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eigenstate posted:So is this the leIG and not the pak? What's the point of this? Isn't the leIG a mobile infantry close-support gun more useful in an attack, not defense? It's the leIG 75mm infantry gun. It's not ideal for our purposes, but I think we'll be able to use it effectively. We can employ it for direct fire against infantry. As long as it's in radio contact, we can also use it for indirect fire as well. In a pinch, we can also use it as a light AT gun, since it has 4 HEAT shells. Dirt Worshipper posted:1 Heavy AT Platoon You'll get the foxholes you need. Probably 2-3 total.
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Aug 18, 2014 21:18
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Bacarruda posted:It's the leIG 75mm infantry gun. Interesting. I presumed it was off map support. Time to read up on employment of infantry guns.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:05
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Tehkeen is available to fill the missing billet. I think it could be invaluble to have single truck available. just because we are defending, doesn't mean we won't need to rapidly move troops when our tanks might be engaged. Give it to the AT guy and he can take care of liasing with the infantry. (Of course, a very open map would make it useless, but surely grey wouldn't do that to us... would he?) will AT mines trigger against infantry? if they do, we should replace AP with AT. I like your choice of infantry a lot. sounds much more suitable to the figthing we'll need to do. Our tanks will certainly be effective, would a tiger I be a better use of points than a king tiger? I'm not so familiar with tanks because they vary more depending on the game you are playing. If we got the cheaper tank we might be able to get more AT, arty or recon, all of which could be very valuble.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:10
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There's a nice super grognardy blog that uses CM for examples of tactics and whatnot here, in anyone is interested. It has some great AARs to look at. Also, requesting an invite to that Roll20 thing, pretty please.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:16
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Jaguars! posted:I think it could be invaluble to have single truck available. just because we are defending, doesn't mean we won't need to rapidly move troops when our tanks might be engaged. Give it to the AT guy and he can take care of liasing with the infantry. (Of course, a very open map would make it useless, but surely grey wouldn't do that to us... would he?) We could buy a truck (it's 39 points), but I'm not sure the ability to shuffle a single squad of infantry around is gonna be that much value-added. Jaguars! posted:Our tanks will certainly be effective, would a tiger I be a better use of points than a king tiger? I'm not so familiar with tanks because they vary more depending on the game you are playing. If we got the cheaper tank we might be able to get more AT, arty or recon, all of which could be very valuble. I just did some bean counting. With a little shuffling of points, we can replace one of the Panthers with a Tiger I. I fully realize that Tigers aren't invulnerable, but I really like the idea of adding another 88mm to our lineup. So team, should we keep the Panther? Or should we replace it with a Tiger I? Or should we do something else entirely? Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 22:36
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Fair enough on the truck. Just depends what we sacrifice to get the tiger, but sounds like a good idea.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:40
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Jaguars! posted:Just depends what we sacrifice to get the tiger, but sounds like a good idea. Nothing, actually. I just had to slightly downgrade the experience rankings on a few units (for those interested, I had the King Tiger's crew set at "Crack," which I have now adjusted to "Veteran"). -- e: for those interested, here's the latest OOB. 1 Battalion (Panzergrenadier) -CO: Bacarruda -XO: Jaguars! 1 Company (Panzergrenadier): sniper4625 -1 Platoon: Kangra -2 Platoon: the JJ -3 Platoon: JcDent -4 Platoon (Heavy): FellFire --1 HMG Section (2x MG42s): Mans --2 HMG Section (2x MG42s): MrMenshevik --Mortar Section (2x 81mm mortars): Jeoh 2 Company (Panzergrenadier): Kenzie -1 Platoon: Valiantman -2 Platoon: Dark_Swordmaster -3 Platoon: eigenstate -4 Platoon (Heavy): markus_cz --1 HMG Section (2x MG42s): Velius --2 HMG Section (2x MG42s): vuk83 --Mortar Section (2x 81mm mortars): Tehkeen 4 Company (Heavy) Dralun -Light Infantry Gun Platoon, 75mm: Dralun 1 Recon Platoon: HerpicleOmnicron5 -2x Sniper Teams: HerpicleOmnicron5 -2x Sniper Teams: Affi 1 Armored Platoon: -King Tiger VIB: gradenko_2000 -Tiger VIE (mid): Soup_Inspector -Panther VA (mid): anilEhated -Panther VA (mid): Arbite -Panther VA (mid): Chunky Monkey 1 Heavy AT Platoon: Dirt Worshipper -2x Pak 43 88mm Artillery: -Mortar Section (Heavy), 120mm mortars off-map Fortifications: -Target Reference Point x5 -Foxholes x10 -Foxholes x10 -Foxholes x5 -Antitank mines x6 -Antipersonnel mines x5 Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 22:49
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Another Tiger would be pretty nice. What are the experience ratings of our infantry companies? I was wondering if we could use some kind of half-track infantry platoon to zip around back and forth, since we're panzergrenadiers after all, but the map might not be big enough to justify that.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:56
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Honestly, considering we're ostensibly defending our own territory, (and as a minor handicap), it'd make some sense for us to know the map at this stage. Up to Grey, of course.
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Aug 18, 2014 22:59
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We could at least know how big it is, and the general outline of the terrain. Is it open? Forested? Town? Village?
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Aug 18, 2014 23:02
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Kenzie posted:Another Tiger would be pretty nice. What are the experience ratings of our infantry companies? I think the cost of motorizing is probably too great. When I suggested a truck I was thinking of the huge soviet studebaker that I commanded last time. Dammit, why do we keep producing boxtanks instead of bigger trucks?
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Aug 18, 2014 23:02
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Kenzie posted:Another Tiger would be pretty nice. What are the experience ratings of our infantry companies? All infantry are "Regular." I did spent 6 points upping the experience levels of the snipers to "Elite." It won't make them killing machines, but it'll make them better at spotting and slightly more accurate shooters.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:07
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Looks like I got the boot even though my platoon emerged pretty unscathed.  If there's an open slot I'll take it but I'm happy to step aside for new people.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:13
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the JJ posted:Looks like I got the boot even though my platoon emerged pretty unscathed. I've moved you into 1 Company's 2 Platoon. And with that: the German team is full! e: VVVV sniper is right, though. If you're interested in playing the Germans, stick around in this thread once the game starts. Spots will open up. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 23:16
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Anyone who did not get a position, please stick around! These threads always have attrition, slots will open up.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:22
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Jaguars! posted:will AT mines trigger against infantry? if they do, we should replace AP with AT. No, but AP mines can be cleared by tanks driving over them. You can also buy "mixed" minefields, i.e. both AP and AT in one square. I would like to see some mines used. Bacarruda posted:It's not ideal for our purposes, but I think we'll be able to use it effectively. We can employ it for direct fire against infantry. As long as it's in radio contact, we can also use it for indirect fire as well. In a pinch, we can also use it as a light AT gun, since it has 4 HEAT shells. Have you considered the Flak 38 instead, if the enemy brings air support? How does air support even work in this game? Edit: Nay to trucks. Horns of Hattin fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 23:27
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Jaguars! posted:I think the cost of motorizing is probably too great. When I suggested a truck I was thinking of the huge soviet studebaker that I commanded last time. Dammit, why do we keep producing boxtanks instead of bigger trucks? Yeah, I was thinking of just one mobile reserve platoon, but even that might be too much. Half-tracks have to be handled so carefully in this game. They'll be knocked out if you so much as sneeze on them, and their gunners get sniped out of their positions so easily. They are even less effective in Red Thunder because of Soviet AT rifles.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:29
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eigenstate posted:Have you considered the Flak 38 instead, if the enemy brings air support? How does air support even work in this game? Aircraft roam around on their own initiative, without input from the player. When playing the Western armies you can call them in with FO teams, but I think they may have removed that feature in Red Thunder. They will show up at some random point in the battle. You can't see them, but you will definitely see their impact. You will first hear them fly overhead in a spotting run, and then they will swoop in a bit later and bomb the gently caress out of something. They are often wildly inaccurate, and will sometimes bomb your own troops. If they do manage to hit something, they can be devastating though. They will usually drop a couple of bombs or shoot rockets at something, then zoom around strafing things with machineguns for a few minutes, then leave.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:38
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Bacarruda posted:-Tiger VIE (mid): Soup_Inspector It's cool getting one of the big guns, but what's the practical upshot for me (aside from moving more slowly, getting extra armour and having a bigger main gun)? 
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Aug 18, 2014 23:40
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eigenstate posted:No, but AP mines can be cleared by tanks driving over them. You can also buy "mixed" minefields, i.e. both AP and AT in one square. I would like to see some mines used. I'm not enamored with mines (you have to guess exactly where the enemy is going to be, and that's hard, especially on a big map). I'm trying to figure out exactly how we're going to use mines. I think we have four options. One, block obvious chokepoints like bridges. Two, mine defilades and dead ground they might use to flank us. Three, use tank, artillery and AT fire to drive them onto our mines (or vice versa). Four, use them to deny the Soviet access to overwatch positions. eigenstate posted:Have you considered the Flak 38 instead, if the enemy brings air support? How does air support even work in this game? I'm not too worried about Soviet air support. And if they do bring any, I'm not sure two Flak 38s are going to do much good. Light flak can tear up infantry in direct fire mode, though. Soup Inspector posted:It's cool getting one of the big guns, but what's the practical upshot for me (aside from moving more slowly, getting extra armour and having a bigger main gun)? The 88mm gun the only thing that can reliably kill Soviet heavy armor, so the more of them that we have, the better. If you'd prefer to have a Panther, let me know and you can get your old ride back.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:06
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Bacarruda posted:If you'd prefer to have a Panther, let me know and you can get your old ride back. No, I'm perfectly fine with this development. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't going to try doing something that works in a Panther but doesn't work in a Tiger and end up tossing away a valuable asset. That and I like the idea of murdering Soviet heavy armour. 
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Aug 19, 2014 00:08
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Just keep in mind this isn't an RTS, if you can see the enemy you should be still and shooting to kill, unless you are outflanked etc. Mainly we should be trying to engage Russian armor at the greatest distance possible with our guns to take advantage of our superior optics. Right?
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Aug 19, 2014 00:14
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Soup Inspector posted:No, I'm perfectly fine with this development. Panthers have speed and excellent front armor, however, it's paper thin on sides and back. Basically a cold war tank! Tiger is better armored all around, but slower. ...I think! Ed: well, not too much of an issue, as I checked the online available manual. Everyone who hasn't done it, should do it, too. It's quite enlightening (Panzerfausts have an effective range of 30m, which is 10m further than "get infantry in grenade range and hope for the best). I also think we're gonna get Katusha'd, but that's just being paranoid at Soviets trying to pull something after the last thread. JcDent fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 00:51
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Everything looks good to me so far. I think we may have to worry about a slow, methodical advance. If I were the Soviets, I would be expecting traps and looking for unlikely places to strike. Just so I'm clear, does 4 Platoon include the Heavy Machine Gun teams? What exactly am I in charge of? Any advice on placement would also be welcome.
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Aug 19, 2014 01:30
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Dirt Worshipper posted:Mainly we should be trying to engage Russian armor at the greatest distance possible with our guns to take advantage of our superior optics. Right? I'd say this applies especially with the 88s. They always seemed kind of tricky to use for me. They are so huge and easy for the enemy to spot, and they rotate very slowly. It's easy to overwhelm an 88 position with large numbers of vehicles because it can't rotate the gun fast enough to deal with them all. Putting them as far back as possible is a good idea, and in an area as densely wooded as possible (unless there's some kind of good keyhole position or something). I've had infantry spot enemy 88s from pretty far away, so they need to be well hidden. Once they are spotted they will draw loads of indirect fire, and putting them in woods might make them more vulnerable to the tree-bursting shells though.
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Aug 19, 2014 02:10
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Alright, now that we've got our OOB finalized and everyone has a command, let's do some quick administrative things. At some point before the round starts, everyone should look at these resources: 1. Play the demo. It's a good way to a get a feel for the mechanics of Combat Mission 2. Read the manual. I don't expect everyone to read the whole thing, but you should familiarize yourself with the relevant parts. For example, tankers should read up on their tanks, Russian tanks, and tactics/mechanics relevant to armored warfare. 3. Read the "Tactical Skills" series on the Battle Drill blog. The series starts here and has about ten short parts. Very useful tactical advice. 4. If you'd rather watch a video than read, this series is outstanding. It was filmed using Command Mission: Battle for Normandy, but the basic principles it covers are universal. 5. Read the Soviet and/or German sides of this battle. It'll give you a good feel for how Germans defend and Russians attack. 6. If you want more AARs, this two-parter is a decent read. 7. Armored officers should read Panzer Vorwärts!. It's a WWII-era collection of 30 maxims for Panzer officers. They'll be useful to keep in mind when you're driving your big cats.
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Aug 19, 2014 02:25
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I'm having a hard time not reading that as 'Panzerwärts', School of witchcraft and armored combat.
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Aug 19, 2014 03:47
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Panzer Vor gentlemen, Panzer Vor.
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Aug 19, 2014 04:23
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Kenzie posted:I'd say this applies especially with the 88s. They always seemed kind of tricky to use for me. They are so huge and easy for the enemy to spot, and they rotate very slowly. It's easy to overwhelm an 88 position with large numbers of vehicles because it can't rotate the gun fast enough to deal with them all. To be clear, this is the particular 88 we'll be using, not the earlier and more iconic converted AA gun.  e: look at the size of my gun(s) ya'll.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:23
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Did Grey make the order spreadsheet last time? If not, I'll throw one together when I get home and add a link to the first page. OOB is finalized, yeah? (Just to confirm)
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Aug 19, 2014 05:24
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Dirt Worshipper posted:To be clear, this is the particular 88 we'll be using, not the earlier and more iconic converted AA gun. The latest OOB has PaK 43s, not PaK 43/41s (pictured). Same gun, just on a fixed mount with 360 degree traverse.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:45
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  Here is the map for battle 2! With this the main thread is now closed! (Thanks sniper for the grid template.)
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Aug 19, 2014 05:51
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Bacarruda posted:The latest OOB has PaK 43s, not PaK 43/41s (pictured). Same gun, just on a fixed mount with 360 degree traverse. Ah I didnt realise, ok. E:  The actual gun, not a huge height difference, for those interested
Dirt Worshipper fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 05:55
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Wowed, thats a big map. Can someone get it into Roll 20? Might have to be me or Jag, will try.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:57
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EDIT: There are fords on the southern side of the map, so that's something to keep in mind. If I were the Reds I'd be thinking that's a way across that won't get tangled up in all the town fighting. Is it possible at all to get a topographical view? If there's some high ground on the west side of the river I'm kind of salivating over the potential for knocking out Soviet tanks in a turkey shoot as they try to cross. sniper4625 posted:Did Grey make the order spreadsheet last time? If not, I'll throw one together when I get home and add a link to the first page. We should definitely have an orders spreadsheet on top of the roll20 planning, I agree. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 06:01
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Can we get a height map?
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Aug 19, 2014 06:06
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I can't get Roll20 to play nice with the iPad, so I'll get to work on an orders spreadsheet.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:07
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Does this work? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JNykFLLdGbwUxXnqmyM5zEax-TS_7WRLDxH0gz8uMTQ/edit
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Aug 19, 2014 06:28
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uPen posted:It's really rather simple. Stealing this from the Soviet Thread - As I was dumb and should have supplied something like this.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:32
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sniper4625 posted:Does this work? That works, I see it.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:34
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