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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:The problem is that it undermines what the NCAA is supposed to be doing. If they're not following their own rules, why should anyone else? If you want to long-term change the culture of sports, you need the NCAA to be a credible body. I would hope that the institutional coverup of child rape could be separated in the minds of others from calling a recruit during a silent period or something, but hey, to each their own. It's just tough, because I get the literal side of this but I feel gross focusing on anything that reduces backlash toward the university.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:52
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sportsgenius86 posted:When a football program is glorified by all to the point that several people are cool ignoring like three decades of child rape to protect its sustained success, I'm pretty okay with the NCAA saying "you know what, why don't you all just kind of sit back for a while and think about this" even if maybe it's not really in their rules to do. Yeah, the issue with Penn State was the "football above everything else, even child abuse" mentality. Clearly that mentality is still there since the student response to this was "Now give us back our statue and JoePa's wins!"
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Sep 9, 2014 16:52
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Mahoning posted:It's almost as if the NCAA rules were written without imagining the horror that could actually take place within an athletic program. Yeah well that actually is a big deal in regards to an organization created by agreement and bound by rules.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:53
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:That's straight up revisionist history. How so? Penn State certainly could have said "screw you" to the NCAA and taken their ball and gone home. Penn State agreed to abide by the suggestions of the Freeh Report.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:54
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sportsgenius86 posted:I would hope that the institutional coverup of child rape could be separated in the minds of others from calling a recruit during a silent period or something, but hey, to each their own. The problem is that the sanctions themselves did that all on their own. By interjecting themselves into the situation so capriciously, the NCAA turned the story onto them and their sanctions.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:54
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Thoguh posted:How so? Penn State certainly could have said "screw you" to the NCAA and taken their ball and gone home. I meant the last part of that statement. And to a degree the first.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:55
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I was as disgusted with that school and the way the student body acted over it a few years ago as anybody. But I think they've served their punishment and while I would not have backed off the sanctions early, I'm not outraged that the NCAA did so. They were punished financially worse than any school in history and were given harsh penalties in terms of bowl bans and scholarships. The program didn't die because they had a few guys there that did a remarkable job in terms of holding the program together, there's a lot of other programs that would have crumbled from this. All of this being said it's really hard for me be happy for the school while I read facebook. "YOU GAVE US OUR SCHOLARSHIPS YOU GAVE US OUR ELIGIBILITY NOW GIVE JOE PA HIS loving WINS BACK".
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Sep 9, 2014 16:55
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axeil posted:Yeah, the issue with Penn State was the "football above everything else, even child abuse" mentality. Clearly that mentality is still there since the student response to this was "Now give us back our statue and JoePa's wins!" This is true and shameful. But I don't believe this is the mindset of the majority of the board and the university administration. Certainly, there are a few Lubranos on the board, but this mindset doesn't represent the majority of the university governance. Thoguh posted:How so? Penn State certainly could have said "screw you" to the NCAA and taken their ball and gone home. Penn State agreed to abide by the suggestions of the Freeh Report. They did, and have already implemented 115 of 119 recommendations, which is sort of part of the reason Mitchell pushed for the restoration of scholarships and the removal of the bowl ban. It is important to point out here that this was not only an NCAA decision, but literally Mitchell's words. quote:I therefore make the following additional recommendations. First, I recommend that the Komet fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 16:56
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axeil posted:Yeah, the issue with Penn State was the "football above everything else, even child abuse" mentality. Clearly that mentality is still there since the student response to this was "Now give us back our statue and JoePa's wins!" It was about more than just football. Paterno protected Rene Portland (women's basketball coach) for years, despite knowing she was a mentally abusive, homophobic oval office.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:56
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Ty1990 posted:harsh penalties in terms of bowl bans and scholarships. They are emerging from this with less punishment than USC received.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:57
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When you hire James Franklin and your student body is using the sanction reduction as a reason to continue glorifying Paterno, I really wonder what, if anything, anyone learned from all of this.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:59
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Mahoning posted:It's almost as if the NCAA rules were written without imagining the horror that could actually take place within an athletic program. It's to bad we don't have a legal system that can address horrific crimes by identifying and punishing the responsible parties and awarding damages to the victims. Nope, if it wasn't for Mark Emmert's Lincoln-esque resolve and bravery, Sandusky would still be on the streets having a (literal and figurative) field day.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:59
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Frackie Robinson posted:It's to bad we don't have a legal system that can address horrific crimes by identifying and punishing the responsible parties and awarding damages to the victims. Nope, if it wasn't for Mark Emmert's Lincoln-esque resolve and bravery, Sandusky would still be on the streets having a (literal and figurative) field day. Exactly, which is why Ray Rice is still on the Ravens, and looking forward to a big game on Thursday. Because we have a legal system for dealing with domestic abuse and the NFL does not need to get involved.
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Sep 9, 2014 17:01
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Thoguh posted:Exactly, which is why Ray Rice is still on the Ravens, and looking forward to a big game on Thursday. Because we have a legal system for dealing with domestic abuse and the NFL does not need to get involved. Completely loving different. BI NOW GAY LATER fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 17:01
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sportsgenius86 posted:When you hire James Franklin and your student body is using the sanction reduction as a reason to continue glorifying Paterno, I really wonder what, if anything, anyone learned from all of this. I hear what your are saying, but Joepa died before he could be fully investigated, so there is always going to be some "plausible deniability" with regard to his involvement.
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Sep 9, 2014 17:02
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Komet posted:$60 million fine from the NCAA. $13M fine from the Big Ten. $60M and counting in settlements. At least a few millions dollars each to commission the Freeh Report and Mitchell's salary. The total is somewhere in the neighborhood of $150M. This is an enormous sum of money. Revenue != profit. And how much of that money is going towards your posting? When the entirety of the country wants your football stadium nuked and then repopulated with monkeys that have virulent strains of ebola/AIDS to ward off any potential visitors, you should probably stop whining about the pittance sum you have to pay to the groomed VICTIMS of Penn State child rape, the fine to the NCAA for the athletic department covering up child rape, and the reports to investigate just how widespread the covering up of the child rape was (very, very widespread). You still have your football team, which never would have happened with a competent NCAA.
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Sep 9, 2014 17:05
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Arkane posted:And how much of that money is going towards your posting?  I'm not whining about the fines. They are justified. I am simply stating that the sum is not insignificant. Certainly not a pittance.
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Sep 9, 2014 17:12
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:They need to literally spell out in their rulebook that they're allowed to punish a program for the non-sport related actions of administrators, yes. Doesn't the fact that the actions were taken to protect a sports program like football make it kind of sport-related??
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Sep 9, 2014 17:12
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I mean people still go to Catholic Churches for some reason. Of course you are going to see people still supporting Joepa.
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Sep 9, 2014 17:14
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Could probably easily make up the $12m a year by refusing to feed anyone in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM8H6d-ghI0
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Sep 9, 2014 17:18
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euphronius posted:I mean people still go to Catholic Churches for some reason. Of course you are going to see people still supporting Joepa. They typically don't support the bishops and cardinals who allowed abuse to continue though
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Sep 9, 2014 17:22
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Whodat Smith-Jones posted:They typically don't support the bishops and cardinals who allowed abuse to continue though WARNING: HOT TAKE http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/27/world/pope-canonization/
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Sep 9, 2014 17:25
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http://onwardstate.com/2014/09/08/reminder-the-ncaa-is-still-terrible/
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Sep 9, 2014 17:29
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This feels like an encore of the day when the punishment was handed down except we're not making fun of the Penn State fans enough
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Sep 9, 2014 17:46
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Whodat Smith-Jones posted:Doesn't the fact that the actions were taken to protect a sports program like football make it kind of sport-related?? Not really. It's a hard argument to make, and one the NCAA clearly didn't want to have since they did it all in executive committee and not along the lines as spelled out by their rules if they thought it was, actually, a violation of the rules. To be clear: I am fine with them stripping Paterno of his wins. I am not fine with them punishing players who had absolutely zero to do with a criminal case involving their coach and administrators.
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Sep 9, 2014 17:51
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Not really. It's a hard argument to make, and one the NCAA clearly didn't want to have since they did it all in executive committee and not along the lines as spelled out by their rules if they thought it was, actually, a violation of the rules. So you're not ok with USC's punishment either? Or any NCAA punishment since they usually all involve punishing the program well after everyone involved has moved on?
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Sep 9, 2014 17:56
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the NCAA should have punished Penn State by making Charlie Weis their permanent head coach for 10 years
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Sep 9, 2014 17:56
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quote:In fact, with no actual major NCAA infractions (a fact which still remains true), Penn State was (is) one of the most ethical universities with one of the most compliant athletic departments in the country. 
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Sep 9, 2014 18:00
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Mahoning posted:So you're not ok with USC's punishment either? Or any NCAA punishment since they usually all involve punishing the program well after everyone involved has moved on? Taking an inch a mile! Those are two, entirely unrelated issues; though I would prefer more of the punishment fall on the people responsible (and no, Pat Haden hasn't moved on, and they've only hired a continued litany of the same people involved in the Reggie Bush thing.) You see, USC actually broke NCAA rules regarding student-athletes and had a culture of non-rule compliance. Penn State did not, ever, actually violate an NCAA rule regarding student-athletes. You'll notice the bolded part of my statement, because apparently this is really hard to grasp: punishing players who had absolutely zero to do with a criminal case involving their coach and administrators.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:02
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I just watched the SMU 30 for 30 and man if there was ever any reason to drop the Death Penalty on a school it had to be this.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:04
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Taking an inch a mile! Those are two, entirely unrelated issues; though I would prefer more of the punishment fall on the people responsible (and no, Pat Haden hasn't moved on, and they've only hired a continued litany of the same people involved in the Reggie Bush thing.) USC didn't even really break any rules. Boosters gave Bush a bunch of gifts and a coach didn't really know about it. The punishment was because the school was snarky to the NCAA.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:06
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Taking an inch a mile! Those are two, entirely unrelated issues; though I would prefer more of the punishment fall on the people responsible (and no, Pat Haden hasn't moved on, and they've only hired a continued litany of the same people involved in the Reggie Bush thing.) Nobody forced them to stay at Penn State
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Sep 9, 2014 18:06
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weekly font posted:I just watched the SMU 30 for 30 and man if there was ever any reason to drop the Death Penalty on a school it had to be this. I really don't see why this doesn't register with people. Penn State didn't break a single NCAA rule. They were never investigated by the COI. They never had a hearing before the COI. They were never found guilty of an NCAA infraction. The NCAA acted on a capricious, whimsical impulse in extrajudicial fashion.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:06
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sportsgenius86 posted:Nobody forced them to stay at Penn State Not only that, but every play who was on the roster had a full year to transfer with no penalty. Nobody on the current roster was being punished for anything they weren't aware of before they signed on.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:08
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Bip Roberts posted:USC didn't even really break any rules. Boosters gave Bush a bunch of gifts and a coach didn't really know about it. The punishment was because the school was snarky to the NCAA. They knew about it and were found to be guilty of violating a series of explicit NCAA rules - the big difference there. That went though a judicial process in which they were found guilty. USC's punishment was so severe because it wasn't just the football program. It was a whole litany of issues at the school. Penn State wasn't put through that same process. Everything was done through executive committee in closed doors and essentially at the whim Mark Emmert, who of all people, really shouldn't throw stones in glass houses when it comes to being a corrupt rear end in a top hat willing to throw poo poo under the rug to help his own reputation. BI NOW GAY LATER fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 18:08
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sportsgenius86 posted:Nobody forced them to stay at Penn State Thoguh posted:Not only that, but every play who was on the roster had a full year to transfer with no penalty. Nobody on the current roster was being punished for anything they weren't aware of before they signed on. That's not the loving point and you know it. They shouldn't have had to in the first place. The NCAA should have never gotten involved the way they did. BI NOW GAY LATER fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 18:09
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The fact that Joe Paterno's stupid rape-covering corpse shuffled off into the grave instead of rotting in a jail cell is the biggest travesty. And it wasn't just JoePa, it was the entire football program. For decades. This didn't start happening in, like, April, and get found out in July. This started happening decades ago, people knew, and people complained that Jerry Sandusky was forcibly anally raping boys under the age of 12 in the football program's locker room. Joe Paterno knew this and did nothing. In fact, he continued to support Jerry Sandusky's program for "troubled youth" giving him more access to more young boys that he continued to forcibly anally rape. What was the final number that we know of? 18? Joe Paterno is dead and rotting in the ground with worms eating his brains, which is too good an ending for the worthless loving life of the piece of poo poo he was, and the whole old guard was kicked out, but excuse us if we thought there was some actual benefit to handing down punishments to the entire program as a warning and a message that a systemic covering up for the forcible anal rape of children will not be tolerated.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:12
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:That's not the loving point and you know it. We're going to hit full circle here soon if we haven't already.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:13
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The mock concern of "Don't you want the NCAA to be credible" is great though, it's like saying "Don't you want to see a unicorn"
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Sep 9, 2014 18:14
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:That's not the loving point and you know it. Then what is the point? You keep saying that to everything people post. What do you think the point is? I'll go first... The point is this whole thing happened 100%, entirely, and totally due to the Penn State Football Program. You can rules lawyer all you want about how technically it isn't because no student athletes were directly involved. But children were raped for years because it was more important to protect Penn State Football. And every single coach and player on the team signed on knowing full well what limitations Penn State Football was under. They aren't being punished. Penn State football was being punished, and they made a decision to be a part of it anyway. And don't just tell me "that's not the point". Tell me what the point is. Thoguh fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 18:15
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