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Pththya-lyi posted:The solution to misogyny and homophobia in other cultures isn't to impose our culture on them. Cultural imperialism tends to create problems of its own - the baby (i.e. the neutral-to-good aspects of a culture) tends to get thrown out with the bathwater (i.e. the bad aspects of a culture). Other cultures have to change from within, the way our culture has changed (and is still changing). The best we can do is keep our own house in order (by fighting our culture's examples of misogyny and homophobia) and being allies to people who fight misogyny and homophobia in their cultures. Ya i dunno about the op, im tired of thinking about islam, but i don't like this post. Misogyny and homophobia are specific ideas in themselves, not objective qualifications of a society. Misogyny implies an ignorant disrespect of women that comes out of like mommy issues or sexual frustration, but in many cultures women do have a place in it that does not assume they want careers and a babysitter and financial freedom and all the rest of this western wage slave mentality nonsense. Some cultures are fine without these ideas, they would call us misogynistic, for example western women not covering themselves. It's just a useless, specific, emotional word past a certain point. Yes, treat women well, but the criteria should not be if you are a misogynist or not, then you've already lost. "Have you stopped beating your wife?" And homosexuality seems to me by definition to be outside of society, gay people are not interested in helping to prolong it. They can't have children. Yes they can adopt, but anyone can technically adopt (not legally but that's not the point). The measure of a society is not by any means the measure of which they accept homosexuality, it is irrelevant to its health. And dictating what people do and don't do excessively is not the same thing as whether or not homosexuality itself is accepted. Society depends on heterosexual people looking towards the future, not a past/present oriented pleasure movement.
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Sep 28, 2014 12:37
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America I wish you would just take over the world already
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Sep 28, 2014 12:45
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Zzulu posted:America I wish you would just take over the world already workin on it
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Sep 28, 2014 12:46
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Zzulu posted:America I wish you would just take over the world already if it wasn't for the liberals we would have already
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Sep 28, 2014 13:05
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Tautologicus posted:And homosexuality seems to me by definition to be outside of society, gay people are not interested in helping to prolong it. The gently caress? So gay people don't make contributions to art, science, politics, or warfare? (Those links are just a few examples of famous gay men, BTW.) Not even raising children counts as "prolonging society?" The only possible contribution to society is physically making babies? 
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Sep 28, 2014 13:08
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Liberals and liberalism generally refer to two different things btw..liberalism is the political philosophy that underpins the liberal/conservative dichotomy. But liberalism is basically the multiculturalism and tolerance that is turning the western world to poo poo slowly, as all the cultures that don't care about those things move to the west and take advantage of our tolerance. And also i am gay
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Sep 28, 2014 13:09
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Tautologicus posted:And also i am gay That just makes your claim about gay people not "prolonging society" even more confusing to me
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Sep 28, 2014 13:11
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Immigrants take advantage of our tolerance in the same way a wage laborer takes advantage of a factory owner's assembly lines
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Sep 28, 2014 13:12
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Pththya-lyi posted:The gently caress? So gay people don't make contributions to art, science, politics, or warfare? (Those links are just a few examples of famous gay men, BTW.) Not even raising children counts as "prolonging society?" The only possible contribution to society is physically making babies? Those contributions had nothing to do with them being gay, unless you want to be one of the first to say they did. Yes, homosexuality as a thing in itself contributes nothing towards society, except maybe a reminder to tolerate more open pursuits of pleasure. This doesn't mean it's wrong, but it is irrelevant to the continuation of society and does not need to be accepted on a societal basis. It should only be accepted on the basis that no one is harmed by being gay, not that society is better for accepting it itself.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:14
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Pththya-lyi posted:That just makes your claim about gay people not "prolonging society" even more confusing to me But im also not gay
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Sep 28, 2014 13:15
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Tautologicus posted:Liberals and liberalism generally refer to two different things btw..liberalism is the political philosophy that underpins the liberal/conservative dichotomy. 
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Sep 28, 2014 13:15
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butplug accident posted:Immigrants take advantage of our tolerance in the same way a wage laborer takes advantage of a factory owner's assembly lines Immigrants who are willing to assimilate, yes. Immigrants who want to continue to be as backwards and anti-civilization wherever they go (example - pakistanis in britain that continue to do honor killings), no.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:17
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And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
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Sep 28, 2014 13:22
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End Of Worlds posted:And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? It's funny that that can be interpreted as saying that he who criticizes someone is automatically more of a hypocrite than he who never does. If he never says anything, do the beams suddenly become equal?
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Sep 28, 2014 13:26
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Tautologicus, when the Xxxao'thians conquer our planet, will you be okay with them imposing veganism and the Xxxao'thian language on us and assigning everybody jobs based on their skills and mating us eugenically and putting all the children in crèches? 'Cause if you won't be, then you'll be standing in the way of progress Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 13:27
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Tautologicus posted:Immigrants who are willing to assimilate, yes. Immigrants who want to continue to be as backwards and anti-civilization wherever they go (example - pakistanis in britain that continue to do honor killings), no. What our troops are doing over there daily is more anti-civilization than a few random sluts getting murked.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:27
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Pththya-lyi posted:Tautologicus, when the Xxxao'thians conquer our planet, will you be okay with them imposing veganism and the Xxxao'thian language on us and assigning everybody jobs based on their skills and mating us eugenically and putting all the children in crèches? If their firepower is superior then they probably deserved their victory.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:28
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that's how they get you. one day you're practicing your watered down and socially acceptable pacific northwest riff on islam and then BAM you're installing a caliphate
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Sep 28, 2014 13:28
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butplug accident posted:What our troops are doing over there daily is more anti-civilization than a few random sluts getting murked. If they had planes and tanks and missiles they would do the same thing. And besides, war is the best expression of civilization. We just happen to be winning. The only real mark of civilization is a unified banner, as opposed to tribalist infighting.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:33
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Jim Rustler posted:President Obama keeps insisting that Isis is not Islamic. Well, maybe they don't practice the Muslim faith the same way he did. If vast numbers of Muslims across the world believe, and they do, that humans deserve to die for merely holding a different idea, or drawing a cartoon, or writing a book, or eloping with the wrong person, not only does the Muslim world have something in common with Isis, it has too much in common with Isis. tell me more about twinkle hands and OWS
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Sep 28, 2014 13:33
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Tautologicus posted:If their firepower is superior then they probably deserved their victory. Wow, so might makes right? Not compassion or justice? By that logic, those British-Pakistani dads should be allowed to kill their dishonorable daughters, since a grown man is generally stronger than a teenage girl!
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Sep 28, 2014 13:33
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Tautologicus posted:If they had planes and tanks and missiles they would do the same thing. And besides, war is the best expression of civilization. We just happen to be winning. The only real mark of civilization is a unified banner, as opposed to tribalist infighting. Those tribes are just the leftover components from a civilization we helped destroy. Besides, our over-extension in the mideast is causing our own to decay.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:39
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Pththya-lyi posted:Wow, so might makes right? Not compassion or justice? By that logic, those British-Pakistani dads should be allowed to kill their dishonorable daughters, since a grown man is generally stronger than a teenage girl! No, i just don't answer hypotheticals. I was never arguing for progress anyway, just continuation. I am not even talking about the stronger taking over the weak, i was more saying that what some people think is progress is not progress at all, and is more akin to a snake eating its own tail.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:40
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butplug accident posted:Those tribes are just the leftover components from a civilization we helped destroy. Besides, our over-extension in the mideast is causing our own to decay. I agree with the first part but I think our decaying is due to not having much of anything to fight for or against. The real battles against nature and then against the equal and opposing enemy (the USSR) have been won, and the old unifying banner of christianity is decaying. Capitalism was never a unifying banner, just a means of appropriation and economic conquest. So what can we unify ourselves under now? If we don't find that, we continue to decay. Middle east adventurism was really an attempt to stave this off, thank god we found an enemy for 10 years. There's probably more to it but i will stick with this story for now.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:46
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Tautologicus' utopian vision (artist's rendering)
Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 13:48
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Tautologicus posted:And homosexuality seems to me by definition to be outside of society, gay people are not interested in helping to prolong it. They can't have children. Yes they can adopt, but anyone can technically adopt (not legally but that's not the point). The measure of a society is not by any means the measure of which they accept homosexuality, it is irrelevant to its health. And dictating what people do and don't do excessively is not the same thing as whether or not homosexuality itself is accepted. Society depends on heterosexual people looking towards the future, not a past/present oriented pleasure movement. Lmao "society depends on heterosexual people looking towards the future" you sound like you have some serious aspergers dude. I don't know if you realize, but people don't usually plan to have babies. Life is just kind of happens for people. Also, homosexuality is going to be around pretty much forever since it's been proven that it isn't genetic and occurs in a consistent percentage of all animals across earth. Ignoring it or pushing it aside is only going to cause problems. You're a shamefully stupid, and ignorant gay person.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:51
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There is no utopia, people would much rather clan up and take the other people's poo poo than share what they have. Any utopian community that has ever succeeded only did so because there wasn't enough poo poo to fight over, but then no one was happy in the first place. Very few last over even 10 years. People require poo poo to fight over. That's civilization in a nutshell. I would prefer to find a way out of this cynicism but i can only go by what i see around me.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:52
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Hmmm i wonder if this is another thread where everyone argues with one person who is constantly making grandiose claims about the nature of society and they just get constantly poo poo on and roll with the punches.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:55
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Tautologicus posted:There is no utopia, people would much rather clan up and take the other people's poo poo than share what they have. Any utopian community that has ever succeeded only did so because there wasn't enough poo poo to fight over, but then no one was happy in the first place. Very few last over even 10 years. People require poo poo to fight over. That's civilization in a nutshell. I would prefer to find a way out of this cynicism but i can only go by what i see around me. So civilization isn't advanced cities, specialized workers, complex institutions, record-keeping, or improved technology - it's really about giving into our baser instincts. What you define as "civilization," I define as "barbarism."
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Sep 28, 2014 13:56
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Tsinava posted:Lmao "society depends on heterosexual people looking towards the future" you sound like you have some serious aspergers dude. But they have the ability to have babies (and that's enough), and the very essence of a heterosexual relationship is the hope for the future. Supporting each other towards some future state, whether thats kids or a quiet life or anything. And i never said to ignore or push aside homosexuality. No it's not going away, but society has nothing to do with it. It's an aberration, and it can be tolerated even so. The drive to accept it with open arms is a symptom of the decay of society because it has nothing to fight for anymore. This is a natural process even, its not worth getting upset over.
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Sep 28, 2014 13:57
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Tautologicus posted:But they have the ability to have babies (and that's enough), and the very essence of a heterosexual relationship is the hope for the future. Supporting each other towards some future state, whether thats kids or a quiet life or anything. And i never said to ignore or push aside homosexuality. No it's not going away, but society has nothing to do with it. It's an aberration, and it can be tolerated even so. The drive to accept it with open arms is a symptom of the decay of society because it has nothing to fight for anymore. This is a natural process even, its not worth getting upset over. Homosexual people have biological children all the loving time. lmao just what
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Sep 28, 2014 14:00
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wow this thread got serious discussion posting quickly
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Sep 28, 2014 14:00
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*runs down the street as the thread watches quietly, it takes a long time and I'm huffing and puffing, red-faced and sweaty, by the time I get to where everyone has gathered* H-H-HA-HAS ANYONE, ANYONE SAID...*GASP*... THAT THE TRUTH IS, IS SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE?!?
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Sep 28, 2014 14:01
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its hard not to correct someone who is claiming to be gay who is also saying gays can't have babies. im probably being trolled.
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Sep 28, 2014 14:01
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Pththya-lyi posted:So civilization isn't advanced cities, specialized workers, complex institutions, record-keeping, or improved technology - it's really about giving into our baser instincts. What you define as "civilization," I define as "barbarism." I don't see much difference between the two anymore, but I am not happy with that conclusion. I would like to agree with you.
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Sep 28, 2014 14:04
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Tsinava posted:its hard not to correct someone who is claiming to be gay who is also saying gays can't have babies.
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Sep 28, 2014 14:07
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Tautologicus posted:I agree with the first part but I think our decaying is due to not having much of anything to fight for or against. The real battles against nature and then against the equal and opposing enemy (the USSR) have been won, and the old unifying banner of christianity is decaying. Capitalism was never a unifying banner, just a means of appropriation and economic conquest. So what can we unify ourselves under now? If we don't find that, we continue to decay. Middle east adventurism was really an attempt to stave this off, thank god we found an enemy for 10 years. There's probably more to it but i will stick with this story for now. I think people derive meaning mainly from each others company (good or bad) and not from abstract conflicts with nature or foreign states. A society decays when it's unable to meet ordinary people's social needs, and external causes like patriotism or religion are just distractions from the lowering quality of social relationships and destruction of local communities because of various economic factors.
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Sep 28, 2014 14:08
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Tautologicus posted:I just say poo poo and see what happens. Are you perhaps a puppet-master?
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Sep 28, 2014 14:08
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hamasexuals
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Sep 28, 2014 14:11
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butplug accident posted:I think people derive meaning mainly from each others company (good or bad) and not from abstract conflicts with nature or foreign states. A society decays when it's unable to meet ordinary people's social needs, and external causes like patriotism or religion are just distractions from the lowering quality of social relationships and destruction of local communities because of various economic factors. Yes but what creates those social relationships. Shared understandings. Societal, religious, philosophical, political, national. Meaning is created by these social forces...almost a cliche at this point. Peoples identities are formed by these things, they do not exist in a vacuum.
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Sep 28, 2014 14:11
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