Rules Thread 2014: Black and white and read all over

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > Rules Thread 2014: Black and white and read all over

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Fenrir: Apr 26, 2005; I found my kendo stick, bitch!; Lipstick Apathy

Trin Tragula posted:

The ball is dead when the ballcarrier is held so that his forward progress has stopped. Imagine these players were upright and the defenders held him in that manner. Would you expect a forward progress call? Of course not. Finish your tackle off.

Exactly - at no point in the play was he pushed backward. His forward progress was hesitated at best, when he was on a pile of dudes, but never fully stopped.

Fenrir fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Oct 22, 2014

# ? Oct 22, 2014 21:15

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 09:22

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

I'd also like to drop this in here; Rogers Redding says "gently caress Notre Dame".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tYn7Yv6EYo

(Not in as many words, but still.)

# ? Oct 22, 2014 23:36

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

KingShibby posted:

I'm a HS Varsity Back Judge on a 5-man crew and I had this situation in my game last Friday night...
code:
4th down from the K-35;
K punts and the ball hits at the R-20 and rolls towards R's endzone;
At the R-10 a R player attempts to field the punt;
The fielding R player grabs the ball, and as falling to the ground fumbles the ball;
The ball continues rolling into the end zone, and is recovered by the K team inside the end zone.
Remember NFHS rules. I made the right call despite the entire town yelling and booing at me that I got it wrong.

Answer: Touchback the instant the ball crosses the goal line. No complete possession by the fielding R player

I spent way too long looking at this before I clicked the spoiler text because of how you phrased it.

How can a player fumble a ball he hasn't possessed?

# ? Oct 23, 2014 00:11

KingShibby: Jan 30, 2004; Wherever you go, whatever you do, I will be right here waiting for you...; Yams Fan

IllegallySober posted:

How can a player fumble a ball he hasn't possessed?

Yeah I could have worded that differently. Point was I never had the return player gaining possession & control, so it was a muffed punt until it crossed the goal line.

Sad part was the kicking team lost 44-0 and I took away what would be their only points of the game. Do I feel bad about that? Not one bit

# ? Oct 23, 2014 14:53

Kawalimus: Jan 17, 2008; Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

Buckhead posted:

Disclaimer: I work NFHS, so these might not be entirely applicable to the higher levels.

There is nothing that would cause a "major clock stopper" here that would require the clock to start on the snap, as opposed to the ready for play. That said, the referee has wide latitude to start or stop the clock in instances where he think it could be abused. You might have seen the SEC acknowledging that the referee should have done that in Ala-Ark: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11694663/southeastern-conference-says-referee-alabama-arkansas-game-mistakenly-ran-clock

Interesting, I never knew about "major clock stopper" stuff.

Another quick question for rules in general if there is an interception in the end zone and a guy tries to return it but there is then holding by the return team in the end zone, is that a safety just like if it's an offensive play and holding in the end zone?

# ? Oct 24, 2014 03:51

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

Sure. This is a case where penalty enforcement is actually simpler than people think. The rulebook doesn't care that you just had a weird as gently caress interception where the ball was tipped three times and dropped twice and then bounced off someone's arse instead of the ground. All it cares about is that there was a foul by the team in possession during what the rulebook calls a running play, and you use the same principle as for any other offensive team foul (in Rulebookese the offense is the team in possession at any given moment, not the team who put the ball in play) during any other running play. Either the foul occurs ahead of the end of the run (and the enforcement spot is the end of the run) or behind it (and it's the spot of the foul); both of those spots are in the end zone, there's nowhere to enforce the penalty to, safety.

That said, if the ballcarrrier doesn't get out of the end zone, we're going to avoid turning a touchback into a cheap safety if at all possible.

Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Oct 24, 2014

# ? Oct 24, 2014 09:42

Kawalimus: Jan 17, 2008; Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism

Man you guys have thought of everything.

# ? Oct 24, 2014 11:47

Uncle Jam: Aug 20, 2005; Perfect

I have a question about catching the football in college based on something I saw in the uva game.

The receiver catches the ball as he's going to ground. He is nearly flat on the ground at that point. After, his momentum makes him roll a half time and brings him to his feet. As he is rising he bobbles the ball quite severely then resecures it. The first time in possession doesn't seem long enough to be considered a full catch. My question is: he can't advance the ball, right? Can someone hit him during the bobble to make it incomplete?

# ? Oct 25, 2014 18:44

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

I think this is something where the answer to the hypothetical is an annoying "maybe, it depends exactly what happened and in what order".

However, if your ruling is that the player did not maintain control through going to ground, then got to his feet and did then successfully gain possession, the ball is still live because it was never possessed until the player regained his feet; just the same as it would still be live if a team-mate or opponent had then possessed it.

# ? Oct 29, 2014 12:42

Gerty: Jun 11, 2013; by XyloJW

So you know how when people are diving for a TD they can jump out of bounds and cross the hypothetical world-circumferencing goal line for a TD as long as they're not down/touch the ground out of bounds before they cross and it's a TD? Does that not apply for spotting the ball on the rest of the field? Like, it seems like if people dive/jump out of bounds the ball is placed where they crossed the sideline, not where the ball was when they actually touch the ground.

Not sure if I'm explaining this clearly...

# ? Nov 9, 2014 06:01

barnold: Dec 16, 2011; what do u do when yuo're born to play fps? guess there's nothing left to do but play fps. boom headshot

Here's an interesting question I thought of while watching the Utah-Oregon blunder the other day (video in reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNkHfiD-ojU)

Assume Kaelin Clay fumbles the ball as he did on the one yard line. The line judge sees this and immediately refrains from making any definite call. Now let's say the Oregon linebackers aren't paying attention and stop running, turn around, and start heading back toward the benches with the ball still rolling around on the ground. Do the refs blow the whistle to stop play or continue to see if someone notices and at what point do they stop play? And if they do, what's the ruling? A fumbled dead ball at the Oregon 1yd line and Utah ball (similar to a ball rolling out of bounds)?

# ? Nov 9, 2014 07:01

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

If the ball comes to rest and nobody is attempting to recover it (this is a judgement call) it's dead, and it belongs to the team who "should" have possession; the team last in possession after a fumble or backward pass, or the receiving team on a kick.

We all know what to do in this exact situation because it's happened at least half a dozen times on TV in either Div I-A or the NFL in the last couple of years - this is the first time I've seen where the covering officials didn't kill it with an inadvertent whistle because they assumed the runner was about to score. This means I can also tell you off the top of my head that if the ball had come to rest in Oregon's end zone without an attempt to recover it, it would have been declared dead, belonged to Utah, and the only thing it could have been is a touchdown for Utah. (Also that, on fourth down, it wouldn't trigger the fourth down fumble rule because the ball must be recovered before that can happen.)

Gerty posted:

So you know how when people are diving for a TD they can jump out of bounds and cross the hypothetical world-circumferencing goal line for a TD as long as they're not down/touch the ground out of bounds before they cross and it's a TD? Does that not apply for spotting the ball on the rest of the field? Like, it seems like if people dive/jump out of bounds the ball is placed where they crossed the sideline, not where the ball was when they actually touch the ground.

Not sure if I'm explaining this clearly...

I believe that NCAA and the NFL both have shitcanned "Goal line extends round the world" (because it was a really stupid idea) - did you see it happen somewhere recently? On most plays the ball is spotted where it crosses the sideline prior to the player going out of bounds, and this now applies when you're approaching the end zone also. "Crosses" implies "completely crosses", which is why you can still dive and put the ball over the pylon for a touchdown (Also it looks cool, and things that look cool should be encouraged)

# ? Nov 9, 2014 10:40

Fenrir: Apr 26, 2005; I found my kendo stick, bitch!; Lipstick Apathy

Well, and the pylon actually sits in-bounds, so if you hit the pylon or go directly over it, you've crossed the plane in-bounds and that's a TD. The "goal line goes around the world" thing only really applies more if you (or rather, the ball, because that's what matters) go out of bounds and never cross the plane in-bounds, right? In the NFL at least, that's ruled out of bounds at the point where the ball itself went out.

Fenrir fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Nov 9, 2014

# ? Nov 9, 2014 12:15

Skunkduster: Jul 15, 2005

What if a the possession of the ball is established (in a reception) while the ball is not in the end zone but the receiver's feet are? Like if the receiver is standing inside the goal line, but leaning forward (away from the post) and makes a catch where the ball never crosses the goal line, or where a receiver catches one out of the side of the end zone but drags his toes inbounds before going down?

# ? Nov 9, 2014 16:12

wa27: Jan 15, 2007

13 year old girls posted:

Here's an interesting question I thought of while watching the Utah-Oregon blunder the other day (video in reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNkHfiD-ojU)

Assume Kaelin Clay fumbles the ball as he did on the one yard line. The line judge sees this and immediately refrains from making any definite call. Now let's say the Oregon linebackers aren't paying attention and stop running, turn around, and start heading back toward the benches with the ball still rolling around on the ground. Do the refs blow the whistle to stop play or continue to see if someone notices and at what point do they stop play? And if they do, what's the ruling? A fumbled dead ball at the Oregon 1yd line and Utah ball (similar to a ball rolling out of bounds)?

Also in reference to this video (skip to around 3:10). Does it not matter that the Oregon player ran out of bounds and then touched the ball? Or did the ref just not notice?

# ? Nov 9, 2014 16:22

Gerty: Jun 11, 2013; by XyloJW

Trin Tragula posted:

I believe that NCAA and the NFL both have shitcanned "Goal line extends round the world" (because it was a really stupid idea) - did you see it happen somewhere recently? On most plays the ball is spotted where it crosses the sideline prior to the player going out of bounds, and this now applies when you're approaching the end zone also. "Crosses" implies "completely crosses", which is why you can still dive and put the ball over the pylon for a touchdown (Also it looks cool, and things that look cool should be encouraged)

Yeah maybe I just haven't been paying attention.

# ? Nov 9, 2014 16:27

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

Fenrir posted:

Well, and the pylon actually sits in-bounds

This is an interesting* point. A while back somewhere I posted a little diagram of the pylon and the sideline, which of course I can't find again. This'll do just as well.

*For a given value of "interesting".

The camera is out of bounds, the end zone is to the left. By rule, the goal line extends to the outer edge of the sideline (it doesn't go all the way to the edge of the thick white belt you'll see on many fields, just to the edge of the standard line width). A properly-positioned pylon is therefore both on the goal line and out of bounds, because it's on the sideline as well as the goal line. (The NFL has an exception to say that something that touches the pylon is not out of bounds; NCAA does not.)

wa27 posted:

Also in reference to this video (skip to around 3:10). Does it not matter that the Oregon player ran out of bounds and then touched the ball? Or did the ref just not notice?

No. Restrictions about going out of bounds only apply to Team A players on a passing play (you lose your eligibility to touch the pass) and on a kicking play (once you go out of bounds voluntarily, you cannot come back in for the rest of the down), to stop them running loops round the back of the coaches' box to avoid defenders.

SkunkDuster posted:

What if a the possession of the ball is established (in a reception) while the ball is not in the end zone but the receiver's feet are? Like if the receiver is standing inside the goal line, but leaning forward (away from the post) and makes a catch where the ball never crosses the goal line, or where a receiver catches one out of the side of the end zone but drags his toes inbounds before going down?

If the relevant line is the goal line, the pass is complete in the field of play; the ball remains live until something else happens, and must be advanced into the end zone to score. However, if the relevant line is the sideline or the end line in the end zone, the pass is considered complete in the end zone.

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:19

KingShibby: Jan 30, 2004; Wherever you go, whatever you do, I will be right here waiting for you...; Yams Fan

So a little while back in this thread I posted my story as a High School Back Judge on a punting situation where I made the right call. Well thanks to the magic of Hudl, I now have video of the play!

This is the actual play

And for lulz I also have the very next play :laffo:

Also on the pylon thing, the location of the pylon matters which rules you are using. In the NFL, the goal line does not extend infinitely; meaning that the runner cannot extend the ball behind the pylon out of bounds and it be considered a touchdown. Therefore they place the pylon as shown in that picture.

In NFHS rules, the goal line does extend infinitely if and only if the runner goes airborne as the result of contact by a defending player (runner cannot leave his feet of his own free will). So in NFHS the pylon is placed just out of bounds next to the sideline. NCAA is different, not sure since I don't ref NCAA (yet)

# ? Nov 10, 2014 14:59

Skunkduster: Jul 15, 2005

Your first link isn't working.

Does it get under your skin when the crowd bitches about your calls like in the third link?

# ? Nov 10, 2014 15:04

DJExile: Jun 28, 2007

I ref youth hockey and lacrosse every so often and I'd be lying if I said parental yelling doesn't get under my skin to some degree. At the youth level it's not too bad but man I've got nothing but respect for anyone who officiates any kind of high school event. You all have the patience of saints.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 15:21

KingShibby: Jan 30, 2004; Wherever you go, whatever you do, I will be right here waiting for you...; Yams Fan

SkunkDuster posted:

Your first link isn't working.

I had YouTube do it's stabilization stuff, so that's probably why it wasn't working, it should be now.

SkunkDuster posted:

Does it get under your skin when the crowd bitches about your calls like in the third link?

The only time I really take notice (outside of that situation) is when the crowd gets vulgar. I remember doing a tournament lacrosse game this past spring and ejecting some old woman from the stands when she yelled "You need to open your God drat eyes ref!"

DJExile posted:

I ref youth hockey and lacrosse every so often and I'd be lying if I said parental yelling doesn't get under my skin to some degree. At the youth level it's not too bad but man I've got nothing but respect for anyone who officiates any kind of high school event. You all have the patience of saints.

I'm in my 7th year of reffing hockey and I've finished 3 years of lacrosse with a lot of high school lacrosse. It does take a lot of patience to be a referee, what with every player/coach/spectator judging you and believing they know the rules better than I do (which 99% of the time they don't).
When it comes to getting yelled at, it helps being married amirite guys? :haw:

But seriously I've learned a great many lessons from officiating that helps me deal with everyday situations. I plan on officiating until my body can't take it anymore, so I should have at least 30 more years ahead of me!

# ? Nov 10, 2014 15:37

DJExile: Jun 28, 2007

The one thing I do love about little kid hockey is half the time you aren't even calling anything, you're just helping kids up when they run into the wall or each other and can't get up. They're like that little brother from "Christmas Story"

# ? Nov 10, 2014 16:08

KingShibby: Jan 30, 2004; Wherever you go, whatever you do, I will be right here waiting for you...; Yams Fan

DJExile posted:

The one thing I do love about little kid hockey is half the time you aren't even calling anything, you're just helping kids up when they run into the wall or each other and can't get up. They're like that little brother from "Christmas Story"

Exactly this. Only problem I have is that the :10bux:

ratio is making hockey less and less worth it nowadays, especially given the sad state of JV/Varsity assigning in my area :smithcloud:

But on the upside, every year I officiate around 50 lacrosse games, including enough varsity games to be playoff eligible. Plus I reffed 7 varsity football games in only my 2nd year of officiating football, which from what I've been told is near unheard of :smugdog:

Edit: I love SA emotes :getin:

# ? Nov 10, 2014 16:23

Fenrir: Apr 26, 2005; I found my kendo stick, bitch!; Lipstick Apathy

Trin Tragula posted:

This is an interesting* point. A while back somewhere I posted a little diagram of the pylon and the sideline, which of course I can't find again. This'll do just as well.

*For a given value of "interesting".

The camera is out of bounds, the end zone is to the left. By rule, the goal line extends to the outer edge of the sideline (it doesn't go all the way to the edge of the thick white belt you'll see on many fields, just to the edge of the standard line width). A properly-positioned pylon is therefore both on the goal line and out of bounds, because it's on the sideline as well as the goal line. (The NFL has an exception to say that something that touches the pylon is not out of bounds; NCAA does not.)

Ohhh, I see. I didn't know that was a special rule exception, which I guess is why I assumed the pylon sat in-bounds.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 18:36

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

SkunkDuster posted:

Does it get under your skin when the crowd bitches about your calls like in the third link?

I don't hear crowds. From the centre of the field you can barely hear the coaches, even on the occasions when I've been out in front of a thousand or two. Perception's a seriously weird thing when you're concentrating on something. And I firmly believe that everyone has a right to be as ridiculously one-eyed as they want while the game's on; the ones that annoy me are the ones who still insist that black is white three days later after they've seen it a million times, from five different angles, in beautiful slow motion.

KingShibby posted:

So a little while back in this thread I posted my story as a High School Back Judge on a punting situation where I made the right call. Well thanks to the magic of Hudl, I now have video of the play!

This is the actual play

Hopefully you don't mind a spot of well-intentioned feedback: this is a nice example of why it's always good when working deep to be very conservative about moving forward to meet a bouncing ball. It seems like you get back and find the goal line well enough, but you'd have been able to do it far more comfortably if you hadn't been hustling forward so hard before the ball landed.

(Also, you really need to find out who's stolen the horse that the R was riding.)

# ? Nov 10, 2014 20:04

KingShibby: Jan 30, 2004; Wherever you go, whatever you do, I will be right here waiting for you...; Yams Fan

Trin Tragula posted:

Hopefully you don't mind a spot of well-intentioned feedback: this is a nice example of why it's always good when working deep to be very conservative about moving forward to meet a bouncing ball. It seems like you get back and find the goal line well enough, but you'd have been able to do it far more comfortably if you hadn't been hustling forward so hard before the ball landed.

(Also, you really need to find out who's stolen the horse that the R was riding.)

I am one to accept any and all feedback! I passed the video onto the assignor of my football officials association, and he said the exact same thing about being too far up. I can also guarantee that the person I will be sitting down with will say the same thing since him and I share the same position at BJ. But we won't be able to meet until his season ends... Super Bowl :hehe:

I guess the R was expecting the U to be his horse until the U finally left on his own. Probably a good thing I'm not on that crew next season!

# ? Nov 10, 2014 20:11

anne frank fanfic: Oct 31, 2005

Why was TCU allowed to call two timeouts in a row in the Baylor game? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2NFyaqoVfE&t=11628s from 3:13:50-3:15:20ish.

# ? Nov 16, 2014 01:21

Grittybeard: Mar 29, 2010; Bad, very bad!

There's no rule against it in college as long as you have time outs available. I remember Gary Pinkle icing his own kicker twice in a row trying to draw Arizona State offside a couple of years ago.

# ? Nov 16, 2014 01:25

blackmongoose: Mar 31, 2011; DARK INFERNO ROOK!

Yeah, Ohio State did the same thing today. It's only a penalty in the NFL.

# ? Nov 16, 2014 01:29

Skunkduster: Jul 15, 2005

If a penalty is called on team A, can the team B coach ask the ref for clarification of the results before deciding whether to accept or decline the penalty? If so, what happens to the clocks during this time?

# ? Nov 27, 2014 02:03

Qwijib0: Apr 10, 2007; Who needs on-field skills when you can dance like this?; Fun Shoe

Trin Tragula posted:

Don't trust the TV clock! It's operated by a guy in the truck; it's not connected to the game clock in any way, shape or form. Sometimes they do sneaky things like this to catch back up to the game clock without resetting the DOG and giving away to everyone that they got out of sync.

This is not strictly true anymore, Daktronics-controlled boards have an API that feeds the CG in the truck and for those stadiums without it games with Sportvision-generated graphics (NFL, marquee NCAA) do OCR via a cam on the clock.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 06:51

Badfinger: Dec 16, 2004; Timeouts?!

We'll take care of that.

SkunkDuster posted:

If a penalty is called on team A, can the team B coach ask the ref for clarification of the results before deciding whether to accept or decline the penalty? If so, what happens to the clocks during this time?

Yes they can if it happens during play. Quick and dirty, Holding on Team A on 3rd & 10 on a play where there is an incomplete pass could be accepted to make it 3rd & 20 or declined to make it 4th & 10 (mostly dependent on field position).

I believe if there's a rules orgy that actually needs to be discussed and untangled there will be an official timeout (as in a clock stoppage taken by the officials), to be restarted dependent on what the game state is after the resolution.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 07:11

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Badfinger posted:

Yes they can if it happens during play. Quick and dirty, Holding on Team A on 3rd & 10 on a play where there is an incomplete pass could be accepted to make it 3rd & 20 or declined to make it 4th & 10 (mostly dependent on field position).

I believe if there's a rules orgy that actually needs to be discussed and untangled there will be an official timeout (as in a clock stoppage taken by the officials), to be restarted dependent on what the game state is after the resolution.

The clock is always stopped at the conclusion of a play where a flag is thrown so it wouldn't be running.

# ? Nov 28, 2014 02:58

Darksaber: Oct 18, 2001; Are you even trying?

Qwijib0 posted:

This is not strictly true anymore, Daktronics-controlled boards have an API that feeds the CG in the truck and for those stadiums without it games with Sportvision-generated graphics (NFL, marquee NCAA) do OCR via a cam on the clock.

I knew about the OCR, but for some reason I didn't think about boards having an API. That's honestly cool as hell.

# ? Nov 28, 2014 03:01

Buckhead: Aug 12, 2005; ___ days until the 2010 trade deadline

SkunkDuster posted:

If a penalty is called on team A, can the team B coach ask the ref for clarification of the results before deciding whether to accept or decline the penalty? If so, what happens to the clocks during this time?

One aspect of good officiating (particularly at the high school level) is to actually explain to the captains/coaches the outcomes of the penalty enforcement, rather than the penalties itself. This is real important for the more obscure aspects like PSK fouls, "clean hands" change of possessions, etc.

I have a question for those more knowledgeable of NCAA/NFL timing with the 40/25 playclock. The 40 second playclock starts immediately at the conclusion of the previous play. Sometimes - due to pile ups, shoving, etc. - the referee will pump the playclock to make sure a cheap delay of game penalty doesn't happen. What is the actual guidance on this? What threshold of delay is necessary to pump up the playclock?

# ? Nov 28, 2014 17:24

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

If the ball isn't at the inbounds spot by the time the play clock hits 20, pump it up. NCAA 3-2-4-b-3. There's a philosophy to say "don't fly-speck it".

# ? Nov 28, 2014 18:48

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

In Sunday Night Football tonight, Dallas completed a pass over the middle with under half a minute left in the second quarter. They got flagged for holding, though, and Philly accepted. The clock started on the snap, with no runoff. On the next play, Romo got flagged for an illegal forward pass that wasn't caught. The referee reported that Philly declined the ten-second runoff.

It seems to me like there should have been a runoff after the first penalty, but they stopped the clock and left it stopped until the snap. It also seems to me like there shouldn't have been a runoff option for the second play, since the incomplete pass had stopped the clock.

I feel like I used to know this stuff better.

# ? Dec 15, 2014 04:01

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

The principle is that only a foul that immediately causes the clock to stop carries a runoff. Holding and other live-ball fouls only cause it to stop at the end of the down. False starts and similar dead-ball fouls that prevent the snap cause it to stop immediately, so do qualify; and incomplete illegal forward passes are in there as well by extension, because a forward pass thrown incomplete to stop the clock has been illegal for a long time. (There's an exception to allow teams to spike the ball.)

# ? Dec 15, 2014 12:23

blackmongoose: Mar 31, 2011; DARK INFERNO ROOK!

Related to that, I remember seeing a college game where Team A (who was leading) had a 3rd down with 1:20 left in the game, ran for a first down, but got flagged for holding. After the penalty was enforced, the referee started the clock when the ball was spotted, so Team A got to take an additional :25 off the clock, which meant they punted with :14 left. Had they not held and failed to pick up the first, they would have punted with about :35-:40 left so it seems like they got rewarded for holding. Is this actually the rule, or did the ref make a mistake or I saw something incorrectly? It seems pretty exploitable otherwise.

# ? Dec 15, 2014 14:42

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 09:22

chaoslord: Jan 28, 2009; Nature Abhors A Vacuum

Not holding so I'm not sure if this situation matches perfectly, but something similar happened with a false start during Bama/Arkansas. Answer here was clock should not have started.

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=11694663&src=desktop

# ? Dec 15, 2014 15:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > Rules Thread 2014: Black and white and read all over

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