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I have to say the absolute weirdest thing in the first episodes was Bell starting to give us explosition on why Earth can't have solar panels, it cuts away for half a second and returns to him going "and that's why" right before he gets slapped. Like... I can't tell if that is Tomino going "this isn't important" (despite it being a characters' major motivation) or if it's supposed to be some kind of poorly-kept secret.
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Oct 3, 2014 05:34
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Eiba posted:The reason why they can't is probably pure propaganda. Whatsername certainly thought it was, based on her frustrated reaction. So on that level it probably isn't important. It absolutely is pure propaganda but the propaganda and countering it are the primary motivation we're given for her so far. That frustrated reaction is something based off Bell said that we didn't see. They're not just assuming that everyone knows, they specifically cut it out only for the audience which is either clumsy or just kind of bad writing. I can't really agree with the latter at all. If there is one thing Episode 2 did poorly I think it was convey a sense of immediate crisis. Everyone was entirely too relaxed about the situation even for a Tomino show. It wasn't even that it was played as comedy so much as just like... it lacked urgency. I never got a sense of fear or panic or even anything more than mild concern from any character. Really, that is the thing that I'm starting to feel upon thinking about the episodes. Everything felt really subdued in a kind of weird way. The most shocking moment was Bell straight-up murdering the guy with the beam rifle shot to the cockpit, but even that felt oddly subdued. I kind of liked it there though because it felt kind of eerie not to have any cockpit death shot. He was just gone. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 06:06
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Broken Loose posted:AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAH I JUST WATCHED THE NEXT EPISODE PREVIEW I'm not really seeing the bad part here? I mean, yes, she is crying because the guy she seemed to have a huge respect for got straight-up killed.
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Oct 3, 2014 06:22
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Broken Loose posted:The same woman who broke down crying at the wheel in episode 1 and got her Gundam captured as a result? Uh, what? Her Gundam got captured in episode 1 after it started to malfunction. She didn't break down crying at the wheel. She did have a frustrated crying thing afterwards which was weird but portraying it as 'she broke down crying and got captured' is straight-up inaccurate.
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Oct 3, 2014 06:27
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Broken Loose posted:All right, so there have been 2 female pilots in the show. Vegetable's FIRST THING SHE DID ON SCREEN was jump out of a cockpit crying. Aila's literally broken into hysterics every episode ("I get like this sometimes!"). The main character's mom showed up for 30 seconds, and everybody else is a cheerleader. With actual pom-poms. ... You mean the scene where Monday gets thrown out of her suit and is dying in Earth's upper atmosphere? Because if you're reading that as "she had a crying fit at the wheel" then I'm not sure what to say. The show doesn't have a great female cast so far but you're literally claiming things happened that didn't. Aida's "hysterics" in the first episode amounted to her tearing up in private for a few seconds and describing her as hysterical based on that scene is stretching it beyond the breaking point. Her second was, I think it's fair to say, at least somewhat justified. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 06:38
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Broken Loose posted:No, Aila was the one crying at the wheel. Except she didn't. She was straight-up winning her fight until the G-Self noticed Bell's protagonist field and malfunctioned. Like dumbass was about to punch her loving beam saber and get himself killed before G-Self saved him. Broken Loose posted:They didn't have to immediately present Vegetable crying, but they did for some reason. They showed her tearing up as she was literally suffocating. I mean I guess they could have excluded the tears to avoid your criteria of "women should never cry or else they're weak" but that's a bit much. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 06:49
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Broken Loose posted:As I said before, the show is presenting a consistent troublesome tone, to the point where the context of those depictions is becoming secondary to the consistency. You've yet to actually justify your explanation. Aida is not incompetent from what we're shown. She is handily winning her fight until she gets plot-screwed. In fact she is winning despite holding back (she avoided killing blows). So far she has yet to ineptly fail through her own means except maybe by not jumping into the G-Self's cockpit effectively in the second episode, which is still less ineptitude than that shown by our protagonist who tries to punch a beam saber and runs face-first into a wall. You're tying 'she cried' to 'she is useless and inept and incapable' which isn't actually backed up in the show so far at all. Then you try to go "no, see, the context doesn't matter, she just cries a lot and THAT is what matters!"
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Oct 3, 2014 07:03
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StrifeHira posted:Well this is exactly what the topic needed. Lukewarm is a good word for it honestly. Also, is it me or is the soundtrack kind of... barely there? Sharkopath posted:It's unfortunate as is but I have a hope that as the plot moves forward everybody will be given more agency. Well, at very least, the G-Arcane is showing up. Not that that assures a good showing. (MISS SAZABI) but it isn't like Aida's getting shoved off into the crap-mecha ghetto.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:13
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Broken Loose posted:The most hilarious part about people bitching that I said the bunny ears were a bad design decision was that in episode 1 the Gundam is grappled into submission by the bunny ears. Nope. Once again you're ignoring what happened onscreen. Bell grabbed the G-Self but the reason she didn't just break free is because the G-Self started to malfunction. ("What's the mater G-Self, that isn't the right response?!") Then she just accelerated until he was forced to let go. "Grappled into submission" is in fact 100% inaccurate and you making poo poo up. She didn't lose. She was handily winning the fight while holding back until the G-Self malfunctioned. This has been stated multiple times and you ignore it each time. Literally the only reason she lost the fight is because the G-Self didn't want to kill the protagonist because of his plot device.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:15
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Broken Loose posted:I mean that's fine, that's totally fair, because she did show up in a top secret prototype leading a squadron of dudes. It just makes her reaction to losing more unacceptable. Why is it unacceptable? She (and her self-named super suit) were captured by the enemy because her suit malfunctioned and according to later dialogue she was going to be executed. She was upset in private, calmed down, and faced her captors calmly without fear. That is frankly one of the more "real person" anyone in the show did.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:19
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MrLonghair posted:My take on all the stuff that makes you raise an eyebrow or utter I don't really think they cut filler precisely. If anything I'd say the opposite. They focused on filler and casual worldbuilding but de-emphasized things which would traditionally be called important which lead to a pace which is both breakneck and oddly meandering. That may be what Tomino means by it not being for Gundam fans since he seems actively uninterested in approaching the story that way. (In both good ways and bad.) Broken Loose posted:She's effectively an enemy commander piloting an ace suit. The concept that a commander would break down into tears because she was taken prisoner comes off as very "women, right? Here is the most popular Gundam protagonist in the last few decades. He cries every other episode.  Here is his rival, the ace pilot who is commander of his own unit.  You can argue all you want that the show is bad but "only women break down and cry" isn't something even casual Gundam fans would agree with. Edit: Look at this womanly person, crying over the death of a soldier. I mean he's a commander and his ace pilot is right next to him and both of them are crying after one of their allies dies in battle. How loving unbelievable is that. 
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Oct 3, 2014 14:25
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is that this was to move things forward rapidly and cut filler, at the cost of raised eyebrows and 
" as does the concept that she would crumple to the floor in tearful agony at another soldier's death in battle.
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Broken Loose posted:Okay, that's perfectly fine, but Jesus Yamato is a loving laughingstock on these forums and almost the prototypical example of how not to make a character. If you're going to compare Aida to Kira Yamato, you're doing so at the risk of saying, "This character ruins entire series." Also, Kira did the most of his crying while he was still completely new to piloting but Aida's supposed to be a commander in an ace suit. Again, pictured: Commander of a ship (and a trained officer, if one put in bad situations) and an ace pilot crying over the death of an enlisted soldier. Broken Loose posted:edit: Bright crying when Matilda died is great for comparing to episode 2, but not episode 1. So? You've yet to actually justify why episode 1 is bad unless nobody is allowed to express any emotion at all.
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Oct 3, 2014 14:34
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Broken Loose posted:Yeah, I totally remember Bright breaking into hysterics because he lost a fight. Bright, pictured there, is hysterics. He is slumped on the ground and crying. Aida has tears in her eyes for like 10 seconds before she wiped them away and was promptly fine. I don't think you know what the word "hysterics" means. It does not mean "you can calm yourself down in an instant."
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Oct 3, 2014 14:37
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Broken Loose posted:I don't know what's funnier: How I was proven wrong about the camera issue (because Bell's psychic), or how everybody else was proven wrong that the bunny ears were still a bad idea (because that's how the G-Self got nabbed). I'm going to try this one last time before I just give up, because you've ignored it every single time: The G-Self did not get 'nabbed' by its ear. Bell grabbed it and the machine malfunctioned and performed a different action than Aida told it to (likely because she was going to shiv Bell or use the head vulcans to blow him away.) Afterwards she accelerated so hard he let go. At no point did the ear have any impact at all on what happened except being the thing that got grabbed, which could as easily have been the head itself. It contributed literally nothing to her capture or anything more that a moment's mild inconvenience. If the G-Self had not malfunctioned it would not even have been that.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:08
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Broken Loose posted:The G-Self malfunctioned after Bell had been hanging onto the ear for half a minute, while it was hilariously trying to punch the grunt off. Dude, the trying-to-punch-it-off was the malfuction. Aida literally says "that's the wrong action" right afterwards.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:11
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I'm hoping Isn't NotChar just Luin?
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Oct 3, 2014 15:27
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Not Char is completely calm and serious, just to make the end credits all the more amazing 
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WickedHate posted:You realize this is not a historical log of things that actually happened? People consciously assembled these events and the situations to make these characters act this way. So your argument is that women should never cry in fiction with (x time frame) of a previous time they cried or it is misogynistic no matter the context. Like, seriously, I'm hyper-sensitive to this stuff (and I think Monday is kind of legitimately awful so far) but it is not inherently 'feminine weakness' for a character to cry over the death of someone important to them and the argument of "well, it is a constructed show" doesn't change the fact that this isn't an uncommon thing for both male and female characters. If she continues to perform badly and be crappy and have no agency I'll be right onboard with the complaints but leaping from 0 to "hates women" is a bit much. I'm also not saying the show is flawless. (The cheerleader squad is weird, Monday is pretty bad so far, and the rear end-shooting scene was eyerolling) but still. Astro Nut posted:I think you could still set things up a bit better though. Like the Gundamjack at the start of the first episode - cutting into that where they did, from the opening, doesn't really transition well. I mean, you don't have to show the exact start of it, but a nice establishing shot would have done more to ease viewers in. The directing feels really disjointed, even for Tomino. I didn't feel remotely the same way after Gainer or Turn-A as I did after G-Reco. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 18:48
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WickedHate posted:I'm just saying, crying three episodes in a row, plus the other stuff, is pretty suspect. Perhaps she is crying next episode for the same reason she is crying this episode?
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Oct 3, 2014 18:59
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Koopa Kid posted:I don't want to get dragged into the semantics but given that almost all the women we're introduced to with any agency so far either fail at their job and are rescued/protected by a man or are literal cheerleaders I don't think it's unreasonable to say this show has issues with women so far. Nobody is saying it doesn't. It is the fact that the argument is focused around "crying is bad" which is what makes it kinda worthless.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:02
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WickedHate posted:That's not what the "this show is sexist so far" argument is focused around, it's one of multiple complaints and people just keep getting hung up on that one. Man, I was making the arguments about the crappiness of the plot being "guy steals a girl's robot" since it was announced. The only reason I'm arguing at all is because the exaggeration became "Aida is a completely inept pilot who broke down at the wheel and got captured and constantly cries" which isn't what happened in the show at all
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Oct 3, 2014 19:32
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everythingWasBees posted:It's given us a lot more to work with than Turn A did it in first few episodes, at the very least. Turn-A made the concept and motivations very clear in the first two episodes. I can't agree it gave you less to chew on.
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Oct 3, 2014 19:56
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everythingWasBees posted:Turn-A was incredibly sparse on exposition the first few episodes as well. The character motivations were clearer, yeah, but that was it. I think in terms of plot exposition, though, this show has been a lot clearer. I don't really agree. Within the first episode of Turn-A you knew Loran was a moonrace who secretly came down to Earth and wanted all his people to come with him. The second episode sets the stakes and basic conflict very clearly. G-Reco sort of waves at Aida's motivation (before intentionally hiding the general response to it) and otherwise has lots of minor worldbuilding but not a lot of focus. It's probable this stuff will become clear but it is weird how it is presented. Not just because it is obscured but because it is unnecessarily obscured (or so it feels, there may be a reason later on.) I don't tend to give Tomino automatic benefit of the doubt. He is a good director but not a flawless one and he may have made Gundam/Zambot/ect but he also made Brain Powered. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 20:06
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Eiba posted:This I can agree with. It's frustrating that all the energy in the discussion has been going towards "crying is bad" because that is one of the only things that isn't an issue here. Monday is just like... even if she's supposed to be a weird Tomino parody of a moeblob, she's still basically one. Maybe he'll do something more with her but it's an awful awful start.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:38
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muike posted:I kinda of feel like maybe she is since she's literally brain damaged to be that way but I don't want to think about it too hard because I know there is a deep dark hole that I will fall down I'd give it the benefit of the doubt but Puru exists.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:44
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Sharkopath posted:Tomino is giving me a cut of the bluray sales for all the guerilla marketing I do. It was in an article but it was a really long time ago. Like back during the very very initial mention of it, and the series describe then was pretty different. (It had a female protagonist and was about her and her sister.) WickedHate posted:It'd be a lot better if Aida was the protagonist in the first place, honestly. There are scant few Gundam series that wouldn't be better if one of the female leads wasn't the main character.
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Oct 3, 2014 23:41
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Raku posted:Tomino has been great with women in his last two shows (where he had tons of creative control). In fact you could argue that women are the most important characters in Turn A, his magnum opus. So I don't know why you'd be so quick to start complaining when there's such a small sample size thus far. Dianna wasn't even introduced at this point in Turn A. The two female characters introduced are, without question, going to be the most important in the show unless something incredibly unexpected happens. They are the primary female love interest who is given second billing and the Mysterious Girl who is deeply connected with the protagonist robot. The three of them are also the only ones who can pilot the protagonist robot.
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Oct 4, 2014 03:02
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Gyra_Solune posted:...see what really caught me off guard was the first episode all 'alright we're going into SPACE buckle up everyone' and normally in Gundam that means it's space arc time but then next episode they're back on Earth. Where was the elevator going? Why were they on it exactly? I got kinda confused. They're going up to train and do repairs on the cable. It... it doesn't really explain why the cheerleaders are there beyond 'the got snuck onboard somehow or something?"
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Oct 4, 2014 20:06
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Man, I do not have much hope of that being handled particularly well. Hopefully it is just a case of "this character exists" and not "this character exists and is played for creepy comedy because haha gay/transphobia" like 90% of that archetype in anime.
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Oct 5, 2014 21:34
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muike posted:Until something is said otherwise, i'm going to assume that was drama particles. and i wouldn't be surprised if tomino doesn't do anything else with psycoframe stuff after how overboard unicorn went with it. We already know that the Rayhunter Code stuff somehow allows pilots to have special customized super-abilities so that's pretty unlikely. We even see Bell use it in this episode with the glowing aura. It might not be Psychoframe but it's not gonna be completely straight.
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Oct 7, 2014 02:48
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Silentman0 posted:You'd be surprised how much the Newtypes pushed technology development. Once they gently caress off into space, what else are you left with? Haros.
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Oct 9, 2014 05:51
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Episode 3 was pretty fun but it's really just kind of bizarre how everyone in the world seems functionally incapable of giving more than half a poo poo about anything no matter what. It's kind of the opposite of what I expect from a Tomino show. It's like everyone in the show is genetically incapable of being more than mildly perturbed at any situation.
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Oct 10, 2014 05:36
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The entire point of Klim Nick is that he keeps calling himself a genius but isn't. He even makes fun of it himself when he berates himself for using the vulcans against a ranged enemy. He is not a Serious Character.
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Oct 10, 2014 05:39
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John Carstairs posted:But if he keeps this up, he may just be the Best Character. I have to say he's probably my favorite so far. He's goofy but he's also like the most... coherent character so far in a way.
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Oct 10, 2014 05:43
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Potsticker posted:Yeah, he's pretty hilarious. I didn't expect him to live out the episode, though. Maybe he'll get trashed next week? Nah, I bet he survives for a while. He's got wacky secondary dude written all over him.
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Oct 10, 2014 05:51
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Srice posted:Eh, it's really disingenuous to say that people only like it because of Tomino hype. Hell, that's basically a backhanded insult to people that do enjoy it. Eh. I think it's fair to say that people are giving it a pass on a lot of things because Tomino. I mean even a lot of criticisms of the way the characters act or the pacing have been met with "well, what did you expect from a Tomino show?" I mean I'm enjoying it but I don't really buy that it would be a worse show if some things were changed and I do think the writing has some serious flaws. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 06:45
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Colon Semicolon posted:If I never saw the word Misogyny ever again in my life I would be the happiest person on the whole planet. I'm sort of worried that Tomino's plan when given 25 episodes instead of 50 is to try to fit 50 episodes worth of content into 25 and editors be damned. Which, and I'm saying this as someone who finds it his favorite non-Gundam Tomino show, Overman King Gainer suffered from too, if not as heavily as G-Reco so far.
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Oct 10, 2014 13:52
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Kanos posted:King Gainer didn't actually bother having anything but a rough skeleton of a plotline(railroad bad, let's go to Yapan) until like the last five episodes where the Overdevil popped out of nowhere. G-Reco seems like it actually has a more structured plot in mind, it's just not really explaining it directly to anyone yet. I think the way I'd describe this show is that instead of telling the viewer a story it's basically giving the viewer a window into the events that are happening and saying "Figure it out with what I'm giving you or get stuffed". Gainer had a plot. The Overdevil stuff was introduced fairly early on, just thinly explained. You're not wrong that is how the show is though, but I'm not sure it's a good thing. It really depends on how it pans out. I find it very odd for a show that Tomino is billing as a kid's show, but admittedly that entire line has been pretty thin to begin with.
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Oct 10, 2014 16:48
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Srice posted:They straight up say that the reason the Capital rations energy is to keep them in check. The implication being that if they get too much power then they could be able to rise up destroy the Capital. We don't know if that's what they'd do with more energy, but it's something that they're concerned about. Yeah, this is accurate. I think the problem is more that nobody responds to this stuff in the way you'd expect. The core of a political drama (complete with foreign-funded 'pirates') is there, it is just that even with threats of execution and so-on, Aida is literally the only person to seem to hold any strong feelings at all. We're really used to using character responses to judge the intensity and severity of problems and that just doesn't exist here. It's a marked departure even from Turn-A or Gainer where people responded like *gently caress* to stuff.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:33
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Wait, really? What'd they have to do, sacrifice an intern on Tomino's desk to appease his hatred of plastic kits? I assume Tomino just went "yes, whatever, leave me alone" and went back to shaking his fist at a nearby cloud.
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Oct 11, 2014 03:13
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Raku posted:The Monday bitching is ridiculous. This character has something obviously wrong with her! This is an insult to all women! I don't think she's an insult to all women but she is a pretty fuckin' awful character so far.
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Oct 11, 2014 16:49
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