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Doctor Reynolds posted:Wow I don't think I have ever disagreed with a post more. drat! Okay. I like Pikmin 2. I think it's a good game. The above post was me explicitly stating some of things I feel are wrong with the game because it has a number of problems which people ignore since Pikmin 2 came out years ago, and the unbelievable amount of charm and satisfaction contained inside the game create such an incredibly delightful nostalgia cocktail for it. I know this, I remember borrowing the game from a friend years ago and only playing it partway through, and when I gave it back, I wanted to play it extremely badly for ages. I ended up finally getting my hands on the game again, years later, playing through it, again, only partway through because this time I was borrowing it from my sister (as she really wanted the New Play Control version since Pikmin 3 would be out soon). Time passed, I beat Pikmin 3, I went back to Pikmin and finally finished it for the first time, and then I came back to Pikmin 2 and was shocked at just how inconsequential the aboveground areas felt, as well as how little proper use the two-captain setup got. When I finally made it to Submerged Castle, it blew my mind with how well it used everything Pikmin 2 had to offer, how it actually made the tight, labyrinthine corridors worth something, how it made the purple pikmin work really well by weaponizing them against an enemy you otherwise couldn't touch, how threatening and straight-up frightening said enemy was, how it restricted you to one type at the beginning, and gave you three more by the end (provided you didn't enter with 100 blues). It throws a flaming bulblax and fire jets at you when you only have blues, that's cool level design with a unique idea. The area where the Water Wraith first appears is set up perfectly, hell, the entire way that the Water Wraith interacts with you is perfect as it means you have to be entirely aware of the positions of both captains and the monster at any given time. Pikmin 2's big advantage, as a whole, is that it's satisfying to play. It rewards you with over 200 unique treasures, each with their own entertaining flavor text (which it doubles as a reward for completing a "set" of treasures), and doubles the flavor text for the enemies as your reward for completing the game. Pikmin 2 is absolutely all about the reward you get at the end of the journey, but the journey, at times, is either annoying or just monotonous. If you have the patience to attempt complete any of the later dungeons without losing any pikmin, the game's flaws will likely become very clear to you, very quickly. Oh also, there's the fact that pikmin trip in the first two games, holy cow that was the dumbest idea and I'm glad it doesn't happen in 3.
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Sep 7, 2014 14:22
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This game is adorable and cute and sometimes it's a little hard to figure out where to go but it's okay I usually make progress every day. I'm prolly going super slow, it's like day 23 in my game and I only just beat the Sandbelcher. So much fruit! Also I really like all the main characters, Brittany is my favorite.
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Sep 7, 2014 15:10
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You are going kinda sorta slow, but there's no negatives to taking your time in this game.
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Sep 7, 2014 15:16
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Crawfish posted:You are going kinda sorta slow, but there's no negatives to taking your time in this game. I remember in Pikmin 2, if you took too long the game would start spawning harder enemies in the overworlds.
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Sep 7, 2014 15:44
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Antikythera posted:I remember in Pikmin 2, if you took too long the game would start spawning harder enemies in the overworlds. Doesn't happen in this game afaik; every area is pretty much just the same and you have about three times as much juice as you need even if you go slowly. You can waste a looot of time in Pikmin 3 which is nice. Like, seriously I cannot imagine someone taking more than 70 days to finish this game.
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Sep 7, 2014 15:47
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Neruz posted:Like, seriously I cannot imagine someone taking more than 70 days to finish this game. You heard the man, Zfleeman, let's make it happen! 
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Sep 7, 2014 16:34
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Captain Bravo posted:You heard the man, Zfleeman, let's make it happen! "Hi, welcome to our lets play now with more codeine."
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Sep 7, 2014 17:24
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Antikythera posted:I remember in Pikmin 2, if you took too long the game would start spawning harder enemies in the overworlds. Coming from a guy who played Pikmin 2 to dearth that doesn't happen. There is only one enemy who appears on certain days in the over world and it's not even an enemy moreso then a treasure trove of berry essence, but that's about it. To Ultigonio's repartee of Pikmin 2 I agree about some of the bad things, but I'm willing to overlook them because the game is much more charming and challenging then Pikmin 1 ever was for me. While sure the dungeons can be annoying when randomized, the overworld doesn't bring much new, it's still fantastic, the game is hard as balls, and it's all the more rewarding doing a no-death pikmin run in it...especially with the hardest dungeons that basically consist of boss rushes *shudder*
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Sep 7, 2014 17:33
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I seem to recall Beady Long Legs spawning on top of the spawn point if it's like Day 30 or something in Pikmin 2.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:32
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Doctor Reynolds posted:I seem to recall Beady Long Legs spawning on top of the spawn point if it's like Day 30 or something in Pikmin 2. This does happen just beyond the spawn point of the pool area in 2, it drops a bunch of color pellets.
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Sep 7, 2014 20:24
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Looking at the Pikmin Wiki, it seems like the only area that increases the difficulty as the days go by is Perplexing Pool, which, as you mentioned, drops a Beady Long Legs on the landing site. It also dots the area with Dwarf Bulbears at day 10. The other two areas that change, Awakening Wood and Wistful Wild, actually make things significantly easier with what they spawn (particularly these guys, who I'd never heard of until just now).Pixeltendo posted:To Ultigonio's repartee of Pikmin 2 I agree about some of the bad things, but I'm willing to overlook them because the game is much more charming and challenging then Pikmin 1 ever was for me. I also feel that, if I'm gonna' talk a bunch of smack about 2, I may as well praise its BGM. Regardless of how much I like game's tracks as music for music's sake, the sheer effort and ideas present is absolutely jaw-dropping. Of course, it has the Pikmin essentials, stuff like a fade-in "battle" track or "working" track, but there's also the way that the rhythm of the music dynamically adjusts based on the active captain, and this is an absolutely brilliant idea that is, stunningly, executed for almost every area track in the game. This motif even carries over to the captains' respective victory themes (and loss themes) in the versus mode. Both of the dynamic boss theme are also executed particularly well; I love how the Titan Dweevil has a different "theme" for every weapon, as well as the way its general theme amps up every time you remove a piece of its arsenal. I apologize for the multiple walls of text. I have way too much to say about Pikmin 2. It makes me feel a lot of emotions. edit: Also, just to be clear, I'm not saying that the first Pikmin is a better experience than the second. The first game severely lacks polish, and has a lot of level design issues that are really tough to look past. Its challenge mode is extremely barebones, it only has one real boss fight, with the others being vaguely more challenging enemies that can still be beaten within seconds, and only a select few of the "challenges" that the game presents you requiring anything thinking at all. The pikmin do all sorts of stupid stuff that makes them get stuck, and keeping track of them with just Olimar can be a huge pain. When it comes to Pikmin, I like playing it because it's a compact experience, and I think it deserves a very tiny bit of credit for being so unique at the time. Ultigonio fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 20:29
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Also, saying they're just "re-using" level from the first game is disingenuous. The areas have changed dramatically, showing the passage of time and once you finally notice that they're the same places you get like a warm cozy feeling. You also land in different locations on the level. As for the game not being difficult if you don't care about losing Pikmin: YOU'RE A MONSTER, GOSH!!!
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Sep 7, 2014 21:30
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Ultigonio posted:
And it's one of the reasons I really miss the c-stick movement for the Pikmin in 3  listening to the little tune to plays whenever you move them never got old.Also I never knew about the Beady long legs appearing on day 30, so that's new and gives me a reason to play the game again!
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Sep 7, 2014 21:48
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Pixeltendo posted:Also I never knew about the Beady long legs appearing on day 30, so that's new and gives me a reason to play the game again! It's not fun if you know. The real way to experience it is to have it drop out of the sky on you, kill a good chunk of your pikmin, and be utterly thrown into a state of terror as you try to figure out just what in the world is happening.
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Sep 8, 2014 01:06
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Doctor Reynolds posted:Also, saying they're just "re-using" level from the first game is disingenuous. The areas have changed dramatically, showing the passage of time and once you finally notice that they're the same places you get like a warm cozy feeling. You also land in different locations on the level. That's not quite what I said. I said that they reused level ideas from the first game*, which they absolutely did. You remember that one series of tall blocks in Perplexing Pool/Distant Spring where you have to toss 15 yellow pikmin up to a high platform in order to collect the treasure/ship part up there? Between the two games, this challenge is almost identical, with the one slight difference being negligible. There's another example with the challenge that's directly off to the right of both landing sites, where you toss a group of pikmin up to a ledge and guide them across it. In the first game, you take blues, as the ship part's right at the end, but in the second game, you take yellows, since you need them to tear down an electric fence. Was this change in task part of the first game as an optional challenge mode, I'd say it's a good way to build on a previously established strategy, but I'm really not sure it's content I'd put in the "meat" of a sequel. In the case of Awakening Wood and Wistful Wilds (particularly the latter), it's not anywhere near as clear that you're actually revisiting old areas, but Perplexing Pool is pretty unabashedly The Distant Spring. And I do like the idea of revisiting old areas that have been seriously redesigned. Pikmin 3 did it very subtly for one of its mission maps, and when I recognized it on my own, I felt like a rad dude. Also, I prefer not to think of the differences between the two games as the effects of time passing, because that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Pixeltendo posted:And it's one of the reasons I really miss the c-stick movement for the Pikmin in 3 Oh, moreover: the BGM in Pikmin 2 was planned out really well, too. Each of the song "genres" are types that are comfortable with Louie's offbeat rhythm for his background music. A waltz and a march, for example. *I also said that they reused layouts, but I meant that on a much smaller scale, not full levels. Ultigonio fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Sep 8, 2014 |
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Sep 8, 2014 04:50
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Ultigonio posted:Also, I prefer not to think of the differences between the two games as the effects of time passing, because that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Because everything else in the Pikmin universe makes so much sense that is clearly the only part that doesn't. 
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Sep 8, 2014 10:28
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Neruz posted:Because everything else in the Pikmin universe makes so much sense that is clearly the only part that doesn't. I actually have no problem with the "lol just 'cause" line of thought that goes into lots of video game choices, but if you're going to try to craft any internal logic, it better be airtight. So I don't.
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Sep 8, 2014 16:13
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Human artifacts lasting waaaaay longer than they would in reality is a really common thing to see in fiction; many people have very poor senses of scale.
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Sep 8, 2014 17:53
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Neruz posted:Human artifacts lasting waaaaay longer than they would in reality is a really common thing to see in fiction; many people have very poor senses of scale. It's always the pieces that you'd never even think about failing too. That latex surgical tubing for the Fallout 3 dart gun wouldn't last the +100 years in super moist conditions, let alone any of the electronics, fuel or gun grease for that matter. It's not realistic, especially when somethings get completely ruined and others are in pristine condition, but the stories would be sooooooo boring without that bending of reality
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Sep 8, 2014 18:04
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Yeah, although in the case of Pikmin 2, I imagine that the human artifacts existed for the purpose of having the world be clearly identifiable (although things like the blacktop road and yield sign may have handled that just as aptly), more than for the world to make sense. Things in video games often have purposes that don't include making sense, so I don't have an issue with that. The bigger problem I have with purposely applying the idea that the geographical changes are due to the passage of time is as follows: Olimar is on the alien planet (now known as PNF-404) for, let's just say, 30 days, since that's the max time someone can make the game last. He then travels to Hocotate, and is almost immediately redirected back to PNF-404 with Louie. Let's call the time spent making the round-trip between PNF-404 and Hocotate x. x almost definitely HAS to be greater than 30 because Olimar stays on PNF-404 for 30 days without any of the geography changing. So let's say, then, that x is the minimum amount of time required for serious changes to be made to the aboveground areas in question. So Olimar and Louie accomplish their goal, Olimar travels back to Hocotate, the president's all, "Looouiiiie!" and they go back to PNF-404. Which means that they just traveled approximately x, which should mean that there would be even more severe geographical changes, but, of course, there aren't. I mean, I guess if the Dolphin was that slow and the Hocotate Freight company ship was that fast, then maybe the second round trip would be a lot shorter, but.... You see what I'm doing? Like seriously, if I asked one of the developers, "Why are the areas the same but different in terms of the context of the game world," and they said, "I dunno, just 'cause," that would be a perfectly acceptable answer to me. Same goes for why the treasures are still there. If you set up your world in a way that I'm supposed to make sense out of it, and it doesn't make sense, then that don't fly. But if I'm given cool stuff and I don't gotta' make sense out of it? Whatever, I don't care, I'm gonna' enjoy the cool stuff. It should also be noted that if your cool stuff isn't actually cool and doesn't make sense, then that's really just dumb and you suck at making good video games, probably.
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Sep 8, 2014 18:15
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The Door Frame posted:It's always the pieces that you'd never even think about failing too. That latex surgical tubing for the Fallout 3 dart gun wouldn't last the +100 years in super moist conditions, let alone any of the electronics, fuel or gun grease for that matter. It's not realistic, especially when somethings get completely ruined and others are in pristine condition, but the stories would be sooooooo boring without that bending of reality They also just underestimate the speed at which non-human life reclaims areas without constant human intervention. The sort of 'grass cracking up through the pavement, ivy growing on the buildings, glass broken' ruin that movies often show as being hundreds of years after human occupation is actually found after only a decade or two of abandonment.
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Sep 8, 2014 18:16
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I remember watching this movie about how if humans just up and vanished, our pets would probably take over the world.
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Sep 8, 2014 19:16
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Neruz posted:Human artifacts lasting waaaaay longer than they would in reality is a really common thing to see in fiction; many people have very poor senses of scale. Take any time period in the Star Wars universe (outside of near past/future like the time it took Luke to grow up), divide by ten, and you get something much more reasonable. Twenty-five thousand year old monarchies become 2,500 years old and you haven't lost anything interesting.
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Sep 8, 2014 20:37
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Bruceski posted:Take any time period in the Star Wars universe (outside of near past/future like the time it took Luke to grow up), divide by ten, and you get something much more reasonable. Twenty-five thousand year old monarchies become 2,500 years old and you haven't lost anything interesting. Yeah sci-fi stuff and absolutely anything at all involving stellar bodies and space travel is almost always the worst offender when it comes to utterly nonsensical lengths of both time and distance. Very few people fully grasp just how big and empty space is.
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Sep 8, 2014 20:51
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And only huge nerds care.
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Sep 8, 2014 21:12
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Doctor Reynolds posted:I remember watching this movie about how if humans just up and vanished, our pets would probably take over the world. That was a video game and it was Tokyo Jungle.
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Sep 8, 2014 21:18
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Doctor Reynolds posted:And only huge nerds care. This is how I feel when anyone seriously discusses economy or logistics in a Nintendo game. Kirby is actually a monster considering how he eats everything? Uuuugh, shut uuuuup.
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Sep 8, 2014 21:23
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Neruz posted:They also just underestimate the speed at which non-human life reclaims areas without constant human intervention. The sort of 'grass cracking up through the pavement, ivy growing on the buildings, glass broken' ruin that movies often show as being hundreds of years after human occupation is actually found after only a decade or two of abandonment. The only film I can think of recently that gets this right is the new Godzilla movie where after a nuclear disaster the nearby city gos full overgrown Chernobyl in a little over a decade.
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Sep 8, 2014 22:03
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RareAcumen posted:This is how I feel when anyone seriously discusses economy or logistics in a Nintendo game. I kind of ping-pong back and forth on this depending on a bunch of things. Like, did some actual details the actual creator actually established set up some really weird/bad/alarming implications? I'll probably bite. Is it someone doing the "Finn is really having a hallucination while he dies/is in a coma because grimdark and depressing is better than cheery and colorful" thing? You can gently caress right off you boring twat. "Kirby is actually a monster" falls someplace between the two, but it's definitely more on the "you're a twat" side.
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Sep 8, 2014 22:23
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Doctor Reynolds posted:And only huge nerds care. RareAcumen posted:This is how I feel when anyone seriously discusses economy or logistics in a Nintendo game. Besides that, you're wrong because this commercial is hilarious.
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Sep 8, 2014 23:01
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It seems like it's a good strategy to only go a round with like 70 or 80 pikmin, so you can leave some growing into flowers.
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Sep 9, 2014 03:21
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Ultigonio posted:I'm not sure that's really comparable. When your "logistics" equate to "This game seems super colorful and happy but it's actually very dark and scary!" then yeah, I understand your point. However, Pikmin is a series that puts a lot of care into the details, so I don't think analyzing some of those things is completely out of the question. Games are allowed to have complex internal logic, even ones made by Nintendo. A lot of the subtext in Majora's Mask is really neat, for example. Fine. Imagine I said canon in the Mario universe.
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Sep 9, 2014 03:38
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Hey, we recorded a few days this evening, and I was going to upload them this evening, but poo poo got pretty drunk. But hey! We made a whole bunch of fruit juice cocktails per your recommendations, and I'll post the ingredients for each along with the Day 7 video tomorrow evening. 
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Sep 9, 2014 04:06
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Boozy smoothies: Frozen mixed berries, ice, mineral water, booze, blender.
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Sep 9, 2014 08:27
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Speleothing posted:Boozy smoothies: Alcohol and fruit were made for each other, the proof is in how easy it is to just mix them together and get something that tastes excellent and gets you shitfaced at the same time.
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Sep 9, 2014 12:34
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I saw something in a gas station last night, and immediately thought of this thread. A company named Bai5 has started making drinks out of coffee cherries, and one of them has dragonfruit juice in it. It tastes goddamned incredible. So add Coffee Cherry and Dragonfruit to the list of fruits that taste good together.
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Sep 9, 2014 15:30
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Day 7 -- Shed some light on the situation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bzdEKAlzG0  VIDEO WARNING: My mic levels are a little hot for like the first minute. It's all good, though. Don't worry about it. I'm not worried about it. I switched to Wii Remote + Nunchuck controls, and I really like it! We start the day looking for the "cartoonish face with a boulder for a nose," and end up actually having a pretty successful, kind of uneventful day. I was sipping on Orange + Mango (Pikmin names to be revealed later in this series) with a splash of Zest Bomb and tequila. Sean and Grant had a Face Wrinkler with Zest Bomb and tequila.  e: I cut off the video too soon. Here's the journal entry for that day. 
zfleeman fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 02:21
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By the way, that mystery mango-ish fruit is a loquat.  
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Sep 10, 2014 02:52
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I wonder what the crew would think of a Durian?
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Sep 10, 2014 03:07
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I'm not worried about getting Pikmin *loses 25 Pikmin. Mostly Rocks*
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Sep 10, 2014 03:48
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