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meristem posted:
Absolutely agree. Loved all the character building and setup, then it suddenly turned into a bland-as-hell slasher. Such a shame, and a waste of a great premise. When the kids were stealth-researching, I thought that was going to be the payoff, with the family trying to organise without tipping him off, wish they'd taken that route.
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Nov 23, 2014 14:23
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I think it would have been enough for me if, I dunno, someone shot through a wall or a mirror at some point. seeing them take the artificial limits in all seriousness after the whole house was torn into shreds just moments before was weird.Penpal posted:Also, I wonder if the killing of the family causes David real remorse. Or if he's experiencing it. Before every family death, he's apologizing and maintaining a pleasant demeanor - "I'm so sorry" *jabs mom* - Looks incredibly annoyed that the car crash DIDN'T kill the father, and apologizes before shooting him - Catches up to the kids, but when they best him, he says "Hey, you did what you had to do" *thumbs up* Really, a really fun movie, though.
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Nov 23, 2014 15:48
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meristem posted:I think that, in the case of the family, it's just the persona talking. Like, if you do something bad, you're supposed to apologise, yes? Yeah I don't think he "feels" remorse, it's more like he recognizes if he took an innocent life because he "had to" because of his programming. So when he kills Caleb's parents it's more like he just regrets taking the lives of nice people, but he doesn't feel any remorse over it. As for the ending, I think David wouldn't really bother going after the kids when he escapes. He has a back-up plan of a plastic surgeon, and I think he's just going to get the surgery and disappear as someone else completely. Although that would raise the question of why he would bother trying to kill the family "due to his programming" when he had another out. Maybe he just reasonably assumed that the kids wouldn't have any leverage against him since they can't really prove he's still alive, and most of the people involved with the Program are dead.
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Nov 23, 2014 17:22
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King Vidiot posted:Also the entire theory that David is homosexual takes away from the fact that he's just a mechanical, asexual killing machine. David's sex appeal, if used at all, is always a deflection or means of attaining an end. The one time he actually has sex it seems like it's only done because it's expected of him. He knocks the hell out of Anna's friend's ex, so of course he has "victory sex" with the friend. It may have also just been a way to appear normal and get closer to Anna's circle of friends. Him being homosexual would actually humanize him, and make him more sympathetic. So I don't really think that's right. He's just a mechanized killer who got everything, including his sexuality, trained out of him. Similarities to Captain America right there.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:05
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Agent Broyles says at one point though about David "He wouldn't be able to stop himself, even if he wanted too", and David does go out of his way to help the family earlier. There's just so much of David's motivations I'm still curious about. For example, it doesn't seem like David is the type of personality to drag out a murder, he usually has the killing blow coiled like a spring and just calmly waits for it to set off. Which really makes me wonder about Spencer's boss. The report says that the wife was brutally beaten, which doesn't sound like something David would do. I really would like to see a sequel with more David, anti-hero/hero/villain. Doesn't matter. The actor has the character so well realized. Also the alternate trailer is essentially a distillation of the entire movie. Good to watch after seeing the movie. I really want more people to see this.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:14
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I watched this film yesterday and really enjoyed it a lot. It's campy and silly yes, but I think the film perfectly toes the camp line without going too far. It hits this really sweet spot of taking itself seriously and being completely ridiculous that just worked me be. Decent performances all around, but my god Dan Stevens totally owned this role. Also, for an Englishman I think he does a very decent American accent. This film isn't perfect, as the plot is slightly predictable and has a few holes, but there were just too many amazing scenes in this film that I'm willing to forgive its few problems. One plot area that did bother me a lot was the whole crux of the script is that David was helping out the Petersons because of some sort of debt he owes to Caleb. I was very curious to know more about this, but unfortunately I don't think that the script justifies why David would stick his neck out so much and put himself in such risk for Caleb, when we know nothing about their relationship. There is some vague explanation that they served together and David made a promise blah blah, but I felt this part of the plot was a bit underdeveloped, which is a shame because it's sort of important for driving a lot of the action of the film. I agree with Penpal that I think clarifying David's motivations would have helped a lot.
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Nov 24, 2014 03:50
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electricsugar posted:One plot area that did bother me a lot was the whole crux of the script is that David was helping out the Petersons because of some sort of debt he owes to Caleb. I was very curious to know more about this, but unfortunately I don't think that the script justifies why David would stick his neck out so much and put himself in such risk for Caleb, when we know nothing about their relationship. There is some vague explanation that they served together and David made a promise blah blah, but I felt this part of the plot was a bit underdeveloped, which is a shame because it's sort of important for driving a lot of the action of the film. There's a complete soundtrack playlist in Spotify (a couple, actually) if anyone's interested.
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Nov 24, 2014 04:01
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Holy gently caress, you really are bent on humanising him. Sociopaths aren't really famous for long-term thinking or having stable life plans. I assumed it was something like Caleb asking him offhandedly in a free moment, David replying "yeah, sure, I will" without really thinking, just because that's the sort of thing you reply to your bro, and then remembering the exchange after the fire and deciding that, why not, seems like a great idea! It's like... have you never met a real-life psychopath? 'Shits and giggles' is a viable motivation. So is 'why not?'
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Nov 24, 2014 07:53
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How am I bent on humanizing him? Maybe I wasn't clear but I was talking about his motivations from the point of view of the viewer who (at first) doesn't know he's a psycho. And no, I'm lucky that I haven't met a psychopath and don't really plan on doing that any time soon. If you have met enough so that you know their "viable motivations" I would suggest re-examining some poo poo. Unless you are like, a lawyer or a high level executive, then that makes sense.
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Nov 24, 2014 09:41
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Gonna take a break from all the humanizing/etc chat and say that holy gently caress this is a good song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p-48xThhvE
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Nov 24, 2014 10:23
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Just watched this. Pretty solid for the first 2/3's but fell apart near the end. It's as if the writer had no idea where he wanted to go with the story and just said "gently caress it, he's a super soldier" and gave no solid explanation for any of it.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:06
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xzoto1 posted:Just watched this. Pretty solid for the first 2/3's but fell apart near the end. It's as if the writer had no idea where he wanted to go with the story and just said "gently caress it, he's a super soldier" and gave no solid explanation for any of it. Really? In the first few minutes he's set up as being off and he demonstrates that he's super soldier-y pretty early on. And they gave about as much of an explanation as I'd care to hear.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:09
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LesterGroans posted:Really? In the first few minutes he's set up as being off and he demonstrates that he's super soldier-y pretty early on. And they gave about as much of an explanation as I'd care to hear. There's some obvious inclination but we never formally "know" until the near end. The whole film revolved around him being some sort of experiment but it never delves into any details at all. I mean, if this movie is about a killing machine, the story should be about it and not about some guy who lands on the doorstep of some strangers. It's like the whole cyborg thing was a side-story and living with the parents of a fallen soldier was its focal point. This could have worked if we knew the motivation but the moment he kills the family and the super soldier part comes out, I was left with a big "what the gently caress?" xzoto1 fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Nov 24, 2014 |
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Nov 24, 2014 21:15
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xzoto1 posted:It's like the whole cyborg thing was a side-story and living with the parents of a fallen soldier was its focal point. Because there aren't a million movies about killer cyborgs doing killer cyborg stuff already? This is essentially a movie about a killer cyborg being put into a fish-out-of-water situation and is more interesting for it. If that's not your taste, fine, but don't blame the movie for subverting a done-to-death concept.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:25
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flashy_mcflash posted:Because there aren't a million movies about killer cyborgs doing killer cyborg stuff already? This is essentially a movie about a killer cyborg being put into a fish-out-of-water situation and is more interesting for it. If that's not your taste, fine, but don't blame the movie for subverting a done-to-death concept. The problem with this is the fact that him living with the family was never explained either. He made a promise with Kaleb and that's literally all we know. Whichever way you spin it, there was no explanation for anything. This movie didn't rely on being subtle, it's just written very poorly. xzoto1 fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Nov 24, 2014 |
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Nov 24, 2014 21:27
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xzoto1 posted:The problem with this is the fact that him living with the family was never explained either. He made a promise with Kaleb and that's literally all we know. Whichever way you spin it, there was no explanation for anything. This movie didn't rely on being subtle, it's just written very poorly. I dunno, I didn't need an explanation more than what was given. He knew Caleb, said he'd help his family, which he did in his own way. Then the programming took over and he regrettably had to tie up loose ends.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:33
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LesterGroans posted:I dunno, I didn't need an explanation more than what was given. He knew Caleb, said he'd help his family, which he did in his own way. Then the programming took over and he regrettably had to tie up loose ends. I guess that's where the movie fell flat for me. I wanted details and the story fleshed out more but rather taking it for face value, I just expected more and was disappointed.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:38
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xzoto1 posted:I guess that's where the movie fell flat for me. I wanted details and the story fleshed out more but rather taking it for face value, I just expected more and was disappointed. That's fair. You're not alone, I watch it with someone who wanted more details about the organization/David's relationship with Caleb. It was just enough for me as-is.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:42
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xzoto1 posted:I guess that's where the movie fell flat for me. I wanted details and the story fleshed out more but rather taking it for face value, I just expected more and was disappointed. Maybe it's just me, but I like it more because it's never explained. A lot of movies like this explain (or attempt to explain) things so thoroughly that reviews or discussion of the film are bogged down with tactical realism and poking holes in the story, where this just gives you the concept and asks you to accept it on its face. Horror movies are scarier to me when violence happens in a completely senseless way, and the fact that you're not really given much or any insight into what made David into this capable, merciless killer makes him more effective as a character. In an action or horror movie, the backstory is almost never satisfying anyhow so I like that they dispense with it altogether.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:50
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xzoto1 posted:I guess that's where the movie fell flat for me. I wanted details and the story fleshed out more but rather taking it for face value, I just expected more and was disappointed. Watch Universal Soldier. This sounds like an insult kinda, I realize; it's not. The sequels are all really good too.
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Nov 24, 2014 22:13
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t's one of the recurring things with all media opinions, some people relish ambiguity, some people see it as a cop-out. As long as everyone agrees to get along and not be all judgey then we're all good.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:57
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weekly font posted:Watch Universal Soldier. I saw part of Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning on t.v not too long ago. It's so drat violent and shot very well. I feel like I need to watch it in its entirety.
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Nov 25, 2014 00:45
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flashy_mcflash posted:Maybe it's just me, but I like it more because it's never explained. A lot of movies like this explain (or attempt to explain) things so thoroughly that reviews or discussion of the film are bogged down with tactical realism and poking holes in the story, where this just gives you the concept and asks you to accept it on its face. Horror movies are scarier to me when violence happens in a completely senseless way, and the fact that you're not really given much or any insight into what made David into this capable, merciless killer makes him more effective as a character. Yeah, I hear ya. I can see why a lot of people like it.
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Nov 25, 2014 00:46
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xzoto1 posted:I guess that's where the movie fell flat for me. I wanted details and the story fleshed out more but rather taking it for face value, I just expected more and was disappointed. From the leaked script from what I recall: In the aftermath of the Iraq War, Rumsfeld and co established a secret program to create the ultimate infiltrating soldier squad. Caleb, David, and several others were recruited out of the army into the program. It involved intensive gene and shock therapy using retrovirus and enhanced stemcell injections. Their brains were re-wired and programmed using a direct neural interface and planned to erase their personalities to be used as a blank slate. They could no sooner fight their own programming as it is their brain now. There was a problem when one of the soldiers went crazy and killed all the scientists so they tried to shutdown and flush the program. Caleb and David tried to escape but Caleb sacrificed himself so David could escape but promised to watch out for his family if they ever came knocking and to make sure they're see'd to. Que: start of movie. Does that help? of course not, its made up poo poo because anything they tried to do would have just been bad. It's like if they tried to explain and show Jaws or show the backstory to the driver in Duel
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Nov 25, 2014 00:46
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xzoto1 posted:The problem with this is the fact that him living with the family was never explained either. He made a promise with Kaleb and that's literally all we know. Whichever way you spin it, there was no explanation for anything. This movie didn't rely on being subtle, it's just written very poorly. You state the explanation, then says it doesn't exist. The fact that it didn't spell everything out, but that you wanted to know more is not a bad thing. Many would identify it as a sign that the movie is good.
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Nov 25, 2014 03:06
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Snowman_McK posted:You state the explanation, then says it doesn't exist. The fact that it didn't spell everything out, but that you wanted to know more is not a bad thing. Many would identify it as a sign that the movie is good. Making a promise, one we never really know about, isn't an explanation. Like I said, it's a movie that I wanted to be fleshed out more. To each their own.
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Nov 25, 2014 05:54
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xzoto1 posted:I was left with a big "what the gently caress?"
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Nov 25, 2014 13:41
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xzoto1 posted:Making a promise, one we never really know about, isn't an explanation. It's an explanation but not necessarily the explanation. We can choose to accept David's story or not, which makes this a slightly different movie for you depending on what you choose. This is the same in any movie, really.
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Nov 25, 2014 14:59
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I saw this yesterday. I don't have a lot to say about it, but I liked it. It has a fairly unique style and tone, plus the idea of making you like someone early in a movie then gradually pulling it out from under you going "Oh, you like this guy? Sorry, he's actually a huge piece of poo poo" is super effective. I actually felt wrong and bad throughout the third act. That's an achievement. I'm sure other movies have done something similar, but this particular movie does it extremely well. edit: I suppose that was kind of a spoiler.
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Nov 25, 2014 19:04
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Holy poo poo so mouth watering good.
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Nov 25, 2014 23:37
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someone said something about one of the scenes and I think I could clear this up: When david kill the guy so the father would get a promotion he beat the wife to make it look like the guy did it and then killed himself. It was just the best way to get the situation staged. A true psychopath doesnt care but I never thought david went out of his was to cause pain for pains sake. Destroying that kids ankle was the best way to ensure he doesnt keep fighting and so on. To take it one step further what if the ending was all set up by david? He stabs the sister to enrage the brother and get him to stab him... "im proud of you" ...fake death... What does david care? Hes dead and can move on and the kids are in arguably a better place. maybe I should ask Simon? You guys give me 3 questions to ask simon and I'll see if he will take a stab at answering them. Not guaranteeing anything but it could be fun. Or not. Whatever.
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Nov 25, 2014 23:58
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Everyone seems to be having a wank about this film, id give it 3/5. I watched it tonight, it was a crappy Drive, way less cool. Dont get me wrong its pretty good, but im suprised by the first page's 'oh my god this is the greatest thing evar!!' posts. Its good, it aint that good.
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Nov 26, 2014 04:02
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Seaside Loafer posted:Everyone seems to be having a wank about this film, id give it 3/5. I watched it tonight, it was a crappy Drive, way less cool. Oh okay.
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Nov 26, 2014 04:23
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Seaside Loafer posted:Everyone seems to be having a wank about this film, id give it 3/5. I watched it tonight, it was a crappy Drive, way less cool. This changes everything
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Nov 26, 2014 09:33
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What if the brother used a trick knife to stab David? That's totally something a rec center would have at a Halloween dance, and it would explain the "you did the right thing," overly theatrical death, and him still being alive. It was also foreshadowed with David and him being "friends" and David never really doing anything bad to him until the very end.
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Nov 26, 2014 09:39
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Seaside Loafer posted:Everyone seems to be having a wank about this film, id give it 3/5. I watched it tonight, it was a crappy Drive, way less cool. Actually the movie was in fact amazing. Sorry for the confusion.
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Nov 26, 2014 14:02
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Sorry you guys feel this way, but it just wasnt that good  Blame it PMS if you like, maybe i'll try again.Alright the halloween room bit was pretty cool, i'll give it that.
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Nov 26, 2014 14:07
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If you don't like the movie, please elaborate on why, just saying "It was bad" is pointless. The inverse is also probably true, but I really liked the movie so I don't mind when people say that.
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Nov 26, 2014 15:17
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Hat Thoughts posted:If you don't like the movie, please elaborate on why, just saying "It was bad" is pointless. The inverse is also probably true, but I really liked the movie so I don't mind when people say that.
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Nov 26, 2014 16:04
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Seaside Loafer posted:Everyone seems to be having a wank about this film, id give it 3/5. I watched it tonight, it was a crappy Drive, way less cool. I thought the same thing, actually. It doesn't help that the last actiony-type movie I've watched at all recently was Drive itself V  V I guess if I'd seen all the movies people compare The Guest to or say it was inspired by, I would have gotten into it more. That said I did like it. Dan Stevens and the soundtrack were fantastic. My main problem was that I couldn't tell if the movie was deliberately being goofy or not, partly because I kept comparing it to Drive, and partly because I thought the dialogue and acting from the supporting cast were pretty weak at times. But the climax/thumbs up basically cleared up for me any misconceptions about what kind of movie it was. I've rewatched it since and enjoyed it a lot more.
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Nov 26, 2014 16:22
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