US Politics October: This is how we roll in the Hussein Clown Posse

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Politics October: This is how we roll in the Hussein Clown Posse

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

Star Man posted:

So I have a dumb question.

My mother makes quips about members of congress needing term limits. Is there any reason why this would be a good or bad thing if representatives and senators were only able to serve for a limited number of terms?

Being in politics (and a legislature) is more than just a town hall and there's a lot of procedural gaming and position knowing, and other more esoteric things that aren't just going to be apparent to anyone not involved. Term limits means any politician who starts to pick up on these things gets thrown out so you're left with nothing but inexperienced legislators who instead of having reliable staffers to assist them turn to professional lobbyists.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2014 04:29

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 02:31

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

GlyphGryph posted:

I'd like to believe the people saying stuff like this aren't actually that loving dense, so I'm just going to assume I I explained it poorly.

First, keep in mind that elections already cost billions and billions of dollars per year. Democracy can get expensive!

But even then, assuming a reasonably sized elector pool of 50 people per state per senator (and it probably doesn't need to be that large except for the largest states), so 100 people. Assume 50k in compensation. That's $5 million spent per state, or $250 million for every senate election across the entire country, assuming they all happen at the same time (and they don't, so it would be significantly less than that). Then consider that we wouldn't be running traditional campaigns, so would probably save a chunk of what we spend on public financing for Senate candidates.

Hardly hundreds of billions of dollars. Where the gently caress did you even pull that number from?

Okay, clearly it was me, since everyone seems to have independently come up with an equally terrible but completely unrelated interpretation of what I said, none of which seem to have anything to do with what I actually meant.

Consider me suitably chastised for my posting skills.

But I'd like to at least try to clarify what I actually meant:
Randomly selected pool of electors vote in the actual election, probably between 20 and a hundred.
They are paid well for their 2 months or so of service, where they are expected to research and communicate and deliver a vote for the best candidate.
Like jury pools, legal protections for this group abound.
Everything else is per normal. (You'd probably need some custom tailored anti-corruption laws on top of what we've already got to keep things clean, admittedly)

Desired effect: Senators spend less time complaining. Are more highly rewarded for actual performance thanks to an electorate that is suitable equipped to understand what they've actually done, and they have the opportunity to interact with them all personally. The education of the individual voters about the issues and candidates ends up very high compared to now.

Things that will NOT happen:
Random schmucks being sent off to the senate (Well, this already happens, see Iowa, but I mean this doesn't seem like it would make it make it any more likely)
Hundreds of billions of dollars being paid to whoever
Whatever SirKibbles thought I meant, I was just honestly confused by that one

This seems like a very byzantine and anti-democratic solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2014 17:32

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

GlyphGryph posted:

This isn't even an argument. They don't pay for other poo poo because they benefit from not doing so, and don't benefit much from doing so. the pay ends up at the point where the benefit outweighs the cost.

The incentives for such a jury structure would naturally lead to higher pay than other similar positions, because the wealthy will sure as gently caress want their say and those who are close to them economically to have real pull, and not leave the decisions up to the poors.

It is like this idea sounds worse the more you describe it. What is the issue with popular statewide election of senators by the general electorate again?

# ¿ Oct 2, 2014 18:04

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

Luigi Thirty posted:

A person is more educated, a group of people is still stupid.

Also if we all die of Ebola because we don't have UHC and people can't afford to go to the hospital, does that make Ebola Obama's fault?

As the last American on this Earth coughs up their dying breath, rest assured on their blood speckled lips will be the words, "thanks, Obama."

# ¿ Oct 2, 2014 20:21

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

JT Jag posted:

gently caress.

Welp, there goes my long term plans of cultivating a public presence as a registered independent for a sweet sinecure on a redistricting board in five years. :smith:

# ¿ Oct 2, 2014 21:47

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

They never will though.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 05:04

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

Trabisnikof posted:

I've made the argument that there is nothing the democrats could do that would please the faction that is saying "the DNC isn't doing enough" without causing a worse electoral result. This is because of the nature of a liberal party and the vast and conflicting concepts of what "progress" is to the different factions of the party.

What should the Democrats do to keep their voter base from being suppressed into nothing?

You realize that the second two ideas would force the Ds into an even worse position in any swing states because of the overwhelming corporate dollars that would cause to be leveraged against them, right?

Which civil rights stuff?

Expanding the VRA? The Republicans also agree we should do that (but won't let it happen) so it won't exactly make a good campaign issue.
Reducing sentencing? Also some Republicans favor this, but if you think Ds don't lose to "soft on crime" you don't know how Giuliani got elected.
Voter suppression? The Ds are already against this, but this is a state level issue.

If you consider yourself very liberal or progressive guess what? The DNC will be more moderate than you, welcome to how a majority party works.

I'm not really weighing in on any of this but I just wanted to point out that Giuliani was elected 17 years ago. It is probably time to put that desiccated skull to rest.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 19:45

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

Well yeah, anyone making money in fracking country probably has some skewed perceptions.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2014 00:14

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

My Imaginary GF posted:

Perhaps you misinterpret me: the over-allocation of spending subsidizes the very top percents of asset holders in Americs. We have such low inflation because we give away too much money to the super-rich.

That's not really the case. Or it is the case in the sense that rentiers benefit from the current low inflationary regime (even if it is better than say, the EU) but it is a misplacement of benefits to say we have low-inflation because we give money to rich as it is to say we have low-inflation to benefit the rich. Either way we've gone on so long into this unspoken recession for so long that's why talk is starting to drift towards secular stagnation than just simple inflationary/deflationary arguments, at least in the US.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2014 08:21

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

Sometimes I do wish the American version of House of Cards never got made because it tricked a bunch of supposedly smart people into thinking they were Metternich when they were really the cast of Veep. Underwood basically abandons any pretense of policy by the first episode and he is clearly a total threat to the Union but nerds just lap that poo poo up.

edit: "I am an amoral monster slurp slurp slurp crush teachers unions sabotage healthcare murder people this is true power slurp slurp slurp"

double edit: Alpha House is probably more closer to the truth than House of Cards

Berke Negri fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Oct 4, 2014

# ¿ Oct 4, 2014 08:57

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

My Imaginary GF posted:

Veeptalk: Anyone who calls themself a Dan is 100% Jonad.

Alpha House, House of Cards, and Veep all have different kernals of truth to them. Sometimes, the three overlap on an issue and its hilarious.

No, Underwood's CoS character is the only remotely believable character out of it all. Even then he wouldn't be that hands on. And for a whip, geez.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2014 09:14

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

To be fair, Chicago machine politics being equivalent to East African politics is an insult to East African politics.

But its probably true.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2014 09:21

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

Tatum Girlparts posted:

SOMEBODY STOP THIS MADMAN MAKING POSTS ONLINE!

Seriously settle down dude, Imaginary GF is either a really lovely troll or a legitimately stupid as poo poo product of the world's biggest privilege bubble, regardless he's really not worth the hysteria you're carrying through multiple threads.

MIG is closer to "wonkish" dem thinking than I would like to admit, when it comes to macro. It is still neo-classical in nature. I butted heads with peers on this constantly in my masters over immigration. Most operatives don't think in an old or new keynes framework and I think this shows in Emmanuel's disdain over needing a more robust stimulus back in 2009.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2014 09:41

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

icantfindaname posted:

Literal Genocide

That was the tried and true strategy of the Romans in any case, history's best imperialists

Roman genocide is exaggerated and overblown at best - PartisanPuella

# ¿ Oct 5, 2014 04:42

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 02:31

Berke Negri: Feb 15, 2012; Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao

Trabisnikof posted:

The democrats are too afraid to nominate someone born after Jimmy Carter's presidency.

That person would still be considered very young for president.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 03:57

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Politics October: This is how we roll in the Hussein Clown Posse