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Beef Waifu posted:Archer is Kiritsugu, get owned people against utilitarianism. But Kiritsugu doesn't believe in utilitarianism, he just practice a form of it because it was the only realistic way for him he knows of to get anywhere.When he finally realized how fruitless his effort was, he chased for the Holy Grail to try to create such world without need for such sacrifice. Randomzx fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 19:18
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And how'd that turn out for him?
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Oct 6, 2014 19:20
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Beef Waifu posted:And how'd that turn out for him? Better than it could have, all things considered.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:53
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ViggyNash posted:I know Rin is supposed to be hardcore tsundere and stuffed full of pride, but her cute act and excessive blushing was not what I expecting at all. I guess that was to make her more appealing to... you know. Hopefully this changes. I'm pretty sure this is just the newer characterization of Rin. You know from Fate Zero that she was a totally normal loving daughter, which changes her FSN character a bit from just a cold bitch who secretly wants her anus dominated. Because she is a Magus from a famous bloodline she tries to remain aloof and professional in order to be a proper Master/mage. The blushing happens because inside she's still a soft person/kind hearted so she can't handle genuine compliments and refuses to be ruthless like a proper mage etc. That's my take on it anyway.
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Oct 6, 2014 20:03
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Beef Waifu posted:And how'd that turn out for him? Well he did save the world and live to tell about it, even if an entire town had to burn down to do it!
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Oct 6, 2014 20:03
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Eej posted:a cold bitch who secretly wants her anus dominated Uuuuh, what? I mean, the VN did make her (and every other female character) kinda slutty because they wanted to pornify it, but that's definitely not her core personality.
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Oct 6, 2014 20:11
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I swear to god, if this page is about porn again...  Super Jay Mann posted:Well he did save the world and live to tell about it, even if an entire town had to burn down to do it! And his wife and mistress died, he's not allowed to see his daughter anymore, he raised a VN protagonist...
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Oct 6, 2014 20:13
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His greatest enemy is literally living down the street from him. EDIT: Compendium posted:he raised a VN protagonist... One that is cooler than him in every way. Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 20:27
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Beef Waifu posted:His greatest enemy is literally living down the street from him. His greatest enemy lives in the same house as him! (it's himself)
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Oct 6, 2014 20:57
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Blhue posted:I think this gets infodumped in the next episode or two, but basically most of the servants are copies of souls summoned from something that exists outside time, that acts is kind of a hero afterlife. There are exceptions though, and I don't think it ever explains in depth why that's the case. They explain why there are exceptions. But basically the Grail Ritual just summons spirits powerful enough to fill it's criteria, and if they come from somewhere other than Hero Afterlife (or Villain afterlife, which I believe was stated to be a different place) the Grail is fine with that. Especially sense the 3 families have meddled with it to try and gain advantages (which is also another reason why there are exceptions).
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Oct 6, 2014 21:18
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ViggyNash posted:Uuuuh, what? Well the dumb porn scenes are part of their original characterization and let's be real, it's not like "haughty bitch who secretly wants to be dominated by a man" isn't a stereotype that is uncommon in this kind of stuff.
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Oct 6, 2014 21:29
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Eej posted:Well the dumb porn scenes are part of their original characterization and let's be real, it's not like "haughty bitch who secretly wants to be dominated by a man" isn't a stereotype that is uncommon in this kind of stuff. That's still not an accurate characterization of Rin, though.
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Oct 6, 2014 21:52
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Silver2195 posted:That's still not an accurate characterization of Rin, though. Yeah, even in FSN's original incarnation, the whole point was that Rin is really a nice person. Even Shirou, the brickhead, noticed that.
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Oct 6, 2014 21:54
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ChronoReverse posted:Yeah, even in FSN's original incarnation, the whole point was that Rin is really a nice person. Even Shirou, the brickhead, noticed that. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 22:26
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Beef Waifu posted:My apologies for being so rude. It's cool man  As a preface, I'm an animewatcher, so most of this is speculation. With that in mind, I just took Rin's behavior as being a teenage girl, not as a precursor to manafucking. There won't be any manafucking, so its safe to say she might be portrayed and characterized a little differently than in the VN. And of course, to show the contrast between her and her father right from the start. I have no clue! I can't wait for Kotomine to show up and start shattering worlds and being a total rear end in a top hat to everyone. I hope Waver shows up somehow, too, even if it's a cameo. Him and Rider's arc was one of my favorite things about F/Z.
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Oct 6, 2014 22:46
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Eej posted:Well the dumb porn scenes are part of their original characterization and let's be real, it's not like "haughty bitch who secretly wants to be dominated by a man" isn't a stereotype that is uncommon in this kind of stuff. Don't quote me on this, but weren't the porn scenes shoehorned later on or something like that? And that Nasu never wanted those in the game in the first place?
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Oct 6, 2014 23:05
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ViggyNash posted:Don't quote me on this, but weren't the porn scenes shoehorned later on or something like that? And that Nasu never wanted those in the game in the first place? They were, pretty much. VNs at the time could only really "sell" using those. It's kinda why they come out of no where. So with or without that, what you see of the heroine's personalities is really what you'll get.
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Oct 6, 2014 23:08
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People think Rin being a great big dork is new?
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Oct 6, 2014 23:27
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Rodyle posted:People think Rin being a great big dork is new? I was complaining that the big dork part of her was being underplayed for an out of character, cutesy tsundere act.
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Oct 6, 2014 23:43
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Regardless, there hasn't been any change in characterization at all. Whether or not the VN origins really matter or because all you've seen is F/Z. It kinda comes with the fact she's kinda super awkward with people after she willingly chose to distance herself from everyone because of her role as a magus.
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Oct 7, 2014 00:01
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Rin's characterization didn't seem that different to me. I just assumed it seemed more emphatic because you don't actually get to see her in motion in the VN - of course her reactions are going to seem stronger, blushing and looking away has more impact in animation than swapping out a still for another still and having some text that says "Humph!". She was pretty flustered in the VN at Archer's praise, too. And she still seemed pretty dorky to me. But it's also been literal loving years since I played the prologue so v  vI liked the change a lot, personally. It makes the relationship between her and Archer seem even more endearing and playful. (Significant spoilers from the UBW route of the VN) Which means Archer's actions later on (ie with Caster) will hurt the viewer/Rin even more. But really, it's too early to tell either way - seeing Rin interacting with Shirou, especially in the next few episodes with her explaining things to him, will give us a much better idea of the way her characterization will be laid out in the anime.
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Oct 7, 2014 00:04
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ViggyNash posted:I was complaining that the big dork part of her was being underplayed for an out of character, cutesy tsundere act. Presenting Rin isn't underplaying her being Rin. also ViggyNash posted:I mean, the VN did make her (and every other female character) kinda slutty because they wanted to pornify it, but that's definitely not her core personality.
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Oct 7, 2014 00:18
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Oct 7, 2014 00:22
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Rin also has the objectively best Dojo Mode.
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Oct 7, 2014 00:28
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Rodyle posted:Rin also has the objectively best Dojo Mode. Predictably, Pixiv is buzzing with great fanart (even more than usual) after the premiere. (It's okay to post fanart here as long as it's not creepy otaku bullshit, right?)  (source)  (source)  (source)  (source)
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Oct 7, 2014 01:04
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As long as it doesn't reach a kill la kill thread level, sure.
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Oct 7, 2014 01:18
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I stopped watching FSN because I kept wanting to punch Shirou in the face. Is he less punchable this time around?
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Oct 7, 2014 01:50
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LiquidRain posted:I stopped watching FSN because I kept wanting to punch Shirou in the face. Is he less punchable this time around? Depends why you wanted to punch him, but probably.
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Oct 7, 2014 01:51
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ViggyNash posted:Don't quote me on this, but weren't the porn scenes shoehorned later on or something like that? And that Nasu never wanted those in the game in the first place? People say this, but it isn't true. The big change that he had to be encouraged to make was to swap the genders of the characters. Originally the protagonist was a girl who summoned a male Servant. But there were still h-scenes, and his publisher convinced him it would be easier for players to identify with a male MC. I think the reason Mahoyo doesn't have any h-scenes is that Nasu is famously terrible at writing them, and he knows it. LiquidRain posted:I stopped watching FSN because I kept wanting to punch Shirou in the face. Is he less punchable this time around? The original FSN anime didn't really show off his good traits as a character. He comes off as whiny and kind of misogynist, when he's really a complicated, likeable and well-developed character. This is partially the fault of the original story, partially the fault of DEEN. Vengarr fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 02:11
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Rodyle posted:Rin also has the objectively best Dojo Mode. drat right.  Shirou is interesting and good in a somewhat subtle that hasn't survived an adaption yet, so he gets an unfair rep imo.
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Oct 7, 2014 02:19
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Vengarr posted:I think the reason Mahoyo doesn't have any h-scenes is that Nasu is famously terrible at writing them, and he knows it. Go watch Zvesda, Meteor is the best. Scrree posted:drat right.
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Oct 7, 2014 02:32
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Vengarr posted:People say this, but it isn't true. The big change that he had to be encouraged to make was to swap the genders of the characters. Originally the protagonist was a girl who summoned a male Servant. But there were still h-scenes, and his publisher convinced him it would be easier for players to identify with a male MC. Note: still does not apply in Fate route.
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Oct 7, 2014 03:10
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Fate Shirou is kind of a weird beast in that in a vacuum he's terrible at worse and boring at best but in the greater context of the whole story has a role that does make sense. Makes his full character arc have a bit more impact, which is one of the most memorable parts of FSN. But it still results in you seeing the least of him right out of the gate which can be problematic and taxing on the audience in a story as long as this. Talking about Takeuchi is an interesting segue from that Nasu interview from before; some of this might be hearsay but it seems like just about everything he's written or rumored to have written has been awful and/or pointless. Dude needs to stick to drawing.
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Oct 7, 2014 03:29
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Vengarr posted:The original FSN anime didn't really show off his good traits as a character. He comes off as whiny and kind of misogynist, when he's really a complicated, likeable and well-developed character. This is partially the fault of the original story, partially the fault of DEEN. He was hella misogynistic in the first route of the VN and there's no way around that. He kind of eventually had to come to terms that his way of how backwards his way of thinking was, but he perhaps didn't grow as a character so much as begrudgingly accept that maybe Saber is more capable of protecting herself than he is. Anyways, in the route this show is adapting, he isn't nearly as bad. He exhibits much more personal growth, and his lows aren't nearly as low.
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Oct 7, 2014 03:48
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Nate RFB posted:Talking about Takeuchi is an interesting segue from that Nasu interview from before; some of this might be hearsay but it seems like just about everything he's written or rumored to have written has been awful and/or pointless. Dude needs to stick to drawing. Not disagreeing, but seems he's more of an ideas guy than Nasu is. From what I understand, he's better at the marketing side of things than Nasu is, which is where ideas like turning King Arthur into a girl came from. Even if you disagree on that, it was a winner as far as getting some heads turned in Type-Moon's direction when Fate was new. Though, how much an "ideas guy" helps for a company whose sole big product is basically very long-winded books is probably negligible. No matter how many good ideas you have, when your product is VNs you have to have a writer that people want to read.
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Oct 7, 2014 03:51
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ChronoReverse posted:Yeah, even in FSN's original incarnation, the whole point was that Rin is really a nice person. Even Shirou, the jackhammer, noticed that. I would be stoked if Shirou took the back seat for this one though, and let Rin do the driving. Despite being not nearly as terrible and/or boring in UBW, I'd prefer Rin as an MC much more.
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Oct 7, 2014 04:00
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Takeuchi is genuinely a pretty creepy guy. His discussion of the origins of Hisui and Kohaku from Tsukihime is, er, interesting (although I'm inclined to agree with Nasu that he's BSing at least a little here): http://tsukikan.com/misc/kanwatsukihime/09.html Also relevant because Nasu seems to acknowledge Takeuchi's brand-savvy "ideas guy" role while making fun of him for it. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 04:21
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Okay, I'm gonna have to ask that like... people not talk about characters that show up outside of episodes we've seen. Even though we know Kirei is in the show from just like Rin's description and him talking to her. We are mentioning too much of like "If X Character has a proper character arc or not, how good x character is, how big is Shiro's dick, etc." I have to ask we not bring up Fate either despite the fact it's not going to be covered. There's too much that's covered in it that effects the other two arcs that will probably be covered by the anime. Just like, be careful about what you say. I feel like we've been towing the line a bit and these paragraphs on paragraphs of discussion of stuff are getting a bit ridiculous.
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Oct 7, 2014 05:14
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Silver2195 posted:Takeuchi is genuinely a pretty creepy guy. His discussion of the origins of Hisui and Kohaku from Tsukihime is, er, interesting (although I'm inclined to agree with Nasu that he's BSing at least a little here): http://tsukikan.com/misc/kanwatsukihime/09.html This is hilarious though, I love the tag-team they have going on of Takeuchi suggesting creepy poo poo and Nasu rolling his eyes, humoring him, and making something cool despite him.
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Oct 7, 2014 06:26
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:He was hella misogynistic in the first route of the VN and there's no way around that. He kind of eventually had to come to terms that his way of how backwards his way of thinking was, but he perhaps didn't grow as a character so much as begrudgingly accept that maybe Saber is more capable of protecting herself than he is. Anyways, in the route this show is adapting, he isn't nearly as bad. He exhibits much more personal growth, and his lows aren't nearly as low. I'd argue this, but... Beef Waifu posted:Okay, I'm gonna have to ask that like... people not talk about characters that show up outside of episodes we've seen. Even though we know Kirei is in the show from just like Rin's description and him talking to her. We are mentioning too much of like "If X Character has a proper character arc or not, how good x character is, how big is Shiro's dick, etc." I have to ask we not bring up Fate either despite the fact it's not going to be covered. There's too much that's covered in it that effects the other two arcs that will probably be covered by the anime. This, but we don't have a proper Fate thread because...I don't know why. Visual novels are too spicy a topic for SomethingAwful.com?
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Oct 7, 2014 09:08
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