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stalin did nothing worng
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Oct 16, 2014 20:36
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It's extremely funny to look at things like Distributism, Karel Capek's opposition to the Czech communists, or the endgame of Galbraith's affleunt society and see how anti-socialist approaches end up developing into alternate means of socialism.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:36
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Applewhite posted:Man, if only there were some kind of... force that indicated what markets are viable. A "market force" if you will. You know, something self-correcting that runs on the cumulative will of an entire population.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:36
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Oberleutnant posted:when did the cumulative will of the entire population decide to subject itself to mass unemployment in order to force down the wages of those lucky enough to find work, lowering the costs of production and maximising profits for the owners of means of production? some people have stronger wills than others.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:37
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Oberleutnant posted:The revolution doesn't happen overnight - it has to be a transformative process that only begins with the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie and seizure of the means of production. Full Communism demands as prerequisites highly advanced industry, automation, etc. The transition from Russia, Cuba, and China's unarguably agrarian economies could not produce the surplusses needed for communism without proceeding through stages of socialism to develop their internal economies and industrial strength in particular.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:38
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heh but lets get serious here, in the gbs marxoteen theard: capitalism is the end state of history
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Oct 16, 2014 20:38
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Omi-Polari posted:does it have to be lengthy and grand? how about short and simple? Okay. Socialist (and specifically syndicalist) ideas, without the use of a vast central state and planning apparatus, in the wealthy countries, and the use of dirigisme capitalism and massive foreign aid in the poorer countries. Then transitioning to further decentralization and automation, space travel, etc. over time.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:38
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Freak Futanari posted:some people have stronger wills than others. would u say that there was a "triumph" of their will?
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Oct 16, 2014 20:38
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Effectronica posted:It's extremely funny to look at things like Goatse, Shmorky's's opposition to the D&D communists, or the endgame of Donald Trump's affleunt society and see how anti-perspirant approaches end up developing into alternate means of body odour.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:39
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Whenever I say "communist" I lick my lips a little
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Oct 16, 2014 20:39
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Oberleutnant posted:would u say that there was a "triumph" of their will? absolutely 
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Oct 16, 2014 20:39
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Freak Futanari posted:the reality is that most of the ills that people ascribe to capitalism are in reality the result of government, which conveniently also explains why communist governments fall into similar pitfalls. capitalism will function perfectly the moment the cancerous influence of government is removed entirely. My taxes paid for this giant bureaucracy and all I got in return was historically unprecedented increases in longevity, literacy, personal security, and individual rights.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:39
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Agag posted:My taxes paid for this giant bureaucracy and all I got in return was historically unprecedented increases in longevity, literacy, personal security, and individual rights. you can thank capitalism for this, fyi
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Oct 16, 2014 20:40
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Freak Futanari posted:notice how communists are eager to express their desires to violently murder political dissidents, whereas most people who ascribe to capitalistic values are more than willing to let commies compete with them on the ideological free market. this should say quite a bit, about the fact that even the communists are aware of how flawed their beliefs are. Capitalists will murder you. See: history of the labor movement.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:41
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Freak Futanari posted:you can thank capitalism for this, fyi You can thank social democracy for this, as capitalists have opposed every measure that improved the lives of the population as a whole in favor of personal gain. They were voted down.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:42
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Man central Asia was screwed hardcore by Soviets. The Great Taming of Nature constructed such lovely irrigation channels that over 80% of the water was lost before anyone could use it.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:43
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Oct 16, 2014 20:44
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PrinceRandom posted:Man central Asia was screwed hardcore by Soviets. The Great Taming of Nature constructed such lovely irrigation channels that over 80% of the water was lost before anyone could use it.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:44
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Agag posted:You can thank social democracy for this, as capitalists have opposed every measure that improved the lives of the population as a whole in favor of personal gain. They were voted down. if there was actually any real demand for that improvement, then the free market would have provided it either way. the main problem is statism intervention subtly sabotaging said market to keep public opinion turned against it.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:45
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PrinceRandom posted:Man central Asia was screwed hardcore by Soviets. The Great Taming of Nature constructed such lovely irrigation channels that over 80% of the water was lost before anyone could use it. thats why central asia basically begged to stay in the soviet union
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Oct 16, 2014 20:45
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i would not want to hug slavoj zizek. im sorry if thats revanchist of me.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:46
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*people rise up and threaten to devour the bourgeois* "okay okay look here we won't work you for 16 hours a day 7 days a week anymore pls dont kill us and hang our corpses from lampposts!! *six months later* "look how great capitalism is, look how healthy and free you are!!"
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Oct 16, 2014 20:46
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If only there was a Third Position, between Marxism and capitalism, that would solve everything...
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Oct 16, 2014 20:46
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:thats why central asia basically begged to stay in the soviet union Weird that state appointed dictators would want to stay with the state??
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Oct 16, 2014 20:47
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Freak Futanari posted:if there was actually any real demand for that improvement, then the free market would have provided it either way. the main problem is statism intervention subtly sabotaging said market to keep public opinion turned against it. This is good trolling. Almost believed you were this historically ignorant for a second. After we get off work at the irony factory let's go murder the rich.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:47
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PrinceRandom posted:Weird that state appointed dictators would want to stay with the state?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_referendum,_1991
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Oct 16, 2014 20:47
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Agag posted:This is good trolling. Almost believed you were this historically ignorant for a second. "uh oh, some dude has just owned me, and i cant counter his argues. better accuse him of trolling" - sore losers
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Oct 16, 2014 20:48
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deadking posted:If only there was a Third Position, between Marxism and capitalism, that would solve everything... The United States of America from 1940-1980.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:49
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Lol soviet democracy.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:50
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Freak Futanari posted:"uh oh, some dude has just owned me, and i cant counter his argues. better accuse him of trolling" - sore losers lol u know that marxism is literally an argument that goes little farther than saying "the products of labour should be equally distributed to those responsible for that labour, and not hoarded unfairly by a select few"? u literally can not win. there is no position that one can take coutner to this argument that doesn't make you an irredeemable shitbag
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Oct 16, 2014 20:50
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freak futanari, can you please phrase your rebuttals in the form of an anime comic. i believe you are safe from kewpuh in here.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:51
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Oberleutnant posted:lol u know that marxism is literally an argument that goes little farther than saying "the products of labour should be equally distributed to those responsible for that labour, and not hoarded unfairly by a select few"? u literally can not win. yeah thats right... NOBODY can win, in marxism. winning is outlawed
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Oct 16, 2014 20:51
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PrinceRandom posted:Lol soviet democracy. there's very little reason to doubt the results except in the baltic republics and to an extent ukraine, where there were boycotts against the referendum
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Oct 16, 2014 20:52
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paranoid randroid posted:freak futanari, can you please phrase your rebuttals in the form of an anime comic. i believe you are safe from kewpuh in here. i will make a special doujinshi, just because you asked. please wait warmly
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Oct 16, 2014 20:52
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Freak Futanari posted:yeah thats right... NOBODY can win, in marxism. winning is outlawed
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Oct 16, 2014 20:52
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Oberleutnant posted:is winning is the state in which 1% of the world enslaves the other 99% then no, nobody is allowed to "win". just about every life form on earth, with even a shred of intelligence, will naturally develop a hierarchical social structure.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:53
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All around me are familiar faces Worn out places, worn out faces Bright and early for their daily races Going nowhere, going nowhere Their tears are filling up their glasses No expression, no expression Hide my head, I wanna drown my sorrow No tomorrow, no tomorrow And I find it kinda funny I find it kinda sad The dreams in which I'm dying Are the best I've ever had I find it hard to tell you I find it hard to take When people run in circles It's a very, very mad world, mad world
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Oct 16, 2014 20:56
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Freak Futanari posted:just about every life form on earth, with even a shred of intelligence, will naturally develop a hierarchical social structure.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:56
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Marx was wrong about the revolution being inevitable. He didn't realize how good technology would get or that we were killing the planet.
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Oct 16, 2014 20:56
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good luck with your next failed experiment commies
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Oct 16, 2014 20:57
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