Crawl 0.15: Terrifying, Ever-Gnashing Radulae

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.15: Terrifying, Ever-Gnashing Radulae

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

What is Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup?
Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup is a popular, free roguelike game focusing on tactics, balance, variety and a lasting challenge. A roguelike is generally a turn-based RPG, with an emphasis on randomly generated worlds, a high depth of play, huge menageries of monsters, and some MacGuffin you have to dig up and escape with. Most roguelikes use ASCII characters for graphics, though an increasing number utilize graphical tiles, like Crawl. Roguelikes are usually very tough to beat, and death is often permanent: once you're dead, you're dead.

Crawl is unique in its design philosophy, with a focus on eliminating a lot of the annoyances of the genre, while focusing on the strengths.

Major design goals:

challenging and unpredictable gameplay, with an emphasis on tactical skill
meaningful decisions (no no-brainer, works-every-time-with-every-character play choices)
grinding should be unnecessary, even discouraged
a simplified and elegant interface, with a helpful tutorial and mouse support for new players

Minor design goals:

clarity of design (playable without the need for external spoilers)
thematic consistency (no lightsaber-wielding orcs)
replayability and lasting challenge (with optional branches, multiple race/background/god choices, and optional challenges)
proper use of out-of-depth monsters

This culminates in an accessible roguelike with a compelling play experience, with tough but fair challenges, and the tools to win under your own steam. When you do die (and you will), the cause is usually clear (if not completely preventable), as well as how you can overcome it the next time around.

What's new in 0.15?

New god! Qazlal, God of Extremely Loud Elemental Destruction.
Ranged combat has been completely reworked, and is now comprehensible by mortal minds. (It works just like melee now.) A set of new ranged weapons have been added to round things out.
Inventory weight limits: gone.
Item destruction: gone.
Permanent equipment corrosion: gone. (Replaced by a temporary corrosion effect that's much more dangerous!)
Also, many spells were reworked, many bad monsters were removed, new monsters, new unrands, and probably more things I�ve forgotten!

Screenshots!
WebTiles (on CSZO):

ASCII (again on CSZO):

Android Tiles! (yes, there's an official Android tiles version now)

How do I play Crawl?
You can download the offline builds here. The offline versions of Crawl are available in ASCII and graphical tiles formats for Windows, Mac OS X, Debian/Ubuntu, and there is also a (new!) official Android Tiles port. The development builds (Android port is located here) can also be downloaded which allow you to play the most recent experimental beta releases and test out the new additions being considered for the next stable release.

However, one of Crawl's biggest selling points is the ability to play online through various methods - read on!

Why and how to play online
If you use either an SSH client or the WebTiles interface, you can connect to one of the Crawl servers and play along with dozens of other people, or watch those who are playing. Here are some of the perks of online play:

People can spectate as you play, and with WebTiles' integrated chat window, spectators can now talk amongst themselves as well as with the game player
Your game saves and play statistics are tracked centrally and are available from any computer
Every game you play is recorded by the server, and can be replayed in whole or in part, or otherwise examined for later analysis, bragging, and mockery
You get to meet and fight the ghosts of other players, rather than just your own
You can play in the annual and version-release tournaments

Purists can play or spectate via console (see sections 'The Servers' and 'The Software'), while for those who like the graphical interface, various servers offer WebTiles functionality - a web interface which mimicks the offline Tiles build, and even has an integrated chat window for the player and spectators to talk in.

Places to play Crawl online
CAO: crawl.akrasiac.org - long-serving Crawl server located in Tucson, Arizona. Offers console and WebTiles. The website which tracks player wins and statistics is now back online at crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring
CDO: crawl.develz.org - Germany-based server for the Europeans among us, supports console only.
CSZO: crawl.s-z.org - Pennsylvania-based server, supports console and WebTiles as well as cross-interface spectating and chat. The most popular server among online players at present.
CLAN: European (German) server - MAINTAINED BY GOON TZer0 (Give him props, he rules.)

If you play online, you can see information about your games at http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/<yourname>.html - e.g. http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/zermako.html . It's neat!

:siren:

There are a couple of new servers! :siren:

CBRO: crawl.beRotato.org Georgia, US.
CKR: kr.dobrazupa.org Korea. Webtiles-only.

This game is very hard. Where can I get help?
In keeping with roguelike tradition, Crawl is indeed an excruciatingly difficult game at times. Fortunately, there are many resources available to assist you (some considerably more reliable than others!):

##crawl - the official Dungeon Crawl IRC channel. Has a pair of bots (Sequell and Cheiabrios) that can be queried for up-to-date info on monsters & other crawl info.
##gooncrawl - the SA Crawl IRC channel.
LearnDB - a searchable repository of Crawl lore. Almost always up to date & accurate, but sometimes its terseness does it no favors.
The Tavern - the official Dungeon Crawl forum. Not a very good place to go for help, but still better than...
~~CrawlWiki~~ - community-maintained, notoriously out-of-date and of highly variable quality. Do not assume anything you read here is true or that any advice is sound.

Beyond learning the basic mechanics of the game, probably the best way to improve is to talk about and play the game online. Online play allows other people to give you pointers on mistakes you may be making without realising, and there are usually friendly goons around in IRC who will be happy to advise you.

You can also check out the LP thread, which has writeups of completed games (won & lost) to learn from.

Threads from previous versions

Crawl 0.14: You feel energized by your suffering!
Crawl 0.13: FoIE GrAs: You are engorged.
Crawl 0.12 Erolcha banished me and gave me apocalypse crabs
Crawl 0.11 Eight legs and it's not an Octopode: Welcome to Spider
Crawl 0.10: Your tentacles turn into razor-sharp scythe blades
Crawl 0.9: A meow rips itself from your throat
Crawl 0.8: Mennas II Society
Crawl 0.7: The Dying Game
Crawl 0.6: Slouching towards The Abyss
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 0.5.0: Now with less Oklob!
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 0.4.0
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 0.3.0

PleasingFungus fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Sep 29, 2014

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 05:39

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:38

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

kaschei posted:

We hardly had time to come up with dumb thread names at all!

It's hosed up as hell, and I apologize. I felt rushed by the early release! (Arguably this makes no sense.)

Internet Kraken posted:

I think its from the torpor snail description.

Yep!

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 05:55

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

UncertainKitten posted:

LP thread link in the OP is the first thread. The new thread is here.

Fixed, thanks!

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 07:09

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

apple posted:

Speaking of Ever-Gnashing Radulae, being a cheibro + statue form + torpor snail has you moving 1 space every 4 auts or something.

44 aut, yep. It could be worse, though. If you're in statue form, max chei piety, statue form, slowed, flash-frozen (antaeus, chaos champions), being grasped at by roots (shambling mangrove), and moving through water, it can take (empirically) 119 aut - just shy of 12 normal turns - to take a single step!

But that's silly.

scalded schlong posted:

Also:

I've climbed upstairs to level 8 to check out bits of the floor I can't have explored yet - the level has two discrete bits, all the upstairs to level 7 are in one bit. This is me exploring the other.

Climbing up has taken me 2.3 turns, as a centaur. I thought these turns were taken on the level I entered the stairs, level 8, but this ogre's just been woken up by Qazlal's tempest and has clonked me one. Has he just gotten a lucky double-turn, did my noise trigger at the end of my 2.3 turn climb and immediately allow him to spend his turn attacking, or have I spent 2.3 turns standing at the top of the stairs on level 7?

i don't know how stairs work

Stairs posted:

Taking the stairs has two parts. The 'leaving' is implemented as a 'delay' - you take a 5 melee EV penalty during it and it can be interrupted. It lasts 1.0 turns. The 'entering' lasts 0.66 turns (if you've never been here before) or 1.33 turns (if you have) and is simply waited out on the other side. Haste/slow will change these durations.

This confuses everyone! Not ideal.

PleasingFungus fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Aug 28, 2014

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 16:01

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Davzz posted:

Can someone give me the details on Beogh gifting equipment to follower Orcs? I seen him give shields and stuff. Does he also upgrade equipment that you give to your followers using the final power?

He does, yes! (Except for artefacts, which are un-upgradeable.)

Internet Kraken posted:

Those new spider tiles look terrible and should be changed back to the old ones, which look fine. I have no idea why they were replaced.

Actually, the new spider tiles are extremely good, and the only pity is that the trapdoor spider now doesn't match.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 17:26

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

silentsnack posted:

Double Statue Form. Go high-five Roxanne. Forever.

Where would Gastronok's hat and the Swiftness Kinda Sucks Now debuff fit in there?
Good to see everyone is RC'd up and ready to lose. Did we ever agree on a new name?

Ponderous armour (gastronok's hat and/or the Black Knight's Barding) would add another few aut, I think. I did test -swift, but it doesn't work in water (both + and - swift), which I hadn't known. Possibly -swift and leda's liquefaction together would provide more slow than moving through water? Important questions.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 20:59

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Arrhythmia posted:

Don't forget that plate armour can spawn with the ponderous brand.

scalded schlong posted:

Doesn't that merge with statue form?

Yep!

No idea about bardings, which is why I included the Black Knight's in the list.

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 21:22

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Dee Ehm posted:

If I'm playing as an OpTm, does my tentacle-spike from Beastly Appendage count as a short blade for stabbing purposes? If not, it should.

What about blade hands too?

Nope to both, sorry!

# ¿ Aug 28, 2014 23:02

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

# ¿ Aug 29, 2014 18:27

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Sage Grimm posted:

Bug: Can not start game

Bug: No way of resting for better survival
(Or alternatively, if no rest for the wicked)
Bug: If danger HP set, can soft-lock game

Guess these can be solved by being a tile player.

bug: no way to use stairs

Jeffrey posted:

I assume they have autobutcher in their rcfile.

It is a travesty for that photo to have the mouse in it though.

the guy I stole this from posted:

Today, 15:53
Dear Sir, i'm a loving tiler, but no way i am a loving tile clicker. I just need my mouse to do things before tournament actually starts.

presumably he wrote that with the on-screen keyboard

# ¿ Aug 29, 2014 19:31

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Jeffrey posted:

I definitely wish there were a better way to show monster weapons in ascii but what can you do?

As of 0.15, you can use ctrl-t to toggle between monster glyphs & the weapons they're holding. (In console.)

Still not nearly as good as tiles, of course, but might be an improvement for console players? Probably less tedious than x-ing everything.

Arrhythmia posted:

Webtiles has this, but offline tiles doesn't. Why? Who knows!

I believe you can toggle offline tiles to display a list of monsters;

It's the little devil face midway down the icons left of the inventory, iirc.

Weird UI.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2014 20:07

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Sage Grimm posted:

Well, a really good VsGl gone because I thought jaunting through Vaults:5 was a brilliant idea instead of sneaking through Abyss for the third rune. I'm letting down my team name, clearly.

Waltzing through V:5 worked out pretty well for me.

(Turns out a +9 vampiric lajatang is a very good weapon for a vine stalker. Or anyone, really.)

Played this game in a pretty big rush (trying, and succeeding, to be the first to win the nemelex's choice), so I don't have too much to say. It's fun to play a 3-rune character that can take on three oofs at once, and win, resoundingly?

Ponderhat is great?

Yep. Ponderhat is great.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 06:01

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

Yet another stupid game with no rMut, and this includes 15 levels of Zig. I was going to 15-rune this dude, but it wouldn't be the first time I get severely bitch-slapped by a lack of rMut and end up dropping a character. 3 runes it is :S.

You absolutely do not need rMut to get 15 runes. All characters, if played well, can avoid the vast majority of malmutations; you're a conjurer, so you're in pretty much no danger at all.

I'm not sure I'd recommend playing for 15 runes, since extended is not all that fun, but rMut is not really the consideration here.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 07:15

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Brannock posted:

I'm seeing an unreal amount of OOD monsters in 0.15 release that I don't ever remember seeing in 0.15 trunk and I played a lot of 0.15 trunk this summer.

For instance, a cyclops on D:10 (who died on two reflected large rocks )

A d:10 cyclops is only one floor out-of-depth, to be fair. (They normally start spawning on d:11.)

hito posted:

This is not good news for my .15 DgWn Slingmaster, though. Maybe I'll just go for three runes

EDIT: Speaking of Slingmaster, here's a question.I have 17 slings and no other weapon skills. Brand Weapon + a greatsling cost about as much as a scroll of Acquirement for me. Does my single-minded sling focus mean I'm likely to get a nice strong Greatsling with Acquirement? Or is it still smarter to go for the sure thing, even though it'll be weaker and I'll have to enchant it?

Acquirement is extremely unreliable. I'd go with the greatsling. Your call, though!

(I'd also probably start investing in other skills; raising skills past mindelay gives a pretty poor reward on investment, with most weapons.)

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 18:40

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Arrhythmia posted:

Hit E while playing to see your turn-count.

Or %!

# ¿ Aug 31, 2014 00:39

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Kekekela posted:

I meant that the thing you mentioned about no features being added for a few weeks prior was not usually the case. (although for this tournament you are correct, nothing interesting is in trunk that's not in 0.15) Usually some cool stuff gets added right away that you miss out on when you switch back to the prior version for the tourney.

There's always development on trunk, I don't know of it ever having been put on hold during the tournament. Even this year, there is plenty of bug-fixing, code cleanup etc going on.

There's also a lot of development going on in branches this year; lots of features poised to go in to trunk the moment the tournament ends. (Mostly changes to Extended, for some reason.)

The idea is to simplify fixes for bugs found during the tournament, and also encourage people to play in the tournament. Seems to be going okay so far, but the real test comes when half a dozen devs try to merge in their changes all at once, the moment the tournament ends. Excitement will surely ensue!

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 00:17

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Read posted:

Can you elaborate on this? I've seen some discussion but not followed it too closely.

Oh, there's various things. Improvements to the Serpent of Hell and Mnoleg to make them more dangerous, and a bunch of stuff in Tomb - new monsters, replacements for monsters, tweaks to monster spell sets, that kind of thing. Pretty ambitious, so idk how much of this will actually make it in-game, but the stuff I saw looked promising.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 00:57

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Tollymain posted:

what if the more runes you have the harder zot ends up being when you open the door? basically to make zot still feel formidable for extended games. maybe a score bonus for how many runes you had when you opened the gate?

This would only work if you couldn't leave Zot without grabbing the Orb.

Not an objection, just an observation.

Also, you might want to check out "crawl light", which tries some similar things w.r.t scaling late-game difficulty for extended characters. (Among other innovations.)

Internet Kraken posted:

Why does the serpent of hell exist? It doesn't seem remotely threatening. I almost didn't even noticed I killed it just now because I was just mashing tab and it died in two hits.

#0.16_anticipation_reasons :unsmigghh:

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 05:47

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

scalded schlong posted:

I'd like to see disortion banish you for a set number of turns depending on how badly you were hit. Get scraped by a kobold on D1, you've got to survive 200 turns at A1 before being yanked back to reality with some glow. Get blatted by a flying executioner's axe of distortion, have fun in A5!

Sure, this encourages you to hang out resting, but so what, something's going to stumble over you soon enough.

It's been suggested before; as you noted, it strongly encourages hiding in a hole rather than running around desperately looking for an exit, which I personally find to be a deal-breaker.

Davzz posted:

Weren't they removed/junked quite a long time ago?

Several months ago, yes!

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 15:59

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

kaschei posted:

3. "of Electrocution" brand does not make any extra noise. In 0.14 and earlier it made big noise if it went off on something in water but now it now longer does anything special in water, and it never made noise outside water.

Wellll. Technically, electric-branded weapons make significantly more noise when hitting things (whether or not the actual electrical effect activates!), capping out at the same noise as a shout. (All melee attacks make noise, based on the amount of damage done & the type of weapon being used. All melee attacks also have a very, very tiny hunger cost associated. Crawl facts!)

That said, I'm not actually sure how devastating, or the Noisy effect, is. Enchanters generally rely on creating their own opportunities for stabs (through hibernation, confusion, etc), rather than "found" stabs, so I wouldn't think noise would be that bad for them?

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 23:09

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Brannock posted:

An ossuary can give you enough scrolls/potions to very reliably get you through Lair and has enemies that are actually worth significant amounts of XP. Of all the portal vaults I put ossuary below only labyrinth in priority, especially considering when it typically shows up.

I'd really like to see more portal vaults, I think they're great and an excellent change of pace from delving the Dungeon. Are any in the works right now, PF? _{_Forest...}

There are a few; people have been talking about a bailey-tier "demon pit" portal vault, for example. People have been talking about that forever, though. I don't know that there's any portal vaults coming out in the near term; maybe sometime before 0.16's release?

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 16:01

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

WereVolvo posted:

Goddamnit. I've got a rather nice SpEn on s-z, and of course the websocket connection suddenly decides to crap out on me. Once I've reconnected, trying to get back into the game only yields "Another game is already in progress using this save!" *sigh*... and I just found the moon troll leather armour, too. Am I screwed or is this something that'll sort itself out in a little while?

It should, yes. If it doesn't resolve itself within an hour or two, get on IRC, and the server admin will be able to sort things out for you.

Angry Diplomat posted:

Stop picking up potions of blood what the gently caress you're not a vampire!

you know non-vampires still get nutrition from blood potions

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 16:26

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

IronicDongz posted:

the like, roughly equal to one chunk's nutrition from potions of blood doesn't make them at all worth picking up for anything that isn't a vampire. I gotta drop stuff to make room often enough already I don't need another set of potions that eventually turns into a different stack of potions

By this argument, you'd want autopickup for chunks to be off by default.

Prism posted:

I'm not at a place I can check right now, what's the difference between control-G and shift-G for going to other floors?

They're exactly the same! Just like 'g' and ',', IIRC.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 17:10

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Davzz posted:

I swear there's an option in the rcfile to trigger that.

auto_drop_chunks, I think?

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 17:26

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Jeffrey posted:

Only if you make auto_eat_chunks also auto eat potions of blood for non-vampires. Think about it in terms of keystrokes, not nutrition.

...I won't complain if that is actually changed.

The only problem with that is that blood potions have a chance of causing Sick for non-vampires, I think. (So it'd be annoying to auto-drink it and get Sick.)

TBH, my feeling is that blood potions either shouldn't cause Sick, or shouldn't give nutrition to non-vp at all. "do I gain this nutrition... at the risk of sickness????" is not an interesting or meaningful choice.

Ferrinus posted:

Update: died to a shitload of hellions on Zig 27.

Die fast, leave a murderous ghost

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 17:53

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Jeffrey posted:

EDIT: Haha, the wiki says "Alternatively, you may wield a potion of blood to fuel a casting of Sublimation of Blood." Is that (still) true?

Tragically removed along with chunk sublimation, I believe. (Just as beef jerky simulacrula were removed when chunk simulacrula went the way of the undead dodo.)

Not My Leg posted:

E: Forgot one thing. How the hell would someone manage to get Ruthless Efficiency III. The only thing I can think of is a melee character who uses nothing but Oka gifts and evocables, otherwise you're bound to put on something lovely and cursed at some point. Even with Oka gifts you could end up putting on something lovely with Contam, but that's not quite as crippling. Also, I guess you just hope that you put on Amulet of rMut before Amulet of Inaccuracy.

When on earth would you want to wear rMut before getting your first rune? Unless you were doing something insane like abyss-diving for the rune, I guess...?

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 18:32

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

IronicDongz posted:

...no? The main reason that I don't want potions of blood is that chunks already exist and are far more plentiful. If the game contained chunks, and also bloody chunks which worked the same way but were far less common and took up a different item slot, I wouldn't want those on auto-pickup either.

chunks don't stack with each-other, either. (unless they're both from the same creature type & were butchered within ~20 turns of each-other.)

((I've been working on changing this, but the code is pretty tricky.))

LogicNinja posted:

I've found it. The Worst Vault.

It's an Abyss Vault... full of Abyssal Rune mimics.

Did you mean: the best vault

rare messages posted:

The ravenous rune mimic is pushed out of the abyssal rune of Zot.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 20:58

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Not My Leg posted:

You wouldn't but, my point was that every time you put on another amulet you risk it being your last, because it might be cursed. I suppose malmutate isn't really a risk in a three rune game until Zot, and you can probably deal with getting malmutated in Zot though without too much trouble, as long as you don't get teleportitis 3 or something.

I suppose the Ds of Makhleb is a decent idea. The Ash idea is funny, but wouldn't you eventually get excommunicated because of piety decay? I guess you could just choose to give up a slot to cursed equipment.

Ruthless Efficiency posted:

III: Find your first rune of a game without using any potions or scrolls (+25 tournament points). This rune cannot be the slimy rune: Vehumet has no patience for those who outsource the important duties of item destruction to jellies!

Once you get your first rune, you can use as many scrolls and potions as you like!

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 21:07

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Humans Among Us posted:

If you don't have rPois + rCold better watch out in the swamp and if you don't have Rpois + flying, better be careful in the shoals.

man, bog bodies and sea snakes are really not that big a deal

# ¿ Sep 2, 2014 22:57

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Read posted:

D:1 -> L:8 -> O:4 -> D:15 -> S:5 -> S:5 -> V:4 -> U:5 -> V:5 -> Z:5 -> D:1 -> Win

For new players, I might suggest ... -> S:1-4 -> S:1-4 -> S:5 -> S:5 -> ...

Also, stealthy characters will often do better in abyss than V:5, but idk how many new players manage to get stealthy characters that far?

# ¿ Sep 3, 2014 03:52

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Dee Ehm posted:

That's it. I'm terrible at this game.

I finally had a VSBe going really, really well. The game was raining me in great loot, I got three(!) separate scrolls of acquirement, an artefact ring of regeneration, three wands of hasting, a manual of stealth early on, etc. etc. I had the Captain's Cutlass, another +9 Cutlass of Speed, a +9 Antimagic Quick Blade, etc.

And I still got swarmed by a couple of hydras and finished off by a Spriggan druid. After trouncing both Mara and Asterion on Swamp 5.

It's really discouraging to lose so many promising characters, it feels like I'm never going to win a game, and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

you're playing too quickly

e: ok, watched the tv.

(1) you rushed towards a pair of hydras at top speed. (and hence got into a fight with a druid at the same time.) do not rush toward melee enemies. it will only lead to getting in huge fights & dying.

(2) you tried to fight both hydras & the druid at the same time... (instead of using ?blink or more likely ?teleport to get away, the moment you saw you'd be fighting all three of those at once, plus whatever the druid pulled in)

(3) ... and you didn't even use buffs. (no potions, no brothers in arms, no berserk, not even trog's hand. nothing.)

(4) you used an antimagic weapon on a vine stalker. this is the smallest and hence the last of your mistakes, but don't do this. antimagic weapons dramatically decrease your mana pool; vine stalkers depend on their mana shield to live. this is not a good combination!

you mostly played at a reasonable speed (contrary to my earlier assumption), except during step 1, when you rushed toward the hydras. manually exploring, instead of using o or even shift-direction, is really dangerous, because it leads to making these kinds of gently caress-ups. your problem after that was mainly underestimating the tactical threat.

PleasingFungus fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Sep 3, 2014

# ¿ Sep 3, 2014 06:03

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Dee Ehm posted:

The quickblade was my anti-hydra weapon because my cutlass would cut their heads off. I used the cutlass in all other circumstances.

yeah, I figured. still not something I'd want to do (fighting hydras at effectively hugely reduced hp). crosstraining into lbl might have given you a flaming weapon to do, or just one that did enough raw damage to overcome the healing from head-chopping?

Dee Ehm posted:

Thanks for taking the time to give me a breakdown of what I did wrong though. I'll try to learn from this, move on and heal.

yeah, you'll get better at the game, and hardly ever suffer this kind of loss in future. I used to be pretty bad too

persevere!

# ¿ Sep 3, 2014 06:20

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Davzz posted:

Also is the LearnDB entry for Sack of Spiders which says "Probably the best item in the game" sarcastic? I mean, items that summon stuff are nice but I had 3 of them this game and I can't really tell how it's supposed to be much better than any of the rest.

By the way PleasingFungus, are you interested in any Beogh feedback?

I added that entry! And I meant it.

Here is what the Sack of Spiders does:

(1) It webs nearby enemies. (This was better when it just spewed webbing all around you; now it has a chance per-nearby-enemy of webbing them. Still very strong.) Have you ever wanted to trivialize the Enchantress? Well...

(2) It surrounds you with friendly monsters. This is pretty useful - blocks line of fire, distracts enemies, fucks with summoners. I'm told it's very good at messing with The Royal Jelly, which seems plausible to me.

(3) Occasionally, the spiders it spawns can actually kill things! They're startlingly effective at middlin' evocations, even into mid-late game.

Any one of these effects, on its own, would be worth keeping an inventory slot around for. All three together, in one action? Crazy.

And sure, I'd be happy to hear more Beogh feedback! 0.16 will probably see more Beogh tweaks, though nothing so dramatic as 0.15's.

pathetic little tramp posted:

So if I just leave my stuff anywhere, like around D:12, nothing will pilfer it now, is my understanding? Like, jellies can no longer destroy items off-level?

Jellies could only ever destroy items off-level if you worshipped Jiyva. (And they still do that, to be clear.)

It's still possible for a jelly to spawn while you're entering or leaving the level, ooze over your d:12 stash, and eat the whole thing. It's very unlikely, and I personally don't bother worrying about it; but the truly paranoid player will stash on lair:2, just to be sure.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2014 17:14

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Sage Grimm posted:

Phials are amazing, same with fans. I just can't justify lamps taking up a slot in the extended end game because it's main gimmick (DAMAGE) is mitigated by the fire resistance most things have by that point. The only thing worse than a lamp here is a stone of tremors.

Huh. I've never found fans to be all that useful, and lamps are extremely good; even in extended, most enemies don't resist fire, and some very nasty enemies (ice fiends...) are actually vulnerable to it.

Speleothing posted:

Ctrl+F is my stash (except for books)

Same, except also for books

# ¿ Sep 3, 2014 19:39

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Angry Diplomat posted:

Has anyone ever encountered a vault with some skeletons, a bunch of fruit, and an invisible imp or something in it? I just lost a decent OgVm because I went for some food and was attacked by an invisible thing that yelled imp curses at me. I initially tried fighting it because I was able to lure it into a hallway and beat on it, like you would an unseen horror, but it was remarkably tough and soaked up a ton of hits from my flail before I finally got to low HP and had to teleport away (since it was faster than me - basically seemed like an unseen horror with the ability to insult people). Of course I teleported right next to a giant frog which finished me off.

Sounds like a specific vault I know of with a shadow imp. Not sure why it was invisible, though - maybe it found a wand?

I am Otis posted:

if Yred "accepts your slave's kill," would that mean that my character isn't getting full XP? I usually keep most of my minions stashed somewhere and recall them if it looks like they're needed, but I kinda just want to let them all follow me and hide behind them when I need to

"Accepts your[ slave's] kill" means you got piety. This is independent of XP gain.

You get slightly less XP for kills that had allies (summons, zombies, etc) dealing damage; in the worst case, if you dealt no damage at all, you get 50% of the normal XP. (It doesn't matter who dealt the killing blow.) This sounds more important than it is, and in general is inadvisable to micromanage; the more you try to maximize your XP by shunning allies, the more likely you are to get a -∞ experience penalty.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2014 21:41

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Pitch posted:

code:
655086 Pitch the Slayer (level 27, -8/318 HPs)
             Began as an Ogre Skald on Sept 2, 2014.
             Was the Champion of Ashenzari.
             Mangled by a spectral titan (41 damage)
             ... called from beyond by a revenant
             ... on Level 3 of the Abyss on Sept 3, 2014.
I'm gonna be completely honest. I had already cleared Zot 5 and was trying to grind one more level of spellcasting for the Ogre Mage title.

Vanity, vanity, all is vanity...

silentsnack posted:

The skill boost is pretty much irrelevant since the gimmick/strategy uses Ashenzari primarily for clarity, sInv+telepathy, trap/portal detection, and item identification without needing scrolls or the risks of wield/wear identifying a cursed -3 hand axe of distortion or whatnot. You can be cheesy with abandoning/rejoining and using mummies or miscasts to curse stuff if you really want to, but it shouldn't be necessary.

After I posted the hypothesis yesterday, started one of these just to test it. Got the RE-III banner with minimal effort and went on to collect 3 runes without using any potions or scrolls. That character was safely and humanely disposed of, but it wouldn't have been hard to pull off a 'win' for someone who is into that kind of thing. (No judgement) I never got bound at all so piety never went past [****..] but 3* was all I needed for sInv/clarity.

Congrats! You are the first and (so far) only person to get the banner. Well done!

# ¿ Sep 3, 2014 23:45

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

scalded schlong posted:

Sigh.

I kinda think stuff shouldn't spawn in the eight squares surrounding a staircase, although I don't know what would be considered a suitable trade for this. Distortion dragons?

please don't give me ideas

# ¿ Sep 4, 2014 00:50

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Davzz posted:

Ok, here are my Beogh thoughts. I hope I gotten across some concepts because I think I might not have communicated that well here.

...

So yeah, those are my Beogh thoughts.

This was a little rambly.

A few tentative corrections: monsters do use weapon delay roughly like players do, from what I understand. It's just that they never have any weapon skill, and so always attack at the base delay of the weapon. Also, orc follower XP isn't currently spread equally; it's actually biased to give more to high-level orcs, and less to low-level ones. Not 100% about either of these (haven't dug up the relevant code), but that's what I've read...

On your suggestions:
(1) seems possible, though I'd need to think about it more. Encouraging the "enormous orcish doom army" style of play seems worthwhile.

(2) also possible, or something like it. Former-lead-dev dpeg has a standing suggestion to have praying over dead orcs bring them back (under certain circumstances?), which seems like it could be fun.

Not sold on (3), especially as an invocations-based ability (a permanent gift probably shouldn't depend on your skill level). I do agree that Beogh should use Invocations more heavily; Smite is not a very exciting ability.

(4) is highly unlikely; smite at least synergizes well with an orcish army, but demon-summoning... doesn't at all, really.

Thank you for the feedback! I would have appreciated if you were a little more concise, but thank you anyway.

Davzz posted:

That does reminds me, I seem to recall reading somewhere that Beogh hates desecrating Orc remains. Orc corpses are red, and you can't eat them, but he's totally OK with you turning them into skeletons and zombies apparently through Animate Skeleton and Raise Dead.

So basically his moral tiers are that eating your fellow Orcs ranks higher than turning them into former shambling mockeries of unlife.

Or maybe it's a bug, I don't know.

He's very practical.

I think the logic on this is "hey, it's what the orc sorcerers/high priests do"? Orcs are weird, man. Orcs are weird.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2014 07:04

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Jeffrey posted:

This thing I saw was this, but who knows:

Ah, that's plausible, yeah.

(For an example of monster weapon delay in action, pay close attention when fighting an ogre.)

Internet Kraken posted:

VVV How do Felids get powerful in the lategame? They're not like octopodes where they start off fragile but have the potential of becoming absurd with proper gear. Felids always have less gear options than other races though.

They're a very close approximation to immortal. They can move fast, have enough hp that they almost never suffer from "die instantly syndrome", and, most importantly, they have multiple lives. In a roguelike.

Absurd!

Seriously, compare:

code:

6976/22599 games for * (recent xl>=18): N=6976/22599 (30.87%)
129/243 games for * (recent felid xl>=18): N=129/243 (53.09%)

It looks like the breakeven point is XL 7; if felids can get past there, they're vastly more likely to win than the average race. (Though, of course, put in the usual disclaimers about lazy statistical analysis...)

Read posted:

http://cowmuffins.net/badforum.txt

(There are 216 entries)

never forget

quote:

It's a Giant Spiked Club of Speed! I'm not using it because I'm deadly afraid of ditching my shield.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2014 16:10

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:38

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Mr. Lobe posted:

Is there any way to change your character's name? I always wish I could rename my draconians after they get their colored scales.

Assuming you're talking offline, you'd probably have to edit the save-file. (Online, there's no way.)

# ¿ Sep 4, 2014 16:46

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