|
Only 12 white sources is going to make Elspeth hard to cast. You also only have 11 untapped black sources for a turn 1 Thoughtseize/Despise, if that matters to you. You can fix some of that pretty easily - for example, instead of running Battlefield Forge and Temple of Malice, you can run Caves of Koilos and Temple of Triumph, which gives you the same number of sources of each colour, but more options for black on turn 1. With the cards you're playing, you can also afford to cut a couple of red sources to beef up your white/untapped black. E: Quote for new page: Fingers McLongDong posted:Here's my version of Mardu control that i'll hopefully have complete by this weekend. Started making mardu walkers, ended up with this instead.
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 13:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 21:37 |
|
|
Jabor posted:Only 12 white sources is going to make Elspeth hard to cast. You also only have 11 untapped black sources for a turn 1 Thoughtseize/Despise, if that matters to you. You can fix some of that pretty easily - for example, instead of running Battlefield Forge and Temple of Malice, you can run Caves of Koilos and Temple of Triumph, which gives you the same number of sources of each colour, but more options for black on turn 1. As slow as the format is right now, a t2 thoughtseize is just as good as a t1 so I'm not worried about that really. I may have to adjust for some more white sources like you said though. Originally I had more red spells but cut some so I'll adjust.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 14:01
|
|
|
Fingers McLongDong posted:Here's my version of Mardu control that i'll hopefully have complete by this weekend. Started making mardu walkers, ended up with this instead. How's Liliana working for you? I haven't tried her in my version but I've been wanting to. She mostly just seems like she ensures you'll draw either Elspeth or End Hostilities during your next turn, and then hopefully forces a card answering her or you get to do it again. She just seems sort of slow but maybe that's fine in this deck.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 14:48
|
|
|
Soothing Cacophony posted:How's Liliana working for you? I haven't tried her in my version but I've been wanting to. She mostly just seems like she ensures you'll draw either Elspeth or End Hostilities during your next turn, and then hopefully forces a card answering her or you get to do it again. She just seems sort of slow but maybe that's fine in this deck. I haven't gotten to test it yet actually, but that's exactly what I'm hoping she'll do there. She seems decent enough against other control decks and even if she only lives one turn she will get a board wipe next turn and mitigate some damage.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 15:01
|
|
|
Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:Any thoughts of splashing for white in the 16 land sligh deck off 4 confluence and 4 battlefield forge? I think Ride Down might be superior in the Searing Blood spot after this weekends results and it gives you more options post board, but that's a lot of damage from lands. That's actually how the deck started, and my buddy I brewed with is still running a version with white that's very good. The damage from lands is not prohibitive, but I'd run Chained to the Rocks instead of ride down in the maindeck, and bring a couple ride down out of the sideboard. You have access to erase, too, which is definitely a nice option.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 15:18
|
|
|
Jabor posted:I'm surprised at not having 1-of basic swamp, since that's the colour you're missing if you're able to activate Embodiment of Spring. Yup, that is two swamps and two islands in the upper right corner. I want to say that four Read the Bones isn't enough draw, but the deck doesn't have enough card usage to use things like Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time. At least not without more of my own creatures dying. Fingers McLongDong posted:Here's my version of Mardu control that i'll hopefully have complete by this weekend. Started making mardu walkers, ended up with this instead. I see a lot of ways to lose life and no way to gain it back.  Lack of creature generation outside of Elspeth kills the idea of adding Sorin or using Butcher of the Horde.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 15:31
|
|
|
Can I get an updated list for Rabble Red post Khans release AND the Red Aggro that everyone is running? Trying to decide between the two.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 16:02
|
|
|
Deckit posted:Yup, that is two swamps and two islands in the upper right corner. Honestly, I would like a singleton Ajani Steadfast. It lets you make Sarkhan a 5/5 with first strike and lifelink (and vigilance that doesn't matter).
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 16:05
|
|
|
AlternateNu posted:Honestly, I would like a singleton Ajani Steadfast. It lets you make Sarkhan a 5/5 with first strike and lifelink (and vigilance that doesn't matter). I thought a lot about this and I'm a big advocate of steadfast. I'm not sure if he's right in this deck but I might try. The list I posted is a few cards away from just being a mardu walkers list and I would definitely include a steadfast if I had more walkers. CVM did a versus series with a walkers list that looked fun but he died to his manabase a lot and looked like it needed some tweaking.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 16:32
|
|
|
I'm reading Frank's article on manabases. Can I count my Caryatids and Rattleclaw Mystics in my number of blue sources for, say, turn 5 and later?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:12
|
|
|
AlsoD posted:I'm reading Frank's article on manabases. Can I count my Caryatids and Rattleclaw Mystics in my number of blue sources for, say, turn 5 and later? Down in the article, it says quote:A good rule of thumb is to count fragile mana producers (e.g., Birds of Paradise or Deathrite Shaman) as half a colored mana source I'd say Rattleclaw could be half and Caryatid would be a full one. Depending on how prevalent Anger of the Gods is.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:20
|
|
|
Deckit posted:I see a lot of ways to lose life and no way to gain it back. If there was one lesson to be learned from the standard opens this weekend it was that the field is eminently equipped to chuck you in the dumpster if you start dealing yourself a bunch of damage. Unless you're a deck that wants to win by Turn 5 at the latest I really can't see running Mana Confluence being justifiable. atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Sep 29, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 17:26
|
|
|
OssiansFolly posted:Can I get an updated list for Rabble Red post Khans release AND the Red Aggro that everyone is running? Trying to decide between the two. Here's Rabble Red and 16-Land Sligh. Rabble Red is more or less unchanged from the last time I linked it aside from some sideboard shuffling.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:03
|
|
|
UberJew posted:If there was one lesson to be learned from the standard opens this weekend it was that the field is eminently equipped to chuck you in the dumpster if you start dealing yourself a bunch of damage. Unless you're running Siege Rhino, Sorin and Wingmate Roc. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:12
|
|
|
bhsman posted:Here's Rabble Red and 16-Land Sligh. Rabble Red is more or less unchanged from the last time I linked it aside from some sideboard shuffling. What's the point of having fetches in a mono red deck?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:17
|
|
|
bhsman posted:Here's Rabble Red and 16-Land Sligh. Rabble Red is more or less unchanged from the last time I linked it aside from some sideboard shuffling. In a mono color deck I don't quite understand the need for fetchlands...can someone explain the reasoning behind it?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:17
|
|
|
Thinning. The percentage boost to drawing gas vs. extra land probably doesn't matter as much as the lost life, but if ever a deck didn't care about its life total, it's that one. Also, if you want to be a baller, those fetchlands are the only way to show off your wallet size.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:21
|
|
|
/\/\/\: You did it! You are the first person due to be mocked. The only reasons I can think of involve bad maths and the OP yelling at/making fun of you. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:22
|
|
|
OssiansFolly posted:In a mono color deck I don't quite understand the need for fetchlands...can someone explain the reasoning behind it? Lieutenant Centaur posted:What's the point of having fetches in a mono red deck?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:23
|
|
|
Maybe I enjoy paying life for the thrill.  EDIT: I thought the math said thinning has some effect when the land count is that low? Whatever, just replace them with Mountains if it bothers you or you can't afford the Fetches.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:24
|
|
|
OssiansFolly posted:In a mono color deck I don't quite understand the need for fetchlands...can someone explain the reasoning behind it? I can see fetches in any mono color deck with delve cards simply for extra fuel (e.g. mono black with murderous cut).
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:25
|
|
|
bhsman posted:Maybe I enjoy paying life for the thrill. This is legitimately a more valid reason than deck thinning.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:26
|
|
|
Fetching on T1 increases you chance of drawing a spell next turn by 1.42%. That's your "deck thinning" right there. Let's assume that you end up drawing 4 cards after that fetch in an average game. That increases your chance of drawing a live card by 5.66%. That means running fetches in Sub Sligh is costing you 17 life per extra spell drawn - and that's not counting all the games where you have only 1 land and hope to draw a second, so the fetches are actually counterproductive. With a 1-land hand, cracking a fetch reduces your chance of drawing a land next turn by 1.37% so there's a subset of games where the fetches are worse than a Mountain even without accounting for life loss. Don't play fetches in Sub Sligh, read the thread title. Imagine if there were a land that tapped for R and read "When this enters the battlefield, you lose 1 life. Flip four coins. If you win all four flips, draw a card." Would you play that land? Would you play 8 of it? Chamale fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Sep 29, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
Shovelmint posted:Thinning. The percentage boost to drawing gas vs. extra land probably doesn't matter as much as the lost life, but if ever a deck didn't care about its life total, it's that one. Look at this guy, not reading the thread title. Being baller with your fetches is acceptable.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:39
|
|
|
Fetches fuel grim lavamancer in legacy/modern, but he's not in standard soooo...
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:46
|
|
|
AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Fetching on T1 increases you chance of drawing a spell next turn by 1.42%. That's your "deck thinning" right there. Let's assume that you end up drawing 4 cards after that fetch in an average game. That increases your chance of drawing a live card by 5.66%. That means running fetches in Sub Sligh is costing you 17 life per extra spell drawn - and that's not counting all the games where you have only 1 land and hope to draw a second, so the fetches are actually counterproductive. With a 1-land hand, cracking a fetch reduces your chance of drawing a land next turn by 1.37% so there's a subset of games where the fetches are worse than a Mountain even without accounting for life loss. This was good. quote:Don't play fetches in Sub Sligh, read the thread title. Being snooty when I was curious/trying to clarify is not. That said, I'll defer to your explanation and remove the fetches.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 18:53
|
|
|
AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Fetching on T1 increases you chance of drawing a spell next turn by 1.42%. That's your "deck thinning" right there. Let's assume that you end up drawing 4 cards after that fetch in an average game. That increases your chance of drawing a live card by 5.66%. That means running fetches in Sub Sligh is costing you 17 life per extra spell drawn - and that's not counting all the games where you have only 1 land and hope to draw a second, so the fetches are actually counterproductive. With a 1-land hand, cracking a fetch reduces your chance of drawing a land next turn by 1.37% so there's a subset of games where the fetches are worse than a Mountain even without accounting for life loss. Thank you. This is what I was looking for. I was fishing and drawing hands trying to figure out how the math made sense for this...
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 19:11
|
|
|
Angry Grimace posted:Unless you're running Siege Rhino, Sorin and Wingmate Roc. The Siege Rhino/Sorin/Wingmate Roc decks that made it were the ones that minimized their painlands: an average of 3 total Mana Confluence/Caves of Koilos/Llanowar Wastes in the main. They can't be totally avoided, but you really need to be able to gain life in a midrange deck period (lots of Nylea's Disciples for the Gx decks, as well) and you need to minimize how much you hurt yourself as well.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 19:15
|
|
|
Play fetches in your mono-blue Standard decks so you can speed out Treasure Cruise and draw into the many mono-blue win conditions such as
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 20:49
|
|
|
Dungeon Ecology posted:I didn't see anyone post it, but it looks like an insanely fun deck: I've been working on something similar, more of a spin on G/U/b Ramp, though. I'd revise like this: 4x Opulent Palace 4x Yavimaya Coast 2x Forest 2x Llanowar Wastes 4x Polluted Delta 2x Island 1x Swamp 3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx Creatures: 4x Embodiment of Spring 3x Sylvan Caryatid 4x Courser of Kruphix 2x Boon Satyr 4x Kiora's Follower 3x Voyaging Satyr 3x Clever Impersonator 1x Hornet's Nest 1x Hornet Queen 1x Ob Nixilis, Unchackled Non-creature Spells: 3x Kiora, the Crashing Wave 2x Garruk, Apex Predator 4x In Garruk's Wake 3x Chord of Calling That's probably 61, but I played a similar G/x ramp deck in the more recent standard to pretty great effect.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 21:09
|
|
|
bhsman posted:Being snooty when I was curious/trying to clarify is not. That said, I'll defer to your explanation and remove the fetches. Sorry, that line was mean and I didn't intend it to be. As penance, feel free to ridicule me for failing to count to 24 - the decklist I posted only has 22 lands in it. I think I'll add one Swamp and one Plains, which helps the issues with casting Hero's Downfall and Brimaz.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 22:37
|
|
|
Emerson Cod posted:I've been working on something similar, more of a spin on G/U/b Ramp, though. I'd revise like this: I'm not sure I like Saito's list all that much. The K-Dictate helps your opponent just as much as you, the fetches are subpar fixing, and it's kinda durdly. In your list, I'd probably ditch the one of Ob to get to 60. How has Embodiment of Spring been?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2014 22:47
|
|
|
This is what I've been kind of looking at for a Mardu build. //Lands (22) 4 Battlefield Forge 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Caves of Koilos 3 Mountain 4 Nomad Outpost 2 Swamp 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth //Spells (22) 3 Crackling Doom 3 Despise 3 Hero's Downfall 4 Lightning Strike 3 Mardu Charm 2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor 3 Thoughtseize 1 Utter End //Creatures (16) 4 Bloodsoaked Champion 4 Butcher of the Horde 4 Goblin Rabblemaster 4 War-Name Aspirant I'll be honest, the last time I tried to build a Standard deck on my own, it was during Masques Block, and I was playing more Extended than Standard. I keep thinking I need to curve into everything, and I'm a bit concerned I won't be able to drop something every turn with any consistency. I'm not sure if running War-Name Aspirant is worth it, and my other choice was Seeker of the Way, but I was going into this deck with the idea that I probably won't need a white mana source until turn three or four, so there's more a focus on black and red. I also don't know if that much discard and removal is even relevant in this day and age of Magicking. Also there are a lot of three-ofs and it's kinda weirding me out.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 00:12
|
|
|
AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Fetching on T1 increases you chance of drawing a spell next turn by 1.42%. That's your "deck thinning" right there. Let's assume that you end up drawing 4 cards after that fetch in an average game. That increases your chance of drawing a live card by 5.66%. That means running fetches in Sub Sligh is costing you 17 life per extra spell drawn - and that's not counting all the games where you have only 1 land and hope to draw a second, so the fetches are actually counterproductive. With a 1-land hand, cracking a fetch reduces your chance of drawing a land next turn by 1.37% so there's a subset of games where the fetches are worse than a Mountain even without accounting for life loss. That second part is very worth noting: The "deck-thinning" argument focuses on the games where you have all the lands you need, but in the games where you need that one more land, having cracked a fetch actually hurts you... albeit only by the same quite low percentage that it helps you in the other case. Fetches are good if: a) you need mana fixing b) you're feeding Delve cards or Grim Lavamancer or something like that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 03:05
|
|
|
Entropic posted:That second part is very worth noting: The "deck-thinning" argument focuses on the games where you have all the lands you need, but in the games where you need that one more land, having cracked a fetch actually hurts you... albeit only by the same quite low percentage that it helps you in the other case. Or you're playing Courser of Kruphix, it's nice to shuffle away crap draws. Double Land-ETB trigger is just icing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 03:16
|
|
|
BaronVonVaderham posted:Or you're playing Courser of Kruphix, it's nice to shuffle away crap draws. Double Land-ETB trigger is just icing. I just wonder how often the situation of "I don't want what I see on top so I'll crack my fetch to shuffle it away" comes up compared to "I want to keep that on top but god dammit I need to crack my fetch for the extra mana to cast this spell right now". Both are gonna happen. Is it a sure thing that the former is more common than the latter?
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 03:19
|
|
|
Entropic posted:I just wonder how often the situation of "I don't want what I see on top so I'll crack my fetch to shuffle it away" comes up compared to "I want to keep that on top but god dammit I need to crack my fetch for the extra mana to cast this spell right now". Both are gonna happen. Is it a sure thing that the former is more common than the latter? It's a nice thing to have after a Brainstorm where you don't care for the two cards you put on top. I mean don't play fetches if that's the only reason you're gonna use them, but it's a good bonus to work into if you can.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 03:21
|
|
|
Entropic posted:I just wonder how often the situation of "I don't want what I see on top so I'll crack my fetch to shuffle it away" comes up compared to "I want to keep that on top but god dammit I need to crack my fetch for the extra mana to cast this spell right now". Both are gonna happen. Is it a sure thing that the former is more common than the latter? If you need to crack the fetch anyway then it's a total wash - the odds of the top card after the shuffle being the one you want are unaffected by whatever the top card is before the shuffle. It's a definite win in cases where you can choose whether to fetch or not.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 03:33
|
|
|
In Standard right now they'll be about equally common occurrences. In Legacy it usually ends up just shuffling away Brainstorm/Ponder chaff. I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad that we only have to live with Courser + Fetches for 1 year and then have just Fetches for another 6 Months. I guess 1 year with them is better than 2 years with Fetches and Oracle of Mul Daya. Or was she not played as much as Courser is now?
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 03:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 21:37 |
|
|
AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Sorry, that line was mean and I didn't intend it to be. As penance, feel free to ridicule me for failing to count to 24 - the decklist I posted only has 22 lands in it. I think I'll add one Swamp and one Plains, which helps the issues with casting Hero's Downfall and Brimaz. No worries either way, and assuming you're referring to your King list I say go for it unless you feel like adding more dual-colored lands might help out better - the deck doesn't feel too tempo-y so you can get away with it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 03:50
|
|