|
 It's a 1984 300zx. They haven't gotten much love over the years but lately they've started to pick up drift tax. I have had three z31s so far, this is the only one I've gotten real serious with. I really want to keep the car 'period correct' so I'm not changing the wheels or seriously modifying the stance. This means I've already got some traction issues at this power level. Couple shots to show how clean this thing is:  awww yeah the full knight rider experience. Yeah, it's an automatic. I can't drive stick in daily traffic for more than 10 or 15 minutes because of a hosed-up left knee.  Rear seats suitable for passengers with no legs. Actually, one of the down sides to z31s overall is that I'm only about five-ten and under 200, and the car fits me perfectly. Guys who track their z31s usually have to remove the T-tops to wear a helmet.  If you have ever owned a z31 you're looking at the above picture and wondering how it's possible. Aaaand a few under the hood.    There's a lot more space here than in a stock z31, obviously. This is strictly a May 1 - Nov 1 car and I live in Eastern Ontario, so I've pulled all the A/C and heat. I have nothing against power steering in theory, but the z31's stock p/s is basically just a really floaty method of rustproofing the engine bay. It's eminently manageable with a manual rack and a lot more fun. 1984 is old enough so that I don't have to pass emissions, so all that's gone, and the engine-driven fan and its bigass shroud are gone in favour of an efan setup. With all this stuff out, plus the stock driver's side manifold and super-heavy downpipe swapped in favour of the custom exhaust, the car's lost 210 pounds overall and moved the battery weight to the rear passenger side. In theory z31 NA to turbos are pretty easy because you can use all stock parts, but it's not really feasible without pulling the motor as you need to replace the front crossmember. Then you end up with the 80s journal bearing, internally-wastegated turbo with a weird 7-bolt exhaust flange in the same crappy stock location. If you want to go to a modern ball bearing turbo the coolant lines are pretty bad, you need to rebuild your downpipe, and the oil drain geometry is *really* bad. Between this and getting a deal on a custom manifold I decided to relocate the turbo up to the old A/C location. Another thought behind this was that swapping out to a bigger exhaust housing or a bigger turbo overall is trivial now. This way I could also do a really well-placed oil drain - I just punched and tapped it pretty much straight down from the turbo. List of mods: Gone: A/C Cruise Heat P/S EGR All idle controls All non-block coolant lines Wiper fluid reservoir (bad rust trap) Power: Garrett GT2860RS turbo with .48 T3 hotside OEM Nissan z31 turbo injectors Tial F38 wastegate @.6 bar '87 z31 Turbo ECU Thermal ceramic coated turbo relocation manifold Custom oil drain for relocated turbo Custom silicone intake 60mm throttle body/ported intake mani Separate coolant loop for turbo (temporary*) FF Dynamics twin electric fans Champion 3-row aluminum rad ASCO intake manifold spacer 2.5" exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, no cat, custom thermal ceramic coated down pipe FPR relocated for 30 HP (actually just because it puts any potential leaks in a safer/more accessible place and is a placeholder in the event I upgrade.) Manual boost control (not pictured) Steering/Suspension: Manual steering rack 89 Turbo sway bars Response Type bumpsteer spacers Stance adjustable tension rods Poly bushings through whole car Eibach springs Bilstein dampers Cusco front strut tower bar (not shown in pics, I had it out while the exhaust was dumping into the engine bay) Random: Battery relocated to rear passenger side (spare tire well) Alternator flipped to passenger side (OEM location for stock turbo cars), custom alt subharness As you can probably guess from looking at the power mod list and the intake layout the main goal under the hood was fast throttle and turbo response. The car's well into boost by 2100RPM and in full flight by 3000. It's considerably different than a stock turbo 300zx. The torque is hilarious - WOT spins the tires at launch, second, and sometimes third and it gets to supralegal speeds in an amount of time that no 80s car that isn't from Italy or doesn't say "AMG" on it should be capable of. It feels like the car is running out of breath around 4700RPM, which makes sense given the teeny hotside but is better than I was expecting. Judging from the exhaust I have plenty of fuel left for more boost, but other people have reported that you can't push the 9:1 N/A engine past 8 PSI without intercooling. Intercooling z31s is usually a giant plumbing clusterfuck, and I'd probably need to run 12-13 PSI to beat the pressure drop and get a noticeable improvement over just running at the edge of safe non-IC boost. I have spaceshuttled a few things - the turbo mani, crossover, and downpipe back to mid-car are ceramic coated (the downpipe's not in the pics), and I have a custom engine bay and EFI harness almost finished because I've gotten rid of over half of the endpoints for the original harness. Everything except the exhaust and the rear subframe bushings was done by me in my driveway. Next season I am going to replace the harness as discussed, put in a wideband, fix up the turbo coolant system, get some slightly better speakers in it, and possibly start screwing around with the Nistune RTT system which puts an EPROM on the stock ECU and provides software for tuning it. I have another 87 ECU that I could get socketed, so I could easily flip back and forth between "dev" and "prod" by just swapping ECUs. I like the idea of Megasquirt, but I want to be able to actually drive the drat car instead of spending months loving around with a half-driveable tune. As far as I know the only people with fully running MS tunes on z31s are a few NA Chumpcar racers. * You may look at this and wonder 'how does this work', but I'm the coolant whisperer. The eventual solution is running them off the back of the lower intake manifold, but it requires custom fittings and I ran out of time to finish them this season.
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2014 03:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 20:51 |
|
|
Saw the thread title, expected a  DeLorean thread, was severely disappointed. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2014 04:01
|
|
|
Fucknag posted:Saw the thread title, expected a Expected RUN DMC vanity plates. Still a sweet example though. What's your endgame? DrPain fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Oct 14, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2014 04:03
|
|
|
There's a successful z31 team in the 24 hours of lemons that's done up to look like a Delorean... It might be one of the ones he was referring to running megasquirt? I don't know if they run chumpcar too or not. Anyway, cool car and nice build!
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2014 04:06
|
|
|
The OCD part of me wants to see it with a Maxima intake so the throttle body is at the front with a really short pipe to the turbo. (This would be a total waste of time and probably make access worse but would look all nice and tidy)
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
Bibendum posted:The OCD part of me wants to see it with a Maxima intake so the throttle body is at the front with a really short pipe to the turbo. Fellow OCD here. I even *bought* a max intake for this build. What I discovered is that the reason to use it is that it simplifies IC piping (but not the hardest part, which is getting from the engine bay to the IC) especially if you have the stock turbo location; then it lets you keep A/C if you want. I got as far as test fitting and realized it's not worth it outside of that specific scenario. The max intake barely clears the hood if you put it straight on to the LIM, doesn't work with the plenum spacer (hood clearance) or the strut tower brace, you need a longer throttle cable (small thing, but still), and it didn't work with my plan of using the increased clearance from the spacer to run the fuel rails really high and give better access to the injectors. Also, because of where the inlet of the max intake is, if you are running the top-mounted turbo you'd really have to go blow-through because you can't go to the left from the turbo intake anymore. In a pull-through setup the stock z31 MAF needs to be at least 15" or so from the turbo or it stalls rich when you come off the gas (ask me how I know this.) I have the $$$ that if I want a different plenum I'd be better off having someone build me a custom one, and tbh if I did that I'd probably put the intake over on the passenger side. tl;dr I tried the max intake and the problems solved versus problems introduced ratio was not good. who is spain posted:There's a successful z31 team in the 24 hours of lemons that's done up to look like a Delorean... thanks! Could you even fit MS into a Lemons build? I am pretty sure those guys don't run it. Apparently they win on good conservative driving and the fact that if properly burped the NA z31 is almost impossible to overheat and the motor and drivetrain is generally pretty bombproof (!). DrPain posted:Expected RUN DMC vanity plates. Still a sweet example though. The car's just supposed to be a fun DD. I want to try to get Nistune working as that seems like a better idea for getting more low to midrange giggles than just shoving an IC and a fuel pump in there and turning up the boost - that'll get me a top end I'll never use. Also, if I go much past 250hp I'll need to figure out whether I want to get the 4n71 built or find out if you can stick a z32 tt auto on it. I have a .63 hotside for the turbo as well if I find the .48 is just too small, but I'd also rather stick with the 2.5" exhaust and if I go much bigger that'll become the choke point.
|
|
#
?
Oct 14, 2014 13:30
|
|
|
Awesome car, I dig the 80s aesthetic so those stock wheels are perfect. It looks clean as hell too. My only question is what's the climate like where you live because quote:A/C all being gone does not equal DD to me. V  V I'm old and soft though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 03:10
|
|
|
This was my Z31 experience: Yours looks much better.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 03:16
|
|
|
Seat Safety Switch posted:This was my Z31 experience: It always takes me a few seconds to realize what is really going on in this picture. It's like, yeah that's a pretty nasty looking interior but it's probably just a work in pro-OH SWEET TAP-DANCING CHRIST!
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 03:48
|
|
|
Previa_fun posted:Awesome car, I dig the 80s aesthetic so those stock wheels are perfect. It looks clean as hell too. Thanks! Yeah, it's funny. You can update the 87-89 ones just fine, and the 84-85 turbos with the body kit you can at least put a more flush and lower stance on them. But if you have an NA 84-85, it looks best bone stock, with the the heavy trim and everything it has a specific look and nothing works except the stock wheels and stance with the little bit of rake. If anything you'd want to go "older," like louvers and iron crosses from a 280. I'm in eastern Ontario. A hot day in the summer here is like 85 degrees so it's T-top weather, not A/C, and went all last year from May to October without turning the heat on once so I said screw that too. Plus most of my driving is urban/suburban or backroad hoonery so I'd never use cruise even if it wasn't a horrible vacuum-operated monstrosity. Seat Safety Switch posted:This was my Z31 experience: Holy sweet mother of poo poo. I thought that was shiny soundproofing backing or something and then  edit: drastically misunderstood what was going on in that pic jesus christ. 1st Edition ADandD fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Oct 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 03:48
|
|
|
1st Edition ADandD posted:I see no daylight through those floor pans, you are way ahead of the game Stare at that picture a little longer...
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 03:50
|
|
|
1st Edition ADandD posted:Holy sweet mother of poo poo. I thought that was shiny soundproofing backing or something and then It drove and passed inspection in Alberta. Take off the l from the url for the full size experience.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:06
|
|
|
Seat Safety Switch posted:It drove and passed inspection in Alberta. Take off the l from the url for the full size experience. If that had the digital dash I'd wonder if that was my first '85 that I dumped for $400 in Calgary in 1998 after pulling the motor. It was pretty close to that bad in different spots, the rockers were literally just paint.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
Nope. It came from out East but it had a needle dash.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 04:41
|
|
|
1st Edition ADandD posted:
If you aren't a jerk and understand the concept of jokes you can pretty much do whatever you want in Lemons. It also helps if you show up in something other than a BMW, Miata or Camaro/Firebird. Also interesting, a Lemons racer is developing his own open source rival to MS: http://autoweek.com/article/products/rusefi-open-source-homebuilt-fuel-injection-set-rival-megasquirt Now back to your thread!
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 05:01
|
|
|
Came for Delorean and second coming of Zordon. Left sad and alone with tears in my eyes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 06:11
|
|
|
Hey Z buddy! Mine's a Z32, though, and my turbos are about the size of your single. I'm making 650ish whp; what's that thing make with those tragic heads? Nice car, anyway ps paging obso Method Loser fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Oct 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 06:48
|
|
|
Method Loser posted:what's that thing make with those tragic heads? Noise. It makes noise. After working on both this body, and a TT Z32, I'd take one of these ANYDAY. Still cool to see one of these with a slushomatic still alive.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 06:50
|
|
|
cursedshitbox posted:After working on both this body, and a TT Z32, I'd take one of these ANYDAY. oh I know, my Z was a whorefuck and a half, but now I've got everything ~done~. Turbos, built bottom end, ICs, etc etc, so my pain is over. Just a rollcage, new seats, and maybe a closer ratio tranny and I'm completely, utterly done, unless I want nitrous.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 06:54
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 07:17
|
|
|
Romeo Reborn posted:You don't even wanna know what happens when this bad boy hits 88mph 88? that thing can't get past 6.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 07:33
|
|
|
Method Loser posted:Hey Z buddy! Mine's a Z32, though, and my turbos are about the size of your single. I'm making 650ish whp; what's that thing make with those tragic heads? Nice car, anyway I was going to say something along the lines of "it makes the sound of a running automobile, unlike most z32 projects", but I think I got beaten :iamafag: Yeah, I love z32s in theory and built ones are fantastic but the OEM spaceshuttle level is so high. You must be an extraordinarily patient and persistent/broke and insane man. Is there a thread for it anywhere/pics? I totally do not mind converting this into a z-car general thread, btw. If I get Nistune working on another ECU I might try to find a dyno locally instead of just butt tuning. People keep saying that the stock NA2T should get you ~240 but I think that's optimistic. I doubt I am over 230rwhp at the top end because slushbox, but my last stock turbo years ago was running 10PSI with a z32 fuel pump and this car has a hell of a lot more low and midrange (it's also in way better shape, that motor was beat and this one was perky even as an NA) I think it could actually do even more in there but the stock tune is being stingy because it doesn't expect the turbo to come in that early (and has no way of knowing otherwise...) repeat, I do not mind making this a z-car general if there's other people with builds... it would be awesome if obso showed up because I posted a couple years ago about using a relocation pipe because I couldn't find a clean crossmember. I kinda took it a step beyond that. Rhyno posted:Came for Delorean and second coming of Zordon.  edit: but seriously and with no malice z31s mostly rusted out here ages ago and no one knows what they are. If I had  for every time I have been asked if this was "the car from Back to the Future" I could seriously buy a really nice Aeromotive FPR.
1st Edition ADandD fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Oct 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 11:32
|
|
|
who is spain posted:If you aren't a jerk and understand the concept of jokes you can pretty much do whatever you want in Lemons. It also helps if you show up in something other than a BMW, Miata or Camaro/Firebird. Not to slag an obviously very hard-working dude but that sounds like a pretty awful idea (and this from a guy who has been on linux for 15 years.) The whole issue with Megasquirt is that almost all MS builds I have ever seen break the cardinal rule of tuning, which is that you only tune a car that already runs. An open-source alternative with a smaller user base is going to be even worse. Almost all MS stuff I have seen is people have cobbled together these systems that won't run *without* a custom efi control solution. The ROI on using MS as opposed to hacking whatever your powertrain was originally supposed to use, at least until you know you have a running vehicle, always seems bad to me. There's, I think, about a half dozen guys on the major z31 board with MS builds and none of them has a driveable car, as compared to Nistune where when people have problems it's because they have non-Nistune-related mechanical/electrical issues. But I'm also not very ambitious...
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 12:24
|
|
|
1st Edition ADandD posted:Not to slag an obviously very hard-working dude but that sounds like a pretty awful idea (and this from a guy who has been on linux for 15 years.) The whole issue with Megasquirt is that almost all MS builds I have ever seen break the cardinal rule of tuning, which is that you only tune a car that already runs. An open-source alternative with a smaller user base is going to be even worse. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 14:00
|
|
|
cursedshitbox posted:Noise. It makes noise. I think with the torque I am getting my slushbox is on a suicide watch, I am looking for a good place to slap a cooler in. There's a place here that does really serious automatic performance builds and there's a relatively straightforward set of mods to get the 4n71 to hold 350-400, so that might end up happening. Oh, wait, speaking of noise, my wife has a flypast without the downpipe on her phone. It's awesome. I'll try to get it up somewhere. Though seriously my favourite z31 noise is this guy with the 210hp NA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_AS6kVUTK0 That is the happiest-sounding car ever, it's like it's loving thrilled to be out there.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 14:13
|
|
|
1st Edition ADandD posted:Almost all MS stuff I have seen is people have cobbled together these systems that won't run *without* a custom efi control solution. The ROI on using MS as opposed to hacking whatever your powertrain was originally supposed to use, at least until you know you have a running vehicle, always seems bad to me. There's, I think, about a half dozen guys on the major z31 board with MS builds and none of them has a driveable car, as compared to Nistune where when people have problems it's because they have non-Nistune-related mechanical/electrical issues. But I'm also not very ambitious... I think this says more about z31 owners than anything else. Take a look at older Z cars, and you'll find MS is the ecu of choice for most builds that have a reasonable budgets. Like anything else, you get out of it what you put in it. Of course your wiring is going to look like poo poo if "you just want to get it running", especially compared to the amount of R&D the factory put in. Too bad you're so far away, I've got 2 MS cars, and in town we've got about 10 running and driving with a variety of makes and models (4 Zs!).  Fully wired up MS2-E with wasted spark. This car will lay 50ft of rubber down from a 25mph roll, in a 2.3l tractor engine that flows about as good as a Nissan L series. Butt tuning with no wideband? When you want to leave the little leagues, let me know and I can help point you in the tight direction.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 18:33
|
|
|
1st Edition ADandD posted:I think with the torque I am getting my slushbox is on a suicide watch, I am looking for a good place to slap a cooler in. There's a place here that does really serious automatic performance builds and there's a relatively straightforward set of mods to get the 4n71 to hold 350-400, so that might end up happening. Trouble with trans coolers is that they don't prevent fluid breakdown, just cool it down so it's at the right viscosity to run the various actuators. If it's getting so hot in the torque converter that it's burning, a cooler won't do any good since it's still that hot from the converter all the way to the cooler. You can make it work if you flush the fluid more often, but it's really a band-aid until the transmission's properly built with an appropriate converter. Any reason you can't do a manual swap? Supposedly it's pretty easy on the 240s, but obviously the Z is a different car so I don't know if it's the same deal.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 19:10
|
|
|
Fucknag posted:Trouble with trans coolers is that they don't prevent fluid breakdown, just cool it down so it's at the right viscosity to run the various actuators. If it's getting so hot in the torque converter that it's burning, a cooler won't do any good since it's still that hot from the converter all the way to the cooler. You can make it work if you flush the fluid more often, but it's really a band-aid until the transmission's properly built with an appropriate converter. It's theoretically not bad in places where you have access to junkyard Zs, which isn't here. The main thing is that I have a left knee full of metal and I really can't drive stick in traffic for more than a few minutes or really manage a clutch well without a lot of loving owww. Appreciate the advice. Like I said the plan is that if the tranny seems to be having issues there's a power-handling rebuild for it, and I also am willing to bet that the eminently available z32 auto is probably very close to bolt-on (the manual is) and the relative price of that would probably be competitive. mafoose posted:I think this says more about z31 owners than anything else. Me likey and I may take you up on that. I seriously got the downpipe fabbed up and installed the day before the car went away for the winter, so I just have a bung plug there while I find out which one plays best with Nistune. I left the stock O2 off because it realistically doesn't do poo poo. I'm still more interested in Nistune because I can literally just swap ECUs between "tuning" and "working" and have a driveable car with tuning it as a project - pretty sure that MS doesn't support the OEM VG30 CAS or MAF. Fair comment on the z31 community. If I posted this car on z31p I'd get ripped by half the people there (the owners of unfinished space shuttles) for actually spending money on anything less than a 500rwhp space shuttle and the other half would just wonder if I could tell them why the rear end clunks.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 20:51 |
|
|
1st Edition ADandD posted:pretty sure that MS doesn't support the OEM VG30 CAS or MAF. It might support the CAS with the correct understanding of its signalling. For the MAF, no point.
|
|
#
?
Oct 16, 2014 00:41
|
|
