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BIZORT posted:It was my own understanding that a big part of what made Cousins go from potentially great to great is not shooting so many of those midrange shots and just going down low and doing what he does best more frequently. Why would you draft a less skillful guy who'd take up more space down low and force Cousins out to the midrange area again? I know he's improved from there and some low usage guy won't be the one necessarily forcing a guy like Cousins out but look at Omer Asik. He's low usage and not particularly offensively skilled so the only area he's respected is near the basket, forcing others away from him. Also, what is the benefit of having a 280lbs guy like Cousins gambling on the perimeter defensively? Cousins is disruptive in passing lanes and is a useful help defender whereas he's weaker in iso and in the low post. As it stands Cousins has a lot of double teams so in theory he could pass out to WCS if teams try to cheat off of him. I don't know how they would necessarily work out the offense there but Cousins is taking about as many shots from outside as he always has (about 65% from inside of 10 feet, about 35% from outside of 10 feet, same as the rest of his career) so it's unlikely that his improvement is as simple as "stopped taking bad shots".
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Feb 19, 2015 03:45
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Ugh you're right. I need to look at BBR before making posts that go off of my dumb eye tests Anyway, does Okafor project into something like a taller Elton Brand?
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Feb 19, 2015 03:50
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I dunno, how often did Brand have his back to the basket? I really don't remember, it feels like a decade since he was good Okafor is pretty much constantly in the low post (and for good reason, pretty much no one can stop him there) but also does pretty well when he puts the ball on the floor. He's also a pretty good passer. Offensively, he'll probably be a weird hybrid of Al Jefferson and DeMarcus Cousins. Defensively, he'll probably be a hybrid of Big Al and a folding chair Fake edit: ooh have a chart 
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Feb 19, 2015 04:07
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Cousins has good hands and instincts, Lowe pointed it out a bit when talking about his defensive improvements. The attention wanes at times, but when he's allowed to sag off screens (an adjustment Malone made this year) and corral ball handlers like he was a goalie he can be very disruptive. Unfortunately while his attention is on the guard/wing, the Kings forget to rotate or help and the basket is wide open As far as offense goes, he's been paired with the likes of Samuel Dalembert, Jason Thompson, Reggie Evans, JJ Hickson, and Carl Landry throughout most of his career. The only time he's had a stretchy guy next to him were those 2 months Patrick Patterson didn't play like poo poo for us. It might not be an ideal fit but it's not like he's really had one before.
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Feb 19, 2015 06:29
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Okafor is so unstoppable around the basket that it broke Kevin Pelton's projection thing. It just assumes no one can actually make that high a percentage of 2 pointers and regresses him like crazy. The Jefferson comparison works in terms of polish as a post scorer and rebounding ability, but he has a way better all around game. Al is a complete black hole most of the time, while Okafor is a good passer who knows how to find the open guy when he's doubled. He's also a lot better cutting off the ball too, and of course he's bigger so the defensive issues aren't quite as pronounced, even though they're still there. Brand was actually really good defensively so I dunno that I like that one as much.
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Feb 19, 2015 17:51
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Philly just traded MCW. All bets are off.
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Feb 19, 2015 23:20
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So the smart money is on either Mudiay or Russell being Sixers next season and I'm completely okay with that.
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Feb 20, 2015 02:37
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Ty1990 posted:So the smart money is on either Mudiay or Russell being Sixers next season and I'm completely okay with that. Yeah, that was my thought too. They are going hard after Mudiay, I bet.
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Feb 20, 2015 13:53
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Looks like the Sixers are well suited to move down or move up depending on what they want and how they value guys. They have a lot of ammo to move up and if they land number one, I could see them trading Okafor for a fortune. I love the NBA draft. edit Bosh may miss the rest of the season. That Heat pick could be really close to 10.
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Feb 20, 2015 15:50
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euphronius posted:Looks like the Sixers are well suited to move down or move up depending on what they want and how they value guys. They have a lot of ammo to move up and if they land number one, I could see them trading Okafor for a fortune. Okafor is way better than Embiid or Noel so I don't know why you'd trade him.
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Feb 20, 2015 16:57
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Paul Zuvella posted:Okafor is way better than Embiid or Noel so I don't know why you'd trade him. Okafor #1, trade Noel for the #2 pick for Mudiay.
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Feb 20, 2015 17:07
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Paul Zuvella posted:Okafor is way better than Embiid or Noel so I don't know why you'd trade him. I believe he meant trading their treasure trove of picks to move up in the draft to pick Okafor for themselves. The 76ers don't even have the worst record right now.
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Feb 20, 2015 17:13
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If they get Okafor and they like him of course they could keep him. I just meant if they get #1 and feel like they want to move him, they are in a great spot that way too. They can move up or down. If I had to choose Id take Embiid over Okafor, but obv yeah you can play both. I don't think Noel is very good right now and not really a consideration.
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Feb 20, 2015 17:15
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euphronius posted:If they get Okafor and they like him of course they could keep him. I think trading Okafor would be a horrible misstep if Hinkie's plan is to rebuild via the draft. He looks like he has the opportunity to be a once in a generation type post player. We don't even know if Embiid can play.
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Feb 20, 2015 17:26
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They're going to draft Okafor and trot out a line up of Aldemir, McGee, Noel, Embiid, Okafor.
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Feb 20, 2015 17:45
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Regnevelc posted:Okafor #1, trade Noel for the #2 pick for Mudiay. No one is trading a pick that high for Noel now.\ Trading up and down in the draft is way harder than y'all always seem to think it is.
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Feb 20, 2015 17:52
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Yeah, why would someone trade a top pick for Noel who is two years closer to being off his rookie contract when they could have traded a song for him on draft night? Hopefully Embiid gets some playing time this year, as I think his play will determine a lot of moves the Sixers make. Either way, if they get the #1 they will take and play okafor.
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Feb 20, 2015 19:18
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MourningView posted:Trading up and down in the draft is way harder than y'all always seem to think it is. Master trader Morey tried time and again to do this and when he finally managed it, it was going from like 14 to 12. Teams have way more faith in their drafting and development then they probably should.
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Feb 20, 2015 19:20
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chunkles posted:Master trader Morey tried time and again to do this and when he finally managed it, it was going from like 14 to 12. Teams have way more faith in their drafting and development then they probably should. If you draft down and someone on or between your spots hits you are chewed out by the media for a decade.
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Feb 20, 2015 19:35
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Basically no matter what you do you're gonna get chewed on by the media for a decade though
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Feb 20, 2015 19:47
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Paul Zuvella posted:Okafor is way better than Embiid or Noel so I don't know why you'd trade him. Desperately trying not to take the bait. edit: and failing. If he stays healthy Embiid can be transcendental. I don't think people who haven't watched him every game understand the rate at which he excelled. It was insane to watch, every week some new amazing thing happened like he'd been doing it for years. He'll never be Anthony Davis but most anything else is possible. kiimo fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Feb 20, 2015 |
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Feb 20, 2015 20:56
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kiimo posted:Desperately trying not to take the bait. Noel I don't see how it's even debatable. Embiid maybe. Okafor is better right now and safer, but Emiid's ceiling is insane and he showed flashes of being great while also managing to be at least a good college player.
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Feb 20, 2015 21:31
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kiimo posted:Desperately trying not to take the bait. It's not exactly bait, no one knows how good any of these players are going to be so at a certain point this is all speculative. Like Okafor is really loving good. Joel Embiid was really good, but he looked completely invisible for huge stretches of games in college and would occasionally do something super cool. We literally have no idea how he is going to translate to the NBA, where everyone is bigger, stronger, and better. Okafor on the other hand is completely domination college defenders, has one of the most polished post games I've seen in college, and is an excellent passer for a player his size. He has just as much a ceiling as embiid and a much, much higher floor. I also didn't say "The sixers should get rid of Noel and Embiid" I responded to someone saying the Sixers should trade Okafor if they got the #1 pick, which I think would be incredibly, incredibly stupid.
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Feb 20, 2015 21:39
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I'm trying to imagine Okafor and Embiid playing together. The paint would be like a redwood forest. I am not sure what you mean by disappearing for huge stretches. That was Wiggins. Embiid only disappeared when he hurt his back.
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Feb 20, 2015 22:36
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Embiid was really up and down in a way that Okafor hasn't been. He'd usually do something that showed how great he could be in every game but he rarely would consistently dominate a game like he sometimes looked like he could, and like Okafor does now. Which was sort of to be expected given where he was at in his development cycle, but I assume that's what he means.
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Feb 20, 2015 23:00
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Well Okafor has been special. That's not normal for a freshman I don't think. Freshman are usually inconsistent.
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Feb 20, 2015 23:06
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MourningView posted:Embiid was really up and down in a way that Okafor hasn't been. He'd usually do something that showed how great he could be in every game but he rarely would consistently dominate a game like he sometimes looked like he could, and like Okafor does now. Which was sort of to be expected given where he was at in his development cycle, but I assume that's what he means. Yeah, I mean Embiid showed a ton of potential with how quick he was learning and putting things together, but Okafor already has put it together
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Feb 20, 2015 23:15
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Okafor's already played 150 more minutes than Embiid did in college. Probably helps that Okafor fouls less than half as much as Embiid did, but there's probably some other things going on too. I was under the impression that everyone was much, much higher on Embiid's potential as a defender? also from a few pages ago yeah it was UNI I was hearing about. Also D'angelo Russell is another Montverde Academy alum, that school's really producing a lot of players
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Feb 20, 2015 23:47
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kiimo posted:Well Okafor has been special. That's not normal for a freshman I don't think. Freshman are usually inconsistent. Has he been special defensively?
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Feb 20, 2015 23:59
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EvanTH posted:I was under the impression that everyone was much, much higher on Embiid's potential as a defender? You are right, first draft analysis on him I pulled up... quote:Defensively, Embiid is a game-changer. He has impeccable timing and hand-eye coordination, making him a dominant shot blocker. His length is imposing. He can turn an open shot into a blocked shot and make it look easy. Embiid’s length and feet should allow him to become a great pick-and-roll defender, particularly when his team chooses to ice. I see a lot of Kevin Garnett in him in this aspect. His wingspan and lateral agility will prevent guards from turning the corner and getting to the rim. It’s shocking to fathom that this kid has only been playing basketball for four years. He is just so smooth at both ends of the court. If he continues to improve the way he has since he first began playing, he could put together a career worthy of the Hall of Fame. I forgot he was the favorite to be the overall first pick before his foot fracture was discovered. Oh and I'm not sure how Okafor compares defensively but Towns definitely.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:00
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Okafor's relatively average defensively. He's kinda slowfooted but he's big enough that he can deter shots that way, and he's pretty smart. Towns is really good defensively, but he's a lot worse offensively than Okafor is on defense.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:05
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Am I retarded to say that if I had to choose, as a Sixers fan, who I wanted in June that I would take Russell or Mudiay over Okafor? This is based on me loving Embiid and assuming we won't be able to fetch all that much for Noel in a trade (by that I mean him + a first wouldn't get us back into the top 6 IMO).
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Feb 21, 2015 01:13
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It makes sense based on need but I don't think you pass on Okafor. He's the clear cut number 1 prospect and I don't think you pass one of those up if you have the pick. And I especially wouldn't do it for Muiday who seems like a huge unknown. There's a lot of ifs with Embiid too. Passing on what looks like the best player in the class and then watching Embiid continue to get hurt or stall out in his development would be pretty bad.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:30
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If you have the opportunity to have a repeat twin towers situation like San Antonio did but with a David Robinson more the same age as Tim Duncan, you do it.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:31
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Honestly though, what would prevent them from possibly having the first triple towers? Its not unreasonable for Noel to come off the bench for 30 minutes and pair with whoever isnt tired or in foul trouble. It has potential to be ridiculous.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:53
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jimcunningham posted:Honestly though, what would prevent them from possibly having the first triple towers? Its not unreasonable for Noel to come off the bench for 30 minutes and pair with whoever isnt tired or in foul trouble. It has potential to be ridiculous. Pels have done pretty well with a jumbo package of Anthony Davis, Omer Asik, and Ryan Anderson. The Jazz had some success, too, when they played with Al Jefferson, Derrick Favors, and Paul Millsap.
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Feb 21, 2015 02:07
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The only issue I really see with it is that I don't think either Embiid or Okafor can play PF defensively, but that's still on those things I think you try to figure out probably.Kibner posted:Pels have done pretty well with a jumbo package of Anthony Davis, Omer Asik, and Ryan Anderson. The Jazz had some success, too, when they played with Al Jefferson, Derrick Favors, and Paul Millsap. Yeah but neither of those are comparable becuse they didn't feature three guys who all get almost all of their offense around the basket. Anderson shoots threes and Davis doesn't wreck spacing either because you can let him work out of the high post. Utah was a little closer but Millsap can shoot too. MourningView fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 02:08
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MourningView posted:The only issue I really see with it is that I don't think either Embiid or Okafor can play PF defensively, but that's still on those things I think you try to figure out probably. I would imagine they will be able to once there bodies stop growing and play for 2 or 3 years.
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Feb 21, 2015 03:25
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jimcunningham posted:I would imagine they will be able to once there bodies stop growing and play for 2 or 3 years. Okafor is never going to be quick enough for it
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Feb 21, 2015 17:24
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Do normal trade rules apply on draft day or could you deal Deron Williams and/or Joe Johnson for just a draft pick and not have to match salaries? Not that I'm saying any team should accept such an offer from the Nets, but would it be viable?
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Feb 21, 2015 17:29
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