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Hello all!! I'm losing sleep over this.. 24 year old almost 25. Art has always been a huge passion of mine, but I was scared out of it in high school. My current situation is that I am teaching English abroad. I have a degree from a prominent university in an unrelated field. I love art, especially illustration, and I also enjoy graphic design. But I can't decide between marketing and graphic design. ... or illustration, but.. I was working in marketing and doing some freelance graphic design/illustration before moving to Europe to teach English. This is my second year teaching. The plan was to enjoy living in another country for a short time and then go back to school for concept art at the concept design academy. However, after a lot of research on the subject, I discovered that concept art was a really difficult a field to break into. I love the idea of it, having such huge sacrifices for an uncertain outcome really scared me. So, graphic design and illustration seemed like a more practical choice. I did a ton of research on schools and certificate programs, etc, and in Europe and the United States. I can't take out a billion dollars in loans. The two best options I found was one in Germany which is basically free but I know nothing about, and is in Bremen. One in Scotland, which only charges around $2,000 a year (but I would have to wait until I was 26 to enter, because I would need a 3 year resident requirement in Europe before getting that price), and it is a 4 year program, and a 3 year affordable after work program in the states. They also have a 1-2 year master's program. Additionally, in my university town (Los Angeles) they have a 3 year after work graphic design certificate program at a famous art school. The country I live in has really cheap options, but they are of really dubious quality and I can't imagine myself living here for another 3 or 4 years as I do not like the culture. Basically I'm at a crossroads and I'm feeling really stuck and stressed out about what route to take. My problem is that I love artistic, creative things and feel sad when I'm not doing them, but I also really like working in marketing, strategizing and the idea of having a lot of responsibility in planning the direction of a company or nonprofit, maybe going on business trips, that sort of thing. And most of all I'm really terrified about the horror stories. I could basically see myself being happy in both fields, but the downsides seem to be either that I would really regret not having done art, or that I am really poor, work really long hours, and are stressed about no job stability and advancement. Right now the best plan I've been able to think of is try to get a 9-5 marketing job and try to study graphic design and illustration after work to build a portfolio. But I'm afraid that it might get me "good enough", but then again, at least I would have a roof over my head... So, my general questions are: 1. Is it possible to get a job which has aspects of a traditional business/marketing job AND graphic design/illustration/creative stuff, outside of entry level or internships? (I've mostly seen advertisements for graphic design and marketing in the same description for interns). I had an internship at a nonprofit where I did marketing and graphic design/illustration (to draw the graphics), and I really loved it. Something like that would be my ideal job. But I don't know if this sort of combined situation is something that is only found in internships and lowlevel stuff. 2. Is the saying true that "If you can think of anything else you would be happy doing, you shouldn't do art"? Any advice on how to figure this out? I have 8 months left in my current teaching job, and it's part time, so I'm studying art and trying to find some sort of little part time social media job or volunteer thing online to keep my resume relevant. 3. Any general advice for people on whether or not to "take the plunge" if they could see themselves being happy either way? I love art but I'm terrified of the idea of terrible working hours and constantly being in and out of work. and/or massive loans which I can't pay. 4. Is it a bad idea to want to find a job in Europe (but a different country because although I speak the language here, I don't like the culture I am in..) because I want to have a lot of vacation time and close proximity to travel, one of my big passions? Also, my boyfriend lives here? .. 
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Oct 22, 2014 21:03
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You'd probably get better responses asking in the BFC sub-forum, but I think it's important to realize that "art" isn't a career field. What, specifically, would you be looking to do for a living? When you say illustration do you mean online stuff, or do you want to illustrate comic books, or what? I'm pretty sure that around 100% of people will tell you that marketing + graphic design is going to be a safer, smarter option than pursuing a degree in illustration. For most people, art makes an excellent hobby and a terrible career. Everyone wants to be a writer or a painter or a musician, etc., but the chances of being able to make a sustainable living at it are slim as hell. It's probably only a little more likely than becoming a pro athlete. Realistically, most people are going to be happier if they can find a career field that incorporates some aspect of the hobby they love with an actual paying position that isn't going to make you a stressed-as-hell freelancer with no job security or guaranteed income. If you enjoy online illustrating, I'm fairly certain there are careers in both marketing and web design that would encompass that to some degree. I'm not in either of those fields so I can't comment for certain, but I'm sure someone in the field will be along to comment one way or the other. To be honest, there's a lot you have to figure out first that is going to be way outside the scope of most people's experience here. For instance, I've heard that trying to get a job in Europe is pretty difficult if you aren't an EU citizen. If you are going to school in Europe that might make things easier, but again, I have no personal experience there. It sounds like you haven't looked into the details of what all of this would entail too closely, which imo should be your absolute first step before stressing out about anything else. Hopefully some of this was helpful. You might try asking in the BFC forum for some specific career-related advice from people that know a lot more about the process.
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Oct 22, 2014 23:09
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Wow, thank you so much for your response! I am in the process of getting an EU citizenship, hence the idea of working in Europe. As for the art schools in Europe, the main idea with that was that they are much more affordable (the one in Germany is almost free, for example). The problem though is that the ones I'm finding which are cheap, I have 0 idea about their quality (such as this German school), and the websites haven't been much help. The ones which are known as "good" and taught in English, are still about $15,000/year, and that's not including living costs, and I'd have to wait until I was 26 to enter without having to pay even more due to residency requirements. and so that's still a looot of debt, and I wouldn't be out until I'm 30. I have a friend who was in my same position, went to art center at 25, but took out TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS IN DEBT. he got an art director job after graduating..but...two..hundred...thousand..dollars. I guess emotionally what has been difficult for me is just accepting that this is probably not going to work out. I graduated in 2012 and I had this big plan about going back to school for art, but at the time I graduated I wasn't entirely sure about it, and now it just feels too late and too risky. I mean if I were 18 this all would have been different, but I guess there are some decisions which can't really be "undone" blubberjump fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 23, 2014 06:43
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Ok, I cross posted this to the Career fourms. Another crucial point: I have almost nothing in savings. Literally maybe 400 USA$. Before moving to Spain I had a lot of problems with my family which left me homeless during said amazing internship, and then I had to pay for a lot of expensive psychotherapy due to developing PTSD. We have a "relationship" now but the idea of having to rely on them financially in any way shape or form terrifies me because they have been really abusive to me in the past. So for that reason, as much as it pains me, I'm also thinking about maybe quitting my current ESL job in December when the school has winter break and trying to find a job in the states then, and then gain savings with it until my EU citizenship comes through.. The great thing with this job is that I can travel CONSTANTLY, but it's risky because as I said, I barely break even and have no savings..
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Oct 23, 2014 07:15
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I can't imagine taking out 200 grand in loans for any liberal arts degree, to be honest. Here in the states you can end up getting tuition waivers, fellowships, adjunct work, etc. that makes your tuition much cheaper (often free) at the graduate level, and there are usually scholarships available at the undergrad level to make tuition a lot more palatable. From a financial standpoint, you have to look at the big picture. Most post-grad career fields are going to be looking at a $40-80k per year salary, with few exceptions. In the US, most MA salaries are in the mid 40k range. If the cost of your degree doesn't match up with the salary bump it's going to provide, you've got a problem, especially once you tack on a mortgage, kids, other bills, etc. Liberal arts degrees are even worse off than most in that regard. Keep in mind, too, that the priorities for a graduate degree are different when you are looking at arts. In other fields a graduate degree is a prerequisite for better positions. But if you write the next breakout hit novel or paint the next Mona Lisa, it doesn't matter if you went to Yale or if you are high school dropout. This is why the majority of people that go for a graduate degree in the arts are looking to get into academia, which means tacking on a PhD as well. If you are looking at an MA as a terminal degree, it simply doesn't open many doors that a BA doesn't, and a BA doesn't open any doors that any other degree won't. An art education can provide you a strong technical foundation, and the networking aspects can be valuable if you know how to use them, but I wouldn't expect to go into it with a career in the arts waiting on the other side. If it is what you are really passionate about and you decide to do it, I would definitely recommend taking the absolute cheapest option you can that isn't from a total sham university. If you are going to like one of the top 3 art schools in the world, that might be worth 200k. If the choice is between two mid-tier schools and one is free while the other is 200k, that's not even a choice. And again, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from going into a more marketable direction with your degree and still creating / being passionate about art. The great thing about the internet is that you can drat near steal an art degree just by looking at tutorials, videos, lectures, etc. online. Formal schooling offers a lot more structure, and there's definitely value to having face to face interaction and feedback from professionals, but if you want to make art then don't let the lack of a degree stop you. I think you'd be pretty surprised how few artists in any field have graduate-level credentials.
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Oct 23, 2014 07:19
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Well, Art Center Pasadena is considered to be one of the best art schools in the world (re: friend who took out $200,000 in loans). http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Art_Center_College_of_Design/Salary#by_Years_Experience <- average starting salary for art center grads is about $59,000. Is that enough return on investment to take out the loans..?
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Oct 23, 2014 07:43
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I would have to defer to the BFC people on that one, I honestly couldn't answer that with any authority. I will say that my best friend is about to graduate from Pharmacy School with 120-something thousand in debt, which is about average, and going into a career field that pays around 120k per year. My gut feeling is that 200k for a 60k per year salary is not a great outlook, but people that crunch those kind of numbers professionally and know all the ins and outs are a lot more qualified than me on that front. edit: There's also a sticky thread here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2563469 that deals with school / career questions specifically in the art field, so they might be able to give you a better picture, too.
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Oct 23, 2014 08:02
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blubberjump posted:Well, Art Center Pasadena is considered to be one of the best art schools in the world (re: friend who took out $200,000 in loans). No, $200,000 is an absurd amount of money to be in debt. Repaying that at 60k/year would be extremely unpleasant.
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Oct 28, 2014 23:58
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I wouldn't rely much on that median salary reporting, either. Unless I'm missing something, 104 people is a fairly small sample size.Grizzled Patriarch posted:And again, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from going into a more marketable direction with your degree and still creating / being passionate about art. The great thing about the internet is that you can drat near steal an art degree just by looking at tutorials, videos, lectures, etc. online. Formal schooling offers a lot more structure, and there's definitely value to having face to face interaction and feedback from professionals, but if you want to make art then don't let the lack of a degree stop you. I think you'd be pretty surprised how few artists in any field have graduate-level credentials. This is also my personal advice. I don't want to devalue the benefit of having skilled instructors on-hand who can evaluate you and lead you through a structured program, but it has to be compared with the cost. $200,000 is a truckload of money for the average person. How much value can you reasonably expect to get from going to a structured class and getting that kind of feedback? Is it $200,000 worth? In the past, it might well have been, but, as mentioned, we're living in an age where it is easier than ever for the average individual to pick up a completely new skill by themselves with a minimum amount of outside aid. There's thousands of free tutorials and dozens, if not hundreds, of discussion groups based entirely around graphic design/illustration that would be glad to provide feedback, discuss techniques, etc. Hell, we've got a good one right here. This forum has a great number of people working with every type of medium you'd care to name who're glad to lend a helping hand. I think it's important for you to examine why you want to do art. I sometimes have the occasional idle fantasy about being some popular comic book artist or a mangaka or something like that, but the reality of actual commercial work is that you are frequently enslaved to market demands and essentially have the rug pulled out from you in terms of creativity if your publisher decides that the work needs to be extended for another year. I would truly grow to despise art if it ended up merely being another tool I used to not starve. My goals are to do a bit of independent publishing here and there, and if I can somehow live off of that at some point, fantastic; but thinking that it'd be exactly like that and planning for that eventuality is just asking for my soul to get crushed. I don't want to compromise on the integrity of my art, which I view, fundamentally, as a creative endeavor of expression of my ideas, and that largely excludes me from mainstream publishing. You may be completely different, which is fine, but you need to seriously sit down and figure out what's impelling you towards this and why it's seemingly becoming a key point in your life, especially now. Starting as a hobbyist is, in my mind, the best thing you could do for yourself. This will not only help you to advance your basic technical skills, but it will also strongly inform you about whether the kind of art you're looking to do is well and truly your calling in life. I found that, after I actually got started on the process of learning art, that it was something I only ever wanted to do occasionally. I had neither the drive nor determination to sit down for 3 hours of art practice every day to hone my skills. Again, this is fine, but it clearly informed me that a career in art was not in the cards. If you find yourself similarly struggling, and it's not just from the fear of actually doing art, then it's probably a strong indicator that a career in the arts isn't something that's going to be able to drag you out of bed in the morning. Speaking as someone with ADHD, there ain't a drat thing in the world that'll give you the motivation to learn and do something well, whether it's pills or a $200,000 degree. It's best to figure out that you do have the motivation right now rather than after you've already taken out the loan.
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Oct 29, 2014 00:35
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