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Srice posted:I think I'd enjoy it if they did it in a way that doesn't wink at the audience about it. Maybe just implying that the crazy tech for the Turn A is being worked on and leaving it up in the air as to what that could mean. Vague mention on trying to reverse-engineer the technology of a machine found on the Solar System's edge? I could buy that. 
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Oct 3, 2014 19:12
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it would have been pretty funny if she had bailed in a particularly egregious way, to be honest
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Oct 3, 2014 19:13
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ImpAtom posted:Nobody is saying it doesn't. It is the fact that the argument is focused around "crying is bad" which is what makes it kinda worthless. If we admit the show has issues representing women equally then when viewed through a critical lens those scenes have to be a part of that too, for reasons I should think are obvious. Just because BL can be acerbic and prone to hyperbole doesn't mean we have to treat certain scenes differently.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:14
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John Carstairs posted:I must admit that this is the sort of thing I expected when I heard they were intentionally trying to make the show more feminist: I was so happy when she made that jump, then sad that my expectations were so low that I was surprised when she was allowed to be successful.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:15
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muike posted:it would have been pretty funny if she had bailed in a particularly egregious way, to be honest People trying to jump over water but failing is always funny, man or woman.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:16
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Koopa Kid posted:If we admit the show has issues representing women equally then when viewed through a critical lens those scenes have to be a part of that too, for reasons I should think are obvious. Just because BL can be acerbic and prone to hyperbole doesn't mean we have to treat certain scenes differently. The problem is that that seems to be the crux of the argument, and it's misrepresented constantly.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:16
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Srice posted:People trying to jump over water but failing is always funny, man or woman. This, too, is a truth of Feminism 101
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Oct 3, 2014 19:16
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Out of the linedance troupe there are still 9 women we haven't seen at all. Only one has been actually crying for emotional reasons. Vegetable was spinning like mad and vomiting while suffocating. Please also notice that one of them has bunny ears. She must be G-Self's designer.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:16
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Lurking Haro posted:Only one has been actually crying for emotional reasons. Vegetable was spinning like mad and vomiting while suffocating. She actually cries when she sees G-Self being captured and such as well. ...but she may be experiencing the robot's own emotions for all we know about the Mysterious Connection™ she seems to have with it.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:19
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Astro Nut posted:I actually kinda wish the flying suit was standard pilot wear in this setting. I mean, given how rarely mobile suits have any form of escape pod, some way to bail whilst fighting in mid-air would be kinda useful. That would be pretty great, provided helmets and oxygen tanks were also standard issue.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:21
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Potsticker posted:That would be pretty great, provided helmets and oxygen tanks were also standard issue. Good point. Don't need the Char clone sputtering out 'G' as he tries to recover from the oxygen deprivation.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:22
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Whoever made the comparison to King Gainer, they were spot on. A lot of the same feeling, with the same style of exposition, except a bit better done, honestly. Just enough to give you an idea of what's going on, but little enough that we're gonna find out a lot of new stuff as we go along. It helps that the protagonist is a bit clueless, it seems. It's basically everything I wanted a Gundam series to be. Definitely a lot more engaging than most early UC poo poo so far. Also, the girl cried: when she was captured, as in when she failed her mission and potentially faced execution for space piracy (something mentioned in the second episode,)something that only happened because she was outnumbered and taken off-guard by emergency functions of non-combat robots, which the show made a big deal about, and when she saw a man she admired who was very likely a mentor if not father figure to her, get killed, by her own machine. No poo poo she's gonna cry. We're two episodes in, reserve judgement about the show's portrayal of women at least until we're half a dozen episodes in.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:29
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Astro Nut posted:Good point. Don't need the Char clone sputtering out 'G' as he tries to recover from the oxygen deprivation. Honestly 1000 years in the future they could do with a little Space OSHA.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:32
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WickedHate posted:That's not what the "this show is sexist so far" argument is focused around, it's one of multiple complaints and people just keep getting hung up on that one. Man, I was making the arguments about the crappiness of the plot being "guy steals a girl's robot" since it was announced. The only reason I'm arguing at all is because the exaggeration became "Aida is a completely inept pilot who broke down at the wheel and got captured and constantly cries" which isn't what happened in the show at all
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Oct 3, 2014 19:32
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Sharkopath posted:Or maybe the feminist angle is just something that becomes more prominent as the story develops. Actually, the show is supposedly 25 episodes, which means we are well past 5% in. Not that I disagree with you, I just felt like being pedantic.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:35
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Sharkopath posted:Not having read anything beyond tomino interviews about the themes, barring hail mary twists, I really don't think the world in this show is all that obtuse: See, all these elements, and the overall structure they form, are nice things to have but it's like building the scaffold and forgetting to build the thing the scaffold is there to build; there's no substance for people to care about, only things that exist and imply the existence of other things for no end purpose in particular, and there really isn't anything so inherently interesting about this world to begin with. People are saying how they like this lack of blatant exposition, but this has hit the other end of lacking exposition to the point of being a skeletal husk. C'mon Tomino, give us something to chew on.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:37
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  Jii no Reconguista Jii Jii Jii Lurking Haro fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 19:38
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ViggyNash posted:See, all these elements, and the overall structure they form, are nice things to have but it's like building the scaffold and forgetting to build the thing the scaffold is there to build; there's no substance for people to care about, only things that exist and imply the existence of other things for no end purpose in particular, and there really isn't anything so inherently interesting about this world to begin with. It's given us a lot more to work with than Turn A did it in first few episodes, at the very least. Hell, I'm really excited about this! We've already seen at least two huge hints at some huge conspiracy. This is gonna be fun!
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Oct 3, 2014 19:42
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everythingWasBees posted:It's given us a lot more to work with than Turn A did it in first few episodes, at the very least. Turn-A made the concept and motivations very clear in the first two episodes. I can't agree it gave you less to chew on.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:56
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ImpAtom posted:Turn-A made the concept and motivations very clear in the first two episodes. I can't agree it gave you less to chew on. Turn-A was incredibly sparse on exposition the first few episodes as well. The character motivations were clearer, yeah, but that was it. I think in terms of plot exposition, though, this show has been a lot clearer. There's also a good chance I'm misremembering it, but I do remember feeling like I didn't know all that much about the setting.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:59
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everythingWasBees posted:Turn-A was incredibly sparse on exposition the first few episodes as well. The character motivations were clearer, yeah, but that was it. I think in terms of plot exposition, though, this show has been a lot clearer. I don't really agree. Within the first episode of Turn-A you knew Loran was a moonrace who secretly came down to Earth and wanted all his people to come with him. The second episode sets the stakes and basic conflict very clearly. G-Reco sort of waves at Aida's motivation (before intentionally hiding the general response to it) and otherwise has lots of minor worldbuilding but not a lot of focus. It's probable this stuff will become clear but it is weird how it is presented. Not just because it is obscured but because it is unnecessarily obscured (or so it feels, there may be a reason later on.) I don't tend to give Tomino automatic benefit of the doubt. He is a good director but not a flawless one and he may have made Gundam/Zambot/ect but he also made Brain Powered. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 20:06
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ImpAtom posted:I don't really agree. Within the first episode of Turn-A you knew Loran was a moonrace who secretly came down to Earth and wanted all his people to come with him. The second episode sets the stakes and basic conflict very clearly. G-Reco sort of waves at Aida's motivation (before intentionally hiding the general response to it) and otherwise has lots of minor worldbuilding but not a lot of focus. Ah, fair enough. I guess I'm not getting the obscured bit because unlike Turn A, we're getting a sense of the direction of the plot as well, I feel like. Though I do wish we had a better idea about some of the characters. Knowing nothing about the main protagonist is something that kinda bugs me, but hopefully it'll go the way of King Gainer and tell us another episode or two in his main motivations, besides living up to his mother's expectations. Also I was thinking of watching Brain Powerd soon. What's wrong with it?
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Oct 3, 2014 20:13
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Koopa Kid posted:I don't want to get dragged into the semantics but given that almost all the women we're introduced to with any agency so far either fail at their job and are rescued/protected by a man or are literal cheerleaders I don't think it's unreasonable to say this show has issues with women so far. All the pilots being boys, and all the girls being loving cheerleaders was... pretty lovely. Even if those cheerleader girls end up being not-poo poo characters, it was a rough start. And Monday's just... the most terrible thing. I wish people spent pages ranting about what a terrible character she is, and all the terrible things she represents, rather than ragging on the fact that the only female character to actually do stuff expresses her emotions. (Just throwing this out there: maybe if you can't imagine a guy being openly emotional in emotional situations... the problem is your expectations for guys. Whatsername was exceptionally professional when it counted.)
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Oct 3, 2014 20:15
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Eiba posted:All the pilots being boys, and all the girls being loving cheerleaders was... pretty lovely. Even if those cheerleader girls end up being not-poo poo characters, it was a rough start. Going in having heard the "We're making it more feminist!" stuff, I did have to stifle a laugh when I saw that. Maybe it's intentional, and pirate land'll be a bit more egalitarian or something.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:33
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Eiba posted:This I can agree with. It's frustrating that all the energy in the discussion has been going towards "crying is bad" because that is one of the only things that isn't an issue here. Monday is just like... even if she's supposed to be a weird Tomino parody of a moeblob, she's still basically one. Maybe he'll do something more with her but it's an awful awful start.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:38
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ImpAtom posted:Monday is just like... even if she's supposed to be a weird Tomino parody of a moeblob, she's still basically one. Maybe he'll do something more with her but it's an awful awful start.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:41
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I leave for a day and the conversation took a turn for the weird. Or is this what passes for normal when it comes to discussing Gundam shows? Regardless. You know what confuses me from all this?
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Oct 3, 2014 20:43
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Wark Say posted:I leave for a day and the conversation took a turn for the weird. Or is this what passes for normal when it comes to discussing Gundam shows? Regardless. You know what confuses me from all this? Because that's how much they want to fund it for, and Tomino is hard enough to work with already, Yes, but Tomino likely had to cede ground on that because of good old "Executive Meddling" penis yes
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Oct 3, 2014 20:44
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muike posted:I kinda of feel like maybe she is since she's literally brain damaged to be that way but I don't want to think about it too hard because I know there is a deep dark hole that I will fall down I'd give it the benefit of the doubt but Puru exists.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:44
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ImpAtom posted:I'd give it the benefit of the doubt but Puru exists. This is also a truth.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:45
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Monday is kinda completely awful, yeah. I'm really hoping they do something cool with her soon.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:45
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everythingWasBees posted:Monday is kinda completely awful, yeah. It's interesting they all treat her as if her condition isn't permanent. Maybe she'll kick some rear end once that happens.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:54
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Lurking Haro posted:It's interesting they all treat her as if her condition isn't permanent. Maybe she'll kick some rear end once that happens. I think they're treating it more as shock from the lack of oxygen and the whole thing, than as straight up permanent brain damage. EDIT: Oh. Apparently amnesia due to lack of oxygen is a thing, and usually temporary. everythingWasBees fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 20:56
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everythingWasBees posted:I think they're treating it more as shock from the lack of oxygen and the whole thing, than as straight up permanent brain damage. Kinda reminds me of a more extreme case of what Amuro's dad had. Better hope she stays away from stairs!
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Oct 3, 2014 21:26
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Srice posted:Better hope she stays away from stairs! We've already seen what they can do once in this very series.
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Oct 3, 2014 21:27
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Monday is just bad because she's from entirely different universe
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Oct 3, 2014 22:09
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OneDeadman posted:Monday is just bad because she's from entirely different universe It's been a while since I've played that game, but I seem to recall Meredy doing more than Monday has done, even when she couldn't speak the same language as the rest of the party. She also had a kickass squirrel. Does Monday have a squirrel? NOPE.
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Oct 3, 2014 22:23
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Did Tomino use the English word 'feminist'? Because the Japanese use that word to mean chivalrous.
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Oct 3, 2014 22:42
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Snow Halation posted:Did Tomino use the English word 'feminist'? Because the Japanese use that word to mean chivalrous. If I remember correctly the interview was worded about how great/important/strong women are and can be. Might be wrong though. Its the simplest character arc to have an emotionally fragile character become stronger and more self assured, also. Sharkopath fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 22:58
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I heard about it in this very forum, but can't find the interview or whatever in question in Japanese.Sharkopath posted:If I remember correctly the interview was worded about how great/important/strong women are and can be. From you, in fact! Did you set me up for disappointment, Sharkopath? 
John Carstairs fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 23:04
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