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"i had things in hand, Shaw" - "Yeah, things like a grenade launcher" - love the Mayhem Twins(tm) 
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Sep 24, 2014 19:04
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This is one of those times where I wished this show was on Netflix or HBO. I would have devoted the first 3/4 episodes to show how each character is suffereing in their life without a purpose and hating their new job; each ending with them finding out that the job somehow relates to The Machine's overall plan. Basically turned this episode into 3 parts. I guess since we all knew there was going to be an episode where the band got back together they just threw this out so they can jump back into the cat and mouse game that should make up the majority of this season. Anyway good episode; as shown in the last season this show can live up to its potential when given a chance so even though most of the time it's 60% mediocre, those moments when it goes balls out are worth the wait.
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Sep 24, 2014 19:29
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PaybackJack posted:This is one of those times where I wished this show was on Netflix or HBO. I would have devoted the first 3/4 episodes to show how each character is suffereing in their life without a purpose and hating their new job; each ending with them finding out that the job somehow relates to The Machine's overall plan. Basically turned this episode into 3 parts. I guess since we all knew there was going to be an episode where the band got back together they just threw this out so they can jump back into the cat and mouse game that should make up the majority of this season. Anyway good episode; as shown in the last season this show can live up to its potential when given a chance so even though most of the time it's 60% mediocre, those moments when it goes balls out are worth the wait. Well, this sort of thing is more alchemy than science. Even if, hypothetically, this was on a premium network or service with more tolerance for slow builds and extended placesetting, the drawback is that you've got an action show with barely any action in it for three episodes. Look at The Leftovers: 90% of that show is observation and people loving hate it, despite its critical acclaim. Granted, nobody should make creative decisions based only on what other people might think. All I'm trying to do is illustrate how the alternate situation could backfire.
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Sep 24, 2014 19:39
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PaybackJack posted:This is one of those times where I wished this show was on Netflix or HBO. I would have devoted the first 3/4 episodes to show how each character is suffereing in their life without a purpose and hating their new job; each ending with them finding out that the job somehow relates to The Machine's overall plan. Basically turned this episode into 3 parts. I guess since we all knew there was going to be an episode where the band got back together they just threw this out so they can jump back into the cat and mouse game that should make up the majority of this season. Anyway good episode; as shown in the last season this show can live up to its potential when given a chance so even though most of the time it's 60% mediocre, those moments when it goes balls out are worth the wait. This sounds boring and I'm glad they didn't do it.
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Sep 24, 2014 19:43
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Regy Rusty posted:This sounds boring and I'm glad they didn't do it. Me too, that sounds like a terrible idea. Why the hell would you want to watch multiple episodes of them not doing the things you watch the show for?
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Sep 24, 2014 19:50
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I think it would have been nice to make the ramp up to "John with Grenade Launcher" take an episode or two. I'd not dedicate a lot of time to it but the team trying to save people while also hiding in their cover jobs would have been kind of neat. That said, when I saw John with his Grenade Launcher and they framed it exactly how they always frame the Grenade Launcher shots, I was pretty drat pumped.
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Sep 24, 2014 19:56
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grate deceiver posted:I get that, but that scene was weird as hell. She steps out of the car, flashes a Homeland Security badge, asks one question and after one look at the truck immediately walks back, throwing the badge in the trashcan in plain view of the cop. I thought it was okay. It was to hammer home the point that the PoI team can't just go buck wild all the time because Samaritan is going to send someone to check things out. Samaritan is at least close to as smart as The Machine, it has to be aware that incidents like this are way above the level of violence that should be happening without some other force that it can't see coming into play. It's probably smart enough to start figuring out that there may be some sort of blind spot working against it, and if so, it sends a human operative to investigate. You have to figure Watkins had a message from Samaritan like "SUSPECTED TARGET ACTIVITY AT LOCATION" and she went there to investigate. She figured out that she showed up too late since there was no one around but cops, and didn't bother hanging around for too long trying to act like a DEA agent, but given a tip-off from Samaritan she suspected it wasn't just gangs fighting gangs. To me, that was proof that the gang has to be careful. People in this thread have been down on the episode because it seems like the gang isn't blending in on their day jobs and like they are still acting all rogue -- Watkins showing up was the writers showing that things actually are different now and there will be consequences if they aren't more subtle. One of these times, if they keep blowing things up, Watkins is going to show up before the action is over, and then they are in trouble.
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Sep 24, 2014 20:09
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I said this already, but really my only criticism is that they should have nailed down and stated once or twice in the episode how much time took place between the s3 finale and this premiere. You get the impression that it hasn't been that long otherwise which leads to the feeling that them springing back to action is a bit premature. If someone had been like "Yo it's been 5 months since we've been doing this crap I can't do this anymore Finch" or something like that it would go a long way dissuading that notion. I loved the episode in any case. We still don't know what Root is doing and Harold doesn't seem to be fully back in(though I expect him to inform the team about the new base by the end of the next ep) so I wouldn't say we are fully back in action just yet.
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Sep 24, 2014 20:16
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I assume the show runs more or less real time with when the episode airs so it might've just been equivalent to the couple of months off that it took, which is why they never address it, because the show has been pretty consistent about it.
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Sep 24, 2014 20:29
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Also how amazing is the sound editing on this show? I don't just mean the baller song choice at the end, either. When John is about to set his stuff down at Carter's old desk her theme starts playing and he looks at Fusco and its just a great touch that the show refuses to forget about her.
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Sep 24, 2014 20:44
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They could be intending to show flashbacks to them in their mundane jobs as it becomes relevant. Or maybe they still aren't done showing it. Just because they have a network and Finch found a batcave, doesn't mean that they are immediately back to status quo. Their covers still need to be kept, otherwise why even show John partnering with fusco.raditts posted:Carter's old desk The look between Fusco and John when he walked up to it 
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Sep 24, 2014 21:22
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Yeah it's basically reverse comic book storytelling if anything. Instead of heroes hiding behind a secret identity and eventually shedding their secret identities, it's the other way around.
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Sep 24, 2014 21:27
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Abu Nazir should have known better than to mess with Marlo Stanfield.
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Sep 24, 2014 21:56
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I knew he looked familiar! Oh right, he was in Arrow last season too I think!
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Sep 24, 2014 21:57
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Great OP! Good episode and I'm glad they pulled back a little bit because that finale was dark as gently caress. I get that Samaritan is a big bad thing, but the some of the scenes just had a undercurrent of hopelessness that was kind of depressing. I thought the "antenna network" was very clever. The throwbacks to vintage S1 Reese were also great. Sometimes the show just needs to let Reese go old school and throw some motherfuckers out of buildings and kneecap to his hearts content. Even with how sci-fi the show has gotten it still needs that every now and then. One of my favorite scenes from a few years ago was when either Shaw or Carter discovered all of the places Reese stored guns and ammo around the library and used them to rob some drug ring. And Finch and Reese are watching the surveillance video and Reese blurts out: "Wait....that's my grenade launcher!" He said it in a way that he sounded kind of hurt/upset about it. Grenade launcher comes back with same badass soundtrack. Also the same speech he gives to the thugs in season 1 he begins here but then is like "awww fuckit" and starts knee capping. I swear though that they either missed a scene or I wasn't paying attention because Shaw knocks him out in front of the main gangster guy (i think??) which makes it look like she's working with them. Then cut to a car and Shaw is scolding Reese for drawing attention to himself. I have no understanding how they extracted themselves from the previous scene. First off if someone has already shot a grenade launcher and thrown half a dozen people out of a building and shot the rest, then I think it is WAY TOO LATE to all of a sudden like be quiet and stealthy. The cat's out of the bag to say the least. Then take into account the last guy in the bar Reese has to knock out is supposed to be the ringleader (or is that a different character?). It would be about as "loud" to pistol whip that guy as it is to knock out Reese himself. And then is the ringleader just cool about Reese grenading him and kneecapping all those people? The next scene is Shaw and Reese in the car and the gangster guy isn't even trying to kill them he's forgotten about the whole thing and is still trying to kill the shop-owner's kid. I just feel like I missed something in that whole exchange, but who really cares it was totally worth it. One thing I would have LOVED to see is instead of the nondescript blonde, is for Kara Stanton to be Decima's version of Root. Think about it: 1. She previously worked for them and directly under Greer. 2. Although it's highly probable we don't know for sure that she died in the car bomb. She also survived the explosion in Ordos. 3. She's as lethal as Shaw. 4. She's as psychotic as Root. 5. She has a romantic past with Reese and trained him to be an assassin. Please please do this POI pasaluki fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 00:41
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I liked Root's self righteous speech to Finch because it could have been from her or the machine, and there's really no way to know.quote:Every life matters. You taught me that. The numbers, our identities, they all mean something, it all adds up to something. All of this matters, we all matter
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Sep 25, 2014 01:09
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The worst thing about this episode is that it forgets that without the Machine Reese has nothing to live for. I realize that's kind of been dropped from his character but it should have come back.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:22
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I thought it was a great episode, everything hit it just on point, we got to see how everyone was doing etc.. Also, Shaw at the end!! The machine does care.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:50
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sbaldrick posted:The worst thing about this episode is that it forgets that without the Machine Reese has nothing to live for. I realize that's kind of been dropped from his character but it should have come back. Wait what are you talking about? The whole point of the episode is Reese trying to get back into it because that's the only way he knows how to live. Right down to him equating it to survival at the end.
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Sep 25, 2014 02:52
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Josh Lyman posted:Did we see what Harold saw underground? I'm hoping it's The Machine. We never did find out where it sent itself. It's probably just another library though.
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Sep 25, 2014 04:47
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It's good to see the show back again after so long! I was wondering when Fusco would get a new partner, so I think this whole John partnership thing should work out. The unspoken moment with Carter's desk was nicely done. More Elias is always a good thing. And Scarface! Love that guy. He should definitely have taken a doggie bag of drugs home with him. I would have liked to see Samaritan as a more immediate real-world threat. We saw Shaw freak out over John's grenade tactics, but there was no fallout from it. If we had cut away to see Scary Blonde being paged, or a mercenary team mobilized, it would have better hammered in the brave new world they live in. It could add some fun tension in later episodes - do something loud to get Samaritan's attention, then run like hell until your star rating goes down.
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Sep 25, 2014 04:59
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Oh yeah: "You need to fill out a report, you fired your service weapon." "Wasn't my gun."  Show got back to form right quick.
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Sep 25, 2014 05:02
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We have not seen Dominic yet, have we?
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Sep 25, 2014 05:08
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We have not, I'm gonna go on a limb and assume he'll surface in the 4th episode of the season, titled "Brotherhood".
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Sep 25, 2014 05:11
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I'm not an engineer, and I do realise this is just a TV show but I'm curious, can a UHF antenna even transmit cell frequencies? Because I seem to remember something of the physics that suggested the size of the antenna had to be related to the frequency of the signal.
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Sep 25, 2014 05:56
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Very good article about the show by former AV Club turned Vox writer, Todd VanDerWerff.
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Sep 25, 2014 06:05
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Regy Rusty posted:This sounds boring and I'm glad they didn't do it. Agreed. Surely it's a bit early for people to be saying of the series "the first X episodes should be this, ramping up into the reveal of this, with an undertone of this ongoing thing" without knowing what the intention for this season is? They have already delivered us 3 cracking seasons, lets give them the benefit of the doubt that they know how to pace their own show and the story they want to tell.
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Sep 25, 2014 06:51
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pasaluki posted:
Eh, pretty sure Kara Stanton is dead. We see Snow hanging onto her about to explode, then we see an external security camera shot of the car with nobody getting out, then the car explodes in a huge fireball. It would be dumb to have someone survive that. While it might have been cool to see the team working with undercover identities, I'm not actually sure that's the smart thing for them to do. We don't really know exact details but I think the team can pretty much do absolutely anything and Samaritan won't notice them or mark them in particular as a threat no matter what. However, this blind spot only applies to Samaritan itself and to the members directly and not any of Samaritan's human agents or other people not part of Root's hacking. So as someone else said earlier, although Samaritan has no idea what's going on, if Team Irrelevant keeps acting like Team Irrelevant, and show up out of nowhere and leave a bunch of kneecapped bad guys and witnesses report a guy in a suit did it, Samaritan's human agents will connect the dots that Team Irrelevant is in some kind of blind spot, and simply hunt them down without the use of Samaritan. And it will be a lot easier to find them when they are going through the hassle of keeping up cover identities that don't really cover them from anything Root's hacking of the machine already covers. The real reason they have to be careful is how their actions affect other people, because I think the way it works is "John is about to shoot a guy" won't register on Samaritan but "A guy got shot" still does. Likewise "Shaw talking about taking down Samaritan" doesn't register but if someone overhears and says "Taking down Samaritan? What's that mean?" it will. Also Finch is an amazing professor, his first class lecture consists of telling the class his name and to make sure they got the syllabus, and "don't bother trying to gently caress me for a better grade, class dismissed."
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Sep 25, 2014 07:00
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pasaluki posted:Think about it: We've been over this already but the theory that she survived makes absolutely no sense. Like, at all. Both from an editing/directing sense, and based on what actually happened in the last scene and how she died. It would be a comic book-level retcon if the writers brought her back and would easily be my least favorite thing that this show's ever done by a mile.
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Sep 25, 2014 07:43
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I forget the black guys name from season 3, the leader of the anti-machine terrorist group, but is he still alive? I thought I saw him in a season preview. Could he be Dominic? Surely he would know to make a private network
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Sep 25, 2014 08:35
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stoops posted:I forget the black guys name from season 3, the leader of the anti-machine terrorist group, but is he still alive? I thought I saw him in a season preview. Could he be Dominic? Surely he would know to make a private network Decima killed Collier after the false flag reveal. The clip of him in that trailer is from 3x11 when Vigilance storms the bank Samaritan's code was originally stored in.
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Sep 25, 2014 08:49
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Also no Flashpoint or other series to distract Enrico. He's lead on a Canadian hospital show called Remedy. http://www.tv-eh.com/2014/09/15/remedy-season-2-in-production/
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Sep 25, 2014 11:31
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chaosbreather posted:I'm not an engineer, and I do realise this is just a TV show but I'm curious, can a UHF antenna even transmit cell frequencies? Because I seem to remember something of the physics that suggested the size of the antenna had to be related to the frequency of the signal. Higher frequencies have shorter wavelengths and therefore require shorter antennas. Anyway, those were VHF antennas (~30-300 megahertz) which mostly encompass the lower channel numbers of TV (2-7 were completely decommissioned from TV use, with the higher channels (8-13) only having limited continued use in select broadcast markets) and FM radio (still in use). If they were UHF antennas they could probably function on standard wifi/cell frequencies, but those would be open to monitoring from exactly the sorts of people the network's trying to avoid. They don't have to be transmitting cell frequencies, if you have the right equipment. Part of the reallocation of the VHF band was supposed to be for communications. It seems like there were two components of the system in the show: The "routers" which were just standard wireless access points (which is what the phones connected to), and the antennas which connected the routers to each other. If you have the right equipment (which is the only dubious part of the whole scheme, really) you can make two routers communicate with each other on any band. Generally it's done on standard FCC-approved microwave frequencies (somewhat near where standard WiFi is) but as mentioned above that would be traceable (and also subject to interference). Interestingly, part of the band reallocation was used in some jurisdictions for secure radio communications within law enforcement / homeland security / etc. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, it's been a few years since I've done anything with my licenses.)
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Sep 25, 2014 16:13
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Roflex posted:Higher frequencies have shorter wavelengths and therefore require shorter antennas. Anyway, those were VHF antennas (~30-300 megahertz) which mostly encompass the lower channel numbers of TV (2-7 were completely decommissioned from TV use, with the higher channels (8-13) only having limited continued use in select broadcast markets) and FM radio (still in use). If they were UHF antennas they could probably function on standard wifi/cell frequencies, but those would be open to monitoring from exactly the sorts of people the network's trying to avoid. Nice, thanks for the  , your theory makes a lot of sense. I love it when shows go the extra mile for technical details, one of the many reasons why I like PoI so much.
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Sep 25, 2014 16:41
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If you watch closely, it's clear that what was setup is a mesh wifi network. So they are on 2.4Ghz wifi, and then they are using encrypted voip. I don't think it is actually feasible to repurpose those sort of rooftop antennas for wifi, but making a city wide mesh network and running your own voip solution to defeat wiretapping is legitimate.
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Sep 25, 2014 17:36
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Maybe the machine just needs it for morse code/some blippy computer language and any ancillary voip benefits are just a bonus.
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Sep 25, 2014 17:43
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stoops posted:I forget the black guys name from season 3, the leader of the anti-machine terrorist group, but is he still alive? I thought I saw him in a season preview. Could he be Dominic? Surely he would know to make a private network I think we're supposed to believe that Vigilance got wiped out entirely as soon as Samaritan came online, since we see recognizable operatives getting gunned down in the finale. Collier's definitely dead as well.
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Sep 25, 2014 17:51
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Sub Rosa posted:If you watch closely, it's clear that what was setup is a mesh wifi network. So they are on 2.4Ghz wifi, and then they are using encrypted voip. I don't think it is actually feasible to repurpose those sort of rooftop antennas for wifi, but making a city wide mesh network and running your own voip solution to defeat wiretapping is legitimate. Well, if they used them as some sort of sixteenth-wavelength antenna (which is a thing, apparently) that would put it around 150MHz, smack in the middle of the VHF band. But I'd like to think the network backbone was actually running in the VHF band. Running on 2.4GHz would make it susceptible to interference and also make it interceptable by off the shelf equipment. e: I'm being an idiot. Wavelength is inversely proportional to frequency, so that 150MHz antenna would be sixteen times the wavelength of 2.4GHz, not one-sixteenth. Which, apparently would work (judging by some 1990s-era ham radio websites) - multi-wavelength antennas just aren't commonly used because they'd tend to be huge for the wavelengths in mind. Also, apparently, you'd get the best gain/results by using an odd-half multiple of the wavelength (3/2, 5/2, etc.) - a 27/2 wavelength antenna would be right between VHF channels 7 and 8. e2: Also apparently said odd-half multiple antennas would be highly directional. But it seems like there's enough antennas to make it work. e3: Of course just googling "wifi over vhf" reveals that there's actually off the shelf products that do just that. Xerol fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 18:22
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I really enjoy how NYC the solution is. You couldn't pull that off outside of a few major old world cities.
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Sep 25, 2014 19:11
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raditts posted:Me too, that sounds like a terrible idea. Why the hell would you want to watch multiple episodes of them not doing the things you watch the show for? Not so much that I didn't want to see them doing the things they always do, more that I wanted a bit of time between the whole "getting the band back together" thing. I know there should be a few months between this season and last, and that they aren't really all one big happy family again but John and Reese helping each other could have been something that they held off on for a few episodes. Actually I think I probably would have liked something like 24 used to do with a 2 hour block the first week and a 2 hour block the second but with only 12 episodes there's a third of your episodes in one go. I don't want to act like HBO or Netflix are the be all and end all of great TV, god knows there were people screeching to the heavens when Game of Thrones went a week with only "character development" but I wish sometimes they'd let us adjust to a new status quo before getting back into the episodic nature of a show; or business as usual. Zaggitz posted:I really enjoy how NYC the solution is. You couldn't pull that off outside of a few major old world cities. Although it seems the technology is possible, it was just believable enough to make you think it was plausible within the context of the show as well.
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Sep 25, 2014 19:47
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