Legend of Grimrock 2 - Something Old, Something New, Something Borrowed

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Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Ihmemies posted:

Must I use all the skillpoints in char creation, or can I save them for later when I know more about the game?

Any unspent skillpoint are lost after character creation. This is a change from LoG 1. They did it for people who want the challenge of starting with zero skills.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2014 11:30

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 09:24

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Wafflecopper posted:

Is farmer intended to be a challenge class or just a slow-starting one? I took one first go since it sounded interesting, but no starting skill points meant he was pretty gimped early. I fed him most of the food I found which got him to level 3 before my other guys but that's still behind the others in terms of skill points. Can you abuse resting to spawn more turtles and farm them for food to bolster a farmer to crazy levels or something?

Standard RPG conventions would dictate that it's the latter, as opposed to the former. Generally, "Villager" classes that start with abysmal skills, but possess some kind of XP gimmick tend to be slow rolling late-game powerhouses.

But that's just my intuition. It's entirely possible they're just gimppy, through and through.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2014 13:34

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

I dunno, that looks eminently bearable to me.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2014 14:25

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

KazigluBey posted:

Is it possible to create a stash? Do dropped items or items placed in chests remain there forever?

Unless it's changed from the first game, yes. I remember lugging some dozen boxes of supplies with me every few levels to create a sort of mobile shanty town.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2014 14:31

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

I've found the alchemist works well as a secondard caster. He he less energy than my primary Wizard, but when he runs dry I can swap to gunning, and I'm a sucker for his class power that spawns herbs.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2014 20:37

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Do you ever gain the ability to fight under water?

Because it annoys the hell out of me that I can't kill these turtles and feast on their flesh.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2014 20:06

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Oh poo poo, Rats with Guns! We're in trouble now boys!

# ¿ Oct 17, 2014 20:21

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

adhuin posted:

After:
there's a secret room in the Sleet Island
involving the fly trap next to a sign saying "Danger"
Activate trap and enter one of the teleports.
And exit from a correct one.

I must be missing something here. I've existed all three teleports and the only thing I've found so far is the Stormseed Orb.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2014 22:35

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

So, playing on Hard and I gotta ask, am I the only person who runs an all ranged party? My front line is a Minotaur thrower and a Dex pumped Ratling farmer, back line an Alchy Gunner (with some water magic) and a Wizard. I just... don't get the point of tanking hits in melee when 99% of damage can be dodged with good footwork.

Cosmic Afro posted:

I may replace the missiler with an Alchemist to get access to Potions, but ehnnnn. I dunno.

You still get potions without an Alchemist. The only thing that governs what pots you can make is the alchemy skill, which anyone can take points in. The only reason to take an Alchemist is if you think his class traits are worth it.

Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Oct 19, 2014

# ¿ Oct 19, 2014 01:44

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Also, why does earth magic always suck in these games?

# ¿ Oct 19, 2014 01:47

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Fintilgin posted:

Think I'm going to drop my firearms alchemist in favor a rogue. ~~Might try a spellcasting alchemist instead of a mage?~~ Nope. Alchemist mana gain sucks. I guess I'll drop the alchemist altogether.

I think I'd do this if I restarted. I really, really wanted to love the Alchemist, but the inferiority of firearms and the merely modest supply of extra herbs aren't enough to make up for the burden he places on the rest of your party.

On the upside, the Farmer is living up to my expectations. He's already three levels ahead of everyone else and still gaining steam. Although I was dissapointed to learn that you can't savescum the Ratling's mutation trait

# ¿ Oct 19, 2014 02:25

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

The Farmer was an outstanding bit of design work.

"Hey, you know that one resource you're always hoarding and constantly terrified of running low on? Yeah, we're gonna go ahead and give you a class which makes that problem worse, suffer nerd!"

# ¿ Oct 19, 2014 02:42

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Fintilgin posted:

Farmer just seems so... silly.

He starts slow, but about around the mid-game point he starts to break even and just keeps getting better. His skill access is outstanding. If I were to start over I'd probably roll a human farmer and make him my alchemist/support caster.

Jordan7hm posted:

Really?

I honestly was overloaded with food to the extent I wasn't even picking it up when I didn't have a farmer.

Well, food in Grimrock 2 is a lot less scarce, but you don't realize it for a while and Grimrock 1 conditioned you pretty heavily to fear starvation, so the impulse is still there. I'm not happy unless I've got at least 3-4 sacks of rations on me, plus a decent reserve back at the hub. I keep worrying I'll hit a long stretch where the meals just dry up!

# ¿ Oct 19, 2014 03:46

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Jay Rust posted:

Also, could someone provide me with a hint for the "Hold your breath" puzzle in Sleet Island? I keep dying.

If you're standing on the pressure plate and waiting, then you're doing it right. It takes quite a while. I managed it without any deaths, but a couple of my dudders were below 25% when it finally opened.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2014 03:53

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

MegaCharger posted:

How does the alchemist's herb growing power work? You leave herbs in your inventory alone and it'll slowly go up in number automatically? Can you put the herbs into containers and have it still grow?

ymgve posted:

Let's talk herbs.

I've done a bit of research into how herbs grow in your Alchemist's inventory, and this is what I've seen so far:
- Growth is directly linked to the number of tiles you've walked, as shown under "Statistics" when you press escape.
- Herbs grow independently of each other. You can't give priority to one herb by removing all others from your Alchemist.
- This also means there's no disadvantage to keeping all kinds of herbs at your alchemist at all times.
- Number of herbs in your inventory doesn't matter. As long as you've got at least one of the specific kind, it will grow at the specified time.

Here's the time between grows for the herbs:
pre:
Blooddrop Cap     850 tiles
Etherweed         930 tiles
Mudwort          1950 tiles
Falconskyre      2500 tiles
Crystal Flower   4500 tiles
Blackmoss        around 5500 or 11000 tiles, not sure yet
Here's a list of the tile counts when specific herbs will grow:
http://pastebin.com/0wzqLr4C

(devs, feel free to correct any misinformation here)

As for putting them in bags, it almost certainly still works, but I've been too paranoid to try.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2014 05:02

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Motherfucker posted:

To everyone saying firearms are horrible try not resetting the game repeatedly you stupid idiot shits and you may find you are wrong!!

Nah, they're not wrong. I'm going to finish my current run with my gun alchemist, but if I ever do another play-through all the bullets I find are going in the dumpster.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2014 05:08

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

I think what this game really captures, better than anything else I've played since at least Skyrim, is the visceral enjoyment of exploration. There are so many secrets and discoveries, that I don't even feel bad about the ones I know I must be missing, because there are just so many things to find.

And a decent number of them are legitimately useful to your adventures. The game almost defies the concept of vendor trash. I can use nearly everything I pick up. I even horde rocks, Rocks! Because they're so drat useful.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2014 05:48

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Man, this game is huge. Every time I think I've starting to see the edges, more of it unfolds.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2014 03:25

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Baiard posted:

Does anyone know some confirmed locations for golden keys? I swear I opened a chest early in the game that had one, but it's nowhere to be found in my inventory and I have no idea what I would've used it on because I certainly don't have any special items. I'm worried I dropped it somewhere or died before I could save and forgot about the chest.

You can acquire one in the first area by giving the Rapier to a statue in the area with a wrecked ship (near where the healing crystal is). Odds are good you spent it to open the Gold Key door in the stone circle area where you fight the first boss, that's what I did with it, cause I didn't know how scarce Gold Keys were at the time. The chest behind the door you open has a dagger named "Backbiter," so if that's in your pile of gear somewhere that's probably what happened to it.

Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Oct 20, 2014

# ¿ Oct 20, 2014 03:33

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Baiard posted:

I'll check there. Not 5 minutes after my post, I found one dropping from a rat pirate guy. I guess they can drop them? It was in the Cache, maybe it's scripted and then another one at the exact south middle of the Hamlet, next to a tree in a dead end

The one that drops inside the cache is scripted, yeah.

So far as I know all the Gold Key drops and locations are fixed, since it's intended by design that you will never have enough of them to open every gold lock in the game.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2014 04:05

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Rascyc posted:

I feel like this doesn't even adequately convey the counter measures they built in for this one.

Enemies have various swing timers that vary from attack to attack, sometimes even more than two for some enemies. Everytime I start to snooze and think I've got it all down, I encounter an enemy pattern that is new. It is really quite remarkable what all they did.

It worries me about what else could be left for the series!

Well, their next game doesn't have to be Grimrock 3. I agreed with you that this game feels like a pretty definitive iteration of the engine and mechanics they're using. Maybe they'll move on to something else.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2014 06:15

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Kanos posted:

Some examples: Crabs can attack while moving sideways(because they're crabwalking ), stone elemental dudes seem to have a 360 attack, twigroots in the woods can roll one tile to the left or right and attack instantly, the mer-goblins in the intro area can do a horribly devastating leap attack if you're two tiles away from them in a straight line.

There's a ton more, but it's a lot spicier and more dangerous than "lure enemy to 2x2 junction, commence the jigglin'".

The shock for me was learning that the Ogres can now attack into adjacent tiles, not just the one they're facing.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2014 07:44

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Okay Grimrock, you want to spawn a poo poo TON OF SPIDERS in the area I just cleared, after I pick up a plot critical item? Fine, I can deal with that. You've established that dropping down from above is a legit way to transition floors in the Crystal Mine. You earned that respawn.

However! When you spawn a spider DIRECTLY BEHIND ME, so that I can't retreat into passage I just came form, that is Bullshit! I even quick loaded to check, it just spawns right on your rear end to block an escape. That is a no good, game! Don't do that!

# ¿ Oct 20, 2014 22:06

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Cuntpunch posted:

Welp I'm properly hosed:
I must have picked up the Serpent Staff and then dropped it somewhere and I don't know, but I have no idea where it is(heck it might even be inside a sack/chest that I dropped) and 10+ hours later from doing Herder's I find out I need it to get into Pyramid

Is there any sort of console command that I can just spawn it in or even to tell me where the gently caress it might be?

1. Go to Documents/Almost Human/Legend of Grimrock 2 and open grimrock.cfg
2. Find the lines;

code:

console = false
consoleKey = 220

and change them to;

code:

console = true
consoleKey = 192

3. Back in game press ~ to open the console and use the command spawn("serpent_staff") that should drop it right at your feet.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2014 02:01

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

F5 is my fifth party member.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2014 06:15

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Fintilgin posted:

Is it a bug that I can wield heavy weapons with one hand and a shield with the other despite not having five levels in heavy weapons?

Some heavy weapons are two-handed. I believe the Trait allows you to use those in one hand.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2014 19:54

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

seorin posted:

I'd say two barbarians is probably better than a barbarian and a knight. Every mage should have at least 3 concentration, more if you want a longer duration on utility spells like force field and shield. A good blaster mage is 5 fire 3 air, while a support mage is 5 water 1 air 1 earth. You should consider putting alchemy on one of your characters (even if you don't have an alchemist) to keep your mage stocked with energy potions.

And I'd say favor the Fire/Air Mage over Water, or Earth. Meteor Swarm is the only spell that comes close to matching the damage output of other characters, and has the benefit of being ranged, even if it is a mana hog. You can still easily spam if with someone skilling Alchy, which you ought to do, since Alchemy is good.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2014 23:38

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

seorin posted:

I have problems.

Well, they don't call them Farmers for nothing!

Seriously though, you've got problems. At that point why not just use the Console to stack on a bunch more levels?

Consider professional help, or at least a game that better rewards senseless grinding.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2014 01:03

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Rascyc posted:

Open the snake room imo. The rest are up to you.

^

Snake Charmer is worth it.

Aside from that the only one that has a best in slot item is the Wizard's cache. The items in the Thieves and Paladins are okay, but you can find comparable or better items pretty easily without spending a key.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2014 10:04

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Bobsedgws posted:

So I'm hunting achievements, and I've got two bits to find to get two of the full costume ones - the crystal legs and the archmage hat. Where are these hidden?

Crystal Leggings: They're on the second floor of the Crystal Mines, on an isolated square around the central pillar. You reach them by dropping down from the first level. Just mark the square they're on, put your finger on that spot, then move the map up one level and mark the same grid location of level 1. Then just jump or rope down to them.

Archmage Hat: In the south east quarter of the sewers. Off the room with the "Follow the Leader," spike trap. Down in the spike pit, 180 degrees from the second button in the sequence there is a switch to open the secret. Secret its self is in the far east corner of that chamber.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2014 11:03

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

On that topic, I'm astounded I didn't have to look either of those up to refresh my memory. It's incredible how indelible the various puzzles and their associated rewards are.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2014 11:05

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

So, does anyone have any data on out accuracy impacts chance to hit? I'm trying to figure out how many points my various characters need in the skill, but the game doesn't provide much to go on.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2014 20:06

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

What the hell does this lever do? It's just hanging out here in this shaft of light, and so far as I can tell flipping the bugger does absolutely nothing. It's driving me up the wall!

Marked at the X

# ¿ Oct 24, 2014 01:47

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Bucnasti posted:

As I recall it opens the secret passage right there to the left that leads back to the main chamber.

I thought there was a button that did that? Oh well.

Finished my run with all the secrets and treasures located. Game was fantastic. It's a throwback in the absolute best way possible. If I had played it back in the mid nineties I probably would have pitched a fit and given up half way through, but the ability to look up an answer when you get truly suck (or are two levels from the end and just want to go to bed) let them design some really cool poo poo. No idea where they'd even take the formula from here. As I said in an earlier post, this game is feels like the definite form of the grid based dungeon crawler. It is its ur-game.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2014 05:07

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Trujillo posted:

In the Desamune Ruins and the crabs are destroying me. Even my armored up front line dies in 2 hits. It really feels like I'm not supposed to be here yet but I can't find any other way forward. I probably spent 3-4 hours just wandering around the same areas hoping I find something I missed. What level are you supposed to be when you go down there?

I think I was somewhere between 9 and 12. Have you cleared our the Bog, Ruins, Stormbreach and the Crystal Mine? I did all of those before venturing into the cemetery. Also note, crabs are mearty as gently caress and soak tons of damage. Unless you're way over leveled and have a bunch of the best gear you should only be fighting them one at a time and avoiding most of their damage.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2014 05:10

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Trujillo posted:

The bog yes, but I missed all those other places apparently. I guess my 3-4 hours of wandering around was well spent. I'll just look up how to get to all those.

Ignore me, for some reason I though you were in the Cemetery. I'm dumb.

Crabs are just kind of a pain, but at least you can dance around them. Don't worry, it gets worse later.

Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Oct 24, 2014

# ¿ Oct 24, 2014 05:39

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

lesbian baphomet posted:

Character strength is so largely gear-based that they'd be honestly kind of difficult to face-tank regardless, so don't even bother trying to fight them like you'd fight all the normal chumps you've seen up until that point who your party could just overpower. Poison Bolt is extremely useful for kiting them, if you have it, or a strong ranged spell like Fireball if not.

Even with my frontline toting full Crystal and Meteorite in the end game I still couldn't take more than a hit or three to the face from some of the more serious enemies before needing a potion. The designers clearly know how powerful footwork is in this game, and they scaled the damage accordingly.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2014 06:48

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

FrickenMoron posted:

For an ironman hard run, would a minotaur rogue or alchemist be more useful in the long run? I kind of want the super high crit chance of the rogue with thrown weapons, but alchemist basically means lots of free healing/stat potions.

I think the Rogue. It really doesn't feel like the Alchemist's mediocre combat contribution is made up for by the handful of extra potions you receive. Worse, he actually scales down on subsequent play-throughs, since you already know your way around and as such are taking fewer steps, which in turn means fewer free reagents.

Edit: Unfortunately none other classes can really touch the Rogue and Barbarian in terms of power. Having one of their traits provide a damage boost that scales with level just makes them so much better. As for everyone else; the Fighter, Wizard and Farmer at least have some potential utility that can make them useful with the right grinding or gear, but the Knight, Alchemist and Battle Mage are just sort of rubbish.

Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Oct 24, 2014

# ¿ Oct 24, 2014 18:10

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Jordan7hm posted:

His power is kind of bleh though, and he gets outpaced by equipment upgrades later on.

This is what flatlined the class' potential for me. At least the generic Wizard can carry their weight in the late game by equipping Archmage's and spamming energy Pots, but the Battle Mage just doesn't have an answer to other front liners strapping on Bane or the Meteor Hammer and wrecking face.

He falls into the classic hybrid trap for being spread too thin. He wants to wear +eng gear to support casting often enough to make giving up his weapon slot for a staff seem like a justifiable choice, but he also needs prot gear, since he's designed go on the front row. Since there is no +eng Heavy Armor he simply cannot do both and so fails at the thing his class is designed for past roughly the game's midpoint.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2014 18:35

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 09:24

Skippy McPants: Mar 19, 2009

Jordan7hm posted:

I think he could be ok being your meteor hammer carrier. He makes sense to get fire from an early stage and you could go 1 fire 5 concentration 4 armor 5 heavy weapons and a couple points of accuracy. He'd have enough mana to shoot the hammer special more than once.

I was thinking about that, but then you give up his +prot bonus for carrying a staff, which is... pretty much all they've got going. A Fighter with 1 point in Fire would make a much better weirder, since he has better stat growths for the front line and the cost reduction on his class trait would also let him fire it more than once, in addition of making it charge up faster.

Jordan7hm posted:

I'm pretty underwhelmed by magic's damage potential late game, spells are just so fiddly when the action gets heavy.

I have no trouble justifying one caster, since Meteor swarm is very consistent. Good base damage, ranged, never misses. The only downside being that a handful of enemies are immune. You also get the benefit of an endgame gear set designed to support a dedicated caster, and the +40 Resist All granted by Archmage's is very compelling for a back line character. That's in addition to all the utility to get from the concentration tree. Past that though, there isn't really enough gear to support a second caster, and as you point out spells are a bit tricky to cast while Square Dancing(tm).

Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Oct 24, 2014

# ¿ Oct 24, 2014 18:46

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