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Broken Loose posted:No, Aila was the one crying at the wheel. Except she didn't. She was straight-up winning her fight until the G-Self noticed Bell's protagonist field and malfunctioned. Like dumbass was about to punch her loving beam saber and get himself killed before G-Self saved him. Broken Loose posted:They didn't have to immediately present Vegetable crying, but they did for some reason. They showed her tearing up as she was literally suffocating. I mean I guess they could have excluded the tears to avoid your criteria of "women should never cry or else they're weak" but that's a bit much. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 06:49
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Caros posted:I think his complaint is that 3/3 episodes of G-reco have involved women crying about something. Not exactly a stellar fact considering how gundam treats women. And the crying in episode 2 was legit a reason as you can possibly get and we don't even know what she's crying about in the unaired episode. It *is* really silly to see a shot of a woman crying without any context in an episode preview and to immediately assume it's for a dumb reason! Srice fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 06:51
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Srice posted:And the crying in episode 2 was legit a reason as you can possibly get and we don't even know what she's crying about in the unaired episode. With Gundam's history of female characters, coupled with the fact that said pilot started bawling when she lost a fight in the first episode? I wouldn't say it is as silly as you think. But we will see!
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Oct 3, 2014 06:55
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Caros posted:I literally have no idea having watched the episode twice whether this nation called Ameria, who I know nothing about, is the nation who is attacking the base of the Central Academy/Guard/Army/Lollipop Brigade. One could assume that it is them since the mobile suits they are using are supposedly Ameria mobile suits, and the one lady talks about the captain as someone who could have somehow impacted Ameria's policy, but I thought they were pirates. I the viewer literally do not know the name of the attacking force. The Capital people are worried about Ameria and think that the pirates might be a false flag from Ameria to make a move on them. We don't know who the gently caress Ameria is yet, but it's not important beyond the fact that the characters regard Ameria as enough of a threat that they think the guys attacking them might be those guys. They nearly kill the person they're trying to rescue because they don't know she's with the Gundam until it's almost too late. Captain Crunch hesitates in his Hundred Crack Fist when he notices she's there and gets popped because of it. The G-Self was kicking the poo poo out of cargo bots until it came into contact with Bellri at which point it malfunctioned and stopped working. The cargobots are the normal mobile suits of the capital guard and they're armed with lovely welders and cargo arms. The Caitsith flying things that the Capital Army were using were getting ripped to shreds by the pirate bots and the G-Self managed to rip a pirate bot to death with vulcan fire. I think it's fair to say that the G-Self, much like most other Gundams, is a Big Deal. Bellri is trying to get to the tower because he has a crush on Aida and doesn't want to see her get killed. His friends understand this and help him because of it under the guise of making sure the prisoner is secured. Their plan was to grab the girl and get to the Gundam, they mention this a couple of times. There's four factions so far. Space Pirates, Capital Guard, Capital Army, Ameria. We know very little about any of them yet but it's not like a gigantic byzantine maze of confusion. Bellri is a cadet in the capital guard and Captain Crunch and Aida are Space Pirates.
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Oct 3, 2014 06:56
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ImpAtom posted:I mean I guess they could have excluded the tears to avoid your criteria of "women should never cry or else they're weak" but that's a bit much. As I said before, the show is presenting a consistent troublesome tone, to the point where the context of those depictions is becoming secondary to the consistency. Since people are not seeing this clearly, imagine a hypothetical show where the first episode features a pantomimed rape for laughs, followed by more and more rape jokes per episode and escalating to main characters being repeatedly raped on screen. Each of those incidents could be contextually logical but the consistency of that concept's depiction is itself troublesome. In G-Reco, women are incompetent, cheerleaders, stage dancers for a room full of male politicians, or the main character's mother. They are also consistently crying, violently jealous, displaying fanservice, or just madly in love with one of the noble male characters.
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Oct 3, 2014 06:58
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Broken Loose posted:As I said before, the show is presenting a consistent troublesome tone, to the point where the context of those depictions is becoming secondary to the consistency. People crying is not equitable to rape.
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Oct 3, 2014 06:59
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Broken Loose posted:As I said before, the show is presenting a consistent troublesome tone, to the point where the context of those depictions is becoming secondary to the consistency. Holy reductio ad absurdum, batman. This is is goofier than the bunny ears argument.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:00
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I'm glad that as a forum we've evolved from the Car Analogy to the much more lucrative Rape Analogy market, however.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:00
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Sharkopath posted:People crying is not equitable to rape. I brought it up because that hypothetical show aired a year ago and people still defended it.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:01
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Broken Loose posted:As I said before, the show is presenting a consistent troublesome tone, to the point where the context of those depictions is becoming secondary to the consistency. Holy lol. Did you not stop and read the words you typed at any point Sharkopath posted:I'm glad that as a forum we've evolved from the Car Analogy to the much more lucrative Rape Analogy market, however. Same SAME Srice fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 07:01
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Broken Loose posted:As I said before, the show is presenting a consistent troublesome tone, to the point where the context of those depictions is becoming secondary to the consistency. You've yet to actually justify your explanation. Aida is not incompetent from what we're shown. She is handily winning her fight until she gets plot-screwed. In fact she is winning despite holding back (she avoided killing blows). So far she has yet to ineptly fail through her own means except maybe by not jumping into the G-Self's cockpit effectively in the second episode, which is still less ineptitude than that shown by our protagonist who tries to punch a beam saber and runs face-first into a wall. You're tying 'she cried' to 'she is useless and inept and incapable' which isn't actually backed up in the show so far at all. Then you try to go "no, see, the context doesn't matter, she just cries a lot and THAT is what matters!"
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Oct 3, 2014 07:03
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Broken Loose posted:As I said before, the show is presenting a consistent troublesome tone, to the point where the context of those depictions is becoming secondary to the consistency. What the gently caress is wrong with you? Stop posting.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:07
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Well this is exactly what the topic needed.  I don't have that much of an opinion on the show yet, hasn't quite been the attention grab that say, King Gainer had, but hasn't exactly been painful. Just... kinda lukewarm, so far? Mechs look decent in animation.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:11
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Broken Loose posted:I brought it up because that hypothetical show aired a year ago and people still defended it. I don't think the situations are really equitable though, somebody losing a robot fight and being sad and somebody being raped are entirely different orders of magnitude. It's unfortunate as is but I have a hope that as the plot moves forward everybody will be given more agency.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:11
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Every time Broken Loose makes a "criticism" and you are tempted to argue with it, think back to his sperging over v-fin/camera interactions and ask yourself "Is this worth it?"
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Oct 3, 2014 07:11
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StrifeHira posted:Well this is exactly what the topic needed. Lukewarm is a good word for it honestly. Also, is it me or is the soundtrack kind of... barely there? Sharkopath posted:It's unfortunate as is but I have a hope that as the plot moves forward everybody will be given more agency. Well, at very least, the G-Arcane is showing up. Not that that assures a good showing. (MISS SAZABI) but it isn't like Aida's getting shoved off into the crap-mecha ghetto.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:13
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ImpAtom posted:Well, at very least, the G-Arcane is showing up. Not that that assures a good showing. (MISS SAZABI) but it isn't like Aida's getting shoved off into the crap-mecha ghetto. Wait until it turns into a backpack for the G-Self.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:16
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ImpAtom posted:Lukewarm is a good word for it honestly. It was doing this muted big dramatic swelling orchestra thing when they were like standing around in the classroom and I thought that was funny. I think the main action theme is alright, the one that plays at the finale of fights and when the G-Self starts moving. The sound design in general seems very understated, though I love the eyecatch noise for the Grimoire's, it sounds like the ray guns from War of the Worlds (1953). Also I thought it was worth mentioning, even if it's an unintentional reference: Aida's name might just come from the play, Aida. The Egyptians have captured and enslaved Aida, an Ethiopian princess. An Egyptian military commander, Radamès, struggles to choose between his love for her and his loyalty to the Pharaoh.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:17
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Pretty good first couple of episodes. Until Bellri's eyes flashed on that dudes monitor I seriously though the G-self was DNA locked and he only rubbed a strand of her hair on it to open the hatch. The G Arcane was cool. I'm in it for a few more episodes. I don't get the crying argument. Each instance has felt believable and appropriate to the situation. My friend and ally just died. I just lost a fight and got captured by the enemy. I failed my mission and was forced to bail out at high altitude. Give it a rest until we see more of the show. Geez.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:27
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Alright here's hoping the Try thread doesn't pull this poo poo on the first episode. The show is pretty, we have a go getter for a Gundam pilot, and there's no Emily(You all know the wrong girl died and AGE could have been saved)! Lets give it a few more episodes before starting the women in Gundam meltdown. This is not the last time there will be tears in the eventual war love pentagram.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:28
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The Missing Link posted:Pretty good first couple of episodes. Until Bellri's eyes flashed on that dudes monitor I seriously though the G-self was DNA locked and he only rubbed a strand of her hair on it to open the hatch. The G Arcane was cool. I'm in it for a few more episodes. I think his point isn't that the crying isn't justified (Though you honestly think her bawling over losing a fight is appropriate? Would you think it was weird if she was a he?), its that if it becomes a consistent thing it says something about the mindset of the writing and the show in general. His rape analogy isn't really hard to follow. An awkward choice, but if you cut down the rage machine the point he is making is pretty clear. Every bit of torture in the saw films logically makes sense to be there considering it is about a torturous serial killer, but at the end of the day you are still left with a film that has a lot of torture in it. Or as a direct example. Every instance of China from build fighters standing on the sidelines going 'Iori-kun' with a worried look on her face makes perfect sense. That is the sort of character she was written to be. The question is did she need to be written that way, and what does it say about the show's view on women that they largely exist to stand at the sidelines and worry. They could have a friend of Aida's die in every single episode and it would make sense from a story and plot standpoint. But it doesn't exactly send a positive message about women now does it?
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Oct 3, 2014 07:33
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Haven't seen the show yet (seriously, is there a legal way to view this in the US yet?), but it shouldn't be hard to understand being kind of annoyed that literally every episode so far features a girl crying, even if it is justified on an individual basis. Of course, for only the first 2 episodes + a third episode preview, it would also be a little strange to get incredibly worked up over it.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:36
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Didn't Tomino initially pitch this show a few years ago as being about a "big sister" character or something too?
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Oct 3, 2014 07:41
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Caros posted:I think his point isn't that the crying isn't justified (Though you honestly think her bawling over losing a fight is appropriate? Would you think it was weird if she was a he?), its that if it becomes a consistent thing it says something about the mindset of the writing and the show in general. Yeah I think crying over losing a fight is at least relatable. She just kinda let some drop and sucked it up to face her captors a minute or so later. We have two episodes. I Like people showing emotion which is hard to get across in animation. I'll label her a Whiny Babby myself if she keeps doing it throughout the series.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:51
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im breaking loose
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Oct 3, 2014 08:26
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There's a guy with a mask in the ED I think HE IS A CHAR
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Oct 3, 2014 08:44
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Well those sure were two episodes. Bellri feels like a regular dude who got thrown into a Tomino show. "YOU KILLED HIM CAN'T YOU BRING HIM BACK TO LIFE?!?!" "what" EDIT: So if I'm understanding this right, Raraya or whatever is brain damaged from oxygen deprivation? Is she literally a moeblob? Oh Tomino. 
BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 08:57
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First two episodes were rad as hell. Some pretty good fights coupled with good mech designs and a great OP and decent ED. For the people not understanding, I don't get you. The capital guards guard the elevators which are under attack by the pirates which may or may not be funded by Ameria. Nothing about that is hard to understand. Like do you turn on the first two episodes of Zeta and then bitch about how you don't know who the AEUG or Titans are and that it doesn't make sense that the Federation guys are beating the poo poo outta bright and that there's some rear end in a top hat who looks like char but calls himself Quattro. Just give the show time to explain itself, they want you to be in the dark about some of this poo poo, that's what makes for a good show. And I'm not even going to touch the crying rape analogies that certain posters, and you know who you are, are making. Just give the show time before you start your complaining. If it turns out that the show is some horrible misogynistic screed than that will be that, but judging something by two episodes and a preview is just massively idiotic. If you watched the first two episodes of Doouble Zeta you'd think it's about a bunch of junkyard orphans trying to steal spaceships with a space hobo by throwing fruit.
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Oct 3, 2014 09:54
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Did anyone else catch the NT-D Activation sound effect when the G-Self started glowing?
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Oct 3, 2014 10:18
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ImpAtom posted:Aida is not incompetent from what we're shown. She is handily winning her fight until she gets plot-screwed. In fact she is winning despite holding back (she avoided killing blows). So far she has yet to ineptly fail through her own means except maybe by not jumping into the G-Self's cockpit effectively in the second episode, which is still less ineptitude than that shown by our protagonist who tries to punch a beam saber and runs face-first into a wall. Despite her holding her own more than well enough until the G-Self starts malfunctioning, her comments as they're hauling her in seem to suggest she has screwed up in the past as well. I kind of assumed she was crying out of frustration with herself there rather than just because she was being captured by the enemy. I would assume that's setting up character development over random misogyny without further evidence though. 
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Oct 3, 2014 10:25
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I know that characters acting in ways that make no sense and random things happening for no adequately explained reason is a Tomino thing in general but I was hoping Reconquista would have something more to it than that this early on. The biggest problem with the show is that it doesn't know what it is going for so far and comes across as aimless. Are we supposed to care about the conflict between the capital and the pirates? Then don't cut away from the part where each side's mouthpiece yells at each other. Are we supposed to care about what happens in the action scenes? In that case they need to feel like there is a sense of danger and we have a clear side to root for. It does feel like we are supposed to care about the characters and their relationships. But in that case they should have conversations with each other that aren't exposition. Sure, characters do a few interesting things to establish their personalities with each other, like Bellri dodging his superior (good, quick, and to the point) and Jealous Girl slinging rocks at Crying Girl because she is "sticking out her butt" while the latter hangs on to the remains of a building  (lol Tomino).Mediocre shows can often pull off at least one of these things, but what saddens me is that Tomino knows how to do all of those things at once. Two episodes into Zeta we already knew the Titans were the new nazis and Kamille was an angry teenager lashing out at them. Loran was a good Moonrace kid who managed to adapt to the Earth just fine and his homeland stands divided between just plain invading Ameria and settling down peacefully. I can't tell if he's intentionally turning to bad writing just to troll the audience or if he's just gone senile. I was carefully optimistic about this show and I will continue to be like that I guess. But now my expectations are even lower, particularly in light of how much Tomino has been building up this one. GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 13:02
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It's also possible that this is a V Gundam style in media res opening. That said, I didn't really find anything in these episodes to be too hard to follow if you pay attention to what people are saying. There's basically no real exposition dump dialogue(which is super duper weird by modern anime standards) so you need to pick things up by context, which is how King Gainer(a show I hated, but understand why people like), V Gundam, and Xabungle all worked. I went into these two episodes expecting to loving hate them based on the character designs and the sheer bitterness of Tomino in his interviews and ended up really liking them a lot.
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Oct 3, 2014 13:07
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I can tell this show is good because there's only been 2 episodes out and Broken "Crying about Gundams not being realistic for 40 post" Loose already has more than half a page of posts crying about the show. Like Aida has shown to be one of the most competent pilots we've seen in this shows majestically long 2 episode run so far, but she teared up when her friend and ally was murdered and while she was choking to death so this is the most misogynistic anime since forever. Relax man, breathe. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 13:24
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GimmickMan posted:Jealous Girl slinging rocks at Crying Girl because she is "sticking out her butt" while the latter hangs on to the remains of a building Seemed like it was just her nutty way of telling Aida to stay still while Bellri runs upstairs to help to me, dude. She did already have her slingshot out. I also don't understand all the posts about the show being hard to follow. Have I simply watched so much Gundam (not to mention all that other stuff) I am fluent in Tomino now?
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Oct 3, 2014 13:29
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John Carstairs posted:I also don't understand all the posts about the show being hard to follow. Have I simply watched so much Gundam (not to mention all that other stuff) I am fluent in Tomino now? Could be, I didn't have much problem following what was going on. Compared to Brain Powered it practically had Speedwagon explaining what was happening at all times.
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Oct 3, 2014 13:40
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To me it makes sense but it lacks weight. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to care about what is going on and that's what I was getting at.Kanos posted:It's also possible that this is a V Gundam style in media res opening. There is quite a bit of exposition, both episodes start with it and the subs at least read like stereotypical Sci Fi Introductory Dialogue. The exposition given just doesn't say a lot that is... Interesting. Now to be fair, there are a few things that I liked too. The scene with Bellri's mother was a good character building moment in how casual it all was presented and Raraiya Monday has the best excuse I've seen for being a mysterious anime moeblob. Some of the action bits were well animated and Tomino finally manned up and mocked his ridiculous character naming conventions. The "Kuntala" thing shows some of this show's potential in not deliberately explaining everything, in that so far all we can see in it is what we want to see. Also Bellri runs into a wall then falls down the stairs. That sure was a thing.
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Oct 3, 2014 13:50
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I can tell this show is good because there's only been 2 episodes out and Broken "Crying about Gundams not being realistic for 40 post" Loose already has more than half a page of posts crying about the show. The most hilarious part about people bitching that I said the bunny ears were a bad design decision was that in episode 1 the Gundam is grappled into submission by the bunny ears. Then again you're also saying that Crying Love Interest is a competent pilot when all she did was lose to first timers in unarmed grunts and then cry about it. I mean, if "good pilot" is the narrative we're going with now, seeing as the excuse last page was that nothing indicated her being a good pilot.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:08
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I would argue that the situation was more complex than you are making it out to be.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:12
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Broken Loose posted:The most hilarious part about people bitching that I said the bunny ears were a bad design decision was that in episode 1 the Gundam is grappled into submission by the bunny ears. Nope. Once again you're ignoring what happened onscreen. Bell grabbed the G-Self but the reason she didn't just break free is because the G-Self started to malfunction. ("What's the mater G-Self, that isn't the right response?!") Then she just accelerated until he was forced to let go. "Grappled into submission" is in fact 100% inaccurate and you making poo poo up. She didn't lose. She was handily winning the fight while holding back until the G-Self malfunctioned. This has been stated multiple times and you ignore it each time. Literally the only reason she lost the fight is because the G-Self didn't want to kill the protagonist because of his plot device.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:15
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So far this seems like a pretty great show with lots of interesting characters and that good old light-hearted Tomino feel to it. Can't wait for episode 3!
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