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Astonishing Wang posted:Photo dump of the big turd: The truck in question is a 1954 International Harvester pickup truck, converted into a camper. When I was a kid my dad got an awesome camper from my grandpa. We took it on a couple of camping trips when I was younger, but my main memory of this truck is when the drive shaft fell out on the way to school and we got picked up by one of my teachers. My parents got tired of fixing it and gave it to my cousin. He was driving it for a while and using it to tailgate at sporting events until the motor blew. It's been sitting for at least 7 years. He's moving now and wants to know if I want to take it and keep it in the family. This truck was originally used by Walt Disney as a film truck. From what I've heard it was used to film The Living Desert but that may be wrong since the truck is a '54 and the movie is from '53. Anyway, it's got some history. It's a pickup truck with camper built on - wooden cabinets inside, little oven, seating area that converts into sleeping area, a roof rack on top and a ladder up the back. There's a crawl-thru between the cab and camper. It's root-beer brown. Before I got my Wrangler around 2.5 years ago I had never cared much about cars. I'm now quite into working on my jeep, though nothing I've done has been as intense as this project would be. The hardest jobs I've done so far were probably replacing lifters in the 4.0 and installing a slip yoke eliminator on my transfer case. Bringing this truck back to life would consist of at least a new motor and probably axles, driveshafts, fitting a radiator, brakes, fuel tanks and lines, running cables, electrical, etc. In other words, it would be a massive project. With all that said, I feel like it's doable if I take it on a piece at a time with a 10-year time budget. Having never done anything like this before I'm hoping for some good advice. It seems to me like the easiest way to do it would be finding a truck that could be the donor vehicle - with a good motor and axles that would be the right width. I was thinking something with a Chevy 350 but perhaps there are better options, I only say Chevy 350 because it seems like that's what people put into everything, and somebody told me that the small block Chevys drop right in to old IH trucks. The stock motor (that's blown) only put out 90 horsepower. The axles might not be ready for a bigger engine. Right now this is more of a feeler post for the potential project - I'm going to take a look at it this week and will post some photos. Is anyone here knowledgeable about old trucks of this vintage? Astonishing Wang fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 18:45
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Astonishing Wang posted:
Pics please. Do you have a stable home with room to store it where the neighboors won't complain? If so I think it would be great. You've already played with the 4.0 a bit and that would be a great swap, depending on the weight of the camper. I doubt it's 4x4 but it was an option at the time. I think swapping everything from a Jeep under it would be super cool. If not that then at least a front disc swap. Also you better check and see if you have the performance head with a whopping 6.5:1 compression. Bibendum fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 22:44
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Bibendum posted:Pics please. The biggest issue right now is the space - I have a buddy that's also a Jeep guy, he lives on a big piece of land and may be cool with me keeping it and working on it there. He also has a good welder and air compressor that would probably be important with something this old. I'm pretty sure it's RWD, and I might keep it that way just for simplicity-sake. The original motor is said to be shot, and if it wasn't I might run it, but it's only packing 90hp. A 4.0 sounds good to me because it's the only motor I know and parts are everywhere. In fact a buddy of mine currently has two of them sitting in his garage. I could potentially buy a 4.0 motor and trans (ax15?) and make them work with the stock axles. I would probably want to replace the axles though, as it seems parts are pretty hard to find. If you want to replace rotors you have to buy a pair that are close enough and have a machine shop enlarge the center. Would a 4.0 with 190 horses be enough for a 5,000+ lb. truck? I know it wouldn't be worse than the original motor. I think my TJ weighs about 4,400 lbs, and the 4.0 is fine even with 33" tires and 3.73 gearing. If the tires on this truck are any smaller than that I'm sure it would be enough power. I'm going over to see it on Wednesday - I'm trying to turn off my brain until then, I'm going crazy thinking about options and I don't even know for sure what year it is. Astonishing Wang fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 23:48
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Well it wouldn't be fast but I think the last thing anyone needs is a top-heavy camper with 1950's brakes and suspension that is happy to go 80mph.
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Aug 19, 2014 02:00
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If it turns out that the original components are questionable under high power, it doesn't rule out a smallblock. If anything it makes it easier as you just need to find a low-output version, which people are always replacing with higher output versions, which means they are plentiful and possibly as cheap as "free". I seem to remember some of them being as low as 120 HP, which sounds like it would be a nice boost to drive-ability without risking blowing up anything. I'll still second the notion that the brakes and suspension need a serious looking at, if even for no other reason that they are now over half a century old. They may be just fine for their application, or they may be an accident waiting to happen. We have a few International heads here, and I'm not really one of them, but I'm sure if you make photographs of the relevant bits someone with the right knowledge will give you a useful answer.
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Aug 19, 2014 03:39
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you piqued my interest, but I don't have anything to add, other than you reminded me of this film my grandpa took back in the late 50s. Probably an A-100? I don't know who it belongs to, friend or relative I suppose. My grandma is the lady in brown. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XODxgmZN11o
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Aug 19, 2014 06:20
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I don't know about the front end, but it's pretty darn simple to find a rear axle that's about the right width and swap it in. That would solve your rear brakes questions as well as provide stronger and easier-to-find parts. That said, depending upon the rear end, you might just keep it and upgrade the guts. Even if only the housing is factory, it's fun to say a part came with the truck. On the engine, why would you need to keep the engine stock? We have decent quality gasoline; you should have no problem doubling the factory horsepower without and drop in reliability. And 90hp means nothing when IH was known for stump-pulling torque. Don't downgrade to jeep parts. The 4.0 would just not be right and the axles are likely weaker than stock.
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Aug 19, 2014 08:41
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Advent Horizon posted:I don't know about the front end, but it's pretty darn simple to find a rear axle that's about the right width and swap it in. That would solve your rear brakes questions as well as provide stronger and easier-to-find parts. That said, depending upon the rear end, you might just keep it and upgrade the guts. Even if only the housing is factory, it's fun to say a part came with the truck. My mom just told me it's a '52, not a '54 like I thought. I'm going to look at it tonight instead of tomorrow  The front end is what worries me on this 62 year old behemoth. I want to be able to find parts at O'reilly, and that's impossible with this vehicle, unless there are cross-references to more common vehicles that I don't know about (I don't know anything yet so I should probably put off all speculation.) The rear end seems to be easy to replace with a ford 8.8 out of an explorer, though I'm not sure about the load capacity of that axle. The sometimes come with disk brakes though! On the engine - the head is just gone, as in missing. It had cracked and they just got rid of it, and then the project died off. As to stock power - I remember this thing being a DOG when I was a kid, like 40-45mph up hill. This will eventually be for road trips, and I'll want to be able to maintain at least 60mph. I like the idea of a mid-power 350 or the Jeep 4.0. When it comes to a vehicle like this with so few electronics - does an engine swap usually necessitate a computer and an octopus of wiring as well, or are there ways to run it without? Anyone have any good info sources for rookies? I WILL HAVE PHOTOS TONIGHT!!!!
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Aug 19, 2014 16:09
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Red_October_7000 posted:If it turns out that the original components are questionable under high power, it doesn't rule out a smallblock. If anything it makes it easier as you just need to find a low-output version, which people are always replacing with higher output versions, which means they are plentiful and possibly as cheap as "free". I seem to remember some of them being as low as 120 HP, which sounds like it would be a nice boost to drive-ability without risking blowing up anything. Somewhere, a long-abandoned TBI Chevy 305 is crying out in joy. Only slightly more complicated than the carb version, with minimal electronics. A very basic computer to handle the two injectors, and a self-contained ignition system (commonly known as the HEI - High Energy Ignition - in GM land). I'd still do a 350 over the 305, simply because it's a bit more power, but junkyards used to be overflowing with 305s. Also, the 8.8 can be built to handle a ton of power/weight. I doubt it'd handle the weight in stock form, but they're common as dirt and pretty cheap to build. Still, even with drum brakes, if they're well maintained, they'll stop it just fine. I'd still prefer a front disc brake conversion, but I'm so far out of my scope of knowledge already.
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Aug 19, 2014 16:30
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Cool project! If you want some inspiration check out my thread on my 56: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3601249 I have to go back to work right now but Ill get you some places to find parts later on when I get home.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:32
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Binder books is great http://www.binderbooks.com/index.htm Rock Auto also has a bunch of parts, I got all of my brake parts and water pump from them I havent tried any of these guys but its another place to check http://myplace.frontier.com/~tsunamikid/id12.html I guess I thought I had more links but I was able to get everything I needed from those places and NAPA. NAPA is pretty good about having parts for old, weird stuff. Also check out oldihc.org if you haven't yet. If it were me Id go for the 4.0 conversion. Keep it a straight 6! 190hp should be more than enough.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:49
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Thanks for the info - I'll be sure to check it out when I know more! I went and saw the truck tonight and I'm 100% IN. Still contingent on the land unfortunately. So it IS a 1954 model. R-120 series, but its a dualie and I don't find anything about that online. I have a bunch of photos to post tomorrow morning. Its better than I thought rust-wise, but the interior is worse than I remembered. Interior is easy though. This has the bigger diamond motor in it I'm pretty sure. Well the bottom half anyway. The front axle is a beam or something like that. I've never really seen an axle without a differential before. I only know what a Dana 30 and Dana 44 look like and the rear was loving HUGE compared to a 44. Yeah right, good luck sleeping. my brain won't shut off tonight.
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Aug 20, 2014 06:29
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The rear axle is a dually, 6 lug. I think Dana 70 is an 8-lug, right? Photo dump of the big turd: Paint is in really good shape   I love the bigass visor and spot-light. There is a vent behind each door that pops open to pull air into the back.    Rear ladder and back door. There's a door that opens right above the step that you open to access the spare tire.  R-120 Series  Roof looks good too  Big dumb face   Sweet turn signals  Bigass steering wheel and awesome gauges    Looks like a heater was added at some point (bottom right of dash)  Here's the crawl-through that goes from the cab into the back - this Naugahyde upholstery was put in by my father.  The inside could use a woman's touch. I think we'll wear respirators when we tear it out.   Water tank above the sink - two separate tanks, not sure why. There is also a propane oven and a fridge that you put a giant ice block in and hope for the best.  Window cranks and handles all seem to work - but doors need new door cards or covers of some sort  Well there's your problem right there... this has an oil-bath type filter. As in the filter is sitting in a pool of oil.  Front axle  I guess I didn't get a good shot of the rear pumpkin - but here's the dualie rear:  Undercarriage:  and one of the baby - ready for rain! 
Astonishing Wang fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 17:33
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I'm one step closer - My buddy said he's cool with keeping it at his place, he just needs talk to his wife. My girlfriend already talked to her and she said no problem, so I'm calling it at least 85% sure. So far it looks like I will be putting in a Dana 70 or a 14-bolt dually rear axle. Not sure what to do with the front beam axle yet, but something will need to be done to match the bolt pattern of whatever rear axle I get. OR I could try and track down some wheels that fit the 6 x 7.25" bolt pattern on the original front. I think doing away with the old and getting some stuff in there that is easy to find parts for is my best bet. Does anyone know of a super simple front axle that would swap in with minimal work? I assume I'll need to relocate spring perches at a minimum. Need to stop thinking about axles and worry about a motor. I'm leaning towards the 350, but there are so many different versions. I want something that requires minimal to no computers. I'm going to get a notebook and start writing down some plans.
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Aug 21, 2014 16:51
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Honestly I'd say get an IH engine to swap in, maybe you find one that bolts to the existing transmission. That engine may be worth something (cash or trade) on Binder Bulletin, the IH forums.
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Aug 21, 2014 16:59
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DJ Commie posted:Honestly I'd say get an IH engine to swap in, maybe you find one that bolts to the existing transmission. That engine may be worth something (cash or trade) on Binder Bulletin, the IH forums. The problem with that is that I want this thing to be useful on road trips. I won't want to drive it if it tops out at 45mph :-(
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Aug 21, 2014 18:36
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Nothing to add other than subscribed, this thing is AI as gently caress.
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Aug 21, 2014 19:16
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Astonishing Wang posted:The problem with that is that I want this thing to be useful on road trips. I won't want to drive it if it tops out at 45mph :-( That may be a bit much for un-assisted single circuit drum brakes, leaf sprung beam axles, and that transmission/rear end. You'd basically have to shove in a different engine/transmission/rear end, like you said.
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Aug 21, 2014 19:26
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Lots of 2wd front ends are beam axle to this day. You should have no problems finding one with an 8x6.5 bolt pattern and disc brakes.
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Aug 21, 2014 22:32
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This project is a go! I've got the space at my buddies house, and we're going to get it flat bedded over in a few weeks. He knows a guy with a 80's 1-ton that we're going to try and get our hands on. It's got a chevy 454 with turbo 400 transmission and dually rear. The dream right now is to take the body off of the 1-ton and plop this camper body on top of it. I'm sure that will be a super easy job  The camper is now named Mac, after my grandpa. Here's Mac's spot.  There is a bit of interior collapse - I think this is from sitting in Yuma, AZ for a couple of years at 120 degrees.  I'm going to see what I can do to get this propane oven / stovetop working again. It's got a flip-down cover that goes over the burners. I love the style.  Lookit this big bitch  This driveshaft is bigger than yo mamas rear end 
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Aug 25, 2014 16:33
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Today I'm signing up for AAA with RV/Motorcycle towing package. The truck is coming home next weekend 
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Sep 4, 2014 18:42
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Looks like a ton of fun! Another motor option - my boss decided when he was rebuilding his camper, that he wanted to be able to climb local hills in 5th gear without slowing down, so he opted for a 4 cylinder Cummins turbo diesel. I think it's the same one they run in UPS trucks or something, he did a full custom setup with intercooler and all that, he runs ridiculous boost like 35 PSI (or so) and it maintains speed no matter the hill and gets 21 MPG all day long. He just has to watch the EGT.
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Sep 8, 2014 07:55
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LloydDobler posted:Looks like a ton of fun! Another motor option - my boss decided when he was rebuilding his camper, that he wanted to be able to climb local hills in 5th gear without slowing down, so he opted for a 4 cylinder Cummins turbo diesel. I think it's the same one they run in UPS trucks or something, he did a full custom setup with intercooler and all that, he runs ridiculous boost like 35 PSI (or so) and it maintains speed no matter the hill and gets 21 MPG all day long. He just has to watch the EGT. That seems like it would be perfect, but the current plan is to buy one donor truck and make everything work. I wonder how hard it would be to make an old u-haul or UPS truck fit the bill? There's also the option of finding a diesel 1-ton, but I feel like those might be prized possessions here in California. Also, I barely know anything about gas motors - would the switch to a diesel motor throw me many curve-balls?
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Sep 8, 2014 16:55
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I like the potential of this! It could be the next Phutney Creech Land Yacht! You could definitely benefit from Mooecows knowledge of restoring gigantic and awesome truck things too.
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Sep 9, 2014 09:03
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Advent Horizon posted:Lots of 2wd front ends are beam axle to this day. You should have no problems finding one with an 8x6.5 bolt pattern and disc brakes. On the other hand, if you're swapping out the entire drivetrain anyway, you might as well look up the axle widths of the old SJ (full-size) Cherokee/Wagoneer, they're going cheap now. Get one with a 258, do the ol' 4.0 head swap, and have a 4x4 turd with a straight 6! The little Cummins diesel would be a good choice too, though I don't know if an ancient frame would be able to handle the 6L version from a 1-ton Dodge -- some of the guys on the FSJ forum back when I had one were considering it, but reinforcing the frame was too much work.
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Sep 10, 2014 01:14
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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I'm worried about any modern(ish) motor stressing the frame - that's a big part of why I'm hoping to find a donor vehicle from which I can use the frame and basically everything else that's attached to it. Once it's towed to it's work space I'll be able to start taking measurements and doing some research. In my head a frame swap can't be that hard, but I'm sure there's a lot more to it than I'm thinking about. Firstly, will the camper fit onto the frame at all, secondly how will the axles line up, thirdly how stable will I be able to make the cab-to-frame connections. It's a fuckton of thinking and it's already hurting my brain a little. I need to get a notebook and start writing things down.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:30
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Frame plating + a motor swap is going to be way less work than a frame swap.
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Sep 10, 2014 18:06
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Slow is Fast posted:Frame plating + a motor swap is going to be way less work than a frame swap. It seems it's (in essence) either: Option A - Add motor mounts and transmission mounts to current frame Install motor and transmission reinforce frame Install front and rear axles and put them where they need to be Get driveshaft(s) made Option B - Put body onto donor frame with everything still attached. Attach cab to frame. Relocate rear axle to fit in the wheel well Get driveshaft(s) made. Obviously I'm missing a million variables with either option - but to me it makes more sense to take a running truck with available parts and put the camper on top than it does to basically create a new driveline on a c-channel frame from 1954. That being said, I don't know how realistic it is to expect I'll be able to lift the massive camper off of it's frame and slide it onto another one. Something about 4x4" boards and saw-horses e: Option C - Find a donor truck and get a camper shell. Scrap the 1954.
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Sep 10, 2014 19:03
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Astonishing Wang posted:Scrap the 1954. ABSOLUTELY NOT.
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Sep 11, 2014 07:27
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Is that an old Eaton rear end?
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Sep 11, 2014 22:06
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InterceptorV8 posted:Is that an old Eaton rear end? Probably - but I haven't had a chance to really ID anything yet. It's getting moved on Saturday so I'll know way more then 
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Sep 11, 2014 22:17
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We got the truck moved on Saturday - I aired up the tires to make it roll a little easier. Three out of four corners got to 30psi just fine, but the driver side rear has a pretty good leak and starting shooting water out once I took off the inflator.  The tow truck got it pretty much where we wanted it, but we needed to slide the front around a little bit to line it up right. We took off the front wheel and wrapped some chain around the axle, hooked it to the hi lift and the other end around a big 'ol boulder. It took a few rounds of cranking and resetting but it worked perfectly. The rear tire that is flat took a hell of a beating getting slid on like that.  My girlfriend starting removing insulation and wood paneling, and emptying drawers and cabinets.   I love this big dumb face.    And then the radiator in my Jeep got a crack in the plastic tank. I replaced the radiator and the lower hose blew off on the way home. I fixed the hose and made it the rest of the way home, but noticed a slow drip coming from the drain valve. I tried to tighten the lovely loving valve and the lovely fucker snapped off and sprayed hot coolant all over my arm and the street. I'm getting a new valve tonight. On top of that, it's not starting for some reason - maybe coolant got sprayed on the connections and they just need to be cleaned? I think it's either the starter or the battery cables. The starter and battery are both a year old at the oldest, and I've been meaning to fix the cables for a while, so I'm going to pull them off tonight and see about fixing the terminal. I'll probably take the starter in to get tested while I'm working on it anyway. gently caress jeeps sometimes. Astonishing Wang fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 16:44
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Astonishing Wang posted:gently caress jeeps sometimes.
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Sep 15, 2014 17:52
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Astonishing Wang posted:I'm worried about any modern(ish) motor stressing the frame You know, just thinking this through logically I wouldn't worry about this at all. The weight of the truck (in thousands of pounds) is way more load than engine torque (in the hundreds of ft-lb). I mean, I can generate a few hundred foot pounds standing on the end of a breaker bar. The way I see it, the camper weight and shock loads of road bumps (which the chassis was already designed for) is way more stress than even a beefy V8 will put out. I say keep the whole chassis original and just put a better motor in. Edit: Even geared down you're really only likely to see like 1000 ft-lb at the drive shaft, no? I still think it'll be fine. LloydDobler fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 18:59
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That looks a lot like the Eaton in my '67 Chevy. The 3/4-tons came with the HO52, and the 1-ton's came with a HO72, which AFAIK could be dually. They're tough sons of bitches, but parts for them are getting really rare and gearing options are really limited. My HO52 came in 4.56 or 4.10 and nobody is making anything else for it. Swapping a rear end is generally considered to be pretty easy, especially if you have a talented welder around. I'm not sure about the dually version (dana 70/80) but Dana 60's came in OEM applications for nearly four decades, so buying parts at a place like O'reilly is easy. Tons of aftermarket support too.
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Sep 16, 2014 02:29
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If you want to play along at home I've created this beauty. My girlfriend is already thinking about paint schemes  
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Sep 16, 2014 23:04
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If it were my project, I'd probably look for a donor rig for pretty much everything...engine, drivetrain, axles, etc. Something 3/4-1 ton mid-late 80's-90's chevy/dodge/ford would make it easy to maintain & find parts for. Simple carbureted small block v8, auto/manual whatever trans, dually rear end should be pretty easy to find.
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Sep 17, 2014 14:15
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Sep 17, 2014 22:33
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Thanks for your idea, I'll run it by my girlfriend. Sorry about the lovely lines. Here's one of my original ideas, never seen anything like this before. Orange because it's a cool color, and 01 because I'm numbr 01! 
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Sep 17, 2014 23:04
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Pretty pessimistic of you to include that massive oil spot
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Sep 17, 2014 23:59
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