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Signed up as a company commander, reporting in.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:51
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 10:04 |
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Requesting a roll20 invite. I have PMs (grenade icons represent)
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Aug 18, 2014 12:18
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Any idea on the map yet? I'm reading German Field Fortifications 1939-1945 to try and get some idea of how this stuff should work IRL, and it's describing a 3-layer defense that's at least 6 km deep.
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Aug 18, 2014 13:39
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I'm not on the line-up, but that's okay. I'll just stay out of all other threads since I'm already committed to this one and will try to provide advice and input.vuk83 posted:Maybe swap some heavy mg42 sections w/81mm mortars? And the at guns are gonna get plastered as soon as they open up. Maybe swap w some marders? AT guns can work if they're placed behind forward positions, along obvious/expected approaches for armor. They're only easy targets if they're continually spotted, but they won't be if they blow up any tanks that come into view before they're seen and before Soviet infantry arrives.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:29
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Bacarruda, I would recommend investing in mines if we can still afford it and if the map offers some obvious chokepoints to channel the Soviets into.Affi posted:Then a deep defensive line would be preferable, no? If they advance too far, too fast then we flank the everloving poo poo out of them. Yes, going deep is preferable. German defensive doctrine was based on the concept of elastic defense. You have an advance force ahead of the main line of resistance that will detect the direction (and ideally main point) of advance, fire upon them to force them to deploy into battle line early to slow them down and to act as artillery spotters; then you have a main battle line along a terrain feature that covers most avenues of approach, and finally a mobile reserve that will react to any penetrations or to serve as a counter-attacking force to a pinned advance. Deployment was usually in the form of "two platoons forward, one back" to maintain flexibility. Both seems to be in keeping with the COs plans.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:42
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Wow, Konigstigers! I'll do my bestBacarruda posted:But I'll lay out my doctrinal thoughts at this point. This battle will follow five phases. Sounds good! My only comment would be that Herp's recon platoon is expected to withdraw in good order after they've done their spotting and delaying job, if that wasn't obvious. This is ideally done under cover of artillery fire, but I think we're stretched a bit thin there (can't be helped) so might have to wing it. Soup Inspector posted:1. At the risk of sounding like I sprang out of a Cold War field manual, it's important to remember fire and manoeuvre. Our superiority in firepower and agility relative to infantry should be exploited. We shouldn't be remaining nailed in one place (like I started to be near the end of the previous battle on the railway), but nor should we manoeuvre for the sake of manoeuvre (fancy manoeuvres never killed anyone by themselves). Since we're on the defensive, I imagine that we are most effective if we ambush enemy forces, hit them hard, and then melt away before they can bring an effective response to bear. This is actually really correct and why there's going to be an advance force (and 1 platoon in reserve per company if desired). Recon dudes tell us where the point of the main Soviet effort will be (and mines and natural terrain will hopefully channel them into predictable paths) so that our tanks and reserve platoons can maneuver to flanking positions.
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Aug 18, 2014 18:28
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EDIT: There are fords on the southern side of the map, so that's something to keep in mind. If I were the Reds I'd be thinking that's a way across that won't get tangled up in all the town fighting. Is it possible at all to get a topographical view? If there's some high ground on the west side of the river I'm kind of salivating over the potential for knocking out Soviet tanks in a turkey shoot as they try to cross. sniper4625 posted:Did Grey make the order spreadsheet last time? If not, I'll throw one together when I get home and add a link to the first page. We should definitely have an orders spreadsheet on top of the roll20 planning, I agree. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 06:01
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sniper4625 posted:Does this work? That works, I see it.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:34
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I'm partial towards Option 3: Herp's Recon Platoon with the Mortar section on the West bank holding the eastern edge of the town around M8-N8, and then one of the PzG Companies (with one of their HMGs sent to Herp if possible?) holding the town proper around J6-K7. Herp should have good eyes-on if the Soviets try hard for the Southern fords, otherwise they're going to get tangled up rooting infantry out of the town. I agree with deploying armor on the East bank, maybe somewhere in the area C7-E12. I think from there they should be able to peep any Reds that make it across.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:56
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TehKeen posted:Is Grey's video comepletely black after the initial logo for anyone else? It's black for a long while but you get a visual about 30 seconds in
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Aug 19, 2014 07:44
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The Eastern town is an objective for them, so they will have to take it, which means we don't really need dedicated scouts as long as we fight for it (assuming we do decide to, which I recommend). If we do stuff like having the Recce platoon shoot tank riders and whatnot that might make them cautious enough to bog them down taking the East bank. I do think though that the tanks should start on the West bank already and just move north-to-south to react to whichever crossing is getting more activity.
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Aug 19, 2014 11:38
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markus_cz posted:IIRC, tanks cannot go through woods, and there are only a couple of places where they can cross the wooded areas in the east. I'd place the mines here, not on the bridges. Mines are primarily meant to scare the opponent and slow him down, not necessarily cause casualties. If they encounter mines right away, they'd become pretty paranoid and will advance only slowly. I agree with the mines idea - we can use them to channel the Reds into a position we want them to go through, rather than directly through somewhere they will pass through (the bridges), and the threat of the mines would scare them into advancing slowly. Ideally they'll spend so much time clearing out Studienka that they'll have to cross the river in a rush - but that means the big cats can take out the blind armor one by one as they cross the open marsh with no one to recon for them.
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Aug 19, 2014 15:52
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I'd like to have the Tiger I pulled back to the East bank, at D8, or at least have it swap with the Panther at L6 if you insist on having it on the West bank. I'm going to have to withdraw the cats eventually, and so I'd rather the faster Panthers be the ones the farthest out.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:07
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I would've figured Herp's scouts would be where 1 Company is, and only one Company would be holding Studienka with the other defending the western bank, but otherwise I absolutely agree that we should defend Studienka in force. No sense handing them over half the map and half their objectives even if it lets us know where they're going. What's our time limit on planning, by the way?
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Aug 19, 2014 18:00
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Fell Fire posted:While I like the idea of deploying forward to disrupt their advance and buy time, what does time actually gain us? I agree with Dralun that deploying further west is to our advantage. They only have 1.5 hours to work with - rooting an entrenched enemy out of a town takes time, making an opposed crossing even more so and then they still have a second town to root us out of if they get that far. We want to make a fight out of Studienka because shooting tank riders off their T-34s is going to be costly for them and picking off their tanks as they cross the bridges/fjords one by one only works if they can't organize for it EDIT: What is up with all the people getting IDIOT BAD POST avs? It's making things confusing
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Aug 19, 2014 19:00
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:No, it just forces us to counterattack. If we can nail the enemy as they cross for West Town, cut them off from the rest of their force and then surround them we can wipe out a majority of the enemy force in exchange for minimal losses, allowing for the weakened hostile force to be attacked. Just because we are defending doesn't mean we can't shift onto the offense. We don't have the room nor the cover to have a unit physically interpose themselves between the bridge/river and a Soviet penetration after they've penetrated. Elastic defense does support the idea of a counter-attack, done by the reserve unit of a "2 forward, 1 back" lay-out, but at this scale you're talking about either head-on or enfilading fire, as they cross the bridges, before they get a chance to reorganize. Kenzie posted:I think we can afford to spread out a lot of our infantry until we know what's going on, but what are we doing with our tanks? We may be taken by surprise by the sheer number of tanks the enemy has. They're attacking so they should have far more points to spend. We could consider concentrating all of our armor together in one spot. If we have all of our tanks concentrating their fire alongside our 88s, they can put forth a LOT of firepower. What I've read about this map heavily suggests using the superior range of Panthers/Tigers by posting them on the Western bank so they can dominate any Soviet armor making crossings, particularly if they try a flanking move over the Southern fjords, and that's how I plan to do my deployment assuming we do take Option 3 and put up a fight for Studienka.
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Aug 19, 2014 20:13
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I am in favor of option Bruno
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Aug 20, 2014 02:44
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What's our deadline? I'm pretty busy tomorrow and might not be able to really sit down and chew over this until 11:00 AM GMT, but I'll make time if I have to. EDIT: Also, reminder that we do have an orders spreadsheet.
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Aug 20, 2014 20:27
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Okay, I've read through the last 2 pages, and I'm okay with going with Emil. Specifically: One Panther apiece at points Anna, Gregory and then either Vasily or Masha, with an eye for the Vasily/Masha Panther to be able to switch to Anna or Gregory if necessary. Inside tree lines, of course. Unless Bacarruda orders me otherwise or unless there are no good firing positions, I must insist on placing both Tigers in an overlook position along West Town. I consider it extremely likely that we're going to see a large commitment to the southern fords at some point in the battle, and even with 2 Panthers at Gregory I'd still rather have the Tigers able to do their long-range work. Additional info needed: * What are the LOS opportunities like at Vasily, Masha and Anna+Boris? * What are the LOS opportunities like at West Town? Thanks a lot by the way to Kenzie for his help with this so far. If we're still here after the 30th I promise to pick up Red Thunder so I'm not working blind so much. Some related reading, if it helps at all:   
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Aug 21, 2014 10:44
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vuk83 posted:Whats the point of having tanks in forests. We need a plan to cover both anna and gregory in force. And to quickly adjust to a northern or southern concentration. The russians are gonna have a lot of goddamn tanks and we need to keep our own tanks concentrated or be defeated in detail. I actually think it better to have both tigers on the east bank and a panther on the west in reserve. The superior armour of the tigers is an asser in a knife fight. I'm going with the rough outlines of our CO's plan, using points he designated for tank placement, coupled with LOS and forest-cover details from Kenzie. My reasons for putting the Tigers on the West bank are their slower speeds than the Panthers, their inability to make a crossing over the bridges in the event of a withdrawal and their better long-range guns. If the expected threat is that Soviet armor will swarm over our tanks and be able to close-in, then armor isn't going to be a deciding factor either way once the range is reduced to a point where any shot is still going to penetrate. I agree that it's likely that the Soviets might have enough tanks to overwhelm tanks on the East bank, but the solution to that problem is not have the tanks on the East bank in the first place, but that circles back to not being within the plan being put forward by our CO (which is not to say that I'm challenging the plan be thrown out either, only that I'm working within its confines).
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Aug 21, 2014 11:20
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Not AWOL, but I admit I'm finding it difficult to give placement orders for the tanks when I don't have access to the game. Of course I want them where there's good cover and they have good lines of sight, but how precise do you want me to be? Is it enough to say: King Tiger VIB (gradenko_2000) to be placed in E10, facing East-Southeast, intent is to watch over attacks from Route Gregory Tiger VIE (Soup_Inspector) to be placed in M9, facing South, intent is to watch over attacks from Route Gregory and Masha Panther VA (anilEhated) to be placed in O8, facing Northeast, intent is to watch over attacks from Route Boris or Anna. I'm giving anilEhated prerogative to change placement to Point Anna+Boris or Point Anna as necessary, otherwise decision to move elsewhere to provide better coverage will depend on development of situation after the initial turn Panther VA (Arbite) to be placed in O8/O9, facing East, intent is to watch over attacks from Route Boris or Route Vasily Panther VA (Chunky Monkey) to be placed in O9, facing Southeast, intent is to watch over attacks from Route Masha or Route Vasily Arbite and Chunky Monkey's Panthers will similarly be obliged to move out to relocate within East Town to cover Route Anna if the initial turn reveals a major push along that route Specifics: Dralun posted:With armor, came up with this, trying to stay inline with Gradenko_2000's intent. Only doing this so our tanks don't end up in odd spots if specific orders don't get in in time. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 10:09
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Soup Inspector posted:
CO insists we have 4 tanks east of the river. I'm worried about the retreat too, but I figure you'll be reasonably well positioned for a withdrawal, but we'll just have to (literally) cross that bridge when we get there. With any luck, a heavy commitment to the East bank means we might not even need to do a full crossing anyway.
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Aug 23, 2014 13:27
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Soup Inspector posted:Okay, fair enough. I'll do my best! I think you'll have to reposition if it feels like the Soviets are going to overrun our Panthers and Kenzie's Kompany, or even just after the first 3 minute turn at the worst case.
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Aug 23, 2014 14:25
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I have edited my orders post to reflect feedback over the previous day.
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Aug 25, 2014 01:15
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Thank you, Dralun, for the legwork. I've updated my orders post again. I'm sorry I couldn't be more specific, but I'll try to take a more proactive hand once things get rolling.
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Aug 25, 2014 10:23
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Tank commanders: I'm crap at Photoshop, so if anyone wants to come up with some platoon insignia and name us The Fightin' Toiletlords or something, go ahead.
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Aug 25, 2014 13:05
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I'm only going to be able to phone post until Sep 1, so if someone from the platoon could come up with provisional orders. I'll try to review the video when I can.
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Aug 30, 2014 10:53
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 anilEhilated to re-deploy to the ridge near downtown, map coordinates around AO-18. Move inside the town to try and maintain cover from air attack. This is to cover Route Anna. EDIT: I'm leaving it up to individual tank commanders to plot specific routes/facings. A LOS check from AO-18's vicinity would be appreciated as well. Someone please tell me if this is being too conservative. I'm also thinking of Point 176 or Point 174, but I think that might be too out in the open. Everyone else to hold position. Chunky Monkey and Arbite are already in place to defend Route Masha and Vasily, and I don't want to move Soup Inspector until we know more about a possible move towards Route Gregory. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 05:42
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Bacarruda posted:Shoot, I missed gradenko's previous orders sending you to AO-18. It accomplishes what I wanted you to do (cover ANNA and be available as a reserve as needed). Hey I'm just glad we're on the same page, tactically.
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Sep 3, 2014 15:49
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Arbite posted:Guys, I'm not seeing why anyone needs to move anywhere, with the possible exception of the guns that were firing. I doubt they can see much but them, and any other movement would just betray our positions while they're out of effective range. While I acknowledge that I did myself order some movement this turn, I'm inclined to agree with you. We've hardly seen anyone yet.
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Sep 4, 2014 18:20
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Can I request for some potential LOS spots for the King Tiger to cover northern approaches from the West Bank (not necessarily West Town per se)?
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Sep 6, 2014 15:08
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I put in a request for LOS shots for the King Tiger upthread, but I didn't get a response back. I concur with your provisional orders, Baccaruda. I also saw Kenzie's recommendation but that seems a bit too disengaged with the rest of the force to be safe. Phoneposting right now but I'll throw up an orders post when I can.
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Sep 8, 2014 05:43
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Bacarruda posted:gradenko, feel free to override these. I'm 90% sure that who you labeled as Chunky Monkey is actually anilEhated, who I ordered into that northeast-facing position the previous turn. Do you want two tanks covering Route Anna?
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Sep 8, 2014 14:23
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Arbite, move through the inside of the town to the area AM-17. Soup Inspector, move to the intersection of AH/AI-17/18. Move quickly. Face northeast. Chunky Monkey, move to AS-25 (spot formerly occupied by Arbite). Face northeast. This will put three tanks in position to cover Route Anna and Boris, and leave Chunky Monkey to covert Route Vasily and shift to Masha if required. Refer to our Roll20 map for specifics. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 06:32
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Soup Inspector posted:Since I have the short term memory of a gnat, can someone direct me to the image that has all the potential Soviet attack routes mapped out on it? I know Anna is a northern attack plan, but some of the others are leaving me scratching my head and I want to have potential movements prepared in my mind ahead of time. The roll20 map has it. https://app.roll20.net/join/495227/lpL1zg
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Sep 9, 2014 18:21
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I've updated my orders post to reflect a redeployment to the northeast to cover Route Anna. I've also updated our Google Docs with the link to the post. Chunky Monkey and Soup Inspector, please issue orders as necessary. I am still waiting on LOS spots for the Tiger on the west bank.
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Sep 10, 2014 17:46
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Dralun posted:Is there a specific area, pin point you are concerned about? Not really, I suppose it'll just be a facing change then. Thanks.
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Sep 10, 2014 19:40
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Arbite, move to AP-21. Be careful. Face northeast. You'll be our reserve to counter movement through Route 66, but I picked a spot where should be out of view from down the road until we're good and ready to reveal you. anilEhilated and Soup Inspector, make sure you're facing northeast as well.
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Sep 14, 2014 06:06
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Jaguars! posted:On the second, yes that is a conciseness issue. However, company commanders should supply some orders for subordinate units in case the subcommander fails to show. I was impressed by this one of Gradenko's because it is useful to Grey but leaves the subbies plenty of room to do their thing. Thanks, I'm flattered. All I was doing was giving out what I wanted to happen (and why), but leaving the specifics to the lower-level commanders.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:05
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 10:04 |
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For our esteemed commander: 1. At what range do you want us to engage? Do you expect or want us to engage soon? Within the next turn? (2. What's the scale of a single square on our Roll20 map?) Arbite posted:How much longer is the battle's time limit? We still have a little over an hour left on the battle. Right now I don't have any further orders besides sitting tight and waiting for the Russkies to come closer, unless Bacarruda wants us to engage (as asked above). I feel like we're still another 5-10 mins away from getting into a good firing range with how tentative the Russians are being unless I'm completely off on my feel for ranges. While there are some units that we see taking the extreme north around the map, remember that they have to take the town sooner or later, and the longer they spend faffing about on long flanking maneuvers, the less time they have to still cross the bridge and take the other town. I'm also betting their scout car is pretty well spooked and won't be reporting back much of anything. EDIT: It seems like the tankers are in agreement! As they spoke, tank shells whistled in from the east and exploded nearby gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 19:20
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