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Maybe not ASAP, but definitely by the 2nd stratum. I do want some levels in it by the end of the first stratum. Also Medishot and the class variants doesn't work like EO1's refresh, thankfully. That was such a stupidly designed skill.
Araxxor fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 05:49
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Mini Update: Force Skills : You know, maybe we should have brought that Protector guy with us you know? He's supposed protect us from getting hurt, right? : Well, I tried to get him to come along, but... : When we told him about what happened to you, he just laughed until he fell over and said he was too busy. He did ask me to tell him how many more times you get knocked out.: Uuuuggghhhhh.We're gonna take a look at Force Skills, and what they're capable of. But first, let's finish up that quest.  When you get all the items needed for a quest, the game will let you know. Be careful not to sell them to the store by accident. It took until the 4th game for it to start warning you about that.  PC-88 Version Force Skills can be unleashed once that force meter fills up. It takes 100 points of Force to fill up the Force meter. A popular tactic in the first game was to prepare for a boss battle by building up boost by blazing through battles, and running away from all encounters until the party reached the boss. It can still be done here, but Force builds up a lot slower than Boost did in EO1. Atlus also made it so that you lose some Force points when running away, meaning you need to commit to most the fights you get into to keep the Force. Here's the exact ways to earn and lose Force. -Defending, using a skill, attacking an enemy, taking damage from an enemy, killing an enemy: +2 -Using the attack command: +1 -Using an item, switching, dodging an attack, attempting to escape: +0 -Successfully escaping: -5 If a character dies, they'll lose all their force. So try not to have that happen. A way to grind for force is to get into a battle with a weak enemy, and just have everyone defend, and hold down the A button for a few minutes. There are a few ways to gain Force faster, but we won't have access to those for a long while.  : All of a sudden I feel like doing this move... When the Force meter is full, the class can access the move from the skills menu. : THE PIPES ARE BROKEN! Issen hits all enemies on the field for a massive amount of damage, and has a 50% chance to instantly kill each one. : Hmm, impressive. Now which comic book did you learn that from?: Actually it was from this-: Who cares? Anyways, check this out! Those Hedgehogs won't be able to do a drat thing to me once I'm done with them! : DOMINATED, twinkle-toes!  : Not so tough now, are you!? : Are you that afraid of Hedgehogs?: Do you know how vicious those things are!?Dominate completely binds an enemy. Head, arms, and legs are all sealed away. This can make some enemies sitting ducks since they won't be able to use their most threatening moves most of the time. The best part about Dominate? It works on everything. Nothing in the game is immune to it. Regular mook? FOE? Boss? Dominate will completely bind them. It doesn't even care if the enemy in question is really resistant to binds or even immune to them. Dominate will land every time it's used. The downside is that Dominate has a really low speed modifier, so it tends to go last in a turn. But the enemy is guaranteed to be practically helpless the next turn.  : YOU WILL SUFFER! :  : Note to self: don't piss off the girl.Caprice attempts to inflict every single status effect in the game at once on all the enemies. But status effects cannot stack with each other, with the exception of stun. For example, an enemy cannot be poisoned and blind at the same time. If you try to inflict poison on a blind enemy, it will overwrite the blind effect. This also applies to our party. Because of that, this force skill uses a priority system to determine which status effects get inflicted on the enemies, with the more deadly ones such as instant death being checked for first, and minor inconveniences such as blind, last. If the status effect doesn't land, it moves onto the next one. If poison is the status effect chosen, it will deal 350 damage per turn, which is stronger than a max level Poison skill. For the record, status effects and binds can stack, so you don't have to worry about that. Video: Riot Gun I ended up doing a video for the next one. I tried capturing Fedot's Force Skill in a GIF, but it ended up losing some frames which made it look a lot less impressive. Also you get to see some gameplay this way.  : Hope this works. Ready... Aim... FIRE! What Riot Gun does is hit a single enemy for massive damage, and is a guaranteed stun on an enemy. Like Dominate, this also works on everything, but more because nothing in the game is immune to stun. Riot Gun is the only guaranteed stunning skill. It has a pretty high speed modifier to make up for the Gunner's slow speed, so it tends to go before the enemy does. You can use this to safely set up a Dominate as well. : Hey gramps, mind healing us up? I don't wanna get taken out again.: Hold on for a second. Now how did that work again? : All are healed! Invoke fully heals the party and gives them a buff that makes them resistant to elemental attacks. However, unlike the Medic's and Beast's Force Skills, Invoke cannot revive party members or heal status effects.  The party gets another level up here. I take another point in Dead Law for Ken. Whips for Nick, which unlocked Climax. Regenall for Frederik. Fedot has learned Medishot, and Aliara took another level in Poison. Now let's turn in that quest.  PC-88 Version  : Now that were fast! Lessee here... One, two, three! Here's the reward for yeh. We get a nice amount of money. I restock on supplies and rest up my party here. Now if you think Force Skills sound completely and utterly broken, you would be right. Force Skills can utterly destroy the difficulty of some battles if they're used right. In fact some strategies for dealing with the post game bosses revolve around using these. I will refrain from using them in this Let's Play. Mainly because force grinding is pretty boring for me, and you can beat the game without them. I do want to play fair with this game, and it would be boring to watch something like a boss get obliterated within 2 turns without it getting a chance to move. Well for the main story anyway. When the post game comes around, all bets are off. Still, the nice thing about them is that they can provide a way out, if you're stuck on a boss, and your various strategies and party compositions aren't working. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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Sep 17, 2014 21:10
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You've transposed the images for Frederik and Fedot selecting their Force Skills.
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Sep 17, 2014 21:19
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W.T. Fits posted:You've transposed the images for Frederik and Fedot selecting their Force Skills. Oh thank you. Fixed that right away.
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Sep 17, 2014 21:21
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Dr. Fetus posted:Dominate completely binds an enemy. Head, arms, and legs are all sealed away. This can make some enemies sitting ducks since they won't be able to use their most threatening moves most of the time. The best part about Dominate? It works on everything. Nothing in the game is immune to it. Regular mook? FOE? Boss? Dominate will completely bind them. It doesn't even care if the enemy in question is really resistant to binds or even immune to them. Dominate will land every time it's used. The downside is that Dominate has a really low speed modifier, so it tends to go last in a turn. But the enemy is guaranteed to be practically helpless the next turn. The speed modifier may not be a negative, depending on how mechanics work; when do you check if binds fall off, start of the round or bound character doing a move? If it's the latter, a low speed on dominate trades off shutting down the enemy this turn for a next turn where the Dark Hunter has a juicy fully bound target nicely set up. Of course, I don't really recall if Ecstasy (or was it Climax) is any good.
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Sep 17, 2014 22:06
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Man, this LP makes me wish I could play EOII again. I've been stuck in the postgame for a year now thanks to my DS being a broken ruin and not having the money to buy a new one yet. (The funny thing is, my DS still works, it's hull is just broken to the point where I would need some kind of mechanical contraption to hold the parts while I play.)
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Sep 17, 2014 22:16
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Omobono posted:The speed modifier may not be a negative, depending on how mechanics work; when do you check if binds fall off, start of the round or bound character doing a move? If it's the latter, a low speed on dominate trades off shutting down the enemy this turn for a next turn where the Dark Hunter has a juicy fully bound target nicely set up. Of course, I don't really recall if Ecstasy (or was it Climax) is any good. Binds fall off at the start of a turn. If the head icon is there, it can't use head moves for that turn. The move is Ecstasy, and while it does do a ton of damage at max level (750% damage modifier), it also increases the chance for the binds to fall off. I'd rather have the utility of the binds rather than some more damage in that case. It's not like EO2 lacks damage dealers, and the Dark Hunter still has some really good damage moves with the bait skills. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 22:20
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I didn't realize that Dominate always worked, wow I am sure it will get nerfed in EOU2. Along with Climax probably from what I have heard about it in this game.
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Sep 17, 2014 22:47
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I'll be sad for the inevitable Hexer nerfs.
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Sep 17, 2014 22:54
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You mentioned Hedgehogs and the Venomflies having a conditional drop, but I don't think you mentioned how to get them. I know I got them when I dabbled with EO2 a bit (got a bit burnt out after EO1, never cleared the first stratum), but I have no idea why.
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Sep 17, 2014 22:55
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Dr Pepper posted:I'll be sad for the inevitable Hexer nerfs. EOIII and IV don't even have Hexers, I think.
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Sep 17, 2014 22:58
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Yeah, I think the idea behind much of EOIII was that they'd make it as different as possible since a few people felt like EO2 was more of a patch or expansion than a true sequel. Bugfixes, tweaks, a few new classes, etc.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:01
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Bellmaker posted:You mentioned Hedgehogs and the Venomflies having a conditional drop, but I don't think you mentioned how to get them. I know I got them when I dabbled with EO2 a bit (got a bit burnt out after EO1, never cleared the first stratum), but I have no idea why. They're listed in the enemy info when they first show up in the LP, but I'll say it here anyway. You get the Hedgehog's conditional by killing it on the first turn. Being blindsided will automatically disqualify you for this. Venomflies just needed to be killed with Volt attacks, which is also their weakness. I'll make it more clear in the updates. Libluini posted:EOIII and IV don't even have Hexers, I think. Those games don't have Hexers, but their equivalents are the Wildling and Arcanist. I wasn't too impressed with the Wildlings, but the Arcanists were pretty nice support classes. Although they never were as ridiculous as EOII's Hexer. They were in EOU, and from what I heard they were pretty strong support classes there as well. Maybe a bit too strong, but not as strong as they were in EO2. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Sep 17, 2014 |
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Sep 17, 2014 23:07
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Libluini posted:EOIII and IV don't even have Hexers, I think. I believe he was referring to the EO2 remake for the 3DS coming down the pipe in the not too distant future.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:27
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Yeah. It will presumably attempt to balance things a little more. Which is sad because I loved my Hexer once she got Poison maxed and pretty much ended Random Encounters.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:30
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On the other hand any class nerfs will also be coupled with them bringing the enemies and such a bit more in line with reason. So it'll probably wash in the end.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:42
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Dr. Fetus posted:They're listed in the enemy info when they first show up in the LP, but I'll say it here anyway. You get the Hedgehog's conditional by killing it on the first turn. Being blindsided will automatically disqualify you for this. Venomflies just needed to be killed with Volt attacks, which is also their weakness. I'll make it more clear in the updates. Oh, I love the Wildlings. Summoning a meat shield to take a few hits for the parties is always neat. Double bonus if you summon something which can dish out status effects.
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Sep 18, 2014 00:06
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Those force skills are pretty neat. How many kills does it take to grind one up? It seems like you might be able to get a lot of mileage out of that free giant heal.
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Sep 19, 2014 05:17
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Libluini posted:Oh, I love the Wildlings. Summoning a meat shield to take a few hits for the parties is always neat. Double bonus if you summon something which can dish out status effects. After toying around with the Wildling for a while in 3, I do have to say they can be pretty handy. The main problem I had with them was that the 6th slot in my party was either occupied by my Ninja/Zodiac or Hoplite/Ninja depending on what I wanted to do in battle. I didn't need additional competition for that.  I also did not like how binds were distributed in that game.Glazius posted:Those force skills are pretty neat. How many kills does it take to grind one up? It seems like you might be able to get a lot of mileage out of that free giant heal. Killing monsters to grind up force is really inefficient. It's better to find a weak encounter and just have the whole party defend for about 40 turns if the force meter is completely empty.
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Sep 19, 2014 05:30
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Glazius posted:Those force skills are pretty neat. How many kills does it take to grind one up? It seems like you might be able to get a lot of mileage out of that free giant heal. At 5 points a kill, it's 20 kills to max out your Force gauge. Any strategy that revolves around using your Force skills will involve a(n endgame) consumable that fills your gauge instantly.
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Sep 19, 2014 05:36
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Seyser Koze posted:At 5 points a kill, it's 20 kills to max out your Force gauge. Any strategy that revolves around using your Force skills will involve a(n endgame) consumable that fills your gauge instantly. Or be a handy by-product of level grinding for a boss.
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Sep 19, 2014 06:17
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Dr. Fetus posted:Killing monsters to grind up force is really inefficient. It's better to find a weak encounter and just have the whole party defend for about 40 turns if the force meter is completely empty.
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Sep 19, 2014 06:41
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I can Trip Report that yes, Force Skills are goddamn devastating and dropping a bunch of them on the first Stratum's boss along with poisoning it makes it die really drat fast without doing much of consequence. And then it drops, um, that thing and wowee wow wow.
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Sep 19, 2014 21:43
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Mini Update: Gathering Time to take the farming team out for a spin.   Right away I level up Healer, Cure, and Take. In the first game, gathering skills could be leveled up to 10, and each level gave 2 uses per gathering point per day, and increased the chance to find something. Here they can only be leveled up to 5, and give 1 use per level. So yeah, a maximum of 5 uses compared to the first game's 20. Ouch. Atlus also decided that wasn't enough and nerfed gathering even more, which we'll see later in this update.  Bellamy's gathering skill is chopping, which we can't make use of until the third floor. So he takes points in Fire Up and Ice Up, which unlocked Fire and Ice spells. I make him learn the art of pyrotechnics.  Pauline here is a Survivalist, and has access to all three gathering skills. I have her level up Escape Up, Take, and Mine for the gathering points on the 2nd floor.  Emilia's gathering skill is Mine. She levels that up, and levels up Swords, which unlocked Cleaver, and she also takes Escape Up.  Aegis' gathering skill is also Mine. He levels that up, and Escape Up and Shields as well.  : Everybody ready? Let's get going! : Alright, says here on the map it's around here someplace. Oh, here it is!   We only have two uses of Take, so this is all we can get for now. Now you would think taking a team of 5 Survivalists and having them all level up the Take skill, would be more efficient, right? Well, yes it could make you more money, but that is a risky team to run with. Mainly because this could happen. I had to make a new team to show this off since the chances for this happening are pretty low.      Raflesia HP: 220 AT: 20 DF: 15 Exp: 831 This is a Raflesia. No, it's not an FOE despite what it looks like, although it was one in the 4th game. It's a random encounter from the 5th floor. A party normally doesn't stand a chance against these until they're at least level 9. If your party is capable of taking one out at this point, enjoy all the exp they weren't supposed to be getting. What happened here was a gathering ambush. A new “feature” Atlus decided to put in to nerf farmbot teams. A popular strategy in the first game in order to make money was to gather a team of weak Survivalists, and have some stronger party members escort them to gathering points, Warp Wire out, sell the stuff, and repeat. There was pretty much little to no risk in using that strategy, so Atlus decided to make it harder to make money off of this. No, you don't get any warnings that these are about to happen, nor does the game even tell you about them in the first place. These encounters will always blindside you, and there is no way to prevent these encounters, or the blindsides. Not even the Survivalist's passives will prevent these. These ambushes generally pit you against the stronger or strongest monsters in the stratum. Gathering can be a decent way to make some money in the beginning of the game if you're willing to take that risk, but eventually we'll get a much better way to make money. After the first stratum, all gathering is really good for is for completing quests, and for 100% completion. The chances of running into an ambush are as follows: The first floor of a strata has a 1% chance of an ambush each time you gather. The 2nd and 3rd floors have a 3% chance of an ambush. And the 4th and 5th floors have either a 5% or a 10% chance of an ambush. This does not apply to the 6th stratum, it has different chances for each gathering point, and some of them are... special.  : Are you quite done? I don't have all night. Working as a babysitter, how humiliating. : Hang on. Okay, we're done. Sheesh, you couldn't have waited for a few more seconds?: Well I have better things to do and- oh my.  : Uh, should we fight that thing? It looks pretty tough.: We don't need to worry. We have a holy knight to protect us all! : I don't have a death wish, so goodbye! : Same here!: Ehhh- oh fine.Escape up is a really good skill that you want your whole team to invest in at some point. It increases the escape rate by 30% for the class that takes this skill.  : Oh wow, is this that dinosaur they told us about?: Uh, didn't Fedot say not to disturb that thing?: Oh I'm sure it can't hurt to get a closer look.  In case you thought I was kidding wanting to avoid the FOEs, I wasn't. And yes, a dinosaur did less damage to a party member than a flower. This isn't a really strong FOE. The main party will be able to take this one out soon enough. : Okay. Maybe that wasn't a good idea...: Pfft, what an idiot.: Uh, Maverick, you can fix her up, right?: Sure! At the hospital. Huh? OH CRAP!: Uh, we better run. I think we just pissed it off!: That idiotic Survialist! We unlock Nectars and Ward Chimes for purchase. Ward Chimes decreases the rate of random encounters. Not too useful for our exploration team as less encounters means less experience, although it could be helpful for farming teams. The Nectar is too expensive for us right now, so the hospital is gonna have to be our main way of reviving party members.  : Oh my, are you all explorers?: Uh, yes we are. Who are you?: Oh good! I've been trying to explore the Labyrinth by myself and it hasn't been working out. I am Gilbert, a Troubadour. Please let me join, I really need a job!: Ehh, I'll talk to our leader about it. I guess some songs could help our morale.: Oh thank you! I'm still learning, but I hope you all enjoy my music anyway.
Araxxor fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Sep 5, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2014 19:13
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quote:Oh Atlus  And yet in a later game they add a class literally called "farmer", don't they?
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Sep 20, 2014 19:19
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SSNeoman posted:Oh Atlus Yep, Etrian Odyssey III, as a matter of fact.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:02
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SSNeoman posted:Oh Atlus Yup. And they're the damned best utility class. They even have a skill that binds an enemy's everything. But generally they are great if you forget items, since they have skills that act as nectars and warp wires. (and their best skill repels encounters for a certain amount of time) Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Sep 20, 2014 |
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Sep 20, 2014 20:02
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Dr. Fetus posted:What happened here was a gathering ambush. A new “feature” Atlus decided to put in to nerf farmbot teams. A popular strategy in the first game in order to make money was to gather a team of weak Survivalists, and have some stronger party members escort them to gathering points, Warp Wire out, sell the stuff, and repeat. There was pretty much little to no risk in using that strategy, so Atlus decided to make it harder to make money off of this. No, you don't get any warnings that these are about to happen, nor does the game even tell you about them in the first place. These encounters will always blindside you, and there is no way to prevent these encounters, or the blindsides. Not even the Survivalist's passives will prevent these. These ambushes generally pit you against the stronger or strongest monsters in the stratum. Ambushes were such a dick move (like anything else isn't). III at least gave you a warning to get out while you had the chance.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:11
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Farmers have really good field support, but their in battle support is rather mediocre, and they're just terrible at combat. They do have the highest natural luck stat, so a Wildling sub might be good on them for all the status effects. Gathering ambushes worked differently in that game too. For one thing it actually warns you about them now. It'll ask you if you want risk getting a rare item from a gathering point, but you also have a chance of getting into an encounter if you say yes. And it's not a guaranteed blindside anymore if you do. So if you got killed there, well the game did warn you. If anything, that nerf is a bigger reason not to invest in any gathering skills for your main party. Why risk giving the game another reason to kill your party this early?
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Sep 20, 2014 20:16
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3 has subclassing, doesn't it?
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Sep 21, 2014 12:26
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Dr. Fetus posted:
Atlus whyyyyyyyy  e: Trip Report: On a related note Ladybugs can go to hell, what the hell Atlus. Bellmaker fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 15:12
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chaos rhames posted:3 has subclassing, doesn't it? It does, but I don't see any reason to subclass as a farmer unless you're making an unorthodox farming team. Bellmaker posted:Atlus whyyyyyyyy Little tip, run if they're alone. Take them out first if they appear with a different enemy, or take them out at the same time if they appear in a group. Decided to do a bit of experimenting with the next update, who knows if it'll work out or not. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 15:37
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Dr. Fetus posted:It does, but I don't see any reason to subclass as a farmer unless you're making an unorthodox farming team. You subclass as a farmer to get the free 5 skill points. That you don't really need. But hey! Free!
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Sep 21, 2014 16:54
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Dr. Fetus posted:Little tip, run if they're alone. Take them out first if they appear with a different enemy, or take them out at the same time if they appear in a group. Oh I figured that out in a hurry the first time, it's the later encounters on the floor that show that Atlus knows exactly what it's doing with them and that they hate you 
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Sep 21, 2014 17:15
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That EO2 -> EO3 Ambush change highlights something Atlus has done amazingly well across this series, which is improving difficulty fairness without making the games easier. I can't think of a single change (except 1 -> 2 FOE changes that got reverted/improved in 3) that didn't feel as though it was fairer without seeming like the game difficulty got nerfed. Ambush was a good idea, and it's great with the warning and risk/reward in 3, but EO2 ambush is difficult in the same way that, yeah, a squirrel stealing your party's swords would be a difficulty bump, sure. I'm surprised there was never an equipment-loss event in this series now that I think about it. How did post-game EO1 not have "This flesh wall has a glimmering hole haha a hellsquirrel steals your first party member's pants. Also his skill points. And it's yes or no go ahead pick one haha"
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Sep 22, 2014 14:49
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That just shows how Ha$bro wants to cater to the power munchkin WoW babbies, permanent equipment loss is part of what makes D&D the premiere--wait, this isn't grognards.txt. EO's improvement over time reflects a very carefully refined difficulty curve. Notably they dropped the mobs that auto-ambush you in the very next game. Compare this to mainline Shin Megami Tensei games where you can know exactly what you're doing and still fold like a house of cards because the enemy got a single critical hit. In Etrian Odyssey, when you die it is usually because of a lack of information. If you return to that spot knowing, say, to kill the Ladybugs first for the love of God you can probably eke out a win.
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Sep 22, 2014 15:16
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Nah, these games are harder than SMT games for the most part (especially the PS2 era and beyond ones). SMT games tend to VERY starkly reward knowing what an enemy is going to do, and if you know what sort of attacks the enemy has and what is effective against them you can pretty much run over most things. There are some exceptions that tend to get noted as That Boss (like say Shadow Yukiko in original P4) but mostly the difficulty is only really high compared to games where you just don't give a poo poo about things like weaknesses or buffs.
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Sep 22, 2014 17:13
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Old Greg posted:I'm surprised there was never an equipment-loss event in this series now that I think about it. How did post-game EO1 not have "This flesh wall has a glimmering hole haha a hellsquirrel steals your first party member's pants. Also his skill points. And it's yes or no go ahead pick one haha" No, no don't say that. They're always listening, you know.
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Sep 22, 2014 20:14
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Feinne posted:Nah, these games are harder than SMT games for the most part (especially the PS2 era and beyond ones). SMT games tend to VERY starkly reward knowing what an enemy is going to do, and if you know what sort of attacks the enemy has and what is effective against them you can pretty much run over most things.
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Sep 22, 2014 20:47
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Old Greg posted:That EO2 -> EO3 Ambush change highlights something Atlus has done amazingly well across this series, which is improving difficulty fairness without making the games easier. I can't think of a single change (except 1 -> 2 FOE changes that got reverted/improved in 3) that didn't feel as though it was fairer without seeming like the game difficulty got nerfed. Ambush was a good idea, and it's great with the warning and risk/reward in 3, but EO2 ambush is difficult in the same way that, yeah, a squirrel stealing your party's swords would be a difficulty bump, sure. Oh please no, the warp-wire-stealing events in EOII were aggravating enough. (There's a reason why you should never go into the labyrinth with less than two warp wires and those events are one.) Spoilered because we haven't seen those things yet.
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Sep 22, 2014 20:59
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