The future of NATO, Russia, and Ukraine (HERE BE CLANCYCHAT!)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The future of NATO, Russia, and Ukraine (HERE BE CLANCYCHAT!)

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amanasleep: May 21, 2008

Warcabbit posted:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1990654819/paranoia-rpg The new edition has the enemy as 'Terrorists' instead of 'Communists'.

Communists are still in, Terrorists get more press.

gently caress, that's probably too awesome for me to avoid backing.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 21:04

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 13:22

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

My Imaginary GF posted:

Everything you post in this thread is the opposite of reality. Nobody in the region gives a poo poo about I/P issues any more; there are more important concerns.

Huh?

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/saudi-arabia-gaza-war-egypt-quiet.html

Like nuking Iran before they get a weapon, amirite :v:

I'm having a hard time believe that one of the single most volatile states in the region is 'not important anymore'

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Nov 10, 2014

# ? Nov 10, 2014 21:20

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

My Imaginary GF posted:

Everything you post in this thread is the opposite of reality. Nobody in the region gives a poo poo about I/P issues any more; there are more important concerns.

I can think of a few million people that probably care a lot.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 21:27

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

My Imaginary GF posted:

Everything you post in this thread is the opposite of reality. Nobody in the region gives a poo poo about I/P issues any more; there are more important concerns.

I think you confuse "being unable to actually do something about an issue and therefore concentrating on other issues" with "not caring about the issue at all".

# ? Nov 10, 2014 22:28

Mightypeon: Oct 10, 2013; Putin apologist- assume all uncited claims are from Russia Today or directly from FSB.

key phrases: Poor plucky little Russia, Spheres of influence, The West is Worse, they was asking for it.

Indeed, basically every middle easterner I know cares quite intensely about Palestine.

# ? Nov 11, 2014 15:50

Generation Internet: Jan 18, 2009; Where angels and generals fear to tread.

This seemed like the most apt place to post this:

Yuri Andropov posted:

In addition, we have an unfavorable economic situation on the world market, along with the discrimination [against the Soviet Union]. Banks have suddenly stopped giving us loans (USA, FRG [West Germany]). We are now negotiating with the FRG and France about the gas pipeline. This is beneficial for us and also for them. But the US is putting pressure on other countries, allegedly telling them that they will thus become dependent upon us. However, in the end, the business people [in the West] will prove stronger than the rulers.

From a meeting between the KGB and Stasi on July 11th, 1981.

# ? Nov 11, 2014 22:48

Fojar38: Sep 2, 2011; Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia

also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Hah.

"We'd be hosed if the capitalists didn't hold so much influence in the West. Thank god for that."

# ? Nov 12, 2014 00:29

Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

Generation Internet posted:

This seemed like the most apt place to post this:

From a meeting between the KGB and Stasi on July 11th, 1981.

Don't worry guys the capitalists will sell us the ropes we'll hang them with.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 02:06

Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

Mightypeon posted:

Indeed, basically every middle easterner I know cares quite intensely about Palestine.

The average Middle Easterner has very little influence on foreign policies though (ok except for when they riot).

I think the ruling class in the Arab world probably stopped caring about I/P sometime in the 1970s except as a useful rallying around the flag tool.

The I/P conflict is more or less a relic of another time when conflict in the Middle-East was on secular nationalist lines, something that has being getting less true every year since 1979. I think I/P has already stopped being the center of the Middle-Eastern conflict and will only decrease in importance with time.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 02:10

Ator: Oct 1, 2005

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/11/world/meast/iran-russia-nuclear/index.html

quote:

(CNN) -- Russia has announced plans to build new nuclear reactors in Iran -- a move with international repercussions as a deadline looms.
The country will construct up to eight new reactors for the "peaceful use of atomic energy" in Iran, Russian state news agency Ria-Novosti reported Tuesday.

Hi D&D. I came to this thread looking for insight as to why Russia is being such a dick lately. I still don't understand why Putin is doing these power grabs and saber-rattling. Isn't he rich enough? Can't Russia already build a decent future for themselves without having to bully their neighbors?

# ? Nov 12, 2014 03:51

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Ator posted:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/11/world/meast/iran-russia-nuclear/index.html

Hi D&D. I came to this thread looking for insight as to why Russia is being such a dick lately. I still don't understand why Putin is doing these power grabs and saber-rattling. Isn't he rich enough? Can't Russia already build a decent future for themselves without having to bully their neighbors?

I can literally feel the middle finger from Putin.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 03:56

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; Can't post for 3 hours!

Ator posted:

Hi D&D. I came to this thread looking for insight as to why Russia is being such a dick lately. I still don't understand why Putin is doing these power grabs and saber-rattling. Isn't he rich enough? Can't Russia already build a decent future for themselves without having to bully their neighbors?

Try the Eastern Europe thread, it's more informative. Generally speaking, Russian economy isn't very stable mid to long term. It appears that most of the things happening in Ukraine weren't intended beyond the initial annexation, but Russia is now committed- and the country and its leadership have heavily bought into their own propaganda.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 04:31

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Typo posted:

The average Middle Easterner has very little influence on foreign policies though (ok except for when they riot).

I think the ruling class in the Arab world probably stopped caring about I/P sometime in the 1970s except as a useful rallying around the flag tool.

Saying the ruling class doesn't care, and that no one cares, is very very different though.

Typo posted:

The I/P conflict is more or less a relic of another time when conflict in the Middle-East was on secular nationalist lines, something that has being getting less true every year since 1979. I think I/P has already stopped being the center of the Middle-Eastern conflict and will only decrease in importance with time.

"A relic of another time when conflict in the Middle-East was on secular nationalist lines"? We're talking about the same conflict right? The one which has been going on since the inception of Israel, a state whose existence and expansion is based around religious nationalism? Why can't the conflict just start leaning more into the religious side, instead of disappearing? Just because the outward expression of conflict in the Middle East might have changed does not mean conflict which have so far expressed themselves in another fashion would disappear, if the reason for the conflict is still there.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 07:15

Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Saying the ruling class doesn't care, and that no one cares, is very very different though.

"A relic of another time when conflict in the Middle-East was on secular nationalist lines"? We're talking about the same conflict right? The one which has been going on since the inception of Israel, a state whose existence and expansion is based around religious nationalism? Why can't the conflict just start leaning more into the religious side, instead of disappearing? Just because the outward expression of conflict in the Middle East might have changed does not mean conflict which have so far expressed themselves in another fashion would disappear, if the reason for the conflict is still there.

Israel's nationalism is pretty unique and I'd say started out as ethnic rather than religious. Several founders of Israel, such as Golda Meir and David Ben-Gurion were Atheists. On the other side, Palestinian nationalism was pretty secular as well, with Yassr Arafat likely an Atheist as well.

But you are right that the I/P conflict has desecularized just like the rest of the region, with both Israel and Palestine becoming much more religious.

The conflict will still be there of course, it's just that it's increasingly irrelevant as the pivot upon which the region will be spins around.

# ? Nov 12, 2014 22:35

Dilkington: Aug 6, 2010; "Al mio amore Dilkington, Gennaro"

# ? Dec 19, 2014 20:20

whatever7: Jul 26, 2001; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Ator posted:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/11/world/meast/iran-russia-nuclear/index.html

Hi D&D. I came to this thread looking for insight as to why Russia is being such a dick lately. I still don't understand why Putin is doing these power grabs and saber-rattling. Isn't he rich enough? Can't Russia already build a decent future for themselves without having to bully their neighbors?

Iran is incredible important pivot state in the ME region. Having a successful peace/nuckear treaty reached between US and Iran is 1) very important to the long term stability of ME and 2) very needed to the suffering Iranian people.

Unfortunately US is hellbent on not letting Iran get the bomb so the prospect of the nuclear talk is very shaky to begin with. Putin is basically helping out Iran's nuclear hobby in order to sign Iran up as long term buddy.

Both US and Iran have pretty moderate presidents currently. It's safe to say the next presidents from both countries will be more hostile toward each other, again.

# ? Mar 13, 2015 10:47

Bates: Jun 15, 2006

whatever7 posted:

Iran is incredible important pivot state in the ME region. Having a successful peace/nuckear treaty reached between US and Iran is 1) very important to the long term stability of ME and 2) very needed to the suffering Iranian people.

Unfortunately US is hellbent on not letting Iran get the bomb so the prospect of the nuclear talk is very shaky to begin with. Putin is basically helping out Iran's nuclear hobby in order to sign Iran up as long term buddy.

Both US and Iran have pretty moderate presidents currently. It's safe to say the next presidents from both countries will be more hostile toward each other, again.

Nukes in the ME would be a very bad thing.

# ? Mar 13, 2015 11:03