you're talking about limited means?

TheSpiritFox fucked around with this message at Aug 16, 2014 around 04:54

Lord Windy
Mar 26, 2010


This is the one for Australia. Just select the occupation ceiling.

Positive Optimyst
Oct 25, 2010

Own only what you can carry with you; know language, know countries, know people. Let your memory be your travel bag. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Gold is the money of kings; silver is the currency of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants and debt is the money of slaves.


Spirit Fox,

I may have missed it, but your fiance is a US citizen, correct?

Even if you had the funds it would be difficult to emigrate to NZ or other European (or "first world" nations) as other posters have noted. Emigration to these place is difficult.

Then, there are the job skills. You are not STEM or have a needed skill (no offense, just stating the facts).

I have lived in Asia for about 14 years. I am very happy here and the thought of returning to the US is frightening.

For me, the US is a good place to visit, but not a good place to live.

Bip Roberts
Mar 29, 2005



As Positive Optimyst said since you're not good enough for the major leagues maybe you should think about slumming it up.

Serrath
Mar 17, 2005

I have nothing of value to contribute


I moved to Australia from Canada on a skilled migrant visa (perm residence) but I've liked it enough that I recently sought and obtained citizenship.

TheSpiritFox posted:

Someone mentioned that Australia is in desperate need for hairdressers, where do you find out stuff like that?

Australia grants PR on a points system. It's not enough to have a skill on the needed skills list, having a trade on that list grants x points, certain demographic conditions (e.g., being under 30 years of age) grant x points, having attended university in Australia or having a relative here grants further points and when you total points exceeds a threshold, you qualify for PR. It's not enough just to have one of the needed skills, it just helps with the application.

There are two job classifications in Australia, the skilled occupation list and the critical skill occupation list. As the names imply, one represents skills which grant you points toward your application and the other lists skills that are considered in shortage to Australia and not only grant a larger number of points but can qualify you for an expedited review of your application. You can find both lists here:

http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/s...ions-lists.aspx

Click "skilled occupation list". Hairdresser is not on that list unfortunately. Included in that list is also the assessing authority; it's not sufficient to hold the title of, for example, accountant, you need to have a level of qualification equivalent to the professional registration requirements of Australia. My "skill" was as a psychologist; being registered as a psychologist in Canada wasn't enough to prove my skill, I had to have my Canadian psychological qualifications assesed by the Australian Psychological Society who reviewed my thesis and transcript and wrote a letter on my behalf to say that, yup, if I got the same degree in Australia, I'd qualify for registration. This is really important in some fields where the Australian registration standards may differ from your home country.

I really do need to point out that the application process, from start to finish, is very very expensive. Someone quoted $1400 for NZ PR? I didn't know it was that cheap, I paid $4k for my <application> but I had to pay out of pocket for my medical tests and imaging, assessing my qualifications to an Australian standard cost an additional $1000 (I think?) and, during the time when my application was being assessed, I didn't qualify for the Australian universal healthcare system or any system of social welfare (luckily I was working so it didn't matter) and I had to pay for insurance. You can avoid these fees if you stay offshore while making the application but my application took 2 years to approve (while they're assessing your application you're placed on a bridging visa which allows you to live within the country).


quote:

I don't even know what to google besides "what jobs does x country want?" which will be a clusterfuck to sort out. And then, you know, searching now and executing a plan I could easily end up having a job they don't want by the time I actually would be ready to apply. How do you even begin to plan something like that out when you're talking about limited means?

In nearly every country, it's called the "skilled occupation list". Googling "skilled occupation list canada" and "skilled occupation list england" returns results so give that a try. The SOL doesn't change as much as you may think it does; it's updated yearly I think but they add to the list more than they take away from it.

Nearly all countries use a point system like Australia does. I did some research concerning places I could apply to and it quickly became apparent that, if I qualified for one country, I qualified for several others because the criteria for skilled immigration was so similar. The lists are very similar from country to country although the assessing authority differs (qualifying as a psychologist in England has a different standard than both Australia and Canada).

Hope this helps

*edit* should point out that getting a degree in the country where you want to immigrate to grants a ton of points toward any application regardless of where you apply. A common route is to get accepted into a university program in a country, come on a student visa, graduate, and then use that graduation to both qualify for a skilled trade <and> get the points applied toward your application for training and seeking residency in the same country. You ALSO get additional points for having lived in that country for 4+ years as well and these three things combined, in most fields, is enough to get you over the line.

Serrath fucked around with this message at Aug 16, 2014 around 07:48

Boiled Water
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


Bip Roberts posted:

As Positive Optimyst said since you're not good enough for the major leagues maybe you should think about slumming it up.

It should also be stated that customer service reps and hvac repairmen aren't in that great a demand.

xutech
Mar 4, 2011

EIIST


Take a holiday to Australia for a few weeks / a month.

Travel around and meet people.

Don't move to New Zealand, it's terrible if you don't have money or relatives.

Once you've had a holiday here you'll get a really good idea about whether you want to migrate or not.

Do travel, meet people and look at things. Get on trains, swim at beaches etc.

Don't sit in one spot, eat at McDonalds the entire trip or stick to tourist traps.

It's a good middle ground between you agreeing to drastically change your life and her stifling her dreams.

Daedra
Mar 13, 2002

Titans and Vols, bitch.


xutech posted:

Take a holiday to Australia for a few weeks / a month.

Travel around and meet people.

Don't move to New Zealand, it's terrible if you don't have money or relatives.

Once you've had a holiday here you'll get a really good idea about whether you want to migrate or not.

Do travel, meet people and look at things. Get on trains, swim at beaches etc.

Don't sit in one spot, eat at McDonalds the entire trip or stick to tourist traps.

It's a good middle ground between you agreeing to drastically change your life and her stifling her dreams.
Poor people don't travel around.

Captain Mog
Jun 17, 2011


Uh, no offence, but why do you want to move away from the US so badly aside from non-political reasons? You do realize that not everywhere in a country as massive as the US is a shithole, right? The grass is always greener and all that. It's your choice as with everything else but this type of talk strikes me as reactionary as the type of conspiracy theory people who think they have to get out of the country because the government is poisoning them with fluoride and stuff.

Is it the typical liberal (yes I'm a liberal too) talk of "the US sucks because healthcare marriage equality pot ect. and Canada is paradise on Earth"? Hint: Canada is NOT paradise on Earth. neither is New Zealand or Sweden or the UK. This applies no matter what or how many amazing incredible statistics you've heard or how uber-liberal those countries are. No country is perfect or even great. Moving for political reasons in a first-world country is just loving crazy. You can't help the political situation- sorry if this hurts anyone's patriotic feelings but you really can't. You can, however, work to improve your life for the better where YOU are.

Captain Mog fucked around with this message at Aug 16, 2014 around 17:31

Shipon
Nov 7, 2005
rock lobster kekekekeke ^_^

Captain Mog posted:

Uh, no offence, but why do you want to move away from the US so badly aside from non-political reasons? You do realize that not everywhere in a country as massive as the US is a shithole, right? The grass is always greener and all that. It's your choice as with everything else but this type of talk strikes me as reactionary as the type of conspiracy theory people who think they have to get out of the country because the government is poisoning them with fluoride and stuff.

Is it the typical liberal (yes I'm a liberal too) talk of "the US sucks because healthcare marriage equality pot ect. and Canada is paradise on Earth"? Hint: Canada is NOT paradise on Earth. neither is New Zealand or Sweden or the UK. This applies no matter what or how many amazing incredible statistics you've heard or how uber-liberal those countries are. No country is perfect or even great. Moving for political reasons in a first-world country is just loving crazy. You can't help the political situation- sorry if this hurts anyone's patriotic feelings but you really can't. You can, however, work to improve your life for the better where YOU are.
Nah, the real problems with the US aren't local, they're national and moving to, say, California or New York won't change the facts. Dude doesn't like his country and wants to put his money where his mouth is - what's wrong with this? As a single individual there is zero you can do to change the circumstances here, but if you have the skills and are willing to move, you can at least make your life better off.

Boiled Water
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


Captain Mog posted:

Uh, no offence, but why do you want to move away from the US so badly aside from non-political reasons? You do realize that not everywhere in a country as massive as the US is a shithole, right? The grass is always greener and all that. It's your choice as with everything else but this type of talk strikes me as reactionary as the type of conspiracy theory people who think they have to get out of the country because the government is poisoning them with fluoride and stuff.

Is it the typical liberal (yes I'm a liberal too) talk of "the US sucks because healthcare marriage equality pot ect. and Canada is paradise on Earth"? Hint: Canada is NOT paradise on Earth. neither is New Zealand or Sweden or the UK. This applies no matter what or how many amazing incredible statistics you've heard or how uber-liberal those countries are. No country is perfect or even great. Moving for political reasons in a first-world country is just loving crazy. You can't help the political situation- sorry if this hurts anyone's patriotic feelings but you really can't. You can, however, work to improve your life for the better where YOU are.

You must concede, however, that Sweden and the UK are miles ahead of the US when it comes to things like being lower middle class.

Ferdinand the Bull
Jul 30, 2006


The only civilized place your bank accounts allow would be Japan and South Korea.

Real talk:

If you want to enjoy a privileged life (which it sounds like you do) you'll have to better yourself. Somehow get skills that are worthwhile to society at large.

Of course, I doubt you want to hear this, and I doubt you'll heed me. But if anyone wants to know the answer to this question, I just spelled it out simple and plain.

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ADBOT LOVES YOU

TheSpiritFox
Jan 4, 2009

I'm just a memory, I can't give you any new information.



Serrath posted:

I moved to Australia from Canada on a skilled migrant visa (perm residence) but I've liked it enough that I recently sought and obtained citizenship.


Australia grants PR on a points system. It's not enough to have a skill on the needed skills list, having a trade on that list grants x points, certain demographic conditions (e.g., being under 30 years of age) grant x points, having attended university in Australia or having a relative here grants further points and when you total points exceeds a threshold, you qualify for PR. It's not enough just to have one of the needed skills, it just helps with the application.

There are two job classifications in Australia, the skilled occupation list and the critical skill occupation list. As the names imply, one represents skills which grant you points toward your application and the other lists skills that are considered in shortage to Australia and not only grant a larger number of points but can qualify you for an expedited review of your application. You can find both lists here:

http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/s...ions-lists.aspx

Click "skilled occupation list". Hairdresser is not on that list unfortunately. Included in that list is also the assessing authority; it's not sufficient to hold the title of, for example, accountant, you need to have a level of qualification equivalent to the professional registration requirements of Australia. My "skill" was as a psychologist; being registered as a psychologist in Canada wasn't enough to prove my skill, I had to have my Canadian psychological qualifications assesed by the Australian Psychological Society who reviewed my thesis and transcript and wrote a letter on my behalf to say that, yup, if I got the same degree in Australia, I'd qualify for registration. This is really important in some fields where the Australian registration standards may differ from your home country.

I really do need to point out that the application process, from start to finish, is very very expensive. Someone quoted $1400 for NZ PR? I didn't know it was that cheap, I paid $4k for my <application> but I had to pay out of pocket for my medical tests and imaging, assessing my qualifications to an Australian standard cost an additional $1000 (I think?) and, during the time when my application was being assessed, I didn't qualify for the Australian universal healthcare system or any system of social welfare (luckily I was working so it didn't matter) and I had to pay for insurance. You can avoid these fees if you stay offshore while making the application but my application took 2 years to approve (while they're assessing your application you're placed on a bridging visa which allows you to live within the country).


In nearly every country, it's called the "skilled occupation list". Googling "skilled occupation list canada" and "skilled occupation list england" returns results so give that a try. The SOL doesn't change as much as you may think it does; it's updated yearly I think but they add to the list more than they take away from it.

Nearly all countries use a point system like Australia does. I did some research concerning places I could apply to and it quickly became apparent that, if I qualified for one country, I qualified for several others because the criteria for skilled immigration was so similar. The lists are very similar from country to country although the assessing authority differs (qualifying as a psychologist in England has a different standard than both Australia and Canada).

Hope this helps

*edit* should point out that getting a degree in the country where you want to immigrate to grants a ton of points toward any application regardless of where you apply. A common route is to get accepted into a university program in a country, come on a student visa, graduate, and then use that graduation to both qualify for a skilled trade <and> get the points applied toward your application for training and seeking residency in the same country. You ALSO get additional points for having lived in that country for 4+ years as well and these three things combined, in most fields, is enough to get you over the line.

This was alot of good info, thanks for taking the time.

Everyone else posted:

No one wants you

Well, duh, I'm aware that being poor, not even having a 4 year degree, and not having a trade that is valuable everywhere and difficult to come by means that countries aren't going to want us. I mean, I didn't know how much, but I came in here thinking that it was probably alot of don't want and directly asked people to confirm it. Of course I want a privileged lifestyle, doesn't everyone? Doesn't mean I expect it's possible, it would just be nice. Talking about privilege like having the money to fly back to the US multiple times a year is my way of saying "a snowballs chance in hell". There's no way I'm going to be able to better my life from poor to rich. I buy a powerball ticket every other month when I remember, but that's just to enjoy the fantasy of sudden riches for a few days.

It's not like I'm not trying to improve our situation, but there are limitations to what opportunities we can create for ourselves.

This thread isn't about that, though. I know (better now) the chances of us emigrating and that they're basically nothing. I wasn't hoping for any other answer, I was just looking for confirmation that I was right and that we're stuck here so that we can focus on making the best we can out of being stuck here and plan realistically around that. I have that confirmation now and I've actually used some of what's been pointed out in this thread to bring the argument in my house around to more reasonable ways of thinking, so I thank those of you who offered helpful information (most of you) and can report that success as I define it has basically been achieved.

I think I'll go ahead and close this now as it's served it's purpose and it's probably not going to be useful to anyone else.

:Edit:

Also thanks for not just unanimously replying to take it to E/N, while I realize that probably would have also been an appropriate place for it I needed emigration advice much more than relationship advice and we all know how that would have gone down in E/N.

TheSpiritFox fucked around with this message at Aug 16, 2014 around 20:54

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