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Miltank posted:Find me the new testament quote. I can think of one, where Jesus says that blaspheme against the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. I didn't say 'the only unforgivable sin,' I said they are not tolerant religions and have taught hate and violence to everyone who isn't the same as them. John posted:Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds. translation: nonchristians are evil, and should be treated as such. lexan posted:Not really. This essentialist approach you're taking is pretty ahistorical. The Abrahamic faiths have all preached destruction, forced conversion, coexistence or tolerance depending on their circumstances. They're human constructions that adapt as necessary. You're right. I'm mostly trying to say that to hold atheism as the reason for the atrocities committed by Stalin and Mao is ridiculous, which is what Miltank asserted earlier. And also that atheism as a belief or ethos hasn't resulted in nearly the amount of violence that the religions of Abraham have. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 03:07
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Aug 24, 2014 03:10
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Miltank posted:Find me the new testament quote. I can think of one, where Jesus says that blaspheme against the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. "lol, kill all jews" -Paul, probably
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Aug 24, 2014 03:11
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Miltank posted:Find me the new testament quote. I can think of one, where Jesus says that blaspheme against the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. Anyway here's the quote but it certainly doesn't say that's the only unforgiveable sin. And by the way that's a weak argument lol 'well you're wrong except for this one part of the new testament I can think of but it isn't mentioned anywhere else so there!' Mark 3:22-30 posted:Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:14
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Moridin920 posted:a political institution that owed its entire existence to religion, and the inquisition was used to combat those designated by the cardinals or whoever as heretics (mostly protestants and political enemies, yes). Religion can be hijacked the same as any idea, but you have a strange understanding of history if you believe that it was religion alone that could allow the church to remain in power as if religion fills some sort of cultural slot that is emptied by atheism. Moridin920 posted:what is the problem with that statement? atheism doesn't have dogma associated with it, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism all do and the dogma is pretty loving insane and nasty upon close examination. Atheism doesn't have dogma associated with it, but whatever belief is lost isn't gone and replaced with actual rationality. Ideology is replaced by ideology so atheism is just as likely to lead to death as any other worldview depending on where and when you are.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:15
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Miltank posted:Religion can be hijacked the same as any idea, but you have a strange understanding of history if you believe that it was religion alone that could allow the church to remain in power as if religion fills some sort of cultural slot that is emptied by atheism. That's true. So why are the Soviet purges the result of atheism like you said on the other page?
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Aug 24, 2014 03:16
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Moridin920 posted:Anyway here's the quote but it certainly doesn't say that's the only unforgiveable sin. And by the way that's a weak argument lol 'well you're wrong except for this one part of the new testament I can think of but it isn't mentioned anywhere else so there!' you don't know much about Christianity do you? If you go to a local church I am sure that a pastor would love to answer any questions that you might have.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:17
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Miltank posted:you don't know much about Christianity do you? If you go to a local church I am sure that a pastor would love to answer any questions that you might have. I know enough about to know that a pastor will manipulate information to paint Christianity in the best light possible.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:18
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Moridin920 posted:That's true. So why are the Soviet purges the result of atheism like you said on the other page? because belief in God was replaced by idealization of the state/progress of history/the mythic common man which provided the justifications for hundreds of thousands of deaths.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:19
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Moridin920 posted:
I didn't think he was saying that so much as saying it's as absurd to blame atheism for Mao as it is to blame Christianity for pedophilia. Maybe I'm misinterpreting him though. Edit: later posts have shown I was misinterpreting. Carry on. lexan fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 03:20
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Moridin920 posted:I know enough about to know that a pastor will manipulate information to paint Christianity in the best light possible. where are you currently getting your unbiased information about Christianity?
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Aug 24, 2014 03:20
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Miltank posted:because belief in God was replaced by idealization of the state/progress of history/the mythic common man which provided the justifications for hundreds of thousands of deaths. So without atheism the purges wouldn't have happened? Ha. Miltank posted:where are you currently getting your unbiased information about Christianity? The Bible. Which, funnily enough, was considered heretical to read if you weren't clergy for a looong time. Probably because read objectively, the Bible is loving nuts.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:20
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I'm not big on religion but when I clicked thread and looked at OP before not reading it I sort of said "oh god". Makes you think.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:21
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Moridin920 posted:So without atheism the purges wouldn't have happened? Ha. without atheism there is no USSR. doesn't sound like a very unbaised source op maybe try this? http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618918248/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1408846988&sr=1-1&keywords=god+delusion
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Aug 24, 2014 03:22
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Simple, God was a scientist from another dimension and his dimension was ending. And on the last minute on the last hour on the last day after countless years toiling in his lab, he broke through the dimensional rift as Armageddon was destroying his universe. Upon entering our universe he became the divine consciousness and creator, for there were no laws before him. And thus our universe was then made to accept him.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:22
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Miltank posted:Religion can be hijacked the same as any idea, but you have a strange understanding of history if you believe that it was religion alone that could allow the church to remain in power as if religion fills some sort of cultural slot that is emptied by atheism. Religion in general and Christianity in particular promise you an eternal paradise if you only stop asking questions and follow orders. It's pretty clear that they originated as a method of social control, which is the form in which they persist. Atheism doesn't compel you to follow some artificial authority figure in order to win some made-up reward. This is why when people are religiously compelled to do something, it's fair to blame religion, but when people who happen to be atheist do something, it makes no sense to blame atheism.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:23
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Miltank posted:without atheism there is no USSR. I don't understand why you think atheism was the driving force behind the creation of the USSR when it was obviously Marxism. Marx didn't like religion as he (rightly) thought it was a tool to control the masses but uh it's not like the October revolution happened because of atheism.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:23
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Moridin920 posted:I don't understand why you think atheism was the driving force behind the creation of the USSR when it was obviously Marxism. Atheism? Marxism? Socialism? They're all synonyms for "ungodly lies". Stop asking questions and read your Bible.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:24
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Miltank posted:where are you currently getting your unbiased information about Christianity? Here's where I get mine: http://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html Exodus 21:20-21King James Version (KJV) 20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money. So you can kill your servants and not be punished as long as they don't die too quickly! Have fun with your religion! Kanthulhu fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 03:26
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Man lots of people are still angry about having to go to Sunday School and missing their morning cartoons.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:28
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atheism is coincidentally the believe system of USSR and really all those atrocities would have happened anyway, but ___________ was a uniquely Christian phenomenon that wouldn't have happened under an atheist regime.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:29
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Miltank posted:atheism is coincidentally the believe system of USSR ok but again, you're wrong. Atheism was not 'the belief system' of the USSR. It was one aspect of a larger belief system.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:30
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theism is not the belief system of anything though so that is a lovely deflection.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:30
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Both the USSR and Atheism suck, so I really can't blame people trying to find similarities when they share the massive levels of suck that is also uncanny.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:31
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The Taint Reaper posted:Man lots of people are still angry about having to go to Sunday School and missing their morning cartoons. Numbers 15:32-36King James Version (KJV) 32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. 35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. Those who work on Saturday should be stoned to death according to the LORD. God is Love!
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Aug 24, 2014 03:32
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Miltank posted:theism is not the belief system of anything though so that is a lovely deflection. it's not a lovely deflection. you say the USSR is the result of atheism, and I say no, the USSR is the result of Marxism. you're arguing that without atheism, there would be no USSR, and I'm saying you're flat out wrong on that point.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:32
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Moridin920 posted:if you can't tell the difference between the motivations of the Inquisition vs the motivations of the Soviet purges, I don't know what to tell you. There weren't any. The Inquisition, depending on which one you are talking about, was either a tool of the status quo to maintain order and keep the rabble from flipping the gently caress out, or if you go with the non-Church ones it was an excuse to oppress Jews and other undesirables by the secular authority. Either way, religion wasn't the main motivating factor of *any* inquisitorial group. It was secular stability, not rule of canon law. Which...how is that functionally different than the purges of the communists? Because the party isn't a religious group? It's still a group trying to maintain it's power and control by oppressing others. It's not like communists don't preach a moral component to the collectivist movement they are all a part of. Is it the removal of souls and an afterlife that makes it so different to you? quote:Stalin never wrote a book that was the equivalent of the Malleus Maleficarum, for one thing. "Well at least he didn't write a book, God  ". Especially about a book the Church condemned almost instantly, what sort of argument is that? Like beyond saying "This is immoral and illegal and really has nothing to do with our teachings", which they did, what more could the church do to come out against that? But that makes religion worse, because Stalin never wrote a book.quote:All the Abrahamic religions preach destruction of infidels and heretics as a rule. Which rule is that? quote:Being Christian doesn't make you a pedophile, but it does make you a bigot imo You clearly don't know you are talking about in previous points, yet you are dismissing a wide swath of people out of hand based on them so.....what does that make you other than a bigot?
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Aug 24, 2014 03:33
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everybody at my church was lovely, but there were free donuts so it was worth it.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:34
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atheism is not an ideology. it's an ideological vacuum. hth it can also be a descriptor, but whenever i hear someone say "i'm an atheist", i don't consider them to be saying anything at all about their belief structure yet.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:36
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Miltank posted:atheism is coincidentally the believe system of USSR and really all those atrocities would have happened anyway, but ___________ was a uniquely Christian phenomenon that wouldn't have happened under an atheist regime. Atheism is not a belief system you dumb rear end hole. It's the rejection of any positive claims about god. There are any number of belief systems that are atheist because they include rejecting the god belief. But atheism itself isn't a set of beliefs, it's just the rejection of one belief. If you can't tell the difference between atheism and a religion you are never going to understand what atheism is. Here's my favorite: Matthew 11:21-24King James Version (KJV) 21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. Jesus condemns 3 entire cities to hell (including children) because the people that lived there weren't impressed enough with his stunts. That's amazing. So, the bad parts of the bible are only in the old testament, right??
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Aug 24, 2014 03:36
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Kanthulhu posted:
Weed doesn't kill duder. Pretty sure they was just exaggerating.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:36
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Moridin920 posted:it's not a lovely deflection. you say the USSR is the result of atheism, and I say no, the USSR is the result of Marxism. you jumped in when I was making fun of someone for saying that the Catholic church's abuse of children was because Christianity is bad. Do you even understand what is happening here or what? e:how you gonna get stoned to death? poo poo man you just fall asleep first haha
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Aug 24, 2014 03:37
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Boogaleeboo posted:Especially about a book the Church condemned almost instantly, what sort of argument is that? lol yeah almost instantly too bad for everyone in that in between period during the Spanish Inquisition  Boogaleeboo posted:Which rule is that? I already quoted two regarding Jesus' teachings, would you like additional sources from the Torah and the Qur'an? They aren't peaceful religions. It is known. Boogaleeboo posted:You clearly don't know you are talking about in previous points, yet you are dismissing a wide swath of people out of hand based on them so.....what does that make you other than a bigot? I'm dismissing a wide swath of people based on the fact that they think white Europeans were made in God's image and other cultures are wrong. Miltank posted:you jumped in when I was making fun of someone for saying that the Catholic church's abuse of children was because Christianity is bad. Do you even understand what is happening here or what? Maybe not. I just think it's disingenuous to equate atheism and Abrahamic religions because the former is the absence of belief and the latter has a whole dogma and pony show associated with it that makes people do shithouse crazy things.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:37
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atheism is so a belief system
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Aug 24, 2014 03:37
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lfield posted:atheism is so a belief system from which no actions can be taken. nothing changes by saying "i don't believe in god". what do you do differently? an atheist *doesn't* do what a theist does, but he isn't doing anything instead of it. more needs to be said in order to describe someone's beliefs and principles.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:39
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Moridin920 posted:
Sofar not even anime can match the superiority of Dr.Who, so those people are pretty much correct about other cultures being inferior.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:42
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Kanthulhu posted:But atheism itself isn't a set of beliefs, it's just the rejection of one belief. Which in and of itself is a statement of belief. Belief is tied up with spiritual terminology a lot, but at the end of the day it's just "What you believe to be true". If you say "I don't think there is a god" or even "I don't know if there is or isn't a god", that's a belief. It's not a belief system, a codified and regimented overarching process of belief. It's still a belief. Words have meanings that don't go away just because they conflict with your social leanings.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:43
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Miltank posted:because belief in God was replaced by idealization of the state/progress of history/the mythic common man which provided the justifications for hundreds of thousands of deaths. Idealization isn't a requirement of being an atheist, you tard, nor is Christianity mine from it. Just look at a theocracy.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:43
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Moridin920 posted:Maybe not. I just think it's disingenuous to equate atheism and Abrahamic religions because the former is the absence of belief and the latter has a whole dogma and pony show associated with it that makes people do shithouse crazy things. Kanthulhu posted:Atheism is not a belief system you dumb rear end hole. It's the rejection of any positive claims about god. There are any number of belief systems that are atheist because they include rejecting the god belief. But atheism itself isn't a set of beliefs, it's just the rejection of one belief. yeah that is the problem actually atheists don't have a believe system way to go you figured it out.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:43
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Who What Now posted:Idealization isn't a requirement of being an atheist, you tard, nor is Christianity mine from it. Just look at a theocracy. so you are saying that humans can construct worldly gods and that anyone can become idolatrous? interesting concept hmmm yes
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Aug 24, 2014 03:45
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