Aviation Megathread | "It is not a pilot shortage. It is a pay shortage"

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Aviation Megathread | "It is not a pilot shortage. It is a pay shortage"

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

ethanol posted:

Please, let's not get into the dreamcrushing. I am seeking funding for flight training not asking if I should follow my dreams or get a second degree for the hell of it. I can afford to get my ppl and am currently doing so. Obviously I have put way, way more thought into it than 'a few hours of this is fun'. Let's leave that at that.

Now I know it is confusing but all my reasoning for halting paying the local part 61 school for now... is that a short degree program may be cheaper than paying for straight part 61 flight training because of the unique way student financing works in the US these days. that's the point of a asking you guys these questions. I don't want to appear smug but this preliminary cost number ($75,000) for flight training AND a two year degree is still less than half the cost of my bachelors degree and I managed to pay for that that and only came out with 17 k in debt. Add grants and federal loans, that 75k becomes very doable. Funding for school can come in the oddest ways. Funding for a non academic part 61 is nonexistent by comparison. All out of pocket.

Two years minimum to regionals sounds exactly right to me though. I wa thinking more like 2-4 years. I think it's time I start contacting financial aid offices and see what kind of finacial aid packages are available. There may very well be not enough, in that case I'll just resume my part 61.

more debt for the debt god

# ¿ Jan 4, 2015 14:42

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 11:05

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

I'm going to regret interrupting this circlejerk, but...

Just loving apply for a UPT slot at a guard unit. In the ANG your only job is to fly, you don't have your entire life run by the military, and you basically get a part time job in a flying club flying super expensive poo poo either flying all over the world doing legit cool poo poo (heavies), flying fast high performance jets (fighters), or doing low level badass poo poo saving lives (helos). You also spend a lot of time around super experienced guys who are most likely in the airlines and will sponsor your dumb rear end to a major with like 15 internal recommendations to FedEx or Delta or whatever. And it costs drat near nothing. You submit a package to a unit when they accept applications, you meet a board, and they select you. You then go to one of two of the best pilot training programs in the entire world flying multimillion dollar aircraft, and then eventually go to your unit where you spend 1 or 2 years full time with the all the insane benefits that come with the military.

But, no, totally just take on like 100k of debt on an irreversible decision and spend your entire adult life paying it off with the standard of living of a crackhead in The Wire just because apply for loans is easy, and pushups are hard.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2015 11:06

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

So, wait, let's not do it because it's hard and you might not get picked? I'll take a 10% chance of getting picked for something that catapults me to where I want over taking on insane amounts of debt for a "sure thing". And I would apply for every single guard unit that would have me all over the country. 90% non-select rate is pretty high, but you apply to 10 units and 90%^10 is only 35% chance of failure. Your chances are 0% if you just sit around and do nothing.

And yes, a PPL is pretty much an unwritten requirement, but a PPL isn't that hard to get on your own, come on.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2015 11:41

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

drat, you guys are overly sensitive.

Rekinom fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Jan 16, 2015

# ¿ Jan 5, 2015 12:43

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

xaarman posted:

It depends. The averages are posted, but my friend was hired with 2400 hours TT, 1400 PIC, and 1100 Instructor hours. All high performance multi engine turbine time.

Rule of thumb for immediate competition is 3000 hours, 1000-1500 TPIC. 2000 TT for fighter guys. Right now they are taking all Tier 1 applicants (3500+ TT, 1000 hours instructor time, Safety school, Evaluators, etc) but that pool is starting to dry up.

Most guys who are leaving after their initial commitment have 2500-3500 hours with some variation of that above. We also log time differently (TO to LDG only, no taxi time included) so most airlines give us a multiplier... typically .3 per sortie.

You can't possibly be worried about this. Hell, I'm closing in on 3k and I still have 3 years left.

If you don't have the competitive mins, just join whatever guard unit will hire you, and take a couple of deployments to the desert until you get it.

Then again, I am totally banking on affirmative action to get me to the top of the stack, so w/e.

# ¿ May 9, 2015 10:52

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

Captain Apollo posted:

Okay I won't be so shadowy here. Maybe I'm Misunderstanding

If Xaarman is complaining about low hours, and he's an Air Force pilot, then why do you think joining the Air Force would have helped?

Because a Lt Col is a guy who has been in for 15-ish years and doesn't even have enough hours. Although xaar is a bit short, at least he's in the ballpark and has only been in for like half that time. I've only been in 1 year longer and I'm at the average already. Air Force tends to get a lot more hours than the other branches.

He is expressing regret that he won't even be in the ballpark for a very, very long time because he's not AF.

# ¿ May 14, 2015 08:53

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

xaarman posted:

In the USAF, the two most dangerous crewmembers are two instructors flying together. Why? Because they have enough experience to be complacent and both assume the other one will speak up/save the day if something is starting to go wrong.

You know who is the safest? The brand new PIC who is going over everything 100x to make sure all actions are complete, safe, unadventurous and by the book.

Hope this is a bit of perspective for you.

I have never seen that true in practice. An unsupervised brand new PIC is almost always the far bigger liability in the aircraft.

The most dangerous crewmembers are AC's and IP's that got upgraded for career purposes, but lack proficiency due to their staff job. Paired with a copilot who doesn't know [yet] how much his PIC sucks at flying.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2016 06:38

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

xaarman posted:

Valid, perhaps I should have reworded to the more experience pilots have, the more vulnerable they are to complacency. I am trying to think of a list of USAF accidents that had IPs on board where no abnormalities existed. Coming to mind are the C-17 gear up landing (2x IP PIC), C-17 Alaska crash 1x IP, C-130 MAFFS crash (5600 hours between the two IPs; no aircraft abnormalities), but I am sure I'm forgetting some.

I would say the "not should have been upgraded but still was because reasons" is less than Class A accidents, but I only have anecdotal evidence to back that up.

Well, maybe I'm biased because of Shell 77, not that that guy sucked.... but he was way more rusty than he should have been.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2016 21:02

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

I'm making the jump to a legacy airline but I'm questioning my choice to do reserves for the Air Force. Before I got hired the common wisdom was "omg don't go civilian without furlough protection because this will all come crashing down any minute now".

But now I see guard/reserve dudes dropping their part time jobs left and right because it's not even worth the trouble and sure as hell isn't worth the lack of pay.

Idk, i figure i owe the reserves at least a shot at winning me over, but im skeptical.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2017 03:21

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

I don't think anybody involved anticipated the cop being as rough as he was.

In hindsight, I'd tell the cops as soon as they decided they needed to get physical, to let me know. Then i would make all the pax get off the plane. Then I'd reboard them minus whoever needed to get bumped.

"Everyone going to Louisville, step forward.

Whoa, not so fast, Doctor Feelgood"

Also don't believe the hype about JB. Go to page 33.

https://cms.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/2016AugustATCR_0.pdf

Yeeeeeaah, they deny tons of people, mostly involuntarily.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2017 05:31

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

Pryor on Fire posted:

Dumb question for those of you in the industry: are United employees affected by this at all? Like does the crew think "jesus christ I want no part of this poo poo" and quit ever after an incident like this, or is it all just "keep punching the clock no matter what?"

A few years ago a tech company I was consulting at got linked to and implicated in a bunch of government surveillance programs, and about half the team quit over two years because they just didn't want to participate in that. Uber is another good example, they have lost hundreds of employees over the past few months due to their bad behavior. Does the same thing happen in airlines to any extent? Does anyone at United actually give a poo poo and want to quit or is that just not a thing that happens?

Doubt it. Pilots at multiple carriers seem 100% convinced it will blow over within a week because social media outrage lynch mobs had proven time and time again to be retarded and fickle. Even if they wanted to, there aren't enough jets that exist in America to take over UAL's market share. Might shave a percentage point or 2 off of the 2Q earnings though.

Also, Uber is mostly staffed by 20-30 year olds who will overreact because they hop jobs every 2 years anyway, while an airline is mostly 40-50 year olds that have been working there for years who have families and lives they don't want to uproot.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2017 02:25

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

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~ colt 45 ~

Two Kings posted:

Ironic that it is also one of the most heavily and staunchly unionized professions in the US.

Well, not to get all political, but the liberal movement has been diverging from the labor movement since like NAFTA. Hence why the rust belt went for Trump and put him over the top for electoral votes.

# ¿ May 2, 2017 15:14

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 11:05

Rekinom: Jan 26, 2006; ~ shady midair gas hustler ~

~ good hair ~

~ colt 45 ~

fordan posted:

The FAA lets those of us down here log PIC time anytime we are the sole manipulator of the controls for an aircraft in which we are rated, even if not acting as actual PIC. In IMC receiving training? log PIC. No medical, no current flight review getting refresher training? log PIC.

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/learn-to-fly/legacy-pages/aviation-subject-report-logging-pilot-in-command-pic-time

Yeah, when it comes to logging time to qualify for a rating, sole manipulator counts. But when it comes to logging time on an application to get a job, most places don't give a poo poo unless you actually signed for the jet.

Same deal with simulator time.

# ¿ May 17, 2017 19:40

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Aviation Megathread | "It is not a pilot shortage. It is a pay shortage"