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curious lump
Sep 13, 2014

by zen death robot
at first i thought effectronica was ironically bad and now im not really sure anymore but it doesn't actually matter because they're just criminally boring and trite eitherway.

mods please gas.

e: :69snypa:

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communism bitch
Apr 24, 2009

curious lump posted:

at first i thought effectronica was ironically bad and now im not really sure anymore but it doesn't actually matter because they're just criminally boring and trite eitherway.

mods please gas.

e: :69snypa:

ill gas u fucker

curious lump
Sep 13, 2014

by zen death robot
this isn't the hitler thread thanks

Miltank
Dec 27, 2009

by XyloJW

curious lump posted:

at first i thought effectronica was ironically bad and now im not really sure anymore but it doesn't actually matter because they're just criminally boring and trite eitherway.

mods please gas.

e: :69snypa:

i will make you breath my fart gas

communism bitch
Apr 24, 2009
hitler didn't like "own" nerve gas. even if he did communism abolishes private property lol

mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

This displeases Dev- ..van. Shut up.
Actually, the only hope for humanity is George Takei. Have you seen his Facebook? The win to fail ratio is insane!

Mc Do Well
Aug 2, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

Applewhite posted:

Considering human greed is an impulse that can never be eliminated, it seems more realistic to go with the system that is actually intended to channel the human greed impulse to productive ends (capitalism) rather than the one that pretends it doesn't exist and also breaks irreparably the first time anyone is even slightly greedy (communism).

Capitalism does not intentionally do anything. It is not a philosophy or a coherent system of organization, it is just people who have money/power declaring this to be the best of all possible worlds.


mysterious frankie posted:

Actually, the only hope for humanity is George Takei. Have you seen his Facebook? The win to fail ratio is insane!

He gave the Mayday PAC a ton of new 'Marx' :ussr:

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost

McDowell posted:

Capitalism does not intentionally do anything. It is not a philosophy or a coherent system of organization, it is just people who have money/power declaring this to be the best of all possible worlds.

Good enough for me.

communism bitch
Apr 24, 2009

Applewhite posted:

Good enough for me.
-a lumpenprole

Deep Thought
Mar 7, 2005

Applewhite posted:

Dude I used to be way into communism back in the day. All reading Marx and such. I even had one of those chinese hats and an authentic Little Red Book from China. Then I actually looked at how the "ideals" of communism have only ever been used by extremely evil men to scam millions of people. Saying "Communism is a good idea in theory" is very much akin to how "homeopathic medicine is a good idea in theory."
Magic water that makes you healthy and surgery performed quickly and painlessly by crystals? Sounds awesome. Great idea. Admirable dream. In reality though anyone trying to sell you crytsal surgery is either a chump themselves or deliberately malicious. You will end up with no money and be lucky to survive whatever disease you left untreated.

So you were an embarrassingly superficial marxo-teen, you've always looked at socialism as if it were a heaven-on-earth ideal, and disillusionment has given you a great insight that no self-confessed communist could possess, because you went through a phase as a teenager. Thanks for your opinions.

DoctorStrangelove
Jun 7, 2012

IT WOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT MEIN FUHRER!

I swear communism will work this time guys!

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost

Deep Thought posted:

So you were an embarrassingly superficial marxo-teen, you've always looked at socialism as if it were a heaven-on-earth ideal, and disillusionment has given you a great insight that no self-confessed communist could possess, all because you've been through a teenage fad. Thanks for your opinions.

Yeah p. much, though I will point out that "responsible for millions upon millions of deaths and also widespread poverty even for hardworking and intelligent citizens" is a little bit beyond "falling short of adolescent expectations."
This isn't finding out your favorite baseball star was on steroids, this is finding out he was a mass murderer on steroids and also all other drugs and lied about being a baseball star.

Miltank
Dec 27, 2009

by XyloJW
What if communism was about finding a system of fairly controlling the common resources that we share as humans?

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
what i don't get is how commies in these threads always talk about how you can't bring up the USSR and a bunch of other failed communist states, but then on a dime they also praise those states for their amazing achievements until the world ran in the opposite direction as fast as it could.

i mean if you're proposing something new then that's cool and i'm interested. but what i actually hear is a let's go with a giant rotting leftist state again. okay that'll be disastrous. that's self-deluded.

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008
if the free market desires the exploitation of poors, then the exploitation of poors is inherently moral.

Miltank
Dec 27, 2009

by XyloJW

Omi-Polari posted:

what i don't get is how commies in these threads always talk about how you can't bring up the USSR and a bunch of other failed communist states, but then on a dime they also praise those states for their amazing achievements until the world ran in the opposite direction as fast as it could.

i mean if you're proposing something new then that's cool and i'm interested. but what i actually hear is a let's go with a giant rotting leftist state again. okay that'll be disastrous. that's self-deluded.

People bring up the successes of the USSR because it highlights that economies alternative to free market capitalism can be extremely powerful. I agree with you about the second part though, leninism should die.

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008
furthermore, if people are too weak-willed to rise in society by their own power, then their exploitation and eventual death is not only moral, but necessary to maintain the quality of humanity

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost

Freak Futanari posted:

furthermore, if people are too weak-willed to rise in society by their own power, then their exploitation and eventual death is not only moral, but necessary to maintain the quality of humanity

This but unironically.

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Omi-Polari posted:

what i don't get is how commies in these threads always talk about how you can't bring up the USSR and a bunch of other failed communist states, but then on a dime they also praise those states for their amazing achievements until the world ran in the opposite direction as fast as it could.

i mean if you're proposing something new then that's cool and i'm interested. but what i actually hear is a let's go with a giant rotting leftist state again. okay that'll be disastrous. that's self-deluded.

the economic successes of the soviet union which were pretty amazing for several decades prove that central planning can function as an alternative to capitalism. that doesnt mean the soviet union didnt suck in a multitude of other ways

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008

Applewhite posted:

This but unironically.

please dont imply that i was being ironic.

Mc Do Well
Aug 2, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

the economic successes of the soviet union which were pretty amazing for several decades prove that central planning can function as an alternative to capitalism. that doesnt mean the soviet union didnt suck in a multitude of other ways

Someone needs to retry Gosplan with modern Information Technology.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost

Freak Futanari posted:

please dont imply that i was being ironic.

I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Also, you're cool and we should be friends.

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib

Omi-Polari posted:

what i don't get is how commies in these threads always talk about how you can't bring up the USSR and a bunch of other failed communist states, but then on a dime they also praise those states for their amazing achievements until the world ran in the opposite direction as fast as it could.

i mean if you're proposing something new then that's cool and i'm interested. but what i actually hear is a let's go with a giant rotting leftist state again. okay that'll be disastrous. that's self-deluded.

You seriously want a lengthy proposition in the middle of GBS, outlining a grand reconciliation between Marxist, anarchist, and liberal ideas? :laugh: But I would suggest reading Karel Capek, for real.

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

Omi-Polari posted:

what i don't get is how commies in these threads always talk about how you can't bring up the USSR and a bunch of other failed communist states, but then on a dime they also praise those states for their amazing achievements until the world ran in the opposite direction as fast as it could.

i mean if you're proposing something new then that's cool and i'm interested. but what i actually hear is a let's go with a giant rotting leftist state again. okay that'll be disastrous. that's self-deluded.

This is how everybody feels about the nation or ideology they represent. Be proud of the good stuff, deny any responsibility for the bad stuff. Apologists for capitalism go another route entirely. Rather than debate the relative merits and costs of that system, they now deny that any other system is even possible.


Fun to argue about, but present-day communists are as relevant as those Dark Enlightenment nerds. I.e. not at all, and if they ever tried to implement anything they would be crushed by right and left wing alike.

communism bitch
Apr 24, 2009

Omi-Polari posted:

what i don't get is how commies in these threads always talk about how you can't bring up the USSR and a bunch of other failed communist states, but then on a dime they also praise those states for their amazing achievements until the world ran in the opposite direction as fast as it could.

i mean if you're proposing something new then that's cool and i'm interested. but what i actually hear is a let's go with a giant rotting leftist state again. okay that'll be disastrous. that's self-deluded.
The revolution doesn't happen overnight - it has to be a transformative process that only begins with the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie and seizure of the means of production. Full Communism demands as prerequisites highly advanced industry, automation, etc. The transition from Russia, Cuba, and China's unarguably agrarian economies could not produce the surplusses needed for communism without proceeding through stages of socialism to develop their internal economies and industrial strength in particular.
The achievements of those failed transitions were real and spectacular - all three realised in decades stunning developments in the sciences and industry that took the west hundreds of years to reach. The failures were also very real - Russia stalled into political repression and mismanagement for decades before ultimate collapse, while both Cuba and China are opening their economies to capitalism, presumably to avert the same catastrophic collapse that was seen in the USSR.

Pointing out the real victories of socilaist states while acknowledging their failure to reach the communist idea isn't contradictory.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost

Effectronica posted:

You seriously want a lengthy proposition in the middle of GBS, outlining a grand reconciliation between Marxist, anarchist, and liberal ideas? :laugh: But I would suggest reading Karel Capek, for real.

I suggest reading Richard Rorty and then doing the exact opposite of everything he says.

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008
while we're at it, there's nothing wrong with wealthy people using their wealth to get wealthier. commies often point it out as a problem, when in reality investment is a completely normal and healthy business practice, that allows society as a whole to grow and flourish

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008

Applewhite posted:

I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Also, you're cool and we should be friends.

*respectful nod*

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Applewhite posted:

I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Also, you're cool and we should be friends.

truly goon friend your libertarian words intrigue me might i also subscribe to your newsletter?? :tipshat:

PrinceRandom
Feb 26, 2013

DoctorStrangelove posted:

I swear communism will work this time guys!

The vanguard party is good.

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007
as a counterpoint, id like to point out that the wealthy are swine and should be slaughtered with pangas. double plus literally unironically.

communism bitch
Apr 24, 2009

paranoid randroid posted:

as a counterpoint, id like to point out that the wealthy are swine and should be slaughtered with pangas. double plus literally unironically.

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008
the reality is that most of the ills that people ascribe to capitalism are in reality the result of government, which conveniently also explains why communist governments fall into similar pitfalls. capitalism will function perfectly the moment the cancerous influence of government is removed entirely.

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


paranoid randroid posted:

as a counterpoint, id like to point out that the wealthy are swine and should be slaughtered with pangas. double plus literally unironically.

being run over by a boat would be pretty sweet way to kill the rich yeah

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

paranoid randroid posted:

as a counterpoint, id like to point out that the wealthy are swine and should be slaughtered with pangas. double plus literally unironically.


Live like the Romanovs, die like the Romanovs.

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007
private investment should be illegal and punishable with death by scaphism

PrinceRandom
Feb 26, 2013

My fav central planning fail. Khrushchevs introduction of corn into central Asia despite no one having any desire to buy or consume corn in central Asia.

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008
notice how communists are eager to express their desires to violently murder political dissidents, whereas most people who ascribe to capitalistic values are more than willing to let commies compete with them on the ideological free market. this should say quite a bit, about the fact that even the communists are aware of how flawed their beliefs are.

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost

PrinceRandom posted:

My fav central planning fail. Khrushchevs introduction of corn into central Asia despite no one having any desire to buy or consume corn in central Asia.

Man, if only there were some kind of... force that indicated what markets are viable. A "market force" if you will. You know, something self-correcting that runs on the cumulative will of an entire population.

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BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy

Effectronica posted:

You seriously want a lengthy proposition in the middle of GBS, outlining a grand reconciliation between Marxist, anarchist, and liberal ideas? :laugh: But I would suggest reading Karel Capek, for real.
does it have to be lengthy and grand? how about short and simple?

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