Is this an acceptable way to decline a job offer?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Is this an acceptable way to decline a job offer?

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

It seems unfair to an employer to accept a position knowing that you're going to be actively seeking other employment. To me, that looks worse on a resume than an unexplained amount of time unemployed after graduation. That, and the whole bridge-burning thing "Yes, hi, I've worked here for 2 months, but I'm going to go work someplace else now" probably isn't going to get me a letter of recommendation.

Wait, wait... unfair to the employer? Are you serious? Do you have any idea how stacked the deck is against you, the employee, in this country? Your employer will not spare a second thought about your well-being if you don't end up working out in your new position, which thanks to at-will employment can happen for literally any reason or no reason at all. Why should you care about theirs? As for reference letters, if you're that sure you're above this position (hint: you're not), why would you want to use it as a reference anyway?

Seriously, I've seen employers hire people for a full-time job knowing they were going to fire them a few months in, regardless of their level of performance. As in, the employee unknowingly applied for a temporary position. gently caress employers.

TwoSheds fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Aug 16, 2014

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 02:27

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# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 19:17

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

Are YOU serious? How is it NOT unfair? An employer offers you a job in confidence. If you accept it, and then continue to seek employment elsewhere, that's kind of a lovely thing to do, regardless of how the deck is stacked again you. Doesn't this go against the generally-accepted idea of not burning any bridges?

And in all seriousness, why does the general consensus seem to be that I'm "not above" this position? Why would I accept a position that I could do with significantly less education? Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of spending the last few years in school?

I suppose I might have more faith in my employer.

It's not really burning bridges. First of all, you have no idea if and when your search will pay off. You're basing your assumptions on the possibility that a week or a month after taking the job, you'll get an interview and land a job that better fits your qualifications. What if it takes a year to get that far? Wouldn't you rather have a year's salary and experience under your belt than a hole in your resume?

Second of all, it's perfectly normal for people to leave low level positions for higher-level ones. That's why employers are usually wary of hiring people that are grossly overqualified on paper. Going back to our hypothetical scenario, though, you could easily justify leaving after one year if it takes that long for you to find something else. Hell, you could leave after one month as long as you handle it right, and nobody's going to hold it against you.

The consensus is that you're not above the position because that's a lovely attitude to have, and because you're ignoring the very tangible benefits of taking the job offer in favor of a shot in the dark because you don't want to inconvenience your new employers. Look, if you were talking about having a master's degree and turning down a job at McDonald's, I MIGHT be a little more able to accept your not wanting it, though I'm still of the mind that having a job is better than not having one, regardless of what you're doing or how much you're making. But this is something that's at least tangentially related to your field. You could use this opportunity to expand your network and put in your dues, which a graduate degree does not exempt you from. Yes, you'll make less money, but it's better than the no money you would otherwise be making.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 02:49

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

Then why am I supposed to be unhappy by accepting a job I don't want?

Because it's an obvious stepping stone to a job that you do want.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 03:02

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

So I only owe it to myself, but I'm not allowed to be happy with the outcome? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Sometimes in life you need to sacrifice your short-term happiness to realize your long-term goals. This would be one of those times.

EDIT: And I know plenty of people who commute two hours or more each day for considerably less than $39k, and that's in New York, one of the highest cost of living areas in the country.

TwoSheds fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Aug 16, 2014

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 03:09

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

You go work there then. There might be an opening next week.

For $39k? In a heartbeat.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 03:53

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

I haven't turned it down yet; I'm still assessing the trade off between income and doing what I really want to do. In another part of this forum, someone would say "Do what makes you happy" (hopefully with less childish namecalling). But I came here for advice.

And for whatever it's worth, my parents have paid minimally for my education. That is, they didn't pay my tuition, and I didn't get a month check from anyone to pay my rent.

My parents would want me to be happy. Would you not want that for you kids?

Your parents also want themselves to be happy, and their idea of happiness may not include supporting their adult child, who is turning down lucrative offers of employment.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 04:31

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

I guess it's a good thing you're not one of my parents, right?

For whatever it's worth, I would not be leaching off of my parents. I'd be working and supporting their small business, which happens to be well known and well respected in the community in which it resides. Happens to be something I enjoy too, which is nice.

So please quit acting like I'm some sort of freeloader. You know absolutely nothing about me, my family, and my past.

It doesn't help that you're obfuscating things. You pretty heavily implied that you'd be unemployed if you moved back home.

quote:

The alternative is living with my parents. I'm okay with that for now, on the assumption that I can't be unemployed forever. I've had two interviews offered to me since I received the employment offer.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 04:45

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

I would consider working for my parents to be the equivalent of being unemployed. My parents don't pay themselves; I wouldn't expect them to pay me. And they would welcome me into their home because that's what a family should do. For that, I am thankful.

And since working for them offers zero career benefit (someone will bold quote me on this, surely) I realize the obvious downside, which is why I'm here for the advice. This forum feels that career should stand above all else -- as I expect. My request for advice elsewhere has yielded different results.

It's a tough choice.

So it's a choice between working for nothing and being beholden to your parents and supporting yourself while making a bit less than others in your field have been known to make? Doesn't seem like that hard of a choice to me.

EDIT: Thought your parents lived in the same area as the new job.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 05:00

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

Fair enough. However, I think it's also fair to have reasonable expectations. I won't a Ferrari. Hell, I don't even want a car.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that I will find a job that suits my skills/interests/etc and isn't in a place where I feel trapped.

For what it's worth, I once said "I want to do this thing where money isn't as much of a factor as you might think" and it was suggested that I go to graduate school. Maybe people give lovely advice. Hindsight is 20/20.

You're not ever going to be happy if you keep trying to force reality to give you exactly what you want with no compromise on your part. Life just doesn't work that way.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 05:05

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

Right, I agree wholeheartedly. From my standpoint, there seems to be a little more compromise than I may be willing to accept.

I evaluate a) pay b) a place where I have friends or feel confident I'll meet new ones c) strong correlation with my interests.

Do you think that shooting for a positive outcome on two of those is reasonable?

The thing is that all three of those things are workable and are largely dependent on your performance. Your pay may not be at the top of the curve, but people can and do get raises for good performance after awhile, even after they reach the top of the starting salary cap. Likewise, this job may not be relevant to your interests, but it may lead to other opportunities that are, either with a different employer or with the same one. Hell, you may find that your interests change.

The friends thing is pretty simple, honestly. Be friends with your coworkers. You'll be doing the same thing, so there's your common ground right there, and you probably have more in common than you might think. After you've been there a week or two, ask a couple of them out for drinks later, or whatever you guys do down there.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 05:18

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

I do see your side. What I want is for someone to see my side. I value being happy. I would like to live in a place where I don't feel trapped and alone. I feel that is perfectly fair.

This thread says "gently caress being happy for now, just go work there because you need a career and that's the most important thing". That's difficult for me to swallow given how I've lived my life to this point.

Your feelings are valid, but the thing you have to remember is that the unhappiness in this situation will be temporary. You can't expect to be happy for your entire life and never encounter hardship. It may happen, as in this case, that you will have to bring hardship upon yourself in order to achieve happiness in the future. And while you could bypass this hardship to be comfortable and safe at home, you might potentially do serious harm to your career, and you would miss out on a great chance to build character and raise your self-esteem by doing something you didn't think you were capable of.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 06:02

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

Perhaps the resources of this forum will aid me in landing one of the positions.

Look, I don't want to beat a dead horse, and what's done is done, but our efforts since you posted this topic have been entirely focused on trying to get you NOT to do the mindblowingly stupid thing that you just did. If that many people unanimously agree that you should do one thing, and you do the opposite thing, what makes you think you'll listen to good advice moving forward?

My advice would be to try to get the job back. Email them again, chalk your previous resignation up to pre-job jitters or something.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2014 04:14

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

Serious post: if someone did that to you, what would you do?

I feel like if someone did that to me, I'd tell them to shove off.

I don't know what I'd do. Fortunately, I've never been in that position before. Worst-case scenario, you never hear back from them again. I say that's the worst-case scenario because the REAL worst-case scenario (they blackball you from future work in your industry) is no more likely to occur if you try to take it back than if you don't.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2014 04:24

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

This goes against some of the logic in this thread.

Suppose I work there, and get another offer in a month, thus bailing on Doublewide City. Isn't this likely to induce the same effect?

IF they take you back, and IF you do get an offer in a month, then yes, that MAY happen (though it probably wouldn't have had you just accepted and showed up on Monday), but in that hypothetical scenario you'd have a new guaranteed position, and hopefully a few years to build contacts and a good rep.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2014 04:36

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

That wasn't quite what I was asking; it's irrelevant.

No, it's not intrinsically irrelevant. You're making it irrelevant by refusing to act. There's a difference.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2014 04:42

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

moana posted:

Cordial greetings.

You can call me pedantic if you want, but this right here is where he lost me. I expect you must get a lot of "Salutations!" or equally nerdy openers.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2014 03:11

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# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 19:17

TwoSheds: Sep 12, 2007; Bringer of sugary treats!

GILF Hunter posted:

The girl broke up with me about a year later. I had planned to ask said girl to marry me in the coming months; the depression put me in a downward spiral � I started drinking heavily (and I had never even touched alcohol before I was 21), and it ultimately cumulated with me trying to commit suicide at age 23 -- and failing. If you've never experienced depression or regularly laugh at people that suffer from it, that will probably influence your opinion of me. That's fine.

No, see, that's NOT fine at all. You shouldn't be enabling and allowing people to judge you based on your illness. I'm also going to go ahead and broadly make the assumption that nobody that's posted here so far is a total douchebag that would look down on someone for being depressed and/or find that sort of thing funny.

I suggest that you may not be as far along with your depression as you believe. I assume you've been through treatment for your condition, but if not I highly recommend doing so. Depression and anxiety (not saying you are necessarily anxious as well, but they're frequently comorbid) are horrible lovely feelings, but they can be overcome, either through therapy, meds, or preferably both.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2014 03:42

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Is this an acceptable way to decline a job offer?