Costello Jello posted:

I've known alcoholics who drank so much that they only friends they had left were just drinking buddies, and alcoholics that couldn't handle being around any alcohol ever. And I've known more alcoholics that never got to that level for either. Every person is an individual and it's pretty dumb to condemn an organization that by definition of being an organization has scenarios to cover all bases.

Costello Jello posted:

I've known alcoholics who drank so much that they only friends they had left were just drinking buddies, and alcoholics that couldn't handle being around any alcohol ever. And I've known more alcoholics that never got to that level for either. Every person is an individual and it's pretty dumb to condemn an organization that by definition of being an organization has scenarios to cover all bases. Your friends aren't "doing AA wrong" by choosing the parts that are helpful to them. That's just stupid as hell.

Jimbo Jaggins posted:

Do you not think going to meetings and discussing your alcoholism with other alcoholics as sort of mutual support group isn't in any way benficial?

SniperWoreConverse posted:

my deranged neighbor is real big into AA cause he started drinking when he was 11 or what the hell ever....

c0ldfuse posted:

Holy poo poo there's a lot of callousness in this thread.

People who have serious problems are trying to fix their lives, who gives a gently caress about their methodology.

c0ldfuse posted:

Holy poo poo there's a lot of callousness in this thread.

People who have serious problems are trying to fix their lives, who gives a gently caress about their methodology.

Edit:

Think about how bad he is now and imagine the same neighbor drinking. I surmise you're better off with him sober.

c0ldfuse posted:

Holy poo poo there's a lot of callousness in this thread.

People who have serious problems are trying to fix their lives, who gives a gently caress about their methodology.

im pooping! posted:

ill be honest when i first stopped drinking i did go to aa meetings, over 100 consecutive days i went to meetings, then i tapered off somewhat but it was fist and foremost in my mind, "I AM AN ALCOHOLIC" and what do you know, it became part of my identity and a few years of white knuckling later i started drinking again.

now im 9 months sober with no aa meetings and what do you know, i dont think about it that much because im certain it drove me to drink last time

Who What Now posted:

But AA doesn't say that some people are like that and some aren't, they say that literally all alcoholics are like that, no exceptions and that they will always be that way. That's not only wrong, it's actively harmful.

Kleen_TheRowdyDog posted:

That's simply not true. You sure have a lot of misconceptions about AA!

Thug Lessons posted:

It's cool but also AA has a lot of stupid crap. Not even religion but weird untested beliefs about alcoholism. Peace.

Thug Lessons posted:

There's a ton but people will tell you stuff like "alcoholics don't have any friends, they just have drinking buddies".

Thug Lessons posted:

Also it's impossible to stay sober if you don't keep going AA, people who claim otherwise are just "dry drunks" who will inevitably relapse.

Thug Lessons posted:

And you really shouldn't be around alcohol period because it's too tempting for any alcoholic to resist.

Spider Helidon posted:

This is my first day of trying to do something about the alcohol addiction that caused me to lose my job a few days ago, and I'm really sketchy about AA. I'm going to see a GP tomorrow so I can hopefully get a referral to some kind of counselling, so I guess I'll see how that works out. Working in bars for eight years is a great way to have your drinking problem spiral out of control.

Who What Now posted:

Yes, I know that you have the one magical AA that never does anything wrong, but maybe not all AAs are like yours. In fact, it's likely that most of them aren't.

Kleen_TheRowdyDog posted:

Thug Lessons posted:

The first two don't refute a drat thing, but the last is pretty convincing (though I still heard that). Of course if you're going by the Big Book you should also concede that AA is a fundamentally religious organization.

Kleen_TheRowdyDog posted:

The first talks about how its fine to hang with your old FRIENDS who still drink, negating your claim that AA says alcoholics don't have non-sober friends, they simply had drinking buddies.

The second is basically support for the assertion that at a certain point in your recovery you no longer have to fear drinking. Common knowledge in the program is that once you get to that point, the only reason you go to meetings is to try to help the newcomer - but you don't need to go to meetings to stay sober.

Kleen_TheRowdyDog posted:

"We, of ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, know thousands of men and women who were once just as hopeless as Bill. Nearly all have recovered. They have solved the drink problem." (p. 17)

Kleen_TheRowdyDog posted:

No, there is a lot of bullshit in AA, but you simply haven't properly identified any of it. Rather, you're talking out of your rear end with this kind of smug confidence that is completely unfounded.

Sasquatch! posted:

Have you ever found yourself sandwiched in between Meatloaf's big bitch tits?

"jesus-is-savior.com posted:

Demon Possession and Alcohol

Beer is 100% LIQUID DEVIL! In Revelation 21:8, the word "sorcerers" is translated from the Greek "pharmakeus," which means "a drug, i.e. a spell-giving potion; a druggist (pharmacist) or poisoner." Interestingly, the modern word "pharmacy" comes from the SAME Greek root word as does the word "sorcerer." Thus, there has always been a direct connection between demonic possession and substance abuse. People throughout history who have entered the occult have abused alcohol and drugs to increase their levels of occultic consciousness. The taking of alcohol or drugs is absolutely essential to the practice of witchcraft and Satanism. Drinking alcohol opens demonic doors because a weak mind is the Devil's workshop. To come under the influence of alcohol is to LOSE one's capacity for reason and control. Many rock-n-roll performers have openly admitted to writing some of their music while high on illegal-drugs. Listen to what Brian Wilson, lead singer of the Beach Boys stated...

"We were doing witchcraft, trying to make witchcraft music." -- Brian Wilson quoted in Nick Kent's The Dark Stuff (pg.27.)

praxis posted:

AA is a social club where alcoholics can go and hang out with people who will tell them it's not their fault.

Kleen_TheRowdyDog posted:

Wrong:

"Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles...our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so." (p.62)

AA is all about taking personal responsibility for one's actions.

Kleen_TheRowdyDog posted:

Wrong:

"Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles...our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so." (p.62)

AA is all about taking personal responsibility for one's actions.

n0n0 posted:

In the early days of AA, there was a lot of controversy between members who were Christian, and members who were not Christian. That's why the Big Book, and the steps, sometimes references God and sometimes references a Higher Power and sometimes references generic spiritual principles. It's the same way today.

There are some members who are Christian and who use the 12-step model to slowly and methodically help people to discover the "one true God," and then there are people like me who, whenever we get the chance, let everybody know that it isn't necessary to become a Christian in order to have a spiritual experience. In fact, it might actually be counter-indicated, since the Big Book itself, and the founding members of AA, had all tried religion and found that it wasn't sufficient to help them get sober. Instead, what they found to be helpful was trying to help other drunks. That's the really important part.

I've known recovering alcoholics who are atheist, Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, all sorts of "pagan," generically spiritual, new age... whatever. AA is not a religious organization. Some members of AA think it is, but they're flat wrong, and I let them know it at every chance I get.

praxis posted:

Yeah, sure. What AA says it's about and what its members do aren't always the same thing. There's a reason the term "13th Step" exists.

KierkegaardsHo posted:

I dunno if quoting the big book is going to have much effect here. It seems like if people hate AA, maybe we could just work more on acting better. Attraction rather than promotion and all that.

Kleen_TheRowdyDog posted:

Perhaps you should hang out with less sleazy/white trash members.

My entire circle of AA friends consists of doctors, lawyers, college professors, and other professionals with long-term sobriety who are in committed, loving, monogamous relationships.