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Arkeus posted:Clearly, this Tarou's time to shine and talk to Ema. 
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Nov 21, 2014 01:37
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Poil posted:Roboharu: The Robot I Made is Going Through Puberty, and It's Rough. sounds like a really awful series. I'd watch that. I've already watched five different versions of that.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:54
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The Monkey Man posted:I found this chart of typical salaries in the anime industry. I knew it was bad for people at the bottom of the totem pole, but not this bad: This is why most animators skip college and do a short training program before going straight into the industry. By the time their peers graduate college, they'll at least be close to being a key animator and not subsisting just on ramen and financial help from their parents. As an animator, the Japanese industry is definitely a mix of good and bad. Good includes some creative control over the final product that outsource studios in China and India don't get, and consistent work. You never have to worry that the work will run out or that you'll have a period of unemployment. In America and Canada, animators always face periods of unemployment. Then again, I can make in a week what a Japanese animator makes in 3 weeks, while working 3/4ths of the hours.
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Nov 21, 2014 02:47
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How do animators make less than production assistants? Supply exceeding demand?
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Nov 21, 2014 04:55
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The Monkey Man posted:I found this chart of typical salaries in the anime industry. I knew it was bad for people at the bottom of the totem pole, but not this bad: How the heck is a part-time waitress earning more than a full-time animator? Maybe Ema should just go get a job at Denny's or something.
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Nov 21, 2014 05:39
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Boy, Aoi kind of did a lovely job cheering up Ema, didn't she? She didn't even mention that Segawa led off by basically saying "But Ema's art is usually so good that I was really shocked these came out bad" and just kind of let Ema jump from one miserable subject to another and convince herself that she's just the worst.
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Nov 21, 2014 06:12
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The Winter Comiket doujins are going to destroy Ema. By the way, are Tsutomu Mizushima and Seiji Mizushima related somehow?
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Nov 21, 2014 06:54
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kazakirinyancat posted:How the heck is a part-time waitress earning more than a full-time animator?
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Nov 21, 2014 09:13
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I don't think I've ever connected with an anime character so much when the college student one was talking about staying up all night reading Dostoevsky. Ema sure got the short end of the stick when it came to their anime friendship pact. Seems brutal.
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Nov 21, 2014 09:16
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Guyver posted:Like I mentioned earlier key animators get paid by the cut. I think there was an interview with Yamasaki Osamu were he said young animators get paid 4000 yen a cut, about $34, and there's an average of 300 cuts per episode in anime (which I'm unsure if that counts OP and EDs or not). So that's $10,200 split between all the key animators. Looking at just episode one of Shirobako there was 22 key animators. So $463 a person; if all the cuts are original, the same 22 animators are used and split evenly. Over 24 episodes and almost half a year that's $11,127. But they wont be the same 22 animators, there's bound to be recycled animation, recap episodes and it's never going to be an even split because more experienced and faster animators are going to get more work than the new guys. If during the year you only get to work every three episodes that's $8,025. Holy poo poo. This is guilt tripping me into buying a few blu-rays.
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Nov 21, 2014 09:35
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Aniplex thanks you for your money.
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Nov 21, 2014 14:27
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How can you loving live off less than 10,000 dollars a year??? Are these animators typically living at home and off parents for a while or something? Even our interns get paid more than that and they're loving useless
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Nov 21, 2014 16:00
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Razzled posted:How can you loving live off less than 10,000 dollars a year??? Are these animators typically living at home and off parents for a while or something? Even our interns get paid more than that and they're loving useless Is it maybe an animator only working for one job a year and take a bunch of different jobs to kinda stack them up? Or is this the final average from doing more than one show a year  ?
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Nov 22, 2014 01:13
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I love animation, but gently caress working in the animation industry. The same is true for any creative industry. Even science. STEM science.
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Nov 22, 2014 01:36
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The only good job is financial trader.
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Nov 22, 2014 01:54
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Razzled posted:How can you loving live off less than 10,000 dollars a year??? Are these animators typically living at home and off parents for a while or something? Even our interns get paid more than that and they're loving useless There's a reason they had that Kickstarter for an animators dorm
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Nov 22, 2014 01:57
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OnimaruXLR posted:There's a reason they had that Kickstarter for an animators dorm What? Link please.
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Nov 22, 2014 02:03
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https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/animator-dormitories-for-start-ups
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Nov 22, 2014 02:33
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Oh my god. Those poor loving bastards. Being an animator sucks.
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Nov 22, 2014 02:41
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That's a pretty worthy kickstarter, good to see it exceed the goal.
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Nov 22, 2014 02:45
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Those poor bastards. I'll def. kick in for the next one.
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Nov 22, 2014 02:48
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Japan is probably the worst place for animators these days (though China and India are also quite bad). With Japan you have high cost of living combined with low pay and a shrinking market of anime fans who actually buy the product. It's why the attrition rate is so high and why so much of the animation talent goes to the video game industry instead. And then, if possible, jump ship to Vancouver to work in the Canadian animation industry, which is awash in government subsidies.
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Nov 23, 2014 04:50
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Tell me again why Japan isn't willing to let go of its "insane market price for anime goodies because only a few will buy it" mentality instead of switching to a reasonable pricing model and selling more. Is there really just not a market for anyone but the hardcore fans?
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Nov 24, 2014 18:16
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Demicol posted:Tell me again why Japan isn't willing to let go of its "insane market price for anime goodies because only a few will buy it" mentality instead of switching to a reasonable pricing model and selling more. Is there really just not a market for anyone but the hardcore fans? Rental stores are still a pretty huge thing over there so it's more like the casual fans will rent and the hardcore will pay a lot to own it.
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Nov 24, 2014 18:19
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Demicol posted:Tell me again why Japan isn't willing to let go of its "insane market price for anime goodies because only a few will buy it" mentality instead of switching to a reasonable pricing model and selling more. Is there really just not a market for anyone but the hardcore fans? Probably because it's just that much more lucrative to appeal to the hardcore fans as they tend to have more money than sense. Especially if you consider that they would rather live like poo poo so they can spend their savings on otaku-bait merchandise. It's not all that different from free-to-play games and micro-transactions or gambling. It's a way of taking advantage of people with poor self-control and rational thinking.
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Nov 24, 2014 19:21
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Demicol posted:Is there really just not a market for anyone but the hardcore fans? No, there really isn't. They've tried to bring the prices down to earth, and each time the increase in sales didn't make up for the price drop. If you really did get prices down to what normal people would pay, you're going to require a huge sales increase, like a hundred times over, and there really aren't millions of people waiting to buy shows about being attracted to your sister. There are, however, a few thousand willing to pay hundreds of dollars a season for this stuff, so that's where they make the money. People bring up rental places as an explanation for this madness, but most anime aren't stocked by rental shops. There's just so much anime getting made that they fill up the room they make for anime with just a small percentage of what gets made. Casual fans are stuck watching on TV only, or if they do buy stuff it's manga, novels, or merchandise. The people who make money off of that stuff are almost always part of the committee that funded the show in the first place.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:23
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At the same time, imports are ludicrously priced so they're likely not getting much overseas sales without regional distribution deals.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:48
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The real way for them to make money overseas is to improve their digital distribution methods. Licensing is always a pain in the rear end but if Netflix and CR can figure it out I'm sure they can figure out a way to do it better.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:38
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Razzled posted:The real way for them to make money overseas is to improve their digital distribution methods. Licensing is always a pain in the rear end but if Netflix and CR can figure it out I'm sure they can figure out a way to do it better. DAISUKI is proof that it's apparently hard for Japan to make something overseas viewers will want to use.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:40
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nielsm posted:DAISUKI is proof that it's apparently hard for Japan to make something overseas viewers will want to use. It's been about a year or since I checked out what Daisuke is up to and, what do you know, it's still absolutely nothing.
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Nov 25, 2014 01:45
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The only times I've used Daisuki were to watch new -monogatari stuff since the Crunchyroll streams were on a long delay, and for some Gundam stuff since for the first time ZZ Gundam had official English subs up there. Emphasis on had, because welp they pulled ZZ Gundam from the site.
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Nov 25, 2014 05:05
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Srice posted:The only times I've used Daisuki were to watch new -monogatari stuff since the Crunchyroll streams were on a long delay, and for some Gundam stuff since for the first time ZZ Gundam had official English subs up there. Not thread-relevant, but the name ZZ Gundam makes me think of Gundams with big bushy white beards. 
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Nov 25, 2014 16:36
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PA Works throws us a bone by showing Ema work through her mental block and then follows that by showing how thoroughly unsatisfying and droll Aoi's sister's office job is. It's like they don't want us to work anywhere.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:26
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Razzled posted:How can you loving live off less than 10,000 dollars a year??? Are these animators typically living at home and off parents for a while or something? Even our interns get paid more than that and they're loving useless Just started this show and I like it. Anyway I do remember some documentary following animators in Japan and it was beyond rough. Wish I could remember what it was. nuru posted:At the same time, imports are ludicrously priced so they're likely not getting much overseas sales without regional distribution deals. Spirited Away BD is like...$80. 
PaganGoatPants fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 03:57
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Shirobako: At least you aren't a japanese office lady.
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Nov 28, 2014 07:24
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I really sympathize a lot with the struggles Ema and others have. Trying to learn in an environment where a lot of buzz/news/attention is around geniuses and people who seem to just be mystically amazing can really shatter your confidence. Somehow there seems to be a lot of implied shame about learning from others or going through the simple paces, because there's this expectation that you're supposed to just get it right the first time on your own.
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Nov 30, 2014 09:03
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I felt so sorry for the newbie key animator who feels so hopeless when she has to do the retakes. Because it actually is amazing that someone can become a key animator in only a year and a half. Most take 3-5 years to get there. But I guess she really wanted to be one of those genius people able to do it in 3 months especially when she feels the industry only values geniuses. Maybe if these animators were better compensated they wouldn't feel this same sense of hopelessness. But now it's like their artistic pride and financial future is tied up in how fast they can become a great and fast key animator. That is so much pressure.
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Nov 30, 2014 17:52
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Taru, I already am your overseas fan. 
devtesla fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Nov 30, 2014 |
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Nov 30, 2014 18:17
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Episode 6 got pulled from Crunchyroll, possibly because of all the Ideon references. Or because of the all-female rendition of Waiting for Godot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_Godot#Beckett.27s_objection_to_female_actors
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Dec 4, 2014 14:53
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Exodus seems like a really terrible anime Shirobako is pretty good though. CG Classmate's conflict of a well paying and secure job VS an interesting one is another good thing to spotlight, and probably the one I've related to the most.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:59
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