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jonnypeh posted:So I figured I'd do some googling... quote:In around twelve years, life expectancy in Ukraine took a further leap forward, gaining more than in France, whereas Russia made almost no progress at all. In 1938–1939, Ukrainian life expectancy reached 47.8 years for males and 52.6 for females. The difference from France was now only 8.1 years for males and 9.4 for females, whereas the gap with Russia had more than doubled (8.2 and 6.5 years respectively). gg wp
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Nov 15, 2014 22:23
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Mans posted:
And you are what, a Belgian sociology student? I can't wait to hear your opinion on life under communism! No, wait, I don't. You're smothering the thread, taking space from people with actual interesting experiences, and filling it with D&D walls of text.
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Nov 16, 2014 01:54
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there are people out there who aren't middle class American I.T. workers and disagree with my sheltered world view
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Mans posted:Hoxha did nothing wrong is what i'm assuming is your point You could make that assumption if you're thick as pig poo poo. My comment was in response to a poster saying the USSR 'exported benevolence.' I said that using the threat of sanctions to bludgeon smaller socialist countries into submission was not benevolent. But yeah I guess because I didn't spend a paragraph decrying the crimes of the Hoxha regime, a simpleton might think it was somehow a defense of the PPSh, because we all know everything is black and white on the internet.
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Nov 16, 2014 05:44
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Doctor Malaver posted:And you are what, a Belgian sociology student? I can't wait to hear your opinion on life under communism! Yes i'm sorry, do go on about how you considered yourself superior to everyone else and now you can't even build refrigerators. Even though i'd really like to live in Belgium and take advantage of their amazing food, metropolitan areas, museums and sociology studies (which i guess are worthless to you? I guess i did hit an IT never after all!) i don't but i do know people who lived in the former bloc! My father's uncle got into a study program and got his higher education in East Germany. One of the many contradictions he used to talk about life over there was how he had free education, virtually free housing, very cheap restaurants and access to his basic needs without much cost but every other day he'd see a tank roll by in the street which he something he never really got used to, while there was a prevailing sense of being listened to by the secret police every-time anyone started to talk about negative aspects of life over there. He resumed his experience as "if you just lived your life without rusting feathers you'd have a pretty calm and stable life" which coming from someone who had left a fascist dictatorship years before is unquestionably an improvement, but compared to (still existing) western social democracy it was still a lot behind "us". I also know former citizen who is the perfect example of ostalgie so i prefer to take his rose tinted view of East Germany with a pinch of salt. That and he was a kid so at best he remembers his childhood, his opinion is probably more valid about post unification East Germany that pre-unification. There are also tales from people who left Latin America or Africa to study in the USSR. Compared to life in their countries life was obviously much better, stable and advanced, although it's not hard to improve life quality over 70 and 80's South America and sub-equatorial Africa. Basically, other than the west, life there was stable and decent enough compared to the rest of the world to be considered better, although with an enormous gap between them and the west (this in the 80's, i have no idea about comparative quality before). BUTT PIPE posted:You could make that assumption if you're thick as pig poo poo. My comment was in response to a poster saying the USSR 'exported benevolence.' I said that using the threat of sanctions to bludgeon smaller socialist countries into submission was not benevolent.
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Nov 17, 2014 08:08
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I was born in Poland just as the Berlin Wall was falling and lived there for the first 20 years of my life. What I known of communism I mostly got from my family's and a couple yars older friends' stories, as well as various bits communist media/propaganda and other assorted pieces of 'communist legacy' a Pole is exposed to during his education (ie to teach him how it was, not to glorify communism - in fact it's the exact opposite). Poland (during its communist years called Peoples' Republic of Poland) was never a part of the USSR, and as such the propaganda took a bit of a slightly different spin, but more of that in another post, which I'll make an effort post a tad later as I've got a flight to catch in a couple hours, but I'll share a few fun/interesting stories/anecdotes. During the communist years you not only got assigned a job, but also the place where you live. Couples, especially couples with children got preferential treatment. It was not that uncommon for two people to marry each other (and potentially have kids) for the sole reason of being reassigned to nicer lodgings. In fact two of the girls I dated were born in such families. When democracy got reinstated you would typically gain ownership of whatever state-owned (as everything was state-owned) building you occupied. The family of one of the girls I mentioned got particularly unlucky as they were due for relocation to a MUCH nicer house (currently worth about 20x as much as the place they live in) literally weeks after communism ended. As people mentioned before queues were omnipresent. Given how scarce the goods were, money was pretty much worthless. Regardless of how much money you had (unless you had the allmighty dollars, possession of which was illegal) you could only buy as much stuff as your food stamps would allow you. Everyone would be assigned the same amount of food stamps for daily necessities, foodstuffs etc, yet you still got more stamps than there was goods available. How people got by was by connections, or simply being clever. One trick I found particularly amusing was borrowing your friend's or neighbor's baby (assuming you didn't have one of your own) to take to queue with you in hopes of people letting you skip the queue. Another way of getting ahead in life was to become a snitch for the Security Bureau. If you noticed your neighbor being to no good, say listening to western radio stations, owning foreign currency, speaking ill of the system you could rat on them in exchange for various benefits (preferential housing, being pushed up in queue for a car or other luxury item, generous food packages, including such luxurious items as oranges, real coffee, whisky and the like). For such reasons people would be oftentimes be suspicious of others seeming too well-off. In the recent years the files of the Security Bureau are slowly becoming declassifid and it turned out that a number of staunch opponents of communism, at one point or the other holding somewhat high positions in the post-communist government, were in fact Security Bureau agents. I'll give you guys more stuff when I get around to it, ask questions if you want anything specific answered.
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Nov 17, 2014 17:30
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Mecharasputin posted:As people mentioned before queues were omnipresent. Given how scarce the goods were, money was pretty much worthless. Regardless of how much money you had (unless you had the allmighty dollars, possession of which was illegal) you could only buy as much stuff as your food stamps would allow you. Everyone would be assigned the same amount of food stamps for daily necessities, foodstuffs etc, yet you still got more stamps than there was goods available. How people got by was by connections, or simply being clever. One trick I found particularly amusing was borrowing your friend's or neighbor's baby (assuming you didn't have one of your own) to take to queue with you in hopes of people letting you skip the queue. At least here in Estonia food stamps existed for a short period of time (1990-91 if my memory serves me), I remember my mother trading vodka stamps for sugar. And yes, my mom used the queue trick you mentioned, she put us in the longer one and then went herself to the shorter queue, this could get quite nervewrecking when you were closing in on the cashier and mom was nowhere to be seen. City streets looked real funny back then, there was almost always some queue winding thru the streets and pedestrians passing by asking what deficit good was on sale. Mecharasputin posted:Another way of getting ahead in life was to become a snitch for the Security Bureau. If you noticed your neighbor being to no good, say listening to western radio stations, owning foreign currency, speaking ill of the system you could rat on them in exchange for various benefits (preferential housing, being pushed up in queue for a car or other luxury item, generous food packages, including such luxurious items as oranges, real coffee, whisky and the like). For such reasons people would be oftentimes be suspicious of others seeming too well-off. In the recent years the files of the Security Bureau are slowly becoming declassifid and it turned out that a number of staunch opponents of communism, at one point or the other holding somewhat high positions in the post-communist government, were in fact Security Bureau agents. My families only contact with KGB (that I know of) came when dad went to a conference in Hungary and was asked to keep an eye on his colleagues who were travelling with him. As it turned out they were all tasked to do this and write a report when they returned. Another aspect of Soviet life that I havent seen mentioned here is the subbotnik or some other form of "community" work. For example every autumn kids went to a nearby kolkhoz or sovhoz (collective farm) to harvest potatoes. Also cleaning up parks was something that schoolkids often did.
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Nov 17, 2014 20:35
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Mans posted:Yes i'm sorry, do go on about how you considered yourself superior to everyone else and now you can't even build refrigerators. Even though i'd really like to live in Belgium and take advantage of their amazing food, metropolitan areas, museums and sociology studies (which i guess are worthless to you? I guess i did hit an IT never after all!) i don't but i do know people who lived in the former bloc! Well, I'm glad to hear it was better for your uncle than Salazar-era Portugal, but I don't really see how that's an argument for Communism in the present day
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Nov 18, 2014 04:49
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Mans posted:
Internet marxist from D&D making GBS threads up the thread with his angsty gently caress-you-dad rhetoric rather than letting people with actual experiences in these regions of the world share them is calling me sheltered, how adorable.
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Nov 18, 2014 07:56
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I come from a post-Communist country (Lithuania!), but I was born in 1989, so I'm a commie by birth certificate only. A common sentiment back home why people miss communism was that they were young when USSR was in place, so everything was better.Plus, the perception was that there are no poor and no crime. Strange how they remember only the good stuff whereas I remember only the bad poo poo from childhood. The thing was that years after the fall had a lot of turmoil. Soldiers "went to the forests" (it's basically a saying meaning "go partisan", like many people did in the doomed Lithuanian resistance movement of 1945-1955), at least one rail bridge blew up on mysterious circumstances (nobody got hurt, tho), you had lines for gas, organized crime went through the roof (before we abolished death penalty, it was carried out in the back of a van, on highway, with a point blank shot to the head... yeah), a lot of factories got privatized under less than clear circumstances (even know, there's a strong belief that any big business is bending the rules if not being outright criminal), conmen established banks that swindled a lot of cash before disappearing (and how were people supposed to know better?), you were finally free to travel anywhere you want, but were too poor to do that (meanwhile, you could travel easily inside the USSR, but not outside), what else... Politicians lost confidence of the people, a lot of former Commies got saddled in the new government (and didn't learn how to be decent folks), and so on and so forth. Now we have 10-20 political parties who mostly differ in names (I'd vote Social Democrat, but them's the dicks, and I'm opposed to Liberals), except for Labor party (that has Moscow behind it) and Lithuanian Pole Voting Party (that most likely has Moscow behind it), can't carry a single policy for six years in a row (we would have had Hitachi build us a new Nuclear plant, but nooo) and the populist game is played hard.
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Nov 18, 2014 10:00
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Vaall posted:Internet marxist from D&D making GBS threads up the thread with his angsty gently caress-you-dad rhetoric rather than letting people with actual experiences in these regions of the world share them is calling me sheltered, how adorable. D&D half-breeds are ruining my disgust for a poorly managed political philosophy during a time of great turmoil  The OP is basically asking for story time. Indulge him.
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Nov 18, 2014 22:09
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If your political philosophy isn't set up to deal with times of turmoil then its not worth poo poo, because those are just about the only kind of times we have left
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Nov 18, 2014 23:15
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Another reason for nostalgia in Croatia is that the late 80's were a progressive, optimistic period. You could sense the communism thawing, new bold news media started appearing, music from that period was on par with what the West was producing. Today there is no optimism whatsoever, although the GDP per capita is higher. Educated people are emigrating in droves. Both major parties have proved to be incompetent and corrupt. We have managed to join the EU, and now what? There is nothing to look forward to. I don't know much about economy so here is some random stuff I remember. - We went shopping to Trieste/Italy and Graz/Austria. - Yugoslav sweets weren't very good so it was common to get capitalist chocolate for kids. Milka and Kinder Eggs (chocolate surprise) were popular, and so was Wrigley chewing gum. - A common subject for state-approved jokes was the difference between the fat director and the poor factory worker. However as people pointed out in the thread already, there was much more equality. The fat director would have a big apartment in Zagreb, a house on the coast, an expensive German car (which was probably property of the company), and a secret account in a foreign bank. That was it. He didn't have millions. His salary was maybe only 5x what the worker was making. The worker lived in a small lovely place but his paycheck was certain. The director's and the worker's kids would go to the same school and university and had almost equal chances of succeeding. - The first time I saw a crazy/poor/addicted person in real life was in Paris. - There were two TV programs, with one working only half of the day. They were rather solemn and professional. Presenters were chosen for their diction and understanding of the subject, not looks. Whenever I would see a German or Italian TV show I was struck with how glitzy and idiotic they were. I thought, our program wasn't as rich but at least we didn't have that stupidity. Today we of course have that same kind of entertainment. Doctor Malaver fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 10:48
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My gf lived in Cuba and cant handle talking about her childhood there. Her parents had to go hungry to feed them because they never delivered enough food. And both her parents had good (if they lived in the US) jobs.
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Nov 19, 2014 11:19
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Doctor Malaver posted:Another reason for nostalgia in Croatia is that the late 80's were a progressive, optimistic period. You could sense the communism thawing, new bold news media started appearing, the economy seemed to have a perspective... Music from that period was on par with what the West was producing. Are there any bands from the period you could recommend? It's not like the late 80's were known for great American music. thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 11:34
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RonMexicosPitbull posted:My gf lived in Cuba and cant handle talking about her childhood there. Her parents had to go hungry to feed them because they never delivered enough food. And both her parents had good (if they lived in the US) jobs. Is Cuba still like this? According to what I read people aren't that malnourished there.
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Nov 19, 2014 14:40
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My wife lived in communist Albania, and is old enough to remember a lot of it, I think she was 17 when the civil war happened so theres a lot of craziness that she talks about. Communism was equal parts good and bad. It was good because a lot of people had the same things. Her father was a Major in the military, so she too me there were a lot of times when he would come home late. Sadly, when communism went away, he was unceremoniously thrown out of the military, and I think only makes like 50 dollars a month on retirement. Despite having served for 20+ years. The communism also made it so that there was a lot of demand for things, and really spawned some ingenuity when it came with stuff like creating new food, or making due with what you had. The thing she brings up was when she ate all the sugar, her mom had a guest over, and they had to use a mint to sweeten the coffee (think turkish coffee, small strong espresso like cups.). At the end, they saw the candy and asked if it was poison. Which brings me to my next point. There was a huge "hush hush" about the regime. If you spoke out against it, or anything, you would be taken away and imprisoned or murdered. You had to assume that everyone was a spy because it could be your own family member that turned you in. They were living in a constant state of fear, so any discomfort or disagreement with how the process worked was kept to yourself. You wouldn't even tell your closest friends. She knew a couple of people that got taken away. I've been to Albania and the marks of communism are still present. Lots of bunkers, and the roads are all windy and narrow, as explained to me because it made it so planes couldn't land on it. They are starting to build their first real highway, which isn't full of potholes and it's amazing to be on after being stuck on winding lovely roads. Media was another thing, you had communist channels that you had, and if you were lucky could pick up TV channels from Italy. This is why a lot of Albanians like AC Milan or Inter Milan for football. They were doing good during the time, and Albanian Pro Leagues are kind of poo poo. My wife hadn't seen a cartoon like the Simpsons or Family Guy until about a year ago. She thought they were just for kids. The civil war and Kosovo war hit them pretty hard. There were many times she feared for her life, and was shot at. Communism at least gave them a sense of security, but with the way things are now politically, it's still in shambles. I was watching something on the news a while back when I was there, and because of the lax zoning laws, this guy was having a hotel essentially built around his entire loving property, and encasing him in it. Nothing could be done because most of them are corrupt. People there generally don't miss communism, and embrace the free lifestyle that they have. They love Americans, especially George Bush Jr, who was the first president to actually visit their country. Funfacts: Sexism was a big thing back then. Forced marriages were common as 30 years ago, and she is a product of one. King Zog I was a president/king/whatever and survived assassination attempts a lot. I think there are like 50 or something attempts on his life. One of which he was shot twice, restrained the person, had his security take care of it, and then just sat down at a meeting bleeding from his gunshot wounds like it was nothing. When everyone was looking on in horror, he explained "this kind of thing happens." Battle Virgins was a designation given to women of the family to be given the rights of men. This usually stemmed when a family didn't have a son or they were murdered due to a blood feud (more on that later) and the eldest woman swore an oath of celibacy and was elected as head of household. This let her smoke in public, wear mens clothing, and do everything a man would do. Even her own mother and sisters would treat her as a man, and she could do everything to enforce that. To include ordering hits on families. Blood Feuds are nuts. You could essentially call one for anything. King Zog might have had so many assassination attempts due to his ex-fiance being dumped by him as soon as he was elected. Because he broke it off with her, she was allowed to declare a blood feud against him and his family. I don't think he ever retaliated, but blood feuds would go on and on. Like a guy kills someone's brother. That guy gets sent to jail for 20 years. Gets out, and about a month out he gets murdered due to a hit being called on him. Now the other family retaliates etc. etc. Their language is one of the eldest. It's very hard to learn and understand. At least for me.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:08
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Earwicker posted:If your political philosophy isn't set up to deal with times of turmoil then its not worth poo poo, because those are just about the only kind of times we have left They are the only kind of times we've ever really had.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:20
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More stories about the Soviet Union, might be interesting from a modern western perspective: The school system was not as egalitarian as people like to pretend. Students from rural areas had a smaller chance to get into prestigious universities. It was not an official discrimination policy, but rural schools were just really lovely at education and you had to work so much harder to get a good diploma. If you hosed up your diploma, you could always attend "evening classes" later in life and try to get a degree. And just like community colleges in the US, these degrees were not regarded very highly. Lol, people were not "assigned" jobs, the guys in the gymnastics story were probably talent scouts. There were a lot of these, especially for music and sports. The sooner you start teaching the children, the better the results are. The kids obviously didn't want to go, it's not really that surprising. "Do you want to stay here with your friends and family, or do you want to go to a foreign place and work your rear end off for a small chance at fame and glory in 10 years?" Also, I have no doubt that the recruiters tried to put some pressure on the parents, talking about "doing what is best for your children" and crap like that. Good housing was really hard to get, one of the easiest ways to get a good flat (that's everything post 19th century and not a "Khruchovka") was to get a job at some factory or company that build and maintained their own housing for employees. It was often worth taking a shittier job, because the benefits like housing were so good. Getting a good flat through the normal waiting lists was considered a joke. I'm sure most people were moving down on the list, not up. Flats got assigned to friends and family of who ever was around at the housing office at that day.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:03
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is Cuba still like this? According to what I read people aren't that malnourished there. No, my guess is that story describes the Special Period, which is the name given to the period immediately after the collapse of the Soviet Union. poo poo was really bad, but it's recovered quite a bit. It's still quite poor, but people aren't going hungry any more (at least that I've seen).
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Nov 19, 2014 20:32
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thrakkorzog posted:Are there any bands from the period you could recommend? It's not like the late 80's were known for great American music. I'm not sure of their wider appeal because they sang on local language and the lyrics and the attitude are a huge part of it. My favorite is Disciplina Kicme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsErim6pmwA - in English! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJsFxzoBpE0 - from the "Kako je propao rokenrol" movie. The singer is a super hero "Green Tooth" who fights the evil tram ticket controller and the evil cinema projector operator. Idoli were not as raw and original, but had many catchy tunes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51xG3VNJAA4 - an ironic homage to Russian communist ideals. Part of the lyrics is in Russian. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPh37THvhG0 - "I wear a plastic suit, and plastic is my food. Maybe I'm plastic too. I'm in my skyscraper and I'll open my doors for you so that you become like me. Plastics plastics plastics!" I bet many hipster bands would kill to look like these guys did 33 years ago. Psihomodo Pop - pop-punk influenced by the Ramones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkKXVEUWYxw - "My sweet Ramona" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAScWjeNSGo - "We are the Flying squad... we don't have anything except wings" - late communism, you can see how full the store shelves are. Bijelo Dugme - Balkan rock. These guys were seemingly not influenced by western trends. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qHd7UkRETY - "Tilias are in bloom" very authentic video... these Albanian/Gypsy rhythms break my conception of metrics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XwHk1Tzz9c - "St. George's day" another one in Gypsy style. Both are about lost loves. Get some ex-Yugos drunk and play these two and watch them drop on their knees. Doctor Malaver fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 22:17
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What were ethnic/religious relations like in Yugoslavia? Did churches/mosques operate in any capacity other than as museums?
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Nov 20, 2014 01:22
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icantfindaname posted:What were ethnic/religious relations like in Yugoslavia? That question is worth a hundred PhDs, I don't even know where to start. These days it was the anniversary of the fall of Vukovar and mass executions - Croatia's deepest wound. The media cover many aspects and earlier today I watched a TV program with a guy who was a 10 year old victim of the chetniks. His family was Croat in a mostly Serb village that rebelled. They were imprisoned / tortured / held as slaves for 260 days. This included raping of his sister in front of the family, forcing him to collect and carry corpses of dead Croatian policemen, and local doctors refusing to treat him after he was beaten to the point of death because it could cause trouble to them if they treated an "ustasha". He was 10 and I'm cutting short a much worse story. This may sound like some sort of Croatian anti-Serb propaganda, but the program was hosted by the most trusted TV journalist we have and the victim is involved with peace and charity work and left the impression of a person of enormous strength and capability to forgive. I have no doubts in his story. I wish I did. Why am I telling all this? Because his family's torturers were their neighbours. That's a recurring theme in the wars in Croatia and Bosnia. It's not like the Nazis or the Huns came from a thousand miles away, completely foreign and disinterested in the fates of local people. These were people who lived with them side by side, who worked in the same companies, who attended each other's weddings, whose children played together - for decades. Where did this enormous evil come from? Was it always there, much closer to the surface than people were aware? Or was it a product of Milosevic's hate-mongering media? None of the answers seem good enough. I can't answer your question rationally so I'm inviting you to multiply this victim's story by a thousand while at the same time you keep aware of all the decades that the Yugoslav nations lived in peace and mutual support. icantfindaname posted:Did churches/mosques operate in any capacity other than as museums? They operated normally. You could get the full set of Catholic rites, there was some sort of seminary in my neighbourhood. The importance of religion and faith was downplayed, though, and they were treated as superstition. Religious holidays weren't officially observed and were ignored by media. As a kid I received presents for the New Years Eve, not Christmas. I don't know about other religions (other than Islam, Orthodox Christianity was also a major religion) but I suspect it was the same.
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Nov 20, 2014 02:57
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One important thing to understand is that some countries belanged to the Soviet (like my own Lithuania) Union while others "just" belonged to the Warsaw Pact. Far as I understani, pactees got a lot more leeway to do stuff. People most definitely got assigned jobs. My mom is from a rural town (there was a military unit stationed there, but it's really small), got to study in the biggest or second biggest city, then worked in a factory as an accountant. Stories of theft abound, because everybody did that. My dad got drafted after the university (I think) and got sent to some gently caress off spot in Syberia to command some sort of parabolic antenna or smth. As for religious stuff and buildings: the two biggest churches in Kaunas (second biggest city in Lithuania and my town) got converted into a museum and a radiofactory. Got restored now. Atheism was an important part of soviet doctrine, but people didn't like that too much, and at around 70s-80s the commies started pretending (for the rest of the world) that the USSR had religious freedom. Certainly a more lofty position than in post war years. First underground newspapers were produced by religious folk. Another thing was the introduction of eastern religions and mysticism as a way of drawing people away from Christianity and the west. Oh, and the newspapers were hilarious. Might get to traslate some headlines from some photos I took in university, if anyone's interested.
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Nov 20, 2014 04:47
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JcDent posted:Oh, and the newspapers were hilarious. Might get to traslate some headlines from some photos I took in university, if anyone's interested. Sure, go ahead.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:09
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Doctor Malaver posted:I'm not sure of their wider appeal because they sang on local language and the lyrics and the attitude are a huge part of it. How could you forget Tajči  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psow_WkrytA Well I'm only an Estonian so have nothing to do with Yugoslavia, but I found it on the internet the other day. Unlike the soviet bloc they took part of Eurovision. USSR also conscripted people from all over it's republics to their glorious military. They did away with national units after a Georgian unit rebelled in 1956 and sent Estonians to Mongolia and Chechens to Estonia, though the process was quite random. So an Estonian could end up serving close to home if he was lucky. East Germany wasn't bad either. But USSR was huge... A situation very similar to that of Czarist era Russia, except the service lasted for 2 years instead of 25. Those who could avoided the service at all cost. Dedovschina started in 1960s, I learned this from an article I read a while ago and don't remember the exact causes. But avoiding the service was a drat good idea. However most stories I've heard about soviet army were quite anecdotal. Painting grass green for the pleasure of visiting old generals and such. Well how about some Estonian music from soviet era. The music is still nice to listen to. To me anyway. One such was "Apelsin" (orange - the fruit. Named because oranges made people happy every time they were in stores, which happened to be sometime during christmas), created in 1974. Mostly as a joke band. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV8BTwLPsi0 - Apelsin - Sügistuuled ( "autumn winds" ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36rZ3X58B0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO-e9TQrwzQ - Western https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O4evCzeyEo - Illusioon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tprToPcVno - Shakespeare (yep, a cover) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0rs5vkLsQc - Golden Trio - "who does not work does not eat". Another joke band. Cover of a song by Steve Kekana. Quite a number of songs (in Estonian anyway) were covers of western songs. In the case of some songs, the name of the original author was suppressed and it would be replaced with some name of eastern European origin, so the authorities would allow it. Like the song called "Baby Take Me in Your Arms" by Tony Macaulay and John MacLeod. Over here it was instead supposed to be somebody called L. Komenski. The song in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4cvWGHwU4o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i36nkUdyqA - "Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini" turned into "Beautiful Summer Day". The original theme would never have worked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jze1HJLUp7c - "I can not find my song". This one's original. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FJBhPLposM - "Ghost riders in the sky". Huh. Never knew this one. Some punk and rock from 80s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hkNVXVlBfw - Perestroika by J.M.K.E. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLEu00yuL0k - Massikommunikatsioon (video from 1995, song from I believe 1984) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSzs_JN-4Js glorious mullet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yl1yCtH7Z4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THh6zEzCXZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZivP6NbVdRo .. well I could go on forever.
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Nov 20, 2014 18:07
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JcDent posted:People most definitely got assigned jobs. My mom is from a rural town (there was a military unit stationed there, but it's really small), got to study in the biggest or second biggest city, then worked in a factory as an accountant. We're probably just talking about different things. Assigning jobs in my mind is some Orwellian poo poo like "Boy #21771, you have nice wiry arms, so you are going to be a plumber from now on. Here is your toilet snake, don't lose it. NEXT!". Stuff like that just didn't happen, as far as I know. People were definitely limited in their career choices depending on a lot of circumstances. But that's true for every place on earth. For example, Germany has a completely public university system and the places for medicine students are artificially limited. If you are not in the top of your High School class, you are probably never going to be able to study medicine. If you are thrown out of university because you failed your exams, you are forbidden to study that major for all eternity (or the end of the universe, whatever comes first).
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Nov 22, 2014 14:44
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I spent several days in Moscow back toward the end of the USSR. We went to a hotel restaurant for dinner and the first question the maitre d guy asked is if we were paying in rubles or dollars. We had stacks of rubles to get rid of so we said rubles. He seated us at the most remote table in a nearly empty restaurant and then left us sitting there for a half hour. Finally he came back and I asked him if we would get better food if we paid in dollars. He said, "Better service". So we said we'd pay in dollars. He took us to the best table in the place and service was good, by Soviet standards. Every single interaction with clerks or officialdom was like a grudge match. Our flight back on Polish LOT Airlines was cancelled so we had to go to the Aeroflot office to transfer our tickets. That took the better part of an hour because the staff just didn't want to deal with us. I wanted a passport stamp on leaving but they didn't do that for some reason. They just took the visa slip. I asked the customs guy "Stamp?" and he said under his breath "Five dollars". I was tempted but wasn't sure if this was a case of a guy simply asking for a bribe or a guy asking for a bribe so he could arrest me so I declined. I don't mean to derail the thread as I'm an American who did not live under communism. I've experienced corruption and resentful/corrupt officials/clerks in a number of countries but in the USSR it was everywhere. Cat Hassler fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 04:13
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Keith Atherton posted:I spent several days in Moscow back toward the end of the USSR. By the end of that trip I would have wanted to split Russian heads. I don't know how you handled it.
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Nov 23, 2014 05:57
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Keith Atherton posted:
I traveled around Eastern Europe a lot both before and after the fall of the USSR and goddamn its shocking as an American the casual corruption/bribery that just doesn't happen here. 100 years of oppression creates some hosed up norms.
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Nov 23, 2014 06:37
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Lord Windy posted:By the end of that trip I would have wanted to split Russian heads. I don't know how you handled it. RonMexicosPitbull posted:I traveled around Eastern Europe a lot both before and after the fall of the USSR and goddamn its shocking as an American the casual corruption/bribery that just doesn't happen here. 100 years of oppression creates some hosed up norms. People were desperate for money because their state could no longer provide for them, and there weren't legitimate avenues for them to earn more. Why is the assumption here that an inherent Russian-ness led people to ask for bribes from foreigners, rather than a failed social state?
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Nov 23, 2014 06:54
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:People were desperate for money because their state could no longer provide for them, and there weren't legitimate avenues for them to earn more. I specifically said I thought it was the result of long term hosed up government not like genetics though?
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Nov 23, 2014 06:58
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RonMexicosPitbull posted:I specifically said I thought it was the result of long term hosed up government not like genetics though? That's more intended for the other guy, but I don't think the Soviet Union in 1989 is a good representation of social norms in the communist bloc, especially when you're a visible foreigner.
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Nov 23, 2014 07:33
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:People were desperate for money because their state could no longer provide for them, and there weren't legitimate avenues for them to earn more. My complaint was with the blatant corruption. The waiter was being a poo poo, the staff not doing their jobs and etc.
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Nov 23, 2014 07:58
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Yeah it was a really great experience but I felt like I had a dollar sign floating above my head the whole time. So one night me and my buddy were hanging out in the hotel bar and these two prostitutes came walking by our table, saw our passports, and one said "Oh, Americans. Americans won't pay for love." We ended up going with them (one girl had a car) to a nightclub outside Moscow and paying for everything. On the way back we got pulled over and had to pay a US $50 "fine" when the cops realized there were two American tourists in the back seat. And no we did not use the services of the ladies. But at the nightclub one girl, Marina, refused a pack of Marlboros from the carton we bought in Poland. She knew they weren't from the US and said, "Buy me a real pack of cigarettes" Also one morning we we were riding the elevator down in our hotel (Hotel Belgrad)and an old cleaning woman got on with us. She said "American!" and somehow asked her why she thought so and she showed her teeth and ran a finger across them. We'd both had had orthodontia.[
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Nov 23, 2014 08:31
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Keith Atherton posted:Every single interaction with clerks or officialdom was like a grudge match. It's the same in Russia these days.
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Nov 23, 2014 11:14
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Keith Atherton posted:And no we did not use the services of the ladies. But at the nightclub one girl, Marina, refused a pack of Marlboros from the carton we bought in Poland. She knew they weren't from the US and said, "Buy me a real pack of cigarettes" The lady has a point. I'm a pack a day smoker, and a few years ago I bummed a Camel off of a Polish coworker recently returned from Poland. It was like smoking a cheesegrater for the lungs. For all the complaints about tobacco companies pouring chemicals into their product, it makes sense when you smoke a cigarette where the companies don't give a poo poo.
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Nov 23, 2014 13:59
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thrakkorzog posted:I'm a pack a day smoker, and a few years ago I bummed a Camel off of a Polish coworker recently returned from Poland. It was like smoking a cheesegrater for the lungs. For all the complaints about tobacco companies pouring chemicals into their product, it makes sense when you smoke a cigarette where the companies don't give a poo poo. the companies don't "give a poo poo" here either we just have actual regulations that are enforced. its the same company!
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Nov 23, 2014 15:51
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Soulex, great post. My husband is Albanian and we are here now visiting his parents. Remnants of communism are all around, like giant abandoned factories and army airbases. There's a mountain here where you can still see ENVER carved into the side in giant letters even though they've tried everything including explosives to get rid of it. Hoxha's picture used to hang in every room in this house and when communism broke my husband's sisters took them down and used them for toilet paper.
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Nov 27, 2014 15:45
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I asked me mum. So at least in the Commie Republic of Lithuania (part of USSR proper and not one of the WP posers), you finish your university and you get assigned a place where you have to work for 2 or 3 years. Don't like it? Well tough poo poo, you capitalist sympathizer. In commie theory, this makes sense, because even those places that aren't exactly glamorous need workers. But in commie land, those places tend to be really bad. So me mum got assigned to some podunk of town where she didn't want to go. The good thing for her was that her uncle was the, uh, director (well, the guy who runs the place) of a furniture factory. So he went to the bread factory (it's a little big to be called a bakery) in Kaunas, the second biggest city, and tells the boss there that if he take my mom to work there, he's gonna get some furniture for his office. The bread factory boss, clearly not someone who wanted to be the first among equals on an old squeeky chair, agreed. So my mom stayed in the big city, yay!
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Nov 27, 2014 17:58
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 05:04 |
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Interesting chat with a historian played over/related to the game Papers Please: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wc5Ix0b33s
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Feb 7, 2015 18:02
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