US Politics October: This is how we roll in the Hussein Clown Posse

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Politics October: This is how we roll in the Hussein Clown Posse

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Pythagoras a trois: Feb 19, 2004; I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.

AlternateNu posted:

Really, if you had complete guarantees on the quality of the candidate, the best form of government would actually be a benevolent dictatorship.

And I've been saying I'm available for years.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 13:46

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 11:29

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Quote of the day: "Where is disease most transmittable? When you're in very close confines on a ship. We all know about cruises and how they get these diarrhea viruses that are transmitted very easily and the whole ship gets sick. Can you imagine if a whole ship full of our soldiers catch Ebola?" ~ Rand Paul on Obama's decision to send troops to West Africa.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 14:02

AlternateNu: May 5, 2005; ドーナツダメ！

Joementum posted:

Quote of the day: "Where is disease most transmittable? When you're in very close confines on a ship. We all know about cruises and how they get these diarrhea viruses that are transmitted very easily and the whole ship gets sick. Can you imagine if a whole ship full of our soldiers catch Ebola?" ~ Rand Paul on Obama's decision to send troops to West Africa.

Of everything wrong with this, what kills me the most is...soldiers don't ride ships, you ignorant dickbag! :argh:

(Shut up! Let me have my impotent rage!)

# ? Oct 2, 2014 14:06

radical meme: Apr 17, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Joementum posted:

Quote of the day: "Where is disease most transmittable? When you're in very close confines on a ship. We all know about cruises and how they get these diarrhea viruses that are transmitted very easily and the whole ship gets sick. Can you imagine if a whole ship full of our soldiers catch Ebola?" ~ Rand Paul on Obama's decision to send troops to West Africa.

They've now identified up to 80 people that came into contact with our patient zero here in Texas. The hate is gonna be unreal if it spreads even a little and the irony that being a country without universal health care may have helped it to spread.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 14:14

Islam is the Lite Rock FM: Jul 27, 2007; by exmarx

AlternateNu posted:

Of everything wrong with this, what kills me the most is...soldiers don't ride ships, you ignorant dickbag!

(Shut up! Let me have my impotent rage!)

Rand Paul still thinks it's 1890.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 14:15

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

AlternateNu posted:

Of everything wrong with this, what kills me the most is...soldiers don't ride ships, you ignorant dickbag!

(Shut up! Let me have my impotent rage!)

But the framers' intent :negative:

# ? Oct 2, 2014 14:21

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

radical meme posted:

They've now identified up to 80 people that came into contact with our patient zero here in Texas. The hate is gonna be unreal if it spreads even a little and the irony that being a country without universal health care may have helped it to spread.

I can't wait for the Sunday morning news pundits to tell me the "serious" solution is to close all the borders and refuse all immigrants.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 14:22

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

The Democratic candidate for Governor in South Carolina has said they should take down the Confederate flag on the State House grounds and replace it with the American flag.

So, congrats Nikki Haley on winning another term.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 14:34

resurgam40: Jul 22, 2007; Battler, the literal stupidest man on earth. Why are you even here, Battler, why did you come back to this place so you could fuck literally everything up?

Joementum posted:

The Democratic candidate for Governor in South Carolina has said they should take down the Confederate flag on the State House grounds and replace it with the American flag.

So, congrats Nikki Haley on winning another term.

... Yeah, the Confederate flag is an abysmal symbol of treason, but that seems like a... decidedly short-sighted thing to do for a politician of that particular area to do.

I do not know if I would support him; someone who can't take the long view or read the wishes of their population is not somebody we need in the government.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 14:55

Gunshow Poophole: Sep 14, 2008; OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069; Clapping Larry

Joementum posted:

The Democratic candidate for Governor in South Carolina has said they should take down the Confederate flag on the State House grounds and replace it with the American flag.

So, congrats Nikki Haley on winning another term.

This has been inevitable for a long time, Sheheen is a terrible candidate and a terrible politician. He didn't have a chance last go-round, he hasn't changed anything about his campaigning or his personality, he doesn't have a chance this time. It makes me really mad, it's such a waste.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 14:58

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Texas State Senator Charles Perry asks, "You know who else had a federal government? :godwin:

quote:

There were 10,000 people that were paraded into a medical office under the guise of a physical. As they stood with their back against the wall, they were executed with a bullet through the throat. Before they left, 10,000 people met their fate that way. Is it not the same than when our government continues to perpetuate laws that lead citizens away from God?

To answer your question, Chuck, nope, not the same.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 15:06

Unzip and Attack: Mar 3, 2008; USPOL May

Teddybear posted:

You lose institutional knowledge and legislators who have acquired expertise in their committee subjects and in policy. This makes legislators ineffective and more reliant on lobbyists and pressure groups for learning about issues and how to run their state. Term limits have been a failure in every state in which they were enacted, and there is no good reason to enact them unless you are actively trying to subvert the democratic process.

Holy hell is this a good summary of why term limits are dumb. The people that advocate for them are generally rubes or internet libertarian shrills. To add to Teddy's post, there have been quite a few quantitative studies that look at this issue and the consensus is that the more freshmen legislators a body elects, the fewer laws get passed for all of the above reasons. Outstanding post Teddybear.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 15:13

Tender Bender: Sep 17, 2004

Radish posted:

I can't wait for the Sunday morning news pundits to tell me the "serious" solution is to close all the borders and refuse all immigrants.

Bill O'Reilly was already saying this last night.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 15:17

SodomyGoat101: Nov 20, 2012

O'Reilly thinks giving every white man a six-pack of AR-15s is a great idea and will instill world peace, but one black dude with a gun is going too far. I'm not really surprised.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 15:30

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

Unzip and Attack posted:

Holy hell is this a good summary of why term limits are dumb. The people that advocate for them are generally rubes or internet libertarian shrills. To add to Teddy's post, there have been quite a few quantitative studies that look at this issue and the consensus is that the more freshmen legislators a body elects, the fewer laws get passed for all of the above reasons. Outstanding post Teddybear.

Ageism is probably the most widespread reasoning after "they're all crooks".

# ? Oct 2, 2014 15:35

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

So are the people who think Obama didn't try hard enough also mad at the Democrats for not trying hard enough to win the senate seat in Kansas?

# ? Oct 2, 2014 15:39

AmiYumi: Oct 10, 2005; I FORGOT TO HAIL KING TORG

What about age limits, rather than term limits? Bonus points if it's pegged to the average life expectancy of a black male in their district. :allears:

# ? Oct 2, 2014 15:47

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

AmiYumi posted:

What about age limits, rather than term limits? Bonus points if it's pegged to the average life expectancy of a black male in their district.

Nonsense posted:

Ageism is probably the most widespread reasoning after "they're all crooks".

# ? Oct 2, 2014 15:47

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

DemeaninDemon posted:

Rand Paul still thinks it's 1890.

He's not the only one, remember bayonets and battleships from 2012?

# ? Oct 2, 2014 15:54

Godlessdonut: Sep 13, 2005

duz posted:

He's not the only one, remember bayonets and battleships from 2012?

And the response of, "hurf durf the Marines still use bayonets!"

(to open MRE packets)

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:05

Amergin: Jan 29, 2013; THE SOUND A WET FART MAKES

Unzip and Attack posted:

Holy hell is this a good summary of why term limits are dumb. The people that advocate for them are generally rubes or internet libertarian shrills. To add to Teddy's post, there have been quite a few quantitative studies that look at this issue and the consensus is that the more freshmen legislators a body elects, the fewer laws get passed for all of the above reasons. Outstanding post Teddybear.

Actually most of the folks I see supporting term limits are OWS/Redditor-style liberals who get their news fix from a mixture of MSNBC, The Daily Show and HuffPo.

Same people who were anti-pork without realizing that pork barrel spending is the carrot to many politicians' carrot-and-stick political dealing in Washington. One of the many reasons we're in a political age of puritanical idealism and every-bill-is-a-game-of-chicken.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:06

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Amergin posted:

Actually most of the folks I see supporting term limits are OWS/Redditor-style liberals who get their news fix from a mixture of MSNBC, The Daily Show and HuffPo.

Same people who were anti-pork without realizing that pork barrel spending is the carrot to many politicians' carrot-and-stick political dealing in Washington. One of the many reasons we're in a political age of puritanical idealism and every-bill-is-a-game-of-chicken.

Agreein' with Amergin over here.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:08

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Amergin posted:

Actually most of the folks I see supporting term limits are OWS/Redditor-style liberals who get their news fix from a mixture of MSNBC, The Daily Show and HuffPo.

Same people who were anti-pork without realizing that pork barrel spending is the carrot to many politicians' carrot-and-stick political dealing in Washington. One of the many reasons we're in a political age of puritanical idealism and every-bill-is-a-game-of-chicken.

It's scary when you're right.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:10

Amused to Death: Aug 10, 2009; google "The Night Witches", and prepare for

Actually everyone from across the political spectrum in the US thinks term limits is a good idea with somewhat more Republicans than Democrats with little variation between age groups
http://www.gallup.com/poll/159881/americans-call-term-limits-end-electoral-college.aspx

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:12

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Well, regardless of political bent, most of the electorate thinks some dumb poo poo.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:12

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Self-term-limiting also became a thing with Tea Party candidates pledging that they would only run twice. Which is just fine with me.

It's especially popular with those who want to repeal the 17th Amendment, i.e. dumb people.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:17

AlternateNu: May 5, 2005; ドーナツダメ！

Amused to Death posted:

Actually everyone from across the political spectrum in the US thinks term limits is a good idea with somewhat more Republicans than Democrats with little variation between age groups
http://www.gallup.com/poll/159881/americans-call-term-limits-end-electoral-college.aspx

A majority of Americans know dick-poo poo about political balance. Surprise, surprise.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:20

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Xenocidebot posted:

Apologies for the but I'm curious how goons would address some poo poo I butt heads with regularly.

A lot of people unironically making the argument for legislative term limits (Libertarians/Tea Partiers/Objectivists/assholes actually reading the opinion pieces in Forbes) don't see this as a problem with those term limits in and of themselves. The entire motivation for a legislative term limit is to prevent careers in politics from being desirable, which term limits could do very well. In these schools of thought a career in politics is inherently crooked (because, you know, the government obviously feeds on created wealth while creating nothing) and keeping a person from stewing in one for too long is a worthy goal in and of itself.

Most of your complaints would be read as a demonstration of the Iron Law of Oligarchy in effect. If the inner workings of our democracy are so convoluted that regular citizens cannot possibly function as representatives without years of work experience, then regular citizens certainly cannot be expected to vote intelligently for representatives to fill these positions. If partisan and special interest concerns will rule over any congressperson until a golden age past which they have the requisite experience to play for real, then it is unrealistic to expect they will ever make a meaningful deviation later in life from what partisan and special interest concerns conditioned them to focus on in their formative period. The whole thing becomes an argument that legislative term limits are insufficient reform alone and additional action is needed to tackle the monster Congress has become.

I never figured out a way to argue against this. Obviously you can brush the whole load of horseshit off as standard wingnut thinking- bludgeon the government, if it didn't work it's because you didn't bludgeon it hard enough- but if you do actually try discussing it, most things end up backfiring. Citing, say, state legislatures losing power relative to governors and an increase in legislative-executive conflict just nets the response that state governors need their own type of kneecapping. Trying to argue politics is like any other skilled profession in terms of on-the-job learning tends to turn into "if they're professionals they'd run the government like professionals" and that's one step from government-as-business crap.

Maybe there's no good way of trying to talk to these people, but it's not a thing I want to give up on.

VVVVVV "Party bosses and lobbyists" don't make these people angry like "parasitic congresspeople" do, so that shift isn't always perceived negatively.

This, like most right wing things in America is an argument whose logical conclusion is that Republics/Democracies don't work given that the leadership of the right wing in this country would be leading an oligarchy it's not surprising they support it.

Radish posted:

Personally I'd want some sort of cap on the amount of years a SCOTUS judge can serve. The idea that they are there until they decide to quit or literally die in the chair is crazy and those nine have a huge amount of personal political power. It just feel's wrong that a guy put into power by a President over twenty years ago is still making rulings on things that are highly political or if you screw up and that guy turns out to be terrible and incompetant you just have to deal with it until he drops dead.

I think that something like you serve through four presidential terms would be fair.

Blame Hamilton and having to compromise on his stupid as hell President for life idea.

AlternateNu posted:

A majority of Americans know dick-poo poo about political balance. Surprise, surprise.

It's not like their schools are any good.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:22

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

chairface posted:

While in Croatia I quite enjoyed "Pivo" (the word for beer) brand-beer, so I'm sure it's fine. Probably a step up from Lord Calvert.

In Laos you can drink Laos, and pay for it in Laos!

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:23

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

FizFashizzle posted:

In Laos you can drink Laos, and pay for it in Laos!

Aaaah, Gurp-gork. *nods sagely*

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:28

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

WHY IS EVERYTHING NAMED AFTER THAT drat DOG!

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:35

GlyphGryph: Jun 23, 2013; Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Joementum posted:

Self-term-limiting also became a thing with Tea Party candidates pledging that they would only run twice. Which is just fine with me.

It's especially popular with those who want to repeal the 17th Amendment, i.e. dumb people.

Hey now, I support replacement of the 17th amendment (I'd prefer to see Senate elections handled by professional elector pool system in a manner similar to jury duty, where the people pegged are pulled at random from the voter pools and paid well for their service, but actually expected to research the candidates before voting), and I don't think I'm that stupid.

But then, maybe I am. It's possible. (It doesn't matter, it will never happen)

I still don't think legislative term limits are a good idea.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:39

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

GlyphGryph posted:

Hey now, I support replacement of the 17th amendment (I'd prefer to see Senate elections handled by professional elector pool system in a manner similar to jury duty, where the people pegged are pulled at random from the voter pools and paid well for their service, but actually expected to research the candidates before voting), and I don't think I'm that stupid.

But then, maybe I am. It's possible. (It doesn't matter, it will never happen)

I still don't think legislative term limits are a good idea.

People don't have time and it government stuff usually pays less than working so people won't do it. You'd have to do something about the amount of hours people work and the pay. This is why how we currently run our country doesn't work with a republic/democracy.

edit: Also education would have to be way better.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:45

Islam is the Lite Rock FM: Jul 27, 2007; by exmarx

GlyphGryph posted:

Hey now, I support replacement of the 17th amendment (I'd prefer to see Senate elections handled by professional elector pool system in a manner similar to jury duty, where the people pegged are pulled at random from the voter pools and paid well for their service, but actually expected to research the candidates before voting), and I don't think I'm that stupid.

But then, maybe I am. It's possible. (It doesn't matter, it will never happen)

I still don't think legislative term limits are a good idea.

Then half the body would half-rear end their way through the term.

The whole loving point of government is to take care of things no one has time/money for.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:50

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

effectual posted:

So why do we still have them for the president, governors, etc?

It actually is pretty bogus that many states set term limits for governor very low, and as for the president it'd probably be better to have the term limit set at 3 or something.

Like there's a few states where the governor term limit is effectively a single term unless you wait one or two term cycles to be able to run again legally.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:51

SSJ_naruto_2003: Oct 12, 2012

Note: If we were to resurrect FDR I would be in support of Abolishing term limits.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:51

GlyphGryph: Jun 23, 2013; Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

DemeaninDemon posted:

Then half the body would half-rear end their way through the term.

The whole loving point of government is to take care of things no one has time/money for.

...what? What the hell does that have to do with what I said? Why would this in any way make it so Senators would half-rear end their way through a term? It would mean they'd have to waste a lot less time campaigning, and they'd have to do actual good work since a lot more of the prospective voters will be intimately familiar with their actual activities while in office.

quote:

People don't have time and it government stuff usually pays less than working so people won't do it. You'd have to do something about the amount of hours people work and the pay. This is why how we currently run our country doesn't work with a republic/democracy.

edit: Also education would have to be way better.

It would probably be enough to hire them for just two months or so. Full time, give 'em 40k-80k for their trouble. I don't think many people would turn that down, and just like Jury Duty it would be illegal to fire people for accepting.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:53

Amergin: Jan 29, 2013; THE SOUND A WET FART MAKES

If the issue with term limits is that it makes congressional slots rotate too quickly and therefore pushes power towards lobby groups and the parties, why not set the term limits on the high end to prevent zombies from holding office?

5 term senators/15 term House members, etc.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:57

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

AlternateNu posted:

Really, if you had complete guarantees on the quality of the candidate, the best form of government would actually be a benevolent dictatorship.

I'm not sure you can just prepend a descriptor to your chosen form of government to fix its issues. Like, why isn't the best form of government an "efficient democracy" or a "cooperative anarchy" or a "well-chosen meritocracy"?

VikingofRock fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Oct 2, 2014

# ? Oct 2, 2014 16:57

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 11:29

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Today the Nice Polite Republicans had an interesting conversation about a Council on Foreign Relations report which considers a watered down approach to something I've talked about quite a bit, a refocus on PanAmerican economics and issues.

# ? Oct 2, 2014 17:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Politics October: This is how we roll in the Hussein Clown Posse

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